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New DC Trust Points Owner [Posts moved.]

GrumpyDude

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... I'm a new Marriott DC owner having just purchased on a trip to Maui. I think they made a decent deal for me in tossing the $3,500 retail value of my 7 night rental bought wholesale @ $2,500 for a Napili Tower OF Studio. So our vacation $$ plus were applied to the purchase along with 20% off for their 30th anniv. special. It got my price/point into the mid $8 range.

I'm still in my 10 day review window. I had been eyeing Annual 2BR OF Lahaina/Napili Tower listings in the $28k - $35k range. Maui Ocean Club (MM1) is where we **really** like to go. Coming to an agreement, waiting out ROFR, new points system allegedly ( sales pitch?! ) making it more difficult for weeks availability, etc. I don't know.

I also have 15K WorldMark points that we've owned for years and have been finding it increasingly difficult to get into even the West Maui area with those. I paid for a room this year because it was out 20th and wanted to be sure what we were getting! I've also got a Diamond Sampler I have yet to use. I had bought that based on their Club Select system and their telling me I could deposit 2 WorldMark weeks in exchange for 7500 Diamond points each year via Club Select. While this sounds good I'm leery of a program that could be discontinued at will leaving me with a Diamond ownership worthless on its own without the Club Select capability to convert WorldMark weeks to Diamond.

With that in mind we chose to go with the Marriott system. I'll go use my Diamond Sampler and tell them no thanks, and likely try to sell the WorldMark points.

I'm still not sure though if the direct DC purchase was the best decision over picking up a floating week resale. I may start a new thread... I'm sure I'll get lots of opinions!

[Moderator Note: Good idea to break this out to a new thread, GrumpyDude! :) ]
 
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puckmanfl

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Grumpy

how many points did you purchase...??? you will need at least 5000 to even be in the running for Maui new towers..and this would be GV or IV. This is if there is availability... Go back to your rep and have him do a test drive for availbilty at Maui....These 5000 will cost over $40K... + 2250 MF's per year. If MF's stay constant you pay over $85K in 20 year...If a week in Maui cost $4000 rental you go 20 years before you break even!!!!

Take Home point $$$ is the best point system...

If you want Maui buy the resale..if it doesn't pass buy another..
 

GregT

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Thanks for the info! I'm a new Marriott DC owner having just purchased on a trip to Maui. I think they made a decent deal for me in tossing the $3,500 retail value of my 7 night rental bought wholesale @ $2,500 for a Napili Tower OF Studio. So our vacation $$ plus were applied to the purchase along with 20% off for their 30th anniv. special. It got my price/point into the mid $8 range.

I'm still in my 10 day review window. I had been eyeing Annual 2BR OF Lahaina/Napili Tower listings in the $28k - $35k range. Maui Ocean Club (MM1) is where we **really** like to go. Coming to an agreement, waiting out ROFR, new points system allegedly ( sales pitch?! ) making it more difficult for weeks availability, etc. I don't know.

I also have 15K WorldMark points that we've owned for years and have been finding it increasingly difficult to get into even the West Maui area with those. I paid for a room this year because it was out 20th and wanted to be sure what we were getting! I've also got a Diamond Sampler I have yet to use. I had bought that based on their Club Select system and their telling me I could deposit 2 WorldMark weeks in exchange for 7500 Diamond points each year via Club Select. While this sounds good I'm leery of a program that could be discontinued at will leaving me with a Diamond ownership worthless on its own without the Club Select capability to convert WorldMark weeks to Diamond.

With that in mind we chose to go with the Marriott system. I'll go use my Diamond Sampler and tell them no thanks, and likely try to sell the WorldMark points.

I'm still not sure though if the direct DC purchase was the best decision over picking up a floating week resale. I may start a new thread... I'm sure I'll get lots of opinions!

GrumpyDude,

Welcome to TUG and welcome to the Marriott system! I'm glad you enjoyed your time at MOC, it's a great property.

You may wish to think hard if your recent points purchase (even at the subsidized price) is going to accomplish your travel goals. It sounds like you purchased 3,500 points (which will be $1,675 in MFs next year) and that you will need more to visit MOC. A 1BR OF in new towers is 5,675, so you need to rent 2,175 more for a 1BR -- or 5,175 more for a 2BR. That will be an additional $1,100 - $2,600 in rental fees on top of your MFs.

If MOC is your destination, you may wish to buy that 2BR OF in the new towers. I know they've cleared ROFR recently at $27K. If you want summer travel, it's not simple for a single week owner to get a summer reservation, but worth considering.

Worldmark is also getting tougher to get the prime times. Throw away days appear to be more common these days for the prime reservations.

Please let us know when you typically travel to Maui, and maybe we can provide some useful feedback on Marriott weeks versus points.

Best,

Greg
 

NYFLTRAVELER

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Thanks for the info! I'm a new Marriott DC owner having just purchased on a trip to Maui. I think they made a decent deal for me in tossing the $3,500 retail value of my 7 night rental bought wholesale @ $2,500 for a Napili Tower OF Studio. So our vacation $$ plus were applied to the purchase along with 20% off for their 30th anniv. special. It got my price/point into the mid $8 range.

I'm still in my 10 day review window. I had been eyeing Annual 2BR OF Lahaina/Napili Tower listings in the $28k - $35k range. Maui Ocean Club (MM1) is where we **really** like to go. Coming to an agreement, waiting out ROFR, new points system allegedly ( sales pitch?! ) making it more difficult for weeks availability, etc. I don't know.

