• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Deflationgate part II

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,612
Reaction score
5,778
Points
1,249
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
Sportstalk Radio and the internet are going to make me completely lose my mind in the next few days, I just know it. Trending on Facebook, "#nobradynobanner" - these yahoos don't want the team to unfurl the Super Bowl banner next season until Brady is on the field in the game. And one guy outside the stadium wants the team to forfeit whichever games Brady has to sit out next year. Oh yeah, that'll show 'em. Really, my head is going to explode.
 

Beaglemom3

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,026
Reaction score
92
Points
433
Location
Boston
Sportstalk Radio and the internet are going to make me completely lose my mind in the next few days, I just know it. Trending on Facebook, "#nobradynobanner" - these yahoos don't want the team to unfurl the Super Bowl banner next season until Brady is on the field in the game. And one guy outside the stadium wants the team to forfeit whichever games Brady has to sit out next year. Oh yeah, that'll show 'em. Really, my head is going to explode.

Just change the station. I had Loren & Wally on all morning. Made me laugh.

-
 

joewillie12

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
228
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Not for me. In my mind Brady is still one of the best QB's ever to play the game and Belichick is one of the best coaches of all time. Then again, I'm on record here as being in favor of PED's as long as they're monitored by a physician and don't do permanent harm. I actually don't mind if players or coaches look for edges to help their team and if they're caught it doesn't permanently stain their whole career IMO. Admittedly, though, I'm probably in the minority.

I do find great enjoyment listening to all the "it's science dude" experts coming from the Boston area trying to explain this away.
Totally agree that Brady has been an all pro QB for almost his entire career. No argument there. Belicheck one of the smartest coaches with the ability to get the most out of his players I've ever seen. The competitive nature of an athlete is to gain an advantage over his/her opponent and win in the event they are competing in and be the best while doing it. I think we agree there.
Unfortunately athletes/coaches compromise the integrity of their sport by breaking the rules that are in place to gain that advantage. Some rules may seem minuscule as the air in a football but they are rules that are there to be followed. I think Brady will forever carry the stigma of cheater because of what he has accomplished in his career. A lesser player no one will remember. Imagine if Jack Nicklaus was caught using tainted golf balls. Would we think of him in the same manner now? Would he be in the PGA hall of fame? I guess time will only tell.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,612
Reaction score
5,778
Points
1,249
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
Just change the station. I had Loren & Wally on all morning. Made me laugh.

-

But I can't! I've had a completely irrational crush on Tony Mazz for years and have to hear him every afternoon. (In my defense, it's a lot more reasonable than the crush I used to have on former-CNN anchor Aaron Brown.) :rofl:
 

Clemson Fan

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
8
Points
398
Location
Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Uh, that would be Bostonian.


I can see that you would not come out in favor of science if you support the physician supervised doping of athletes. That is what I call bad science and cheating. YMMV.

-

I've had an epiphany. There are many Bostonian's that are fabulous and world renowned scientists. Combine that with being a Boston sports fan and I can see why they keep writing articles about the the Wells Report failing on a scientific basis. Again, on a strictly scientific basis there are a lot of holes and it does fail. However, it was an investigation about possible cheating and not a pre-planned scientific study. Thus the findings were, "more probable than not."

As far as the "doping" of athletes, you can call it cheating, but you can't call it bad science. The science behind many of the substances being used that are illegal to their particular sports is actually quite remarkable. Many of those substances (HGH, EPO, steroids, etc.) are used to treat a host of real diseases and they benefit a great many patients. EPO (the main "doping" agent Lance Armstrong used), for example, is used in a lot of cancer and kidney patients with great results.
 

Beaglemom3

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,026
Reaction score
92
Points
433
Location
Boston
I've had an epiphany. There are many Bostonian's that are fabulous and world renowned scientists. Combine that with being a Boston sports fan and I can see why they keep writing articles about the the Wells Report failing on a scientific basis. Again, on a strictly scientific basis there are a lot of holes and it does fail. However, it was an investigation about possible cheating and not a pre-planned scientific study. Thus the findings were, "more probable than not."

As far as the "doping" of athletes, you can call it cheating, but you can't call it bad science. The science behind many of the substances being used that are illegal to their particular sports is actually quite remarkable. Many of those substances (HGH, EPO, steroids, etc.) are used to treat a host of real diseases and they benefit a great many patients. EPO (the main "doping" agent Lance Armstrong used), for example, is used in a lot of cancer and kidney patients with great results.

I'm on record here as being in favor of PED's as long as they're monitored by a physician and don't do permanent harm. I actually don't mind if players or coaches look for edges to help their team and if they're caught it doesn't permanently stain their whole career IMO. Admittedly, though, I'm probably in the minority.


That is Bostonians, plural. Not Bostonian's, possessive.

Yes, good for some disease states, but that wasn't your point of reference.

Back peddling ?

