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HCC 1 Year Holiday Reservations - Describe 12:01 a.m. Booking Experience

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I'm seriously considering joining HCC, and I'm in the process of doing my financial due diligence. As I do that, I'm also trying to find out more about other aspects of club membership.

I've read through almost every HCC post here, and I haven't seen this covered. I want to know what my chances are for getting my first choice property when I log on at 12:01 a.m. EST 1 year in advance and submit my reservation for my holiday week. I will primarily be interested in securing a ski-in/ski-out property for New Years, Spring Break, and Christmas (on a rotating basis b/c of club rules, of course).

Let's say I go for gold and try for the Beaver Creek Village condo for New Year's week, and six other people submit at that same time for that same property. I assume its sorted out by the computer in the milliseconds of timing the submit button with the actual time and internet traffic lag, etc. What has that been like for members booking a popular property on a popular holiday like New Year's?

Then, say I get beat on that, and I start going down my list only to find that someone has already gotten the 4 other ski-in/ski-out properties by submitting at 12:01 a.m. sharp. Has this happened to any of you? I would just hate to think that I might get completely closed out of a holiday booking at a ski property on a year when that holiday is rotated back around and I'm eligible for that holiday that year. The three holiday weeks mentioned above are the only weeks we'll have available to ski.

Based on your HCC experiences booking holidays one year out, do you think I would get closed out of securing one of the five HCC ski-in/ski-out properties for a given holiday? I'm assuming New Year's will be toughest, followed by Christmas, and then Spring Break.

Any insight or experiences any of you can share on this will be most helpful.

Take care,
LTFM
 

Bourne

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I'll bite.

Given my past experience with a New Year's week, I would say you have a 90%+ chance of getting a SKI week for the holiday's mentioned.

Reason being, there are multiple options. I would recommend keeping Option 1,2, and 3 ready in mind. One of the three is bound to work if you time the clock.
 
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vivalour

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I'm seriously considering joining HCC, and I'm in the process of doing my financial due diligence. As I do that, I'm also trying to find out more about other aspects of club membership.

I've read through almost every HCC post here, and I haven't seen this covered. I want to know what my chances are for getting my first choice property when I log on at 12:01 a.m. EST 1 year in advance and submit my reservation for my holiday week. I will primarily be interested in securing a ski-in/ski-out property for New Years, Spring Break, and Christmas (on a rotating basis b/c of club rules, of course).

Let's say I go for gold and try for the Beaver Creek Village condo for New Year's week, and six other people submit at that same time for that same property. I assume its sorted out by the computer in the milliseconds of timing the submit button with the actual time and internet traffic lag, etc. What has that been like for members booking a popular property on a popular holiday like New Year's?

Then, say I get beat on that, and I start going down my list only to find that someone has already gotten the 4 other ski-in/ski-out properties by submitting at 12:01 a.m. sharp. Has this happened to any of you? I would just hate to think that I might get completely closed out of a holiday booking at a ski property on a year when that holiday is rotated back around and I'm eligible for that holiday that year. The three holiday weeks mentioned above are the only weeks we'll have available to ski.

Based on your HCC experiences booking holidays one year out, do you think I would get closed out of securing one of the five HCC ski-in/ski-out properties for a given holiday? I'm assuming New Year's will be toughest, followed by Christmas, and then Spring Break.

Any insight or experiences any of you can share on this will be most helpful.

Take care,
LTFM

We are new HCC members and this is one of our main issues with HCC so far. We did not try to book ski weeks, but we did go after various beach locations for New Year's week. We lucked out and got our first choice, but that was after someone had booked and then dropped it. IMO, your luck may depend on split-second timing, manipulation skills and experience at beating the system. I can't help but suspect that some people make multiple bookings for the same time at more than one high demand location with the hope that one comes through for them. (Don't know if HCC can filter this out or not.) Since we have very limited vacation times, and most coincide with school holidays, this factor will determine whether or not we stay in the DC world at all.
 
