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Deflationgate part II

Mr. Vker

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Appeal must be made to the NFL Commissioner.

Wow, that might cause some intestinal blockage :doh:

Brady already announced he would appeal. I just wonder if the Pats will as well. Or, will they accept the decision as they stated over the weekend.
 

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Brady already announced he would appeal. I just wonder if the Pats will as well. Or, will they accept the decision as they stated over the weekend.

From wcvb.com

"Tom Brady's agent, Don Yee, released a statement Monday after Brady was given a four-game suspension for his role in the Deflategate controversy:

"The discipline is ridiculous and has no legitimate basis. In my opinion, this outcome was pre-determined; there was no fairness in the Wells investigation whatsoever. There is no evidence that Tom directed footballs be set at pressures below the allowable limits.


"In fact, the evidence shows Tom clearly emphasized that footballs be set at pressures within the rules.


"Tom also cooperated with the investigation and answered every question presented to him. The Wells Report presents significant evidence, however, that the NFL lacks standards or protocols with respect to its handling of footballs prior to games; this is not the fault of Tom or the Patriots.


"The report also presents significant evidence the NFL participated with the Colts in some type of pre-AFC Championship Game planning regarding the footballs. This fact may raise serious questions about the integrity of the games we view on Sundays.


"We will appeal, and if the hearing officer is completely independent and neutral, I am very confident the Wells Report will be exposed as an incredibly frail exercise in fact-finding and logic.


"The NFL has a well-documented history of making poor disciplinary decisions that often are overturned when truly independent and neutral judges or arbitrators preside, and a former federal judge has found the commissioner has abused his discretion in the past, so this outcome does not surprise me.


"Sadly, today's decision diminishes the NFL as it tells its fans, players and coaches that the games on the field don't count as much as the games played on Park Avenue."
 

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The fact that his agent is still throwing a fit about the fact that there was a "sting" operation is laughable.

Yes, the NFL should have given you notice they were going to check to see if you were cheating. Just like they email all the players before drug tests...
 

Mr. Vker

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From wcvb.com

"Tom Brady's agent, Don Yee, released a statement Monday after Brady was given a four-game suspension for his role in the Deflategate controversy:

"The discipline is ridiculous and has no legitimate basis. In my opinion, this outcome was pre-determined; there was no fairness in the Wells investigation whatsoever. There is no evidence that Tom directed footballs be set at pressures below the allowable limits.


"In fact, the evidence shows Tom clearly emphasized that footballs be set at pressures within the rules.


"Tom also cooperated with the investigation and answered every question presented to him. The Wells Report presents significant evidence, however, that the NFL lacks standards or protocols with respect to its handling of footballs prior to games; this is not the fault of Tom or the Patriots.


"The report also presents significant evidence the NFL participated with the Colts in some type of pre-AFC Championship Game planning regarding the footballs. This fact may raise serious questions about the integrity of the games we view on Sundays.


"We will appeal, and if the hearing officer is completely independent and neutral, I am very confident the Wells Report will be exposed as an incredibly frail exercise in fact-finding and logic.


"The NFL has a well-documented history of making poor disciplinary decisions that often are overturned when truly independent and neutral judges or arbitrators preside, and a former federal judge has found the commissioner has abused his discretion in the past, so this outcome does not surprise me.


"Sadly, today's decision diminishes the NFL as it tells its fans, players and coaches that the games on the field don't count as much as the games played on Park Avenue."

This confirms that Brady is appealing. My question is about the team... Kraft said they would accept the ruling of the NFL. So what about the draft picks and the fine. (Brady can only appeal his suspension.)
 