PEDs: http://www.usada.org/substances/effects-of-performance-enhancing-drugs/
 
Last edited:

Clemson Fan

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
8
Points
398
Location
Ewa Beach, Hawaii
I'm on record here as being in favor of PED's as long as they're monitored by a physician and don't do permanent harm. I actually don't mind if players or coaches look for edges to help their team and if they're caught it doesn't permanently stain their whole career IMO. Admittedly, though, I'm probably in the minority.


That is Bostonians, plural. Not Bostonian's, possessive.

Yes, good for some disease states, but that wasn't your point of reference.

Back peddling ?

PEDs: http://www.usada.org/substances/effects-of-performance-enhancing-drugs/

Nope. No back peddling. I stand by my statement and I'm just expounding on it. I'm in favor of PED's as long as they're scientifically proven, are monitored by a physician, and don't cause permanent harm. Is that better for you?

For example, I'm not in favor of bigger, faster and stronger NFL players because of the increased concussion risk. My favorite time for baseball, however, was when Sosa and McGuire were smashing out those HR's. That was must see TV. Now baseball is boring IMO.

Yes, it's true, the language side of my brain ain't mys strong suit. I scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT. The English portion of the SAT - ah not so much. Guilty as charged.
 

Clemson Fan

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
8
Points
398
Location
Ewa Beach, Hawaii
In a bit of irony since Brady was suspended 4 games without pay it will save the Patriots 1.8 million in salary. They were fined 1 million which means they'll end up making an extra $800,000. I know that's just peanuts for them, but it is ironic nonetheless.

I'm still surprised the Patriots organization was hit so hard with the loss of those picks. However, I'm glad the NFL didn't focus on just that one Colts game and came to the conclusion that they've "more probable than not" been deflating footballs for quite a long time.
 

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
In a bit of irony since Brady was suspended 4 games without pay it will save the Patriots 1.8 million in salary. They were fined 1 million which means they'll end up making an extra $800,000. I know that's just peanuts for them, but it is ironic nonetheless.

I'm still surprised the Patriots organization was hit so hard with the loss of those picks. However, I'm glad the NFL didn't focus on just that one Colts game and came to the conclusion that they've "more probable than not" been deflating footballs for quite a long time.

It will be interesting if the Patriots side with Tom Brady and restructure his contract into a signing bonus with the base at the minimum. If they do this he will only lose $228K. If they do not do this to me it is a big sign that behind the scenes they are not happy with their QB's actions. All the talk by Kraft indicates he is in defiance of the league and supports Brady. We will see if his actions back up his words.

They basically got slapped on both sides of the face and then punched in the gut on the lost picks. Spygate had a massive impact on the penalties.
 
Last edited:

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
Rules are in place to ensure fair competition. Pushing bounds is one thing, but going over the line is cheating and bad sportsmanship. For professional athletes it's simply unconscionable to me. I won't be remembering the Pats as a dynasty, I will remember them as habitual cheaters and this last Super Bowl carries a large asterisk.

I do not believe they cheated in one game only, as I recall there was mention of it being common knowledge around the league that they were doing this. Too bad it wasn't until a championship game when someone tipped off the officials. Maybe it took until then to get someone to listen? I don't know.

Pats shouldn't have been in the playoffs. Cheaters should not be in the game. Tommy has much more smarm than charm.
 

Elan

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,455
Reaction score
409
Points
468
Location
Idaho
Spygate had a massive impact on the penalties.

Yep. There's a pattern of knowingly breaking the rules to gain a competitive advantage. I don't know how anyone could view the penalty as overly severe given that.
 

GregT

TUG Member
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
7,128
Reaction score
1,886
Points
599
Location
Carlsbad, CA
Resorts Owned
Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, Aruba Ocean Club, DC Points HGVC: Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, TradeWinds, Worldmark
I do not believe they cheated in one game only

I agree and this is real bummer for those of us that have (routinely) lost to the Patriots over the years. The Chargers lost to the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game played in New England in January 2008, and it makes me wonder if the Patriots were cheating back then. Chargers lost 21-12 and it's a bummer to think that maybe the Patriots were using a corked bat.

That was also the year the Patriots went 16-0 in the regular season. :ponder:

It really is a shame for their legacy, because they've been so good for so long.

Best,

Greg
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
I agree and this is real bummer for those of us that have (routinely) lost to the Patriots over the years. The Chargers lost to the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game played in New England in January 2008, and it makes me wonder if the Patriots were cheating back then. Chargers lost 21-12 and it's a bummer to think that maybe the Patriots were using a corked bat.

That was also the year the Patriots went 16-0 in the regular season. :ponder:

It really is a shame for their legacy, because they've been so good for so long.

Best,

Greg

Or, we only thought they'd been so good. Makes me wonder what else they've been doing and not caught at.