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IMO, your luck may depend on split-second timing, manipulation skills and experience at beating the system.
That is a concern - I'm paying a good bit of money to depend on luck to get the reservations I want. If I follow this thought process all the way through, I end up thinking I should pass on HCC and just book through vrbo. With one 3 y.o. daughter and another on the way, a two bedroom will meet our needs for a long time to come. With vrbo, I won't have as nicely decorated unit, but it for sure will be during the week I want. Also, I could book a unit even closer to the slopes (several of HCC's ski-in/ski-out locations appear to be a pretty good walk to the slopes). And, I could coordinate my vrbo bookings better with my use of skymiles (assuring myself of using 25,000 miles per ticket instead of 50,000).

I can't help but suspect that some people make multiple bookings for the same time at more than one high demand location with the hope that one comes through for them. (Don't know if HCC can filter this out or not.)
I don't understand this - how do people make multiple bookings?

Since we have very limited vacation times, and most coincide with school holidays, this factor will determine whether or not we stay in the DC world at all.
This is huge for us as my wife is a school teacher, and I'm the CFO/General Counsel for a large independent school. Our only vacations will be during school holidays, but we are very flexible in the summer when I have two additional weeks that I can take at any time.

Bourne and Vivalour, thanks for the help.

-LTFM
 

pwrshift

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For those who must have a certain date, I suspect this will be a problem with DC's that have limited selections at a particular location. If there is only one location, once it's gone it's gone. And it would be very frustrating to have another 2 or 3 options that turned out to be milliseconds too late because you concentrated on getting option 1.

However, I suspect that many DC customers don't own TS and may not know how to play the reservation game.

Generally I have great holiday flexibility so I don't often get into this rat race. Closest I've had to this scramble is with Marriott and booking 4 weeks in a row with them from President's Week on ... but because I'm a multiple week owner and booking 4 weeks in a row it can be done 13 months ahead of the first check in date ... which means the other 3 weeks are even further out than 13 months ahead! A significant advantage to TS owners who know how to play the game.

But in this specific case there are 144 (half of the total) suites available so as long as you're among the first 144 callers you're happy. Still, there are a number of single unit owners who can only do it 12 months ahead that are upset over Marriott's reservation system which they feel is weighted in favour of their multiple week owners as part of their marketing plan to sell more weeks. However, it appears that DC's also have different tier levels where their best customers have advantages.
 

vivalour

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LastTrue:
Our solution was to join for a year and see, for real, how it all works. Summers offer a lot more choices of date and location, as long as you are willing to book far ahead. In the past, we have rented high season vacation properties too, usually by referral. They usually worked out well, esp. when packaged with flights.

The big advantage we see in a DC (esp. HCC) is that you are dealing with a known standard of quality and the places are spacious, often new, always clean, well maintained and well equipped for a family and friends (air matresses for extra kids, large appliances, washer & dryer). I don't want to go on vacation and clean the last occupant's gungy BBQ, which has happened with rentals.

So why not take a test drive for a year and see how it works out for you? I think HCC is still offering a 100% refund of membership (not fees though) if you decide it doesn't work out.

About the multiple bookings -- this is just my speculation -- or paranoia. Someone could get friends or extended family (who are also members, of course) to cooperate with them on doing multiple bookings. Again, just my speculation.
 
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Is this type of booking practice common for other DCs? I know that some have a drawing based on member submission of requests (i.e., you put in your top choices for a holiday and location, and then the DC fulfills those requests based on preference). I feel like the HCC system would benefit someone like me who plans far in advance and is willing to be up at midnight one year in advance, but I could see that process being a turn off for others.
 
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Steamboat Bill

We have had very positive experiences with HCC and holidays (it is starting to get tougher), but there is NO destination club that will guarantee a location on your narrow criteria.

Yes, you have an extremely good chance of getting exactly what you want with HCC, but NY and Christmas is ultra-desirable and spring break will depend on how many other HCC members have Spring Break the same week as you.

The only guarantee is a fixed week option (none exist in a DC) or rent via VRBO.

