Deflationgate part II

hypnotiq · May 7, 2015

Clemson Fan said:
If this were a criminal case the Patriots would clearly be found Not Guilty. However, if this were a civil case where the legal standard is a preponderance of the evidence the Patriots would be found Guilty.

There's a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that the Patriots were indeed intentionally deflating footballs to gain a competitive advantage and their startling lack of fumbles IMO shows that they did gain that competitive advantage.

Being the Patriots fan that you are, you can continue to bury your head in the sand and scoff at it all, but the preponderance of the evidence clearly shows that they cheated.

More importantly, the NFL has set the precedent in handing out penalties in the past by using the "more probable than not" as their standard.

Question is whether they will be consistent given who it is and the relationship of Goddell/Kraft.

SueDonJ · May 7, 2015

jmurp62 said:
The final report on the investigation into the deflated footballs during the AFC championship game is out
Based on the evidence developed in connection with the investigation and summarized in this Report, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the NFL Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate attempt to circumvent those rules (insert laugh)
"We nevertheless believe, based on the totality of the evidence, that it is more probable than not that Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities. (insert hysterical laughter)

As a league I feel that the NFL was more probable than not screwed out of millions of dollars they could use to have someone impartial watch over every game ball from now until the end of time!

I, having read these comments find it more probable than not that over 100 days were wasted and it is more probable than not that there is no concrete evidence whatsoever of any wrong done by anyone on the Patriots team. As for the comments that the Patriots have been doing this for years thanks for that laugh also. You keep following Warren Sharp, the football analyst? and NFL handicapper. Perhaps Mr Sharp advances his theory because the Patriots beat his handicapping? Hmm, anyone can have a theory and anyone can base his theories on his biased thinking, much like the Well's report.

Until I see some hard facts rather than more probable than nots and at least general awareness I will continue to live in the real world, not the more probable world!

Have a good day all.

You know, I'm a rabid RedSox fan, think Ortiz is the best thing that's happened to this team since Fisk, but he's still a whiny cry-baby who did steroids and he shouldn't have gotten away with saying the F-word on a national broadcast.

I just don't understand how the rabid Pats fans think that they're helping the situation when they refuse to even consider the possibility, never mind probability, that this team crosses lines that other teams don't even see. Man up, Murph! There's nothing wrong with saying, "Yep they did it and yep it helped them, but despite it the Brady-Belichick tandem is One For The Ages."

davidvel · May 7, 2015

Clemson Fan said:
That being said, I do think the Patriots gained a HUGE advantage since 2006 by letting air out of the footballs because it made them practically fumble proof as a team. I do think they should be punished and punished severely, but the SB victory should not be taken away. They won that fair and square.

I agree. There are a number of reports analyzing the fumble rate that show that the numbers are only possible with some manipulation of balls, including refuting that Belicheat just coaches them better (they fumble again once they are off the Pats.)

Anyone who thinks reducing fumbles doesn't lead to wins, doesn't watch much NFL.

This whole problem was caused by the change in rules allowing each offense to have its own balls (after lobbying by Brady and P. Manning). NFL needs to return to a single set of official balls used by both offenses.

As for the Hawks, Carroll should have asked for a Patriot ball, and had Russell hand it to Beast.

Kal · May 7, 2015

What took so long to finish the report? The balls WERE deflated and the ball manager didn't want to be properly interviewed. And the QB didn't even know the balls were different and wouldn't release his emails or text messages??? REALLY!

Guilty as charged! Now a question of how many games he will be suspended. Use the case against the New Orleans Aints as precedent for the punishment.

SueDonJ · May 7, 2015

jmurp62 said:
The final report on the investigation into the deflated footballs during the AFC championship game is out
Based on the evidence developed in connection with the investigation and summarized in this Report, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the NFL Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate attempt to circumvent those rules (insert laugh)
"We nevertheless believe, based on the totality of the evidence, that it is more probable than not that Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities. (insert hysterical laughter)

As a league I feel that the NFL was more probable than not screwed out of millions of dollars they could use to have someone impartial watch over every game ball from now until the end of time!

