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Why is "cost" typically only associated with MF's? What about the money spent to buy?

tlwmkw

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Bottom line on all this is can you afford it? If so then the timesheets and amortization and lost opportunity costs aren't really that important. You bought this for vacation use which means to relax and have fun. As long as you have the money to cover it and use it that way then the rest is not important. Good for you for being so careful with your money and planning for the future. I wish there were more people (young and old) who did that too- we wouldn't have all the current economic problems if that were the case.

tlwmkw
 

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I agree with this.. :) For us personally it was about having nice vacations.. we are also spoiled by corporate travel in high end hotels and did not want to feel like we are "slumming it" when it comes to vacation. The extra space for our daughter and future baby was a huge plus...

For us it was about priorities in life... purchased our home.. check... living within our means (no credit card debt).. check.. retirement investments... check... dd's college fund setup.. check... so timeshare purchase price is considered sunk cost for nice vacations in the future.. $950 in MF a year for a week in a 2 bedroom is great! I feel very fortunate to have found TUG prior to our purchases with the great advice on here so our initial sunk cost is low.. :cheer:

Bottom line on all this is can you afford it? If so then the timesheets and amortization and lost opportunity costs aren't really that important. You bought this for vacation use which means to relax and have fun. As long as you have the money to cover it and use it that way then the rest is not important. Good for you for being so careful with your money and planning for the future. I wish there were more people (young and old) who did that too- we wouldn't have all the current economic problems if that were the case.

tlwmkw
 

davewasbaloo

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One thing I wish though is that our resort had more 2nd hand to buy at the time we bought ours. Sadly now we can buy 2 weeks for what we still own on our developer week. Tuggers warned me at the time, but at the time there were no gold weeks available on the 2nd hand market and the Spanish resale ones were only about 20% less than we paid. Thinking trading for points (which we have yet to do) for 20% felt worth it.

That now makes me feel a little ill. But still, that aside, even paying what we did resale and enjoying 7 vacations at our resort for less than the cost of nearby hotels is still worth it. Add the acs and the getaways before the kids went to school, and it is great!
 

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One thing I wish though is that our resort had more 2nd hand to buy at the time we bought ours. Sadly now we can buy 2 weeks for what we still own on our developer week. Tuggers warned me at the time, but at the time there were no gold weeks available on the 2nd hand market and the Spanish resale ones were only about 20% less than we paid. Thinking trading for points (which we have yet to do) for 20% felt worth it.

That now makes me feel a little ill. But still, that aside, even paying what we did resale and enjoying 7 vacations at our resort for less than the cost of nearby hotels is still worth it. Add the acs and the getaways before the kids went to school, and it is great!

That's my point, and you're a perfect example. You bought developer for, what? $15k? $20k? You've gone on 7 vacations. Now add in the MF's on an annual basis...

That puts your cost, assuming you paid $15k with $1k MFs, to $3142.86 per year. Would a hotel really have cost that much? Sure, for a huge luxury 2-br suite, but for something you could manage and fit in and feel "ok" in for a week? $3k? I'm not so sure I agree with that. Plus food because we all know trying to cook in anything other than a galley kitchen or bigger is a joke, especially for families, I'd imagine.

Thanks all, for reassuring that I was right about TUG and its members. I'm not sure where those replies came from earlier though. I may have taken them a bit too personal, but they were completely off topic and had nothing to do with my original question. I hope you all can understand my frustration.

Jeremy
 

thinze3

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Forced luxury vacations & great family memories.

This is the part of the equation that is very difficult to value. Quite possibly the end result will be priceless.

So many timeshare owners admit that they probably wouldn't have taken that trip to Hawaii and stayed in a luxury ocean side condo if it weren't for their vacation ownership. Whether it's in Ft Lauderdale, Orlando, Newport, or Hilton Head, with a Marriott ownership you will always be staying in a very upscale place - not some cramped Courtyard Hotel.

Because the fees come every year, you will be going on vacation at the minimum of every other year and many times to a place you haven't been before.