I think a HCC membership is still an awesome deal for people during the summer and also certain holidays, but your criteria is so narrow (ski-in/out) and NY/xmas/spring break that there is a possibility that you could not get your first choice for the week you want EVERY year.

I am a HUGE HCC cheerleader, but I don't recommend it for everyone. If you loosen your criteria, then I think HCC will work very well for you.

What do you typically spend on VRBO for rentals ($ per night) and let's see how that compares to the HCC cost.
 
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vivalour

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I feel like the HCC system would benefit someone like me who plans far in advance and is willing to be up at midnight one year in advance, but I could see that process being a turn off for others.

It's not a matter of advance planning and being up at midnight, but having to be up at midnight AND be able to work the system skillfully enough to get your choice(s). Admittedly, some TS owners have an edge on newbie DC owners when it comes to these booking skills. The system you describe sounds fairer than HCC's, imo.
 
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Steamboat Bill

This is one of the potential problems with HCC (note I said potential as I do not consider this a current problem...yet) as they sell more 1-2 week membership plans.

Most DCs offer 3-4 week plans and have a low member to home ratio and MANY of the members do not use all their allocated time. I think it is safe to assume that anyone joining HCC or any other DC with a 7-14 night plan will use 100% of their time.

HCC sells a lot of 15 and 25 night plans, but anyone considering a 7 night plan or 15 night plan and wants GUARANTEED ski-in/out on NY or xmas or Spring Break EVERY year may be in for a disappointment.
 

vivalour

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This is one of the potential problems with HCC (note I said potential as I do not consider this a current problem...yet) as they sell more 1-2 week membership plans.

HCC sells a lot of 15 and 25 night plans, but anyone considering a 7 night plan or 15 night plan and wants GUARANTEED ski-in/out on NY or xmas or Spring Break EVERY year may be in for a disappointment.

See above: the poster is asking about long-term holiday reservations one year in advance, which HCC does not offer under the standard 7-day and 15-day memberships.

The way I see it, under the current system it's posssible that someone with 25 days does not snag their first holiday choice ANY year!
 

seatrout

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Is it possible to REQUEST a location under HCC system.??
ie 1 1/2 year prior, and have a 1st request gets it.

Or is the system a mad dash at 12.01 am with atomic clock for the
holiday week as in Marriott ??
 

vivalour

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Is it possible to REQUEST a location under HCC system.??
ie 1 1/2 year prior, and have a 1st request gets it.

Or is the system a mad dash at 12.01 am with atomic clock for the
holiday week as in Marriott ??

No and yes.
 
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So why not take a test drive for a year and see how it works out for you? I think HCC is still offering a 100% refund of membership (not fees though) if you decide it doesn't work out.
Good suggestion - HCC does still promise 100% back if you resign in the first year.

I think a HCC membership is still an awesome deal for people during the summer and also certain holidays, but your criteria is so narrow (ski-in/out) and NY/xmas/spring break that there is a possibility that you could not get your first choice for the week you want EVERY year.
Steamboat Bill, I wouldn't expect to get my first choice property every year. As long as I could get a decent ski property (not necessarily ski-in/out) somewhere every year, I'd be fine with that. Are you thinking I may be completely out of luck at all the ski properties if I don't time my 12:01 a.m. selections right?

What do you typically spend on VRBO for rentals ($ per night) and let's see how that compares to the HCC cost.
I'm just getting back into skiing now that my family is ready to start taking one or two annual ski trips so I don't have any actual vrbo experience to compare. But, I checked vrbo for the 5 HCC ski-in/out locations (Snowmass Terrace House, Copper Mill Club, Keystone Red Hawk, Beaver Creek Village Hall, and Telluride Owl Meadows) for both New Year's and Spring Break. The nightly average for the five for NY's is $1,035 per night and for Spring Break it is $711. Of course, Beaver Creek at $1,910/$1,375 really skews the average. I also checked the rates for the same properties in a 2 bedroom (again, large enough to accomodate my family - the extra bedrooms would be a bonus to invite friends and family along with us). The average nightly rate for both holidays is $430, but drops to $382 per night if you take Beaver Creek out. There are some less expensive options that are actually closer to the slopes in some of those locations. Also, the flexibility with airfare is cost savings with vrbo not available with HCC.