I, having read these comments find it more probable than not that over 100 days were wasted and it is more probable than not that there is no concrete evidence whatsoever of any wrong done by anyone on the Patriots team. As for the comments that the Patriots have been doing this for years thanks for that laugh also. You keep following Warren Sharp, the football analyst? and NFL handicapper. Perhaps Mr Sharp advances his theory because the Patriots beat his handicapping? Hmm, anyone can have a theory and anyone can base his theories on his biased thinking, much like the Well's report.

Until I see some hard facts rather than more probable than nots and at least general awareness I will continue to live in the real world, not the more probable world!

Have a good day all.

I learned this afternoon that all the "... more likely to ..., more probable than not ..." etc language used in the report is actually the exact language that's set as the parameters for guilt or innocence in the NFL Rulebook. In other words, the Wells Commission Report doesn't say that there isn't enough evidence to reach anything but findings based on circumstantial evidence, which is the way Patriots supporters are translating it. Instead, the report says that there is enough evidence for guilty findings as they're defined in the NFL Rulebook, which is more damaging to the Patriots than a first read would make it appear.

hypnotiq · May 7, 2015

Here's a nice cross reference w/Bradys statements from January and the Wells Report.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...l?hootPostID=7d40ff73640cb8934f9eda6c04fc5297

geekette · May 7, 2015

davidvel said:
I agree. There are a number of reports analyzing the fumble rate that show that the numbers are only possible with some manipulation of balls, including refuting that Belicheat just coaches them better (they fumble again once they are off the Pats.)

Anyone who thinks reducing fumbles doesn't lead to wins, doesn't watch much NFL.

This whole problem was caused by the change in rules allowing each offense to have its own balls (after lobbying by Brady and P. Manning). NFL needs to return to a single set of official balls used by both offenses.

As for the Hawks, Carroll should have asked for a Patriot ball, and had Russell hand it to Beast.

Fumble reduction is a big deal. Agree, balls go back to the officials, this problem solved. Let the cheaters find a new way.

I cannot know for sure that Pats would have made it to the game where they were caught. They aren't "my team" but I don't recall their season being stellar? My personal biased opinion is that their season should have ended when they were caught cheating. The Colts should have advanced to the Super Bowl. Probably for me forever more, the big win should never have included cheaters and there is a stink on that trophy.

x3 skier · May 8, 2015

Famous quotes

"I am not a crook"

"I've turned over all the relevant emails on my personal server"

"I know nothing about under inflated footballs"

Cheers

ace2000 · May 8, 2015

Jon Stewart's take on it... (hilarious!)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ow-take-on-deflategate-is-funnier-than-yours/

DanO · May 10, 2015

Haters are gonna hate... Go Pats!!

Clemson Fan · May 10, 2015

DanO said:
Haters are gonna hate... Go Pats!!

And it looks like cheaters are going to cheat!

This is a good article from Boston.com

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...ssible-rate/LCgrlUR9qgxDsIgcal9dUI/story.html

It shows that not only since 2007 have the Patriots fumbled at an impossibly low rate (especially for an outdoor team that plays a lot in inclement weather), all their players that handle the ball that were with other teams fumbled at a much higher rate when not playing for the Pats.

Belichick should be counting his lucky stars that he didn't have any involvement in the ball deflation during the Colts game because I'm sure he knew that they've been systemically deflating the footballs since 2007 when the teams were given more control over the game day footballs.

If you think it didn't help Brady, take a look at his stats before and after 2006-2007. There's a fairly stark difference!

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/tom-brady-player-stats

Talent312 · May 10, 2015

Brady's denials sound to me a lot like Bill Clinton's in the Lewinsky matter.

Someone said (I forget who)... The country is split over whether Brady is guilty.
There's 95% of America and then there's the people in (or from) Boston.
.

ace2000 · May 10, 2015

At this point, does it matter? At most, Brady gets suspended for 6-8 games to start the season, and the Pats still probably make the playoffs at the end of the year. The timing of the NFL announcement couldn't have come at a better time for the team. Besides the diehards, nobody cares about football right now. Coincidence?

Edit: He really needs to be suspended for the entire season IMO.

