Deflationgate part II

"Roger" · May 6, 2015

The final report on the investigation into the deflated footballs during the AFC championship game is out and ...

Yahoo story on the report

"Based on the evidence developed in connection with the investigation and summarized in this Report, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the NFL Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate attempt to circumvent those rules,"

davidvel · May 6, 2015

"Roger" said:
The final report on the investigation into the deflated footballs during the AFC championship game is out and ...

Yahoo story on the report

"Based on the evidence developed in connection with the investigation and summarized in this Report, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the NFL Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate attempt to circumvent those rules,"

Better not let Sue see this!

davidvel · May 6, 2015

The "conclusion" is less damning than the facts themselves:

In the weeks and months before the AFC Championship Game, McNally
periodically exchanged text messages with the Patriots equipment assistant
primarily responsible for the preparation of the Patriots game balls, John
Jastremski. In a number of those text messages, McNally and Jastremski
discussed the air pressure of Patriots game balls, Tom Brady‟s unhappiness with the inflation level of Patriots game balls, Jastremski‟s plan to provide McNally with a “needle” for use by McNally, and McNally‟s requests for “cash” and sneakers together with the “needle” to be provided by Jastremski. A sports ball inflation needle is a device that can be used to inflate a football (if attached to an air pump) or release air from a football (if inserted alone into a ball).

Seems these ball guys got a lot of pressure from Tom.

SueDonJ · May 6, 2015

davidvel said:
Better not let Sue see this!

Okay by me! Football's not my game and the Patriots aren't my team. They cheat.

(Probably most teams do, but the Pats aren't smart enough to do it without getting caught.)

I do love the Laurel and Hardy routine in the equipment guys text messages, spent the afternoon laughing while listening to the radio guys act them out. "Dude! F-N Tom!"

pedro47 · May 6, 2015

I smell something brewing in the air and it is not coffee or tea..

Passepartout · May 6, 2015

Casually listening to NPR earlier today, they said (iirc) that the Patriots could be fined as much as $500 million or bench Brady for up to 6 games. The announcer said there was no chance they'll keep him from playing for 6 games.

We'll see.

Jim

DaveNV · May 6, 2015

How about they take back the Superbowl Championship they cheated to get? How about they fine the heck out of them? How about they force Brady AND the Coaches to resign in shame without a dime of pension money? How about they make the entire team sit out a season or two? But to be more realistic: How about I just accept that they won't do much of anything, so the practice continues?

I'm not a Cheattriot fan. Never have been, never will be.

But that's just me.

Dave

Kal · May 6, 2015

What if they promise to try not to do very much evil again?

Oh, and give up their status in the Super Bowl outcome and deem the opponent as the winner! :ignore:

Clemson Fan · May 7, 2015

Overall, I actually like Brady and the Patriots although I'm still very sore about the SB and my Seahwaks giving them that win.

That being said, I actually don't think the biggest advantage they received from the deflated balls is being talked about. That advantage is their stunning lack of fumbles since 2006 when the QB's and teams were given more control over the inflation levels of the balls.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.co...iots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

It makes sense that a deflated ball is much easier to hold onto making it a lot less likely for you to fumble it. I firmly believe that they've been deflating balls since 2006 and Belichick new about and approved it. That has given them a HUGE advantage of being almost fumble proof since 2006.

ace2000 · May 7, 2015

I'm sure the balls were tested and re-tested for the Super Bowl, and Brady and the Patriots won anyway. That being said, this will stain his career forever and deservedly so.

The timing of the announcement was interesting - the month of May right after the NFL draft. I think they're going to gauge the public's reaction and then act accordingly on the punishment phase. I'm willing to bet they had all the information they needed within one week of the incident.

Timeshare Von · May 7, 2015

It this any different than using a corked bat in baseball or an illegal golf ball?

I have never liked NE and really dislike Bill Belichick. Perhaps "he" didn't know it was going on, but I believe he's a cheater and when the leader/coach cheats it creates and atmosphere that "cheating is OK" . . . so I still hold him responsible.

I found the most damning evidence presented was the fact that Indianapolis forewarned the NFL prior to their game saying it was "well known around the league" that Brady like smaller balls. (Insert joke here!)

Then they got an interception and the ball was infact underinflated, as noted when the defensive player kept the ball for his mantle.

I don't know how this was allowed to continue. Something should have been done long before the Super Bowl.

joewillie12 · May 7, 2015

Tom Brady meet Pete Rose......but of course that will never happen. The Pats will be penalized 5 yards on their opening kickoff next year and Kraft will pinky promise to his buddy Goodell never to cheat again.

Clemson Fan · May 7, 2015

ace2000 said:
I'm sure the balls were tested and re-tested for the Super Bowl, and Brady and the Patriots won anyway.

