Tragic News at Disney's Grand Floridian

davidvel · Jun 17, 2016

am1 said:
How many pictures are at night?

How many pictures show a toddler being snatched from the edge of the sand by an alligator? During the day or night?

Ty1on · Jun 18, 2016

davidvel said:
Clearly, all of those parents and children should be rounded up and restrained. Lock the parents up for being so neglectful, as multiple Monday morning social media backs have declared that the child' parents are at fault. Send the kids to foster care where they will be safer.

These parents (and even worse parents that allow this at night) are obviously too concerned about their own fun to care about their children, and despite knowing that there are hungry gators all over the pond ready to leap and snatch their kid, don't care, and leave their kids there to be taken.

Sincerely,
Social Media

I like the sarcasm.

The fact is that there is no visible reason they should be restrained, and that is because the public has made the erroneous assumption that Disney is vigilant about removing gators and poisonous snakes from the area. And they are clearly not.

Regarding the comment about pictures like that taken in the evening, just because gators are more active at dusk doesn't mean they are only active at dusk. Knowing what we know now, children shouldn't be in the water at any time. Of course we collectively didn't know that a few days ago, because Disney posted no warnings. And they knew they're there, and can potentially move into that lagoon at any time, because they routinely relocate them.

CCR · Jun 18, 2016

I feel so badly for these parents. What a horrible thing to experience.

We just came home from Disneyworld on June 4th. We stayed at Sabal Palms and Saratoga Springs and no signs were posted at either resort that I noticed. I told my kids when we first arrived at Sabal Palms (we had a ground level room that overlooked a lake and golf course) to watch for any gators while sitting in our screened in back patio. They (including my husband) didn't believe me that alligators could be in the water.

We rode the monorail over to the Polynesian from the Magic Kingdom. The beaches created here are obviously man made and I can see where a family would assume they are safe. I heard Alligators are everywhere but I also would assume Disney would be monitoring and ensuring designated play areas are safe. Chairs, beach toys, movie nights, etc all make you think this is an area to be playing in. Where I'm from "no swimming" means no lifeguard on duty or no submerged swimming due to some other reason (steep drop off, rocks, strong currents). It doesn't mean no touching the water or wading in it.

Just a horrible situation, very sad. I'm sure many things will now change at these resorts to prevent this from ever happening again.

Bunk · Jun 18, 2016

Fences are now being installed:

http://nypost.com/2016/06/17/disney-finally-putting-up-fence-around-gator-infested-lagoon/

VegasBella · Jun 18, 2016

am1 said:
How many pictures are at night?

It was "Movie Night" down there on the beach so there were plenty of kids there at the time it happened. Maybe not many pictures (who takes pix of movie night?) but still there were plenty of kids there.

I'm not saying the parents made the right decision to let their 2-year-old play at the edge of the water. I'm saying it was a common decision that many other parents made too. It was considered "normal."

Just to put things into perspective...

Drowning is a leading cause of death for young children. "From 2005-2014, there were an average of 3,536 fatal unintentional drownings (non-boating related) annually in the United States — about ten deaths per day." "Among those 1-14, fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death behind motor vehicle crashes."

CDC says "Most young children who drowned in pools were last seen in the home, had been out of sight less than five minutes, and were in the care of one or both parents at the time." Were those parents irresponsible? Yeah, probably. Should have had a child-proof fence around the pool and taught the kid to swim, etc. But how many parents have taken their eyes off their young children for a few minutes here and there? MOST parents have. A lapse in judgement is bound to happen every now and then. It's more understandable when the lapse includes something many people think is "normal." Most parents deserve sympathy when tragedy hits, not condemnation.

Citations for drowning info:
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsSafeSwimmingPool/

presley · Jun 18, 2016

I saw pictures of the new signs being posted on the news last night. They have pictures of snakes and alligators and say to stay away from the water and not to feed alligators. I'm glad they are putting up the signs and the fence, but as far as I am concerned, this whole thing was an epic Disney fail. Employees have been saying they weren't allowed to stop guests from feeding alligators because they pay so much to stay there. Now, Disney is training their employees to take it more seriously.

jeffcarp · Jun 18, 2016

This was the first incident of this kind in the 44 year history of Disney World. I have a hard time characterizing that as an "epic fail."