DanO · May 10, 2015

Cheaters please, they are doing nothing different than every other NFL team and QB

joewillie12 · May 10, 2015

DanO said:
Cheaters please, they are doing nothing different than every other NFL team and QB

Even Tim Tebow??:hysterical:

Kal · May 10, 2015

DanO said:
Cheaters please, they are doing nothing different than every other NFL team and QB

Could you provide a few specifics to support that notion?

DanO · May 10, 2015

Aaron Rodgers stated he likes the ball over inflated.

Jay Cutler caught using a towel with stickum on it to wipe the ball during a game.

Jimmy Johnson stating a lot of teams filmed the opposing sidelines regularly including himself when he coached the Cowboys.
This stuff goes on all the time in the NFL and the Patriots got targeted and caught because they are so successful and definitely a little arrogant about it.

Nuf said

joewillie12 · May 10, 2015

DanO said:
Aaron Rodgers stated he likes the ball over inflated.

Jay Cutler caught using a towel with stickum on it to wipe the ball during a game.

Jimmy Johnson stating a lot of teams filmed the opposing sidelines regularly including himself when he coached the Cowboys.
This stuff goes on all the time in the NFL and the Patriots got targeted and caught because they are so successful and definitely a little arrogant about it.
Nuf said

They need to be a little smarter next time and stop getting caught in the act.

x3 skier · May 10, 2015

DanO said:
Aaron Rodgers stated he likes the ball over inflated.

Jay Cutler caught using a towel with stickum on it to wipe the ball during a game.

Jimmy Johnson stating a lot of teams filmed the opposing sidelines regularly including himself when he coached the Cowboys.
This stuff goes on all the time in the NFL and the Patriots got targeted and caught because they are so successful and definitely a little arrogant about it.
Nuf said

3 = "every other team and QB in the NFL":zzz:

Cheers

Clemson Fan · May 11, 2015

x3 skier said:
3 = "every other team and QB in the NFL":zzz:

Cheers

Really 2 because AR said he likes the ball on the upper limit of the inflation scale and he likes it nice and hard. There's no evidence that him or GB have been intentionally hyperinflating the balls. One can argue that that actually hurts his team with increased fumbles and increased dropped passes.

Kal · May 11, 2015

DanO said:
...Jimmy Johnson stating a lot of teams filmed the opposing sidelines regularly including himself when he coached the Cowboys.
This stuff goes on all the time in the NFL and the Patriots got targeted and caught because they are so successful and definitely a little arrogant about it.
Nuf said

Hmmm, Johnson's departure from the NFL was in 1993. That was just 22 years ago. Similar do you have any hot dirt on Y.A. Tittle?

hypnotiq · May 11, 2015

And here you have it...I would have liked to see a longer suspension but surprised he got 4 games at it is. #cheater

Tom Brady suspended 4 games, Patriots fined $1M, lose their 2016 first-round pick and a 2017 fourth-round pick.

SueDonJ · May 11, 2015

Wow. I'm okay with all of it except for the two locker room idiots losing their jobs. What were they supposed to do, say no to the orders?!

CBS Boston news: Tom Brady Suspended Four Games For DeflateGate; Patriots Docked Draft Picks, Fined $1 Million

x3 skier · May 11, 2015

Kal said:
Hmmm, Johnson's departure from the NFL was in 1993. That was just 22 years ago. Similar do you have any hot dirt on Y.A. Tittle?

I always knew Frank Gifford was a crook. :hysterical:

Cheers

hypnotiq · May 11, 2015

The problem is Brady will appeal and it will get reduced, which will make me not OK with it.

I wanted to see a min of 4 games (though I think he deserves a year) post appeal.

If you fail the NFL drug test a couple of times for marijuana, you get 4 games. You cheat, you get the same or less...that's part of my problem with it.

And agree about the locker room guys.

Deflationgate part II

hypnotiq

SueDonJ

davidvel

Kal

SueDonJ

hypnotiq

geekette

x3 skier

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

ace2000

DanO

Clemson Fan

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

ace2000

DanO

joewillie12

Kal

DanO

joewillie12

x3 skier

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

Clemson Fan

Kal

hypnotiq

SueDonJ

x3 skier

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

hypnotiq