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Tom Brady has been suspended for the first four (4) games of the 2015-16 football season and the team was fine one million dollars(peanuts). Plus the loss of two (2) future draft picks. Wow now that was a very soft fine on Brady and the Team in my opinion.
The fine may be small but the penalty is large. The legacy of Brady and the Pats have been tarnished forever. Twenty five years from now when people talk about the Patriots they will be also remembered as being caught cheating. Most likely in the same manner that Bonds, Arod,and Lance Armstrong will be. It really is a shame because the Patriots have had really good solid teams and Brady a hall of fame career. I wonder if this will effect is HOF status someday?
 

ace2000

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When do we get to hear the apology that the Patriots owner kept asking for? :hysterical:
 

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The fact that his agent is still throwing a fit about the fact that there was a "sting" operation is laughable.

Yes, the NFL should have given you notice they were going to check to see if you were cheating. Just like they email all the players before drug tests...

Actually the fact that they ran a 'sting' operation is pretty appalling. And yes, they said as much in the Wells report that it was a sting.

This took place during the AFC championship game. We know that they will not reverse the outcome of a game. What if the score had been run up to 50-0 during the first half, just so during halftime the Patriots could be 'caught in the act'? The powers that be were more concerned about making certain that the 'cheating' happened than the actual integrity of the (CHAMPIONSHIP) game - being a fair matchup for both teams involved.

This certainly blew up more because of the way that it went down. Instead of double checking that everything was taken care of appropriately before the game thus a fair game played, they had to do it at halftime.

I certainly am not condoning 'cheating' in a game, but the way it was handled was certainly done more to 'catch someone in the act' rather than paying attention to the integrity of the game. It was actually quite childish actions coming from grown adults.
 

hypnotiq

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Actually the fact that they ran a 'sting' operation is pretty appalling. And yes, they said as much in the Wells report that it was a sting.



This took place during the AFC championship game. We know that they will not reverse the outcome of a game. What if the score had been run up to 50-0 during the first half, just so during halftime the Patriots could be 'caught in the act'? The powers that be were more concerned about making certain that the 'cheating' happened than the actual integrity of the (CHAMPIONSHIP) game - being a fair matchup for both teams involved.



This certainly blew up more because of the way that it went down. Instead of double checking that everything was taken care of appropriately before the game thus a fair game played, they had to do it at halftime.



I certainly am not condoning 'cheating' in a game, but the way it was handled was certainly done more to 'catch someone in the act' rather than paying attention to the integrity of the game. It was actually quite childish actions coming from grown adults.


I never said it wasn't a sting. And it should have been one. You don't give a team a heads up that you're checking them for cheating if they're suspected of it. That's like giving a drug dealer a heads up of a drug raid.

And I said long ago that what they did didn't impact that game. Doesn't matter. Bottom line. They cheated. It's not the first time they did it and they should be punished. Brady knew damn well what was going on and is not innocent.

The Patriots will not be remembered in history for their 4 Super Bowls. They will be remembered for being caught cheating TWICE. Though it's clear that the organization doesn't care that it's their legacy now.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

slip

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Footballs about winning championships. There will be some people that feel the
Way you do but they will be remembered for their 4 Super Bowls.
 

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And I said long ago that what they did didn't impact that game. Doesn't matter. Bottom line.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're right. It didn't impact the game, but what if it did? I am not saying that they shouldn't be punished or that they didn't cheat. It was the wrong game to run a sting.
 

DavidnRobin

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What? Didn't impact game? That is only true if both sides used the same balls - but that is not how it works. The 2 teams use different sets of balls - that is what is wrong, and that should be rectified - both teams should use same game balls.
Why isn't this discussed?

btw - this just in...
Brady suspended for 1st 4 games of season
NE fined 1 MM
Loses 1st round draft pick in 2016, and 4th round in 2017
 
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Beaglemom3

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Yes, David, I agree.

I have to take my Pats hat off and put my legal one on and look at the facts. "Facts are stubborn things" - John Adams

For those of you haven't actually read Wells' report, this should be enlightening:

By Doug Kyed, NESN.COM

Five Biggest Issues With Evidence Against Patriots In Wells Report

If the NFL is going to punish Tom Brady severely, then it will be doing so despite flawed data and a lack of concrete evidence the Patriots quarterback was involved in any shenanigans. Any PSI data should likely be thrown out by the league because of the multitude of errors made by the NFL and its officials on Jan. 18, 2015.