JimMIA · Jun 18, 2016

jeffcarp said:
This was the first incident of this kind in the 44 year history of Disney World. I have a hard time characterizing that as an "epic fail."

It's actually the second, but your point is well-taken. It's certainly a very rare situation to have an actual alligator attack.

There is, however, quite a bit of alligator-human interaction. Alligators are seen daily all over WDW, and they are so common Disney has procedures and employees trained to deal with them. It's not like Disney didn't know they were there.

Signs, legal liability, and questions about parenting aside, this is a horrible tragedy and I'm sure all of our thoughts and prayers are with the family.

rapmarks · Jun 18, 2016

VegasBella said:
It was "Movie Night" down there on the beach so there were plenty of kids there at the time it happened. Maybe not many pictures (who takes pix of movie night?) but still there were plenty of kids there.

I'm not saying the parents made the right decision to let their 2-year-old play at the edge of the water. I'm saying it was a common decision that many other parents made too. It was considered "normal."

Just to put things into perspective...

Drowning is a leading cause of death for young children. "From 2005-2014, there were an average of 3,536 fatal unintentional drownings (non-boating related) annually in the United States — about ten deaths per day." "Among those 1-14, fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death behind motor vehicle crashes."

CDC says "Most young children who drowned in pools were last seen in the home, had been out of sight less than five minutes, and were in the care of one or both parents at the time." Were those parents irresponsible? Yeah, probably. Should have had a child-proof fence around the pool and taught the kid to swim, etc. But how many parents have taken their eyes off their young children for a few minutes here and there? MOST parents have. A lapse in judgement is bound to happen every now and then. It's more understandable when the lapse includes something many people think is "normal." Most parents deserve sympathy when tragedy hits, not condemnation.

Citations for drowning info:
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsSafeSwimmingPool/

you said it so well. When our children were young, we almost bought a beautiful lot in a nice subdivision. What stopped us was next door, right off what would be our deck, the neighbors had a big pool. would you believe several years later, a child who lived next door drowned in that pool . That was bad enough, but the mother of that child had her reputation trashed.

Helios · Jun 18, 2016

littlestar said:
Yep.

When we were at Marriott last month in Orlando, we noticed all the signs about alligators. I wonder when Marriott put in their signage - was it after the snake incident at Lakeshore?

I wonder how this will affect sales?

Quilter · Jun 19, 2016

Disney put in beaches to attract the crowd who want Florida beaches and Fantasy Land. This is the knowledge most commonly understood by guests:

http://goflorida.about.com/od/wheretostay/ss/wdw_resort_beaches.htm

The Grand Floridian touted a beach experience. No swimming but nothing is mentioned about wading/playing/building sand castles on the water's edge.

We visit Marriott's Ocean Point in the winter. That's the season spinner sharks migrate and feed close to shore. Okay, so no swimming or even wading in shin deep water. But sand castles at the water's edge. Who would think to worry?

When the common impressions given by travel advertisers like the above is that the beaches are for playing (picture of mom's leg in the cabana while child plays at the water's edge) why would parents have an understanding of the inherent danger? The resorts should be educating the guests to the nature of the local wildlife.

This incident alone should have been enough to convince Disney to care for their customers enough to diligently inform them of the habits of alligators
http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/i-was-attacked-by-an-alligator-at-disney-world/.

Hosting evening activities on the beach is more than negligent. It goes to the exact opposite of the information they should be giving to guests.

Old Hickory · Jun 20, 2016

Bunk said:
Fences are now being installed:

http://nypost.com/2016/06/17/disney-finally-putting-up-fence-around-gator-infested-lagoon/

Who is the fence for? Us or them?

mtforeman · Jun 27, 2016

"Where I'm from "no swimming" means no lifeguard on duty or no submerged swimming due to some other reason (steep drop off, rocks, strong currents). It doesn't mean no touching the water or wading in it."