The trouble I have with running HCC cost per night calculations is accounting for the eventuality that they go out of business in 3 years, 5 years, or 10 years. If I choose to leave, and they get two new members to replace me, I get 80% back. I can run numbers based on the fact that I know I don't want to get out before at least ten years. But if they close shop, the contract provides that the refund is available assets up to a maximum 60% refund. So, if they shut their doors in 5 years, and I have $70,000 paid in for a 35 night a year plan, the cost per night previously calculated based on opportunity cost and annual dues gets a +$160.00 a night add for my lost $28,000. I know that is part of the risk with this budding industry, and the flip side to that is I may be buying in to something that lasts 10+ years and has 4 times the properties available now for the same price I would be locking in by joining today.

It's not a matter of advance planning and being up at midnight, but having to be up at midnight AND be able to work the system skillfully enough to get your choice(s).
Do you mean literally the timing of pressing the submit button? Or are you talking about choosing which property to go after? Doesn't seem like there is much to work other than hitting the button at the right time.

I've asked Dan Moorhead at HCC for a reservation report listing the date and exact time all of their ski properties were booked for the weeks of Dec. 27, 2008, Mar. 14, 2008, and Dec. 28, 2007. That should give me a pretty good idea of what is going on with the different properties.

Thanks for all the help here.

Take care,
LTFM
 

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LTFM - Sounds like you need to go the VRBO route to guarantee your dates. However, keep in mind that only about half of the HCC members can book holiday reservations one year out.

I hope that HCC will eventually go to a lottery system for the holidays as they do for new releases.
 
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I hope that HCC will eventually go to a lottery system for the holidays as they do for new releases.
If HCC did that, my chances would be even worse to get a ski property on a specific week. If I thought HCC was going to go to that, my decision would be easy not to join HCC. Do you or others think there is a high degree of probability that they will go to a lottery?

Thanks,
LTFM
 

pwrshift

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I agree that a lottery system would not be an incentive for me to join. This might be a temporary solution for a brand new high demand property like the new Hawaii one with a private golf course for the first year, but long term I don't like it. The 12.01 a.m. system has its faults just like the floating timeshare system, but unless you spring for the Affiliate level you can't book a Holiday week anyways, and then only one a year.
 

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LTFM/Pwrshift - Ironic as one of my issues was the reservation system when I joined. I hate the current idea of being the first to click my mouse...

I'd much prefer a lottery system to what we have now. Personally, I have better things to do then hope my click of the mouse happens at the right instant for a particular property. I would also think that it is not always possible for all people to have access to a computer to make the reservations at an instant in time. I've also booked via phone and email so I would think that some people prefer these methods too.

The nice thing about the lottery is that you can put in your requests early and then the central computer software does the work. A lot could be deciphered from this...maybe coming up to the reservation point the computer puts out automated emails with your probability of attaining a specific reservation and you could modify your plan accordingly. Example: For Xmas, you see that you are one of 38 people that wants XYZ, but ABC only has 10 people requesting it...that may sway your decision to put in for a close 2nd or re-prioritize your desires all together.

In any case, I think the system to book high demand locations/times ought to be equitable and transparent. Delineating who gets what when by the timing of a click in a single medium is unpractical and destined for failure as some peope view, true or not, that others have an advantage.

The fog and friction of computer networks, power outages, and sytem abnomolies all add to a very low but plausible probability that at some juncture there will be members that are slighted an opportunity that is beyond there control. That would be deflating for me.

Do I think HCC will change their system of reserving holidays? Yes. Will it be as I described, likely not but I would gather that I am not too far off from what we'll eventually see.
 