My family has enjoyed numerous quality vacations in 2BR Marriott timeshares, and we have created memories that will last for lifetimes.
Yes, my original EOY resale purchase at Waiohai is now worth 40% of what I paid, but my family has been to Hawaii now 3 times and stayed at 4 different resorts. (We're going back in 2013.) The memories created there have been to many to count. EXAMPLE: A young man and his brother from Australia that my DD met at KoOlina two years ago recently flew in to Houston to see her and go out on the town with her and her friends. Talk about memories.
Yes, my original EOY developer purchase of Legends Edge is now worth 25% of what I paid for it, but I used the MR points earned from it to take a priceless second honeymoon of a lifetime which had a "sticker price" of nearly double than the original cash outlay.

SO ... although the upfront cost is a very big consideration, I simply consider it a payment in advance for the right, and commitment, to make priceless family memories.

:D
 

ampaholic

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First off, thanks so much to the people who shared their very personal details. That means a lot to me and has helped me develop a plan of attack for valuing our timeshare. While I had similar ideas, I just wasn't quite sure how to put them on "paper."

Interesting replies, to say the least. Now, let me clear a few things up...

1) We already BOUGHT our STT 2-br Gold week so the whole "don't buy with your girlfriend" thing is out the window.

2) While a lot of you think we're young and naive (which is very clear from some replies) well my response to you is...you're old and naive. No hard feelings, but keep your judgments to yourselves, if you will. I'd explain myself further but quite frankly, while I do value everyone's opinion, I shouldn't have to explain our relationship to anyone. Nor should I have to explain our decisions to anyone, especially financial ones. Again, no hard feelings, but it seems like some of you have veered WAY off course from what my original posed question was. Keep thinking that we'll break up and have to "untie the knots" and all of that. It ain't happenin'. On this issue--I'll stop here.

3) What's with the negativity? This is the first post where I've seen so much of it. Talking about buyers remorse and the like? Really? This thread has NOTHING to do with buyers remorse. It was a plain and simple, face value question. Which, by a couple replies, seems like some of you are in denial. I'm a factual person, period. "It is what it is," is my motto. I HAVE to calculate in every single penny spent (well, maybe not at the penny-level, but you get my point) otherwise I'd just be lying to myself. Wake up and smell the roses...You spent what you spent and if you don't consider every dollar, you're in denial. That's my opinion and I think, after what I've read, I deserve to voice it.

I know those "points" above may be a bit harsh or smart-assy, but they're the truth. Perhaps my impression of the community here was completely wrong. However, I hope that's not the case.

I would hope you come to realize that once you start a thread and send it tottering out into the world it is no longer completely yours - as soon as others start adding to it it becomes a collaborative effort and may not take the exact direction you planned for it.

In other words - if you don't want to hear others opinions - don't ask ... :p

The greatest value of owning a timeshare is intangible - it forces you to drop your workaholic schedule and take a vacation.
 
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GregT

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I couldn't agree more.. sorry this is off topic.. but this is the reason why we vacation.. :D

5948673353_cde498b99f.jpg

ScubaKat,

That's a GREAT picture -- I love it because I have almost the identical one from Hawaii, with me and my three kids -- a totally spontaneous picture that my wife snapped.

I agree completely with Terry, I'm one of those people who never took vacations and now owning a timeshare has "forced" me to schedule it and take it. Timeshares have made a major positive contribution to my life that has a significant intangible value.

Best,

Greg
 
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davewasbaloo

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That's my point, and you're a perfect example. You bought developer for, what? $15k? $20k? You've gone on 7 vacations. Now add in the MF's on an annual basis...

That puts your cost, assuming you paid $15k with $1k MFs, to $3142.86 per year. Would a hotel really have cost that much? Sure, for a huge luxury 2-br suite, but for something you could manage and fit in and feel "ok" in for a week? $3k? I'm not so sure I agree with that. Plus food because we all know trying to cook in anything other than a galley kitchen or bigger is a joke, especially for families, I'd imagine.