This has come up a lot. Where I'm from, no swimming just means not to swim. It doesn't mean you can't put your feet in the water. There are lots of lakes that are "no swimming," but kids put their feet in all the time while others are fishing, etc.

hntngfamly · Jun 27, 2016

mtforeman said:
"Where I'm from "no swimming" means no lifeguard on duty or no submerged swimming due to some other reason (steep drop off, rocks, strong currents). It doesn't mean no touching the water or wading in it."

This has come up a lot. Where I'm from, no swimming just means not to swim. It doesn't mean you can't put your feet in the water. There are lots of lakes that are "no swimming," but kids put their feet in all the time while others are fishing, etc.

Where I'm from, if there was NO lifeguard on duty, there would have been a sign stating "No Lifeguard on duty". "No Swimming" means NO getting in. Period. NOT no swimming, but its ok to actually get in without submerging. But then again, I was raised not try & find a way around the rules. Perhaps one of several reasons we can't have nice things??

Even IF Disney's "No Swimming" signs on a beautiful beach, meant it's ok to wade or go in as long as you don't submerge because there is no life guard, doesn't mean I, my husband or our kids ever WANTED to get in that nasty looking water. Just beyond the shore, there's grassy swamp type weeds. What about that says the water safe or inviting, especially after dark?

klpca · Jun 27, 2016

mtforeman said:
"Where I'm from "no swimming" means no lifeguard on duty or no submerged swimming due to some other reason (steep drop off, rocks, strong currents). It doesn't mean no touching the water or wading in it."

This has come up a lot. Where I'm from, no swimming just means not to swim. It doesn't mean you can't put your feet in the water. There are lots of lakes that are "no swimming," but kids put their feet in all the time while others are fishing, etc.

I agree with this. I have seen no-swimming beaches but getting your feet wet isn't prohibited.

In southern CA most of the beaches have "no lifeguard" signs because most of the year, there aren't any lifeguards. It doesn't mean not to go in, it means that if you get in any trouble, you're on your own to get yourself out.

When there are sewage spills or pollution runoff (usually after a big storm) there are big orange signs that say "keep out of the water". That one is very clear.

So everyone's interpretation of the signage is going to be different. I had no idea that you would be in danger at the edge of a man made lake at a Disney property. I've never been to Florida and while we have dangerous critters here, we don't have alligators, so I could have made the same mistake. I feel so bad for those parents who didn't realize the danger that their little boy was in, and I am sure that they wish that they could go back in time and change things.

joewillie12 · Jun 27, 2016

Old Hickory said:
Who is the fence for? Us or them?

Fences obviously don't stop gators. Check out the you tube link below....crazy
https://youtu.be/7Qp_bUYPrTg

wed100105 · Jun 28, 2016

The more info that comes out regarding this incident, the more likely I would be to find favor with the parents vs Disney. The pictures of kids playing in the water, regardless of the time of day, would be enough for me to favor the parents in this case. If the water wasn't safe, then Disney employees should never have allowed people to be in the water.

MULTIZ321 · Jul 4, 2016

Toddler's Father Says Two Gators Involved in Disney Attack - by Greg Toppo, USA Today/ News/ usatoday.com

"The father of a 2-year-old boy killed in an alligator attack near Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa in Orlando told an official that a second gator was involved in the attack.

The Orlando Sentinel, citing public records released last week, reported late Saturday that Capt. Tom Wellons of the Reedy Creek Fire Department told two supervisors about the revelation — it came during an interaction with the child's father, Matt Graves, the morning after Lane Graves went missing..."

(Photo: Spencer Platt)

Richard

pedro47 · Jul 20, 2016

MULTIZ321 said:
Toddler's Father Says Two Gators Involved in Disney Attack - by Greg Toppo, USA Today/ News/ usatoday.com

"The father of a 2-year-old boy killed in an alligator attack near Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa in Orlando told an official that a second gator was involved in the attack.

The Orlando Sentinel, citing public records released last week, reported late Saturday that Capt. Tom Wellons of the Reedy Creek Fire Department told two supervisors about the revelation — it came during an interaction with the child's father, Matt Graves, the morning after Lane Graves went missing..."