Here are the five biggest issues in the Wells Report:

— PSI wasn’t recorded before the AFC Championship Game

This is the biggest issue with any data trying to prove the Patriots deflated footballs. Referee Walt Anderson, after being told football pressure could be an issue in the AFC Championship Game, didn’t record his pregame measurements. The Wells report bases all data on the Colts’ footballs being 13 PSI before the game and the Patriots’ footballs being 12.5 based on Anderson’s recollection.

If the Patriots’ footballs were a tick under 12.5 PSI or if the Colts’ footballs were a tick over 13 PSI, then it throws off all data. Anderson said he didn’t add or release pressure from the Colts’ footballs. One Colts football measured at 12.95 PSI on one gauge, so it seems extremely unlikely that football began at 13 PSI.

— Two pressure gauges used were wildly off
Another major issue with any data relating to the PSI in either team’s footballs is the two pressure gauges used were approximately .35 PSI off from one another. Anderson said he recalls using the “logo” gauge, which reads higher than the non-logo gauge. The Wells Report ignored Anderson’s recollection and chose to assume he used the non-logo gauge because it suited their data better.

If the logo gauge was used before the AFC Championship Game, then the Patriots’ footballs averaged 11.48 PSI at halftime, which is well within the level a football can drop according to the Ideal Gas Law during the AFC Championship Game. If the non-logo gauge was used, then it looks far more damning for the Patriots. That’s the issue, though. No one knows which gauge was used, and it’s entirely possible Anderson used both gauges before the game to measure PSI for both teams and reduce pressure in the Patriots’ footballs.

If the NFL wants footballs to fall within a 1 PSI range, then it can’t use gauges that range considerably from one another.

— Colts footballs were tested after Patriots footballs

The footballs were brought inside the officials locker room at halftime, and 11 Patriots footballs and four Colts footballs were tested. The Patriots footballs were tested, and possibly refilled, before the officials tested the Colts footballs. The officials were in the locker room for 13-and-a-half minutes, and based on data collected in the Wells Report, a cold, damp football can raise 0.7 PSI in 13 minutes. That amount of time would at least partially explain why the Patriots’ footballs deflated more than the Colts’ footballs.

Only testing four Colts footballs — because of time restraints — is another issue because of small sample size. The Colts footballs were supposed to serve as a “control,” but that idea was destroyed when the footballs weren’t tested simultaneously, and when the NFL decided to test just four footballs from Indianapolis.

Text messages were dated months before AFC Championship Game
The most damning evidence against the Patriots is within the text exchanges between team staffers John Jastremski and Jim McNally, in which the former references a needle and the latter calls himself “the deflator” and jokingly threatens to “go to ESPN.” The issue with these texts is they’re from May and October — months away from the January AFC Championship Game. Those texts would look a lot more damning if they came in the weeks prior to the Patriots’ matchup against the Colts.

Who’s to say the Patriots were deflating footballs, then stopped before January because they caught wind the league was after them? Obviously McNally’s trip to the bathroom looks suspicious, and the fact that he originally said he didn’t stop in the restroom in his initial interview looks even worse, but it alone probably shouldn’t assume guilt.

— Texts never state Tom Brady wanted his footballs under 12.5 PSI

The closest Jastremski or McNally comes to saying Brady is in on any deflation is when Jastremski texts the following:

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…
Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though…
Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn… The refs (expletive) us…a few of then were at almost 16
Jastremski: They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

This was after the Patriots’ Week 7 win over the New York Jets, and it actually raises more questions than answers.

If McNally’s stress was to deflate footballs, then why were they at 16 PSI the next morning? Apparently, McNally wasn’t doing his job very well.

Why were the footballs at 16 PSI at all? The Patriots must have submitted footballs under 12.5, the officials must have refilled them, and they refilled them way too much without checking the level, proving no one really cared about football inflation or deflation as recently as October.