Thanks all, for reassuring that I was right about TUG and its members. I'm not sure where those replies came from earlier though. I may have taken them a bit too personal, but they were completely off topic and had nothing to do with my original question. I hope you all can understand my frustration.

Jeremy

To be fair Jeremy, it does save us huge amounts of money still. I work away and have lived in hotels for 15 years, so staying in a budget hotel does not feel like a vacation. Disneyland Paris is 3 miles from our villa. To stay in one of their hotels is $3000 for four people for a week. The Villa is not that much smaller than our house in the UK and the Kitchen is a full kitchen, so we do cook some meals. Also having a laundry room means we can pack light or go home with clean clothes saving us time when we get home.

We live in Europe where the cost of living is higher. The Holiday Inn I was in this week was $200 for room only, breakfast would have been $30 extra. So I think that the value is very good at MVCI.

On our trip to Germany earlier this year, the Hotel Colloseo at Europa Park was $450 a night.
 

m61376

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With all the points discussions wrt the DC, there hasn't been one of these discussions for awhile. First of all, the OP can look forward to a lifetime of wonderful vacations and, while I wouldn't recommend buying something jointly while in a relationship that doesn't have a legal commitment, I applaud him for his sense of family and, at 22, recognizing the benefits derived from such travel with family and/or friends.

Although we didn't discover timesharing until a few years ago, when my kids were a little bit older than you, I can tell you that for many years we traveled as three generations, so when I calculated my costs I looked at the cost of at least 2 hotel rooms. As for MF's, for me they are about a wash in savings while away. When you figure in the cost of breakfast out (and the annoyance of starting off the day that way rather than the ease of breakfast on the balcony), snacks/drinks by the pool or beach and the cost of not eating out for the 2 nights that we generally like to grill, it pretty much balances out the annual MF's if you have 5 people or so to factor in. So personally my break even point is how many years of renting it would take to offset my (thankfully) resale purchases.

There are a few other considerations- owning means I don't have to look for rentals or have the insecurity of renting from a stranger or the cost of booking through Marriott, etc.. More importantly, if you own it, you'll use it- I don't think about whether I want to spend X$$'s on a trip or on something else. I love the fact that it forces us to take a break.

Another perk of ownership- access to Getaways. Ownership is more than the dollars and cents though; it is about quality time spent with those you love. Let me share a poignantly personal story: four years ago my parents celebrated their 60th Ann.. In anticipation of that wonderful event, we had booked a trip the beginning of January, when my daughter would be on intersession and be able to go. Their anniversary was the day before Thanksgiving. Anyway, because of the availability of Getaways, we decided to take my parents to Cancun for a week in mid November, just the four of us, as a pre-anniversary celebration. I picked up a great Getaway at the Royal Sands and, quite honestly, if not for that we probably wouldn't have done it, since we were still saddled down with tuition, etc.. We had a wonderful week, enjoying each other, the beach, dinners, shopping for my Mom and the ruins for my Dad, with memories we will forever cherish. Shockingly, we lost my Dad a month later, so that impromptu vacation turned out to be more memorable than we anticipated.

Because of the intangible aspects of ownership, the money spent although substantial is insignificant- the memories are truly priceless. You may not be able to put a dollar and cents figure on it, but it certainly does tip the scales.


Looks like those intangible aspects are enough justification for ownership for a lot of us!!
 
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davewasbaloo

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In fact, our week in the Netherlands earlier this month, we staying in a Holiday Inn and then a cottage at Efteling. The accommodation was $2000. If we wanted accommodation to sleep 6, it would have been $4000, for 2 rooms.

MVCI offers more than that for less.
 

GregT

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With all the points discussions wrt the DC, there hasn't been one of these discussions for awhile. First of all, the OP can look forward to a lifetime of wonderful vacations and, while I wouldn't recommend buying something jointly while in a relationship that doesn't have a legal commitment, I applaud him for his sense of family and, at 22, recognizing the benefits derived from such travel with family and/or friends.