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LTFM,

I joined HCC last July so this December was my first attempt at a Christmas/New Years holiday (for December 2008). Although I did make the reservation just after midnight, I am by no means an expert with the reservation system. That said, I booked my first choice ski location without difficulty. In fact, I've made nine reservations to date and have never had the situation arise where I was "beaten at the buzzer".:rofl:
 
S

Steamboat Bill

I think most timeshare p[eople are used to setting their atomic clock and it was "my idea" to change HCC to EST and add an official clock on their web site.

Most DC people are lazy and are not interested in logging in 365 days in advance at 12:00:01 to snag a reservation.

I also think a lottery is "most fair" as it eliminates any competitive advantages or trickery.

Here is how it could be set up:

1. Choose a hot week like Christmas
2. List your top 5-10 resorts
3. Let the computer sort the matches with full randomization
 
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I think most timeshare p[eople are used to setting their atomic clock and it was "my idea" to change HCC to EST and add an official clock on their web site.

Most DC people are lazy and are not interested in logging in 365 days in advance at 12:00:01 to snag a reservation.

I also think a lottery is "most fair" as it eliminates any competitive advantages or trickery.

Here is how it could be set up:

1. Choose a hot week like Christmas
2. List your top 5-10 resorts
3. Let the computer sort the matches with full randomization

Under this scenario, would you have an equal chance of not getting a property at all as you would getting your 1 - 10 properties? Are you really saying that in the name of "fairness," you're willing to chance not getting a property for a desired week determined solely by computer randomization? The current system awards being proactive and gives the member some control as to what property they get. I can't believe someone would want to give that up in the name of supposed fairness. Why craft a system around and in view of the fact that a lot of members are lazy?

This kind of sounds like a free market, capitalism vs. socialism debate. A lot of people think a socialist society is better because it is "fairer." I guess I happen to like my DC's like a like my economic systems - keep it free and reward individual effort. (Steamboat Bill - I'm not accusing you of advocating socialism at all, your argument for a lottery just reminded me so much of some of the classic arguments for socialism I couldn't help but make the comparison.)

Texdoc, thanks for the report on your experiences. That is encouraging.

Take care,
LTFM
 
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LTFM - I hear what you're saying. The HCC system would definitely benefit someone like me. I can plan well enough to know where I want to go a year in advance and plan to be up at midnight a year in advance, but I think that I'm in the minority.

DCs are supposed to take the stress out of travel and travel planning and that has been my personal experience. I think the 12:01 system would be a turn-off for many who are unaccustomed to the timeshare or frequent flyer mileage redemption world.
 

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Most DC people are lazy and are not interested in logging in 365 days in advance at 12:00:01 to snag a reservation.

I also think a lottery is "most fair" as it eliminates any competitive advantages or trickery.

I wouldn't agree that most DC members are lazy (maybe rich and spoiled, though:D). I think we DCers need quite a bit of initiative to find/research DCs, pay the bills, and organize ourselves to use the system!

I also love capitalism and competition but would like to know the options for a more equitable (i.e. equality of opportunity) system of making DC bookings that eliminates possible "trickery". Maybe a lottery isn't best, but it makes chance/luck the universal determinant of who gets what, when. I admit that we haven't been HCC members long enough to really be critical, and did manage to get what we wanted on two bookings, imo a combination of pure luck and good planning. :shrug:
 
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I also love capitalism and competition but would like to know the options for a more equitable (i.e. equality of opportunity) system of making DC bookings that eliminates possible "trickery". Maybe a lottery isn't best, but it makes chance/luck the universal determinant of who gets what, when.
I guess I fail to see how the current system contains "trickery." Since I haven't used the system, I'm not saying it's not there, I just don't understand how it's there.

It seems like the current system contains an element of both reward for effort (staying up at midnight 365 days in advance) and luck (pushing the button at the right time, internet lag, etc.). To the extent anyone can choose to plan ahead and stay up and everyone is subject to internet anomalies, the system seems to give a level playing field and accordingly, is "fair."

-LTFM
 
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