McNally also sends these texts to his fiancée that week:

Jastremski: Ugh…Tom was right.
Jastremski: I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs… They were like 16. Felt like bricks

This is actually the only text in which Brady’s desired PSI is revealed, and it’s not 12.5 or lower. McNally told the officials Brady wanted the footballs inflated to 12.5. A common theme in Jastremski and McNally’s texts is Brady complaining about the PSI level in footballs, but it all seems to be related to the Jets game, when they were overfilled by 3.5 PSI.
 
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Clemson Fan

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Actually the fact that they ran a 'sting' operation is pretty appalling. And yes, they said as much in the Wells report that it was a sting.

This took place during the AFC championship game. We know that they will not reverse the outcome of a game. What if the score had been run up to 50-0 during the first half, just so during halftime the Patriots could be 'caught in the act'? The powers that be were more concerned about making certain that the 'cheating' happened than the actual integrity of the (CHAMPIONSHIP) game - being a fair matchup for both teams involved.

This certainly blew up more because of the way that it went down. Instead of double checking that everything was taken care of appropriately before the game thus a fair game played, they had to do it at halftime.

I certainly am not condoning 'cheating' in a game, but the way it was handled was certainly done more to 'catch someone in the act' rather than paying attention to the integrity of the game. It was actually quite childish actions coming from grown adults.

I partially agree with you. I don't think it was a full fledged "sting" operation, but if it was, then your right in that it was very poorly done and it did affect the integrity of the AFC Championship Game. If it was truly a sting what they should've done is checked all the footballs before the game like they normally do, give them to NE's equipment guy like they normally do, THEN put a hidden camera on him and as soon as he comes out of the bathroom have another official there to "intercept" him and take the footballs back and re-measure them before the game. The official could then re-inflate them to specs and they can continue on with the game. NE would be caught cheating, but the game could still be played without any lost integrity.
 

x3 skier

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I don't get all the talk about a sting. If it was to be a sting, it would have been simple to take a few balls after the first Pats offensive series or even before or after kickoff, measure the pressure, have them correctly inflated, and then issue penalties after investigating how they were deflated.

Who knows why they never checked until later unless the fix was in which means the Super Bowl only cost the Pats $1M (peanuts) a couple of draft choices and Brady a couple of million he will never miss. That makes as much sense as calling it some kind of sting. :rolleyes:

The Pats cheated, got caught, and are now whining about it, especially the Bozo Brady Agent.

Cheers
 

SueDonJ

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So the Colts tipped off the league days before the game that the Pats were deflating footballs, whether they heard it from the Ravens or if they suspected it in past Pats/Colts games. Maybe the league started looking into it immediately and found the lopsided fumble stats, because wouldn't the stats be the first thing they'd look at? And from there they decided that in order to conduct a full investigation and thus levy punishments based on a pattern rather than one game, they'd have to catch the Pats in the act?

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the league had a deal with the Colts for an in-game ball to be turned in after a fumble, or that if that opportunity didn't present itself then they had other contingencies to get official hands on an in-play ball. Consider that a delay of game at the start wouldn't have nearly the cache for instigating a full investigation as a ball in play, again if a pattern is what they thought they were dealing with and what they hoped to punish.
 
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Clemson Fan

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Yes, David, I agree.

I have to take my Pats hat off and put my legal one on and look at the facts. "Facts are stubborn things" - John Adams

For those of you haven't actually read Wells' report, this should be enlightening:

By Doug Kyed, NESN.COM

Five Biggest Issues With Evidence Against Patriots In Wells Report

If the NFL is going to punish Tom Brady severely, then it will be doing so despite flawed data and a lack of concrete evidence the Patriots quarterback was involved in any shenanigans. Any PSI data should likely be thrown out by the league because of the multitude of errors made by the NFL and its officials on Jan. 18, 2015.