(Photo: Spencer Platt)

Richard

The Washington Post (7/20/2016) is reporting that the parents are not going to sue Disney.

rapmarks · Jul 20, 2016

http://www.naplesnews.com/story/new...nt-sue-disney-over-sons-death-gator/87337438/

MULTIZ321 · Jul 23, 2016

And to piggyback onto Rapmarks post:

Family of 2-Year Old Dragged Away by Alligator Won't Sue Disney Over His Death - by Mahita Gajanan/ U.S./ Florida/ Time/ time.com

""We will solely be focused on the future health of our family"

The parents of the 2-year-old boy who died after being snatched by an alligator at a Disney resort in Orlando in June have decided not to sue Disney over the toddler’s death.

Matt and Melissa Graves issued a statement to KETV, an Omaha, Neb.-based ABC affiliate, on Wednesday, more than a month after an alligator dragged their son Lane into the water by Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa. The Graves said they plan to “keep his spirit alive” by establishing the Lane Thomas Foundation in Lane’s honor.

“In addition to the foundation, we will solely be focused on the future health of our family and will not be pursuing a lawsuit against Disney,” the Graves said...."

Richard

MULTIZ321 · Aug 23, 2016

Father Tried to Free Son's Head From Alligator's Mouth During Disney World Attack - From Associated Press/ News/ The Telegraph/ telegraph.co.uk

"The father of a toddler killed by an alligator at Walt Disney World last June reached into the animal's mouth in an attempt to free his son's head from the reptile's jaw, according to a final report on the death released on Monday by Florida's wildlife agency.

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission report said that the 7-foot alligator bit two-year-old Lane Graves' head as the boy bent down at the edge of a lagoon gathering sand for a sandcastle at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort and that the boy died from a crushing bite and drowning.

Separately, the Orange County Sheriff's Office released its report and ruled the death an accident. One witness, a 16-year-old tourist, said he was walking with his younger siblings on a beach-area walkway when he heard a scream from the lagoon and saw the alligator taking the boy away..."

100813272-lane-graves-NEWS-large_trans++0pH3PG1RG0jTfKqidAZjivlD148UEvjxOSG35Di-GvA.png

Lane Graves was killed by the alligator near Disney World.

Richard

clifffaith · Aug 23, 2016

MULTIZ321 said:
And to piggyback onto Rapmarks post:

Family of 2-Year Old Dragged Away by Alligator Won't Sue Disney Over His Death - by Mahita Gajanan/ U.S./ Florida/ Time/ time.com

""We will solely be focused on the future health of our family"

The parents of the 2-year-old boy who died after being snatched by an alligator at a Disney resort in Orlando in June have decided not to sue Disney over the toddler’s death.

Matt and Melissa Graves issued a statement to KETV, an Omaha, Neb.-based ABC affiliate, on Wednesday, more than a month after an alligator dragged their son Lane into the water by Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa. The Graves said they plan to “keep his spirit alive” by establishing the Lane Thomas Foundation in Lane’s honor.

“In addition to the foundation, we will solely be focused on the future health of our family and will not be pursuing a lawsuit against Disney,” the Graves said...."

Richard

I hope they are not pursuing a lawsuit against Disney because Disney said "here, let us write you a $$$$$$$$$$$ check for your foundation."

rfc0001 · Aug 23, 2016

clifffaith said:
I hope they are not pursuing a lawsuit against Disney because Disney said "here, let us write you a $$$$$$$$$$$ check for your foundation."

Disney absolutely offered a settlement in exchange for an agreement not to sue or talk to the press. It would be a dereliction of their corporate responsibility not to. At least the family is putting it to a good cause :thumbsup2:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pacman777 · Aug 23, 2016

clifffaith said:
I hope they are not pursuing a lawsuit against Disney because Disney said "here, let us write you a $$$$$$$$$$$ check for your foundation."

What do y'all think? Over or under $100 million for the settlement? We'll probably never know as I'm sure non disclosure was a stipulation of the settlement. I'm sure Disney opened up their checkbook to avoid a long drawn out trial that would've gone against them in the end anyways

Tragic News at Disney's Grand Floridian

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Ty1on

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Bunk

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