Although we didn't discover timesharing until a few years ago, when my kids were a little bit older than you, I can tell you that for many years we traveled as three generations, so when I calculated my costs I looked at the cost of at least 2 hotel rooms. As for MF's, for me they are about a wash in savings while away. When you figure in the cost of breakfast out (and the annoyance of starting off the day that way rather than the ease of breakfast on the balcony), snacks/drinks by the pool or beach and the cost of not eating out for the 2 nights that we generally like to grill, it pretty much balances out the annual MF's if you have 5 people or so to factor in. So personally my break even point is how many years of renting it would take to offset my (thankfully) resale purchases.

There are a few other considerations- owning means I don't have to look for rentals or have the insecurity of renting from a stranger or the cost of booking through Marriott, etc.. More importantly, if you own it, you'll use it- I don't think about whether I want to spend X$$'s on a trip or on something else. I love the fact that it forces us to take a break.

Another perk of ownership- access to Getaways. Ownership is more than the dollars and cents though; it is about quality time spent with those you love. Let me share a poignantly personal story: four years ago my parents celebrated their 60th Ann.. In anticipation of that wonderful event, we had booked a trip the beginning of January, when my daughter would be on intersession and be able to go. Their anniversary was the day before Thanksgiving. Anyway, because of the availability of Getaways, we decided to take my parents to Cancun for a week in mid November, just the four of us, as a pre-anniversary celebration. I picked up a great Getaway at the Royal Sands and, quite honestly, if not for that we probably wouldn't have done it, since we were still saddled down with tuition, etc.. We had a wonderful week, enjoying each other, the beach, dinners, shopping for my Mom and the ruins for my Dad, with memories we will forever cherish. Shockingly, we lost my Dad a month later, so that impromptu vacation turned out to be more memorable than we anticipated.

Because of the intangible aspects of ownership, the money spent although substantial is insignificant- the memories are truly priceless. You may not be able to put a dollar and cents figure on it, but it certainly does tip the scales.

Marilyn,

These are excellent points -- and thank you for sharing the story about your Dad, that is very poignant and I'm very glad for your family that you had that opportunity.

Best,

Greg
 

m61376

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Marilyn,

These are excellent points -- and thank you for sharing the story about your Dad, that is very poignant and I'm very glad for your family that you had that opportunity.

Best,

Greg

Thanks Greg.

I fear I sound like a salesperson when I say this, but I think when people debate whether or not ownership makes financial sense, they also need to look at the human perspective. Everything can't fit into an Excel spreadsheet.

Sadly, I still remember my daughter teasingly sulking that we were taking a pre-anniversary celebration without her. I know with absolute certainty that if we didn't own I would have only planned the family celebration over her intersession. I would not have made a second trip less than two months before with our other expenses at the time (and anyone with kids in college or grad schools can appreciate those expenses!). Sadly, certain moments in life you can't get back :(

Ironically, we probably landed up buying in the first place because my Dad fell in love with Ko'olina when we won a week's stay at a fundraising auction at my daughter's law school. And he was the one who saw that there was a resale market in the local papers at the time. I found Tug, and the rest is history. But he was the pushing force to us buying. Not surprisingly, he was all about family, so this discussion really does come full circle.:eek:
 

klpca

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That's my point, and you're a perfect example. You bought developer for, what? $15k? $20k? You've gone on 7 vacations. Now add in the MF's on an annual basis...

That puts your cost, assuming you paid $15k with $1k MFs, to $3142.86 per year. Would a hotel really have cost that much? Sure, for a huge luxury 2-br suite, but for something you could manage and fit in and feel "ok" in for a week? $3k? I'm not so sure I agree with that. Plus food because we all know trying to cook in anything other than a galley kitchen or bigger is a joke, especially for families, I'd imagine.

Thanks all, for reassuring that I was right about TUG and its members. I'm not sure where those replies came from earlier though. I may have taken them a bit too personal, but they were completely off topic and had nothing to do with my original question. I hope you all can understand my frustration.

Jeremy

Europe is a lot more expensive for upscale accommodations than the US. For a 2 bedroom villa, you probably *would* spend 3k per year.