I also have 15K WorldMark points that we've owned for years and have been finding it increasingly difficult to get into even the West Maui area with those. I paid for a room this year because it was out 20th and wanted to be sure what we were getting! I've also got a Diamond Sampler I have yet to use. I had bought that based on their Club Select system and their telling me I could deposit 2 WorldMark weeks in exchange for 7500 Diamond points each year via Club Select. While this sounds good I'm leery of a program that could be discontinued at will leaving me with a Diamond ownership worthless on its own without the Club Select capability to convert WorldMark weeks to Diamond.

With that in mind we chose to go with the Marriott system. I'll go use my Diamond Sampler and tell them no thanks, and likely try to sell the WorldMark points.

I'm still not sure though if the direct DC purchase was the best decision over picking up a floating week resale. I may start a new thread... I'm sure I'll get lots of opinions!

What was your reasoning for purchasing the DC points directly from Marriott?
 

GrumpyDude

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It was the flexibility of the DC points directly between the Marriott properties and the Rewards Points conversion capability. I understand there are many limitations picking these up resale. Between that and the subsidizing kicked in, we pulled the trigger.

We kicked in some extra $$ for a one time 3500 points to "kick start the roll" if you know what I mean. But I may use them up if I go get a 2 BR with the family next year!

Obviously I'm second guessing being on here!
 

puckmanfl

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good afternoon...

Grumpy...

Its only flexible if there is availability.... you are going to be very disappointed if you are looking for OF summer availability at MM1... I did a sweep recently, not much doing..there were some IV's open but not much else...

not to be a scrooge, but exchanging for MR is a poor financial use of ones timeshare...

the value just isn't there... you will be lucky just to recoup your MF's

please don't misunderstand I love my Marriott timeshares . The DC point program for Legacy (pre 2010) is an ADD ON, not a stand alone product....

be very careful before your recision period ends..Greg and I are not confident that you will be able to achieve your Maui goals with this purchase. You might with the one time 3500 pts but not all the other years...

look at the point charts and figure out where you can go with 3500 pts????

you would just be better off doing cash rental of Maui for the next 20 years... you would break even
 

puckmanfl

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grumpy


don't second guess being here..the gang is trying to help!!!!
 

GrumpyDude

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GrumpyDude,

Welcome to TUG and welcome to the Marriott system! I'm glad you enjoyed your time at MOC, it's a great property.

You may wish to think hard if your recent points purchase (even at the subsidized price) is going to accomplish your travel goals. It sounds like you purchased 3,500 points (which will be $1,675 in MFs next year) and that you will need more to visit MOC. A 1BR OF in new towers is 5,675, so you need to rent 2,175 more for a 1BR -- or 5,175 more for a 2BR. That will be an additional $1,100 - $2,600 in rental fees on top of your MFs.

If MOC is your destination, you may wish to buy that 2BR OF in the new towers. I know they've cleared ROFR recently at $27K. If you want summer travel, it's not simple for a single week owner to get a summer reservation, but worth considering.

Worldmark is also getting tougher to get the prime times. Throw away days appear to be more common these days for the prime reservations.

Please let us know when you typically travel to Maui, and maybe we can provide some useful feedback on Marriott weeks versus points.

Best,

Greg

Thanks for the feedback, Greg! You are correct that we went with 3500 points and yes, I've kind of bounced those figures around too browsing the point exchange site and all. Your comment that summer weeks are difficult for a single week owner is kind of in line with what the rep said helping shape our decision to go with the DC purchase.

Our Anniversary the week after Labor Day is our "typical" desired time to go and MOC is our first choice. Our second desired time would be whale season, say early Jan and into Feb. A 1 BR would be fine for us, but we do occasionally take family with us so a 2nd BR comes into the picture then. OF is obviously first choice, but OV is still real good there at MOC! We are also spoiled and prefer the new towers. No kids here, so prime summer time is not a concern for us typically. We prefer to stay away from the crowds, anyway! Don't go to the river Memorial Day Weekend, etc.!

The other consideration in going with the points was the flexibility in using them elsewhere in the Marriott system(s). Direct use within the Villas, and conversion to rewards for Hotels. I'm not sure how useful that will be yet, though.

You know, I thought based on touring MOC some time ago (before DC came out) that Weeks owners could use their ownership directly within what they called the "Villa System" and that if they wanted to go elsewhere that obviously required II. They also said then that they could be converted to Rewards points for Hotel use. Reading recent posts here though I seem to understand that use at your home resort is the only direct use and that even other Marriott "villas" require II. The downside to II is that you don't know what view category you are going to wind up in. At least in my experience...

I also understood that buying a Resale week (other than from Marriott's resale site) that those cannot be converted to Rewards points.

I've kind of been off in my Worldmark world for years and systems are evolving! I'm trying to come up to speed in a short time and do some due diligence on this decision. I really appreciate all the input!
 
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GrumpyDude

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grumpy


don't second guess being here..the gang is trying to help!!!!

No, not at all! Sorry I wasn't clear on that... Second guessing the decision on the purchase; or you could say looking to the gang here for input as a form of due diligence!

I truly appreciate the time everyone here takes to help!
 

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good aternoon....

Grumpy...

no matter how you slice it..you are trading..either in II or DC which is essentially an internal trading system....of course, the rep will tell you that II stinks... he is selling a new product. 4 years ago the same rep said II is great... you are not purchasing a reservation system..but currency in a trading system... remember MVCD sold weeks for 25 years before 2010..people actually own these weeks.

Every timeshare system is TRADING... not a direct reservation system...
 

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good afternoon...

Grumpy...

Its only flexible if there is availability.... you are going to be very disappointed if you are looking for OF summer availability at MM1... I did a sweep recently, not much doing..there were some IV's open but not much else...

Puckman... I certainly see your point