I agree and I never said anything to the contrary.

The SB was all about injuries finally catching up with the Seahawks and that awful final play call on the 1 yard line. The injuries were just ridiculous. Earl Thomas played with a torn rotator cuff that he suffered in the NFC Championship game and required surgery right after the SB. Kam Chancellor played with a torn MCL that he torn in the last practice on the Friday before the SB. Richard Sherman couldn't bend his left arm. Jeremy Lane fractured his forearm AND blew out his ACL on the same play when he intercepted Brady (that will go down as the best interception Brady has thrown in his career because it really helped out NE) in the 1st quarter. Brady just picked on his replacement, Tharold Simon, the rest of the game and Simon wasn't up to the task. Then Clif Avril, who was getting the most pressure on Brady during the game, went out early in the 4th quarter with a concussion.

ace2000 · May 7, 2015

Clemson Fan said:
I agree and I never said anything to the contrary.

Sorry Clemson - I wasn't referring to your post when I mentioned that. I was just making the point that they didn't need to cheat like that in order to win. It was totally unnecessary and now they got burned.

Did the NFL play it right by waiting this long to release the news? I think they probably did (from their perspective) but it's a little frustrating to me.

SueDonJ · May 7, 2015

ace2000 said:
... Did the NFL play it right by waiting this long to release the news? I think they probably did (from their perspective) but it's a little frustrating to me.

The report is hundreds of pages, obviously it took a long time to investigate and put it together. If the NFL held onto the completed report for an unreasonable time or were able to somehow delay its release by the independent commission after it was completed, then they didn't do right IMO. But I haven't seen anything that says the NFL hindered the investigation or the report's release??

SueDonJ · May 7, 2015

Clemson Fan said:
Overall, I actually like Brady and the Patriots although I'm still very sore about the SB and my Seahwaks giving them that win.

That being said, I actually don't think the biggest advantage they received from the deflated balls is being talked about. That advantage is their stunning lack of fumbles since 2006 when the QB's and teams were given more control over the inflation levels of the balls.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.co...iots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

It makes sense that a deflated ball is much easier to hold onto making it a lot less likely for you to fumble it. I firmly believe that they've been deflating balls since 2006 and Belichick new about and approved it. That has given them a HUGE advantage of being almost fumble proof since 2006.

This. What they were doing gave them an obvious advantage for years.

ace2000 · May 7, 2015

SueDonJ said:
The report is hundreds of pages, obviously it took a long time to investigate and put it together. If the NFL held onto the completed report for an unreasonable time or were able to somehow delay its release by the independent commission after it was completed, then they didn't do right IMO. But I haven't seen anything that says the NFL hindered the investigation or the report's release??

Fair point. But did they really need a huge investigation to discover what happened? In my mind, it'd be like discovering Derek Jeter used a corked bat in the playoffs, and then instead of punishing him right away and possibly ruining the enjoyment of the World Series for many, they decide to order full-fledged investigation to delay the punishment phase. And why are they waiting to disclose the punishment at this point? What's the deal with that? By waiting until after the draft, they have taken that option off the table - at least for this year.

In the grand scale of things, I don't think this is a huge conspiracy though. Just wondering...

"Roger" · May 7, 2015

A follow up article ...

Ten things hidden in the report

The one thing that surprises me is how little attention has been paid to the fact the Colts appeared to have been well aware that the deflation of balls had been going on prior to the title game. Apparently the Colts general manager sent the following email to the NFL the day prior to the game ...

"As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after the Patriots gameballs are checked by the officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the patriots will let out some air with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better, it would be great if someone would be able to check the air in the game balls as the game goes on so that they don‟t get an illegal advantage,"

Despite the warning, the officials did nothing until forced to (despite being alarmed that the balls disappeared for a while prior to the game).

For those who think that the score was so lopsided that the underinflated balls played no part, the Patriots played a lot of close games during the season. The deflated balls might have made a difference in a number of those games. We will never know.

Personally, I don't think that anything will come of the report except perhaps a mild slap on the wrist (and maybe not even that). In the end, Patriot fans will rally around Brady and their team (the letters to the Boston Globe are informative) and others beyond New England will be disappointed that this happened but life will go on.

hypnotiq · May 7, 2015

Brady needs to be suspended a min of 4 games. Period. I'd prefer to see it as a year. If you're going to suspend players 4 games and a year a time for smoking marijuana, which has no impact on the game, you better come down harder on something that actually impacts the game.

Did it affect the AFC Championship game? Not really. Doesn't matter.

Cheating is cheating and he needs to face the consequences.