Anyway, people are free to spend their own money how ever they wish.
 

stthomaslovers

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To be fair Jeremy, it does save us huge amounts of money still. I work away and have lived in hotels for 15 years, so staying in a budget hotel does not feel like a vacation. Disneyland Paris is 3 miles from our villa. To stay in one of their hotels is $3000 for four people for a week. The Villa is not that much smaller than our house in the UK and the Kitchen is a full kitchen, so we do cook some meals. Also having a laundry room means we can pack light or go home with clean clothes saving us time when we get home.

We live in Europe where the cost of living is higher. The Holiday Inn I was in this week was $200 for room only, breakfast would have been $30 extra. So I think that the value is very good at MVCI.

On our trip to Germany earlier this year, the Hotel Colloseo at Europa Park was $450 a night.

Yeah, I suppose. Then again, time is the key here. The longer you own, the less your average yearly costs are. I understand your point, for sure. That's the same logic I'm going on. However, we're in the beginning of ownership so our "average yearly costs" are quite high.
 

stthomaslovers

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Europe is a lot more expensive for upscale accommodations than the US. For a 2 bedroom villa, you probably *would* spend 3k per year.

Anyway, people are free to spend their own money how ever they wish.

I NEVER disputed that. I, actually, am a firm believer in that statement. However, this thread was not intended to debate how or why people spend their money how they do. It was simply a question as to why people normally associate MF's with the "cost" of timesharing and don't include their initial purchase costs, memberships fees, etc.
 

davewasbaloo

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Yeah, I suppose. Then again, time is the key here. The longer you own, the less your average yearly costs are. I understand your point, for sure. That's the same logic I'm going on. However, we're in the beginning of ownership so our "average yearly costs" are quite high.

absolutely, though our deed is for 75 years (well 70 now) If we worked the purchase price out over that time, then it is only really about the MFs.

My mood has changed about where I want to travel though, and now that our children have started school, it is hard to trade in europe to where we want to go. So I have a few regrets. But every vacation we have had (btw, we have had 4 other MVCI vacations - discounted or bonus ACs, which brings the cost of those 7 down over the last 5 years) has been of excellent quality. And we are spoilled, we all moan when we have to share a hotel room when we go elsewhere.

I hardly see my wife in the week, so the privacy on vacation is welcome, and our youngest snores, so my son prefers not sharing a room with her. MVCI facilitates all that and more.
 

davewasbaloo

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I NEVER disputed that. I, actually, am a firm believer in that statement. However, this thread was not intended to debate how or why people spend their money how they do. It was simply a question as to why people normally associate MF's with the "cost" of timesharing and don't include their initial purchase costs, memberships fees, etc.

Welcome to the internet, a place people seem to love to go to argue :hysterical:

But I think the purchase price is often disregarded because they paid peanuts to begin with or becuase they have a long deed. MFs matter most because these are the prices that change.
 

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First off, thanks so much to the people who shared their very personal details. That means a lot to me and has helped me develop a plan of attack for valuing our timeshare. While I had similar ideas, I just wasn't quite sure how to put them on "paper."

Interesting replies, to say the least. Now, let me clear a few things up...

1) We already BOUGHT our STT 2-br Gold week so the whole "don't buy with your girlfriend" thing is out the window.

2) While a lot of you think we're young and naive (which is very clear from some replies) well my response to you is...you're old and naive. No hard feelings, but keep your judgments to yourselves, if you will. I'd explain myself further but quite frankly, while I do value everyone's opinion, I shouldn't have to explain our relationship to anyone. Nor should I have to explain our decisions to anyone, especially financial ones. Again, no hard feelings, but it seems like some of you have veered WAY off course from what my original posed question was. Keep thinking that we'll break up and have to "untie the knots" and all of that. It ain't happenin'. On this issue--I'll stop here.