Here are the five biggest issues in the Wells Report:

— PSI wasn’t recorded before the AFC Championship Game

This is the biggest issue with any data trying to prove the Patriots deflated footballs. Referee Walt Anderson, after being told football pressure could be an issue in the AFC Championship Game, didn’t record his pregame measurements. The Wells report bases all data on the Colts’ footballs being 13 PSI before the game and the Patriots’ footballs being 12.5 based on Anderson’s recollection.

If the Patriots’ footballs were a tick under 12.5 PSI or if the Colts’ footballs were a tick over 13 PSI, then it throws off all data. Anderson said he didn’t add or release pressure from the Colts’ footballs. One Colts football measured at 12.95 PSI on one gauge, so it seems extremely unlikely that football began at 13 PSI.

— Two pressure gauges used were wildly off
Another major issue with any data relating to the PSI in either team’s footballs is the two pressure gauges used were approximately .35 PSI off from one another. Anderson said he recalls using the “logo” gauge, which reads higher than the non-logo gauge. The Wells Report ignored Anderson’s recollection and chose to assume he used the non-logo gauge because it suited their data better.

If the logo gauge was used before the AFC Championship Game, then the Patriots’ footballs averaged 11.48 PSI at halftime, which is well within the level a football can drop according to the Ideal Gas Law during the AFC Championship Game. If the non-logo gauge was used, then it looks far more damning for the Patriots. That’s the issue, though. No one knows which gauge was used, and it’s entirely possible Anderson used both gauges before the game to measure PSI for both teams and reduce pressure in the Patriots’ footballs.

If the NFL wants footballs to fall within a 1 PSI range, then it can’t use gauges that range considerably from one another.

— Colts footballs were tested after Patriots footballs

The footballs were brought inside the officials locker room at halftime, and 11 Patriots footballs and four Colts footballs were tested. The Patriots footballs were tested, and possibly refilled, before the officials tested the Colts footballs. The officials were in the locker room for 13-and-a-half minutes, and based on data collected in the Wells Report, a cold, damp football can raise 0.7 PSI in 13 minutes. That amount of time would at least partially explain why the Patriots’ footballs deflated more than the Colts’ footballs.

Only testing four Colts footballs — because of time restraints — is another issue because of small sample size. The Colts footballs were supposed to serve as a “control,” but that idea was destroyed when the footballs weren’t tested simultaneously, and when the NFL decided to test just four footballs from Indianapolis.

Text messages were dated months before AFC Championship Game
The most damning evidence against the Patriots is within the text exchanges between team staffers John Jastremski and Jim McNally, in which the former references a needle and the latter calls himself “the deflator” and jokingly threatens to “go to ESPN.” The issue with these texts is they’re from May and October — months away from the January AFC Championship Game. Those texts would look a lot more damning if they came in the weeks prior to the Patriots’ matchup against the Colts.

Who’s to say the Patriots were deflating footballs, then stopped before January because they caught wind the league was after them? Obviously McNally’s trip to the bathroom looks suspicious, and the fact that he originally said he didn’t stop in the restroom in his initial interview looks even worse, but it alone probably shouldn’t assume guilt.

— Texts never state Tom Brady wanted his footballs under 12.5 PSI

The closest Jastremski or McNally comes to saying Brady is in on any deflation is when Jastremski texts the following:

Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…
Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though…
Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn… The refs (expletive) us…a few of then were at almost 16
Jastremski: They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

This was after the Patriots’ Week 7 win over the New York Jets, and it actually raises more questions than answers.

If McNally’s stress was to deflate footballs, then why were they at 16 PSI the next morning? Apparently, McNally wasn’t doing his job very well.

Why were the footballs at 16 PSI at all? The Patriots must have submitted footballs under 12.5, the officials must have refilled them, and they refilled them way too much without checking the level, proving no one really cared about football inflation or deflation as recently as October.