And his agent coming out and whining that they weren't told there was a "sting" operation. REALLY!? You expect to be given a heads up that you're going to be checked for cheating? Do the police give a heads up before drug raids?

geekette · May 7, 2015

What's most annoying to this Colts fan is that NFL generally always lets game results stand. They were not ever going to take back the AFC title regardless of proof of cheating.

the talk of runaway scoring to me shows that Pats had no problems holding onto underinflated footballs. Could they have had more dropped passes or fumbles if they had been forced to use the same footballs as the other team? We'll never know because they got to keep on doing it.

In the future I would like to see the NFL force a forfeit if a team is caught cheating in any fashion, anyone involved with their team. It's not ok that Pats got to move onto the SuperBowl. The problem was known on game day, it did not take months to discover it. Pats could have been forced to forfeit on the same day.

Clemson Fan · May 7, 2015

ace2000 said:
Sorry Clemson - I wasn't referring to your post when I mentioned that. I was just making the point that they didn't need to cheat like that in order to win. It was totally unnecessary and now they got burned.

Yeah, I agree. I actually have a ton of respect for Brady and Belichick.

That being said, I do think the Patriots gained a HUGE advantage since 2006 by letting air out of the footballs because it made them practically fumble proof as a team. I do think they should be punished and punished severely, but the SB victory should not be taken away. They won that fair and square.

hypnotiq · May 7, 2015

Agreed. I dont think the SB victory needs to be vacated.

However, I want to see a severe punishment handed down on Brady. Min of 4 games, preferably a year (which the NFL would never do).

jmurp62 · May 7, 2015

The final report on the investigation into the deflated footballs during the AFC championship game is out
Based on the evidence developed in connection with the investigation and summarized in this Report, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the NFL Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate attempt to circumvent those rules (insert laugh)
"We nevertheless believe, based on the totality of the evidence, that it is more probable than not that Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities. (insert hysterical laughter)

As a league I feel that the NFL was more probable than not screwed out of millions of dollars they could use to have someone impartial watch over every game ball from now until the end of time!

I, having read these comments find it more probable than not that over 100 days were wasted and it is more probable than not that there is no concrete evidence whatsoever of any wrong done by anyone on the Patriots team. As for the comments that the Patriots have been doing this for years thanks for that laugh also. You keep following Warren Sharp, the football analyst? and NFL handicapper. Perhaps Mr Sharp advances his theory because the Patriots beat his handicapping? Hmm, anyone can have a theory and anyone can base his theories on his biased thinking, much like the Well's report.

Until I see some hard facts rather than more probable than nots and at least general awareness I will continue to live in the real world, not the more probable world!

Have a good day all.

Clemson Fan · May 7, 2015

jmurp62 said:
The final report on the investigation into the deflated footballs during the AFC championship game is out
Based on the evidence developed in connection with the investigation and summarized in this Report, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the NFL Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate attempt to circumvent those rules (insert laugh)
"We nevertheless believe, based on the totality of the evidence, that it is more probable than not that Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities. (insert hysterical laughter)

As a league I feel that the NFL was more probable than not screwed out of millions of dollars they could use to have someone impartial watch over every game ball from now until the end of time!

I, having read these comments find it more probable than not that over 100 days were wasted and it is more probable than not that there is no concrete evidence whatsoever of any wrong done by anyone on the Patriots team. As for the comments that the Patriots have been doing this for years thanks for that laugh also. You keep following Warren Sharp, the football analyst? and NFL handicapper. Perhaps Mr Sharp advances his theory because the Patriots beat his handicapping? Hmm, anyone can have a theory and anyone can base his theories on his biased thinking, much like the Well's report.

Until I see some hard facts rather than more probable than nots and at least general awareness I will continue to live in the real world, not the more probable world!

Have a good day all.

If this were a criminal case the Patriots would clearly be found Not Guilty. However, if this were a civil case where the legal standard is a preponderance of the evidence the Patriots would be found Guilty.

There's a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that the Patriots were indeed intentionally deflating footballs to gain a competitive advantage and their startling lack of fumbles IMO shows that they did gain that competitive advantage.

Being the Patriots fan that you are, you can continue to bury your head in the sand and scoff at it all, but the preponderance of the evidence clearly shows that they cheated.

hypnotiq · May 7, 2015

Ah and now the truthers come out. :rofl:

Deflationgate part II

"Roger"

TUG Review Crew

davidvel

davidvel

SueDonJ

pedro47

TUG Review Crew: Expert

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

DaveNV

TUG Review Crew: Expert

Kal

Clemson Fan

ace2000

Timeshare Von

TUG Review Crew: Expert

joewillie12

Clemson Fan

ace2000

SueDonJ

SueDonJ

ace2000

"Roger"

TUG Review Crew

hypnotiq

geekette

Clemson Fan

hypnotiq

jmurp62

Tug Review Crew: Rookie

Clemson Fan

hypnotiq