I'm going to be sore a long time as the Colts should have been in the Super Bowl. Absolutely, the Pats have harmed the integrity of the game and that cannot be undone.
 

#1 Cowboys Fan

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,080
Reaction score
390
Points
443
I only have one comment to make about all of the hoopla.
(no comment about suspension, penalty, fines, etc---though I do have an opinion about those too).

I simply have lost a LOT of respect for Tom Brady as a PERSON (he still is a Great Player.) It's sad to see......

Pat
 

hypnotiq

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
1,359
Reaction score
66
Points
258
Location
Redmond, WA
Some of the fans of the Patriots are the brightest either. :ignore:

Lets crowdfund and raise money to pay for a billionaires fine. :rofl:

http://www.gofundme.com/NewEnglandPatriots

$4k raised so far...including this guy, who donated $500 alone. SMH

$500 - Jay Daignault
 
Last edited:

hypnotiq

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
1,359
Reaction score
66
Points
258
Location
Redmond, WA
They're interviewing Ted Wells right now. Some really interesting information.

Ted Wells (responding to Don Yee comments): I think it’s wrong to question my independence because you don’t like my findings.

Ted Wells: No one from Brady’s camp raised any issue with my impartiality before investigation. Kraft welcomed my appointment.

Ted Wells: I told Tom Brady that I wouldn’t even hold his phone. I Would just take printouts. Brady would not provide the information

Ted Wells: Patriots provided me substantial cooperation except in 1 critical & crucial area – I wanted to do a 2nd interview with McNally.

Ted Wells: I wanted to speak to McNally a second time after finding "The Deflator" text. That's when the Pats suddenly stopped cooperating.

Ted Wells (on the text exchanges): That is not circumstantial evidence. That is two participants in the scheme discussing what is taking place.
 

John Cummings

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,020
Reaction score
80
Points
433
Location
Murrieta, California
...Some rules may seem minuscule as the air in a football but they are rules that are there to be followed.

This is not minuscule at all. Anybody that has played catch with a football knows that it is much easier to throw and catch if it is under inflated.
 

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,461
Reaction score
7,277
Points
948
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
As we (who remember) learned from Watergate:
It's not so much the original crime, but the coverup (or failure to cooperate) that brings the heat.
 

Clemson Fan

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
8
Points
398
Location
Ewa Beach, Hawaii
As we (who remember) learned from Watergate:
It's not so much the original crime, but the coverup (or failure to cooperate) that brings the heat.

I agree that I think it was the cover-up and failure to cooperate that got them hammered.

However, I hear so many people poo-pooing the "crime" as not being a big deal.

-They beat the Colts by a million points anyway
-They scored more points against the Colts in the 2nd half when the footballs were re-inflated
-They beat the Seahawks in the SB with properly inflated balls
-Who cares about a little air
-The impact on the game is negligible
-Etc., etc., etc.

IMO, I think they've been doing this since 2007 and the advantage they received from it was HUGE. I think it's much bigger than spygate.

They're lucky Seattle was so injured and handed them that SB because I think they're done winning SB's! Sure they'll probably still win their lousy division, but they aren't winning another SB.
 

Clemson Fan

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
8
Points
398
Location
Ewa Beach, Hawaii
BTW, for those of you who feel sorry for the two equipment guys who were suspended indefinitely, I hope you do realize that Brady completely threw them under the bus. First he said he didn't even know them when he clearly did. Secondly he's remaining steadfast that they acted alone without any direction from him. I hope he's at least paying them well by means of a secondary arrangement.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,612
Reaction score
5,778
Points
1,249
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
BTW, for those of you who feel sorry for the two equipment guys who were suspended indefinitely, I hope you do realize that Brady completely threw them under the bus. First he said he didn't even know them when he clearly did. Secondly he's remaining steadfast that they acted alone without any direction from him. I hope he's at least paying them well by means of a secondary arrangement.

Yep, no question, Brady's fault. And them paying for it is just another in a long line of things that show Brady's true character.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
...IMO, I think they've been doing this since 2007 and the advantage they received from it was HUGE. I think it's much bigger than spygate.

They're lucky Seattle was so injured and handed them that SB because I think they're done winning SB's! Sure they'll probably still win their lousy division, but they aren't winning another SB.

Yep. I also believe they've been doing this a long time. If it weren't a big deal, there wouldn't be a rule. Deliberately and repeatedly breaking the rule is not behavior I expect from those we call Champions. I do not ever expect to hear again about how the Pats are "a class act."

Seattle had the game, deserved the game, blew it. Too bad.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,777
Reaction score
5,531
Points
848
As we (who remember) learned from Watergate:
It's not so much the original crime, but the coverup (or failure to cooperate) that brings the heat.

Actually, no, in this case the crime blows away the coverup. In sports, tampering with equipment is worse than repugnant.

The coverup didn't help but the punishment, imo, is too light for the crime, cooperation or not.
 
Top