McNally also sends these texts to his fiancée that week:

Jastremski: Ugh…Tom was right.
Jastremski: I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs… They were like 16. Felt like bricks

This is actually the only text in which Brady’s desired PSI is revealed, and it’s not 12.5 or lower. McNally told the officials Brady wanted the footballs inflated to 12.5. A common theme in Jastremski and McNally’s texts is Brady complaining about the PSI level in footballs, but it all seems to be related to the Jets game, when they were overfilled by 3.5 PSI.

I read this whole post and all I can say is it reads like just a bunch of Boston homer BS. I could spend time poking holes in his arguments and I may do that later when I have more time.
 

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I don't get all the talk about a sting. If it was to be a sting, it would have been simple to take a few balls after the first Pats offensive series or even before or after kickoff, measure the pressure, have them correctly inflated, and then issue penalties after investigating how they were deflated.

Who knows why they never checked until later unless the fix was in which means the Super Bowl only cost the Pats $1M (peanuts) a couple of draft choices and Brady a couple of million he will never miss. That makes as much sense as calling it some kind of sting. :rolleyes:

The Pats cheated, got caught, and are now whining about it, especially the Bozo Brady Agent.

Cheers

Yes, that's why I don't think it was a "sting". It was more of just an alert to be aware of this possibility.
 

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The fine may be small but the penalty is large. The legacy of Brady and the Pats have been tarnished forever. Twenty five years from now when people talk about the Patriots they will be also remembered as being caught cheating. Most likely in the same manner that Bonds, Arod,and Lance Armstrong will be. It really is a shame because the Patriots have had really good solid teams and Brady a hall of fame career. I wonder if this will effect is HOF status someday?

Not for me. In my mind Brady is still one of the best QB's ever to play the game and Belichick is one of the best coaches of all time. Then again, I'm on record here as being in favor of PED's as long as they're monitored by a physician and don't do permanent harm. I actually don't mind if players or coaches look for edges to help their team and if they're caught it doesn't permanently stain their whole career IMO. Admittedly, though, I'm probably in the minority.

I do find great enjoyment listening to all the "it's science dude" experts coming from the Boston area trying to explain this away.
 

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Clemson Fan

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Then you might find NBS Sports even more enlightening and the pressure gauge discrepancies undermining the Wells report. Not only from Boston, but nice try.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/pressure-gauge-discrepancies-undermine-wells-report/




-

Give me a break. It wasn't a scientific study and shouldn't be held up to those standards. That's why the findings were "more probable than not" and why it wasn't a true "sting" like a lot of Bostonites are screaming.
 

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This confirms that Brady is appealing. My question is about the team... Kraft said they would accept the ruling of the NFL. So what about the draft picks and the fine. (Brady can only appeal his suspension.)

Kraft's statement tonight leaves the door open for appeal with that "however" thrown in ...

"Despite our conviction that there was no tampering with footballs, it was our intention to accept any discipline levied by the league. Today’s punishment, however, far exceeded any reasonable expectation. It was based completely on circumstantial rather than hard or conclusive evidence."

"We are humbled by the support the New England Patriots have received from our fans throughout the world. We recognize our fans’ concerns regarding the NFL’s penalties and share in their disappointment in how this one-sided investigation was handled, as well as the dismissal of the scientific evidence supported by the Ideal Gas Law in the final report."

"Tom Brady has our unconditional support. Our belief in him has not wavered."


Did anybody ever really believe that they'd sit and take whatever the league handed down without at least trying to discredit it? Not me - living here you learn very quickly that the Pats are the league's scapegoats and they never ever never ever never NEVER EVER get a fair shake. "Haters gonna hate, winners gonna win, blahblahblah" :rolleyes:
 

Beaglemom3

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Give me a break. It wasn't a scientific study and shouldn't be held up to those standards. That's why the findings were "more probable than not" and why it wasn't a true "sting" like a lot of Bostonites are screaming.

Uh, that would be Bostonian.


I can see that you would not come out in favor of science if you support the physician supervised doping of athletes. That is what I call bad science and cheating. YMMV.

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