3) What's with the negativity? This is the first post where I've seen so much of it. Talking about buyers remorse and the like? Really? This thread has NOTHING to do with buyers remorse. It was a plain and simple, face value question. Which, by a couple replies, seems like some of you are in denial. I'm a factual person, period. "It is what it is," is my motto. I HAVE to calculate in every single penny spent (well, maybe not at the penny-level, but you get my point) otherwise I'd just be lying to myself. Wake up and smell the roses...You spent what you spent and if you don't consider every dollar, you're in denial. That's my opinion and I think, after what I've read, I deserve to voice it.

I know those "points" above may be a bit harsh or smart-assy, but they're the truth. Perhaps my impression of the community here was completely wrong. However, I hope that's not the case.

If a start a discussion about how to get the best deal on a Marriott Waiohai because I want to buy it to visit every 5 years, and use as a trader the other 4 years, my question is how to get the best deal, but for my own good a lot of well-intentioned people would rightly advise me against buying this particular unit and probably suggest some alternatives to use as a trader.

You really can't expect, nor do you want, people to limit their responses to the original question because they might know something you don't, but sticking to the original question would prevent them from sharing this with you. Probably a good tactic would be to have said you had already purchased it with your girlfriend and were past any rescind date, then you probably wouldn't have received the very good legal and monetary advice about not buying property with a friend/girlfriend/significant other that you are not in a legally binding relationship with.

Some people, myself included, count every single penny spent and compare it to alternatives. Some people don't, either because they don't need to, or because they figure it is a sunk cost and there is not a reason to stress about it now. If you pay $45K for a week, then realize you can buy it on Ebay for $10K, you can either obsess over this fact, or enjoy great vacations for the next 30 years. Either way the $35K is lost, however only one of these provides happiness.
 

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As a financial planner I'm certainly the analytical type. Yes, the purchase price get's figured in. From a practical standpoint, though, with age come wisdom... or ignorance, who knows. But once people have decided to go the timeshare route, some love it. It does become a lifestyle choice. And then, some regret it and come to hate it. It's an albatrose around their neck and they can't wait to get rid of it.

I guess what I'm saying is that once you land on the "happy I chose the timeshare" route, you become much less analytical about each subsequent purchase decision. To some extent you don't have to, because the issues become ingrained in your head and you can figure out what's a good deal or not, without having to put every dollar down on a spreadsheet to figure it out.

Add to that the next to nothing cost to buy resale, and it just doesn't require that much analysis. Somtimes, as Ron's situation points out, you're actually being paid to take over a timeshare.
 
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You really can't expect, nor do you want, people to limit their responses to the original question because they might know something you don't, but sticking to the original question would prevent them from sharing this with you. Probably a good tactic would be to have said you had already purchased it with your girlfriend and were past any rescind date, then you probably wouldn't have received the very good legal and monetary advice about not buying property with a friend/girlfriend/significant other that you are not in a legally binding relationship with.
But why do I have to explain any part of my personal situation? The question posed had nothing to do with me personally so I'm not sure why anyone had to go there in the first place. Why do I have to state I've already bought? Why do people assume I haven't bought yet? Now you're reaching...
 

sstug

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But I think the purchase price is often disregarded because they paid peanuts to begin with or becuase they have a long deed. MFs matter most because these are the prices that change.

Or sometimes we paid too much buying from the developer and don't want to admit it! At times there is a bit of a judgement passed if someone admits they did not buy resale.

I know I overpaid when I bought mine - I didn't know about TUG at the time. But I have no regrets. I had the disposible income at the time (really could use that money now though!!) and I don't count purchase price because it was a frivolous purchase. Sort of like all those shoes I've bought over the years that sit in my closet because they are uncomfortable.

Even if I paid too much, I bought timeshares because I also traveled quite a bit for work and got a taste for 5 star hotels. Having a spacious condo instead of a cramped hotel is very appealing to me. Also, being single it provided me with the option to vacation solo without having to eat alone in resturants for every meal; or the option to travel with friends (or acquaintances since they can have a separate bedroom and bath). Since I am happy with the timeshares and all the vacations I've taken I have I don't think about the money already spent. But I do pay attention to my (rising) maintenance fees.

I guess we all have different ways of determining value. For me, the money is only a part of the value. My enjoyments is much more valuable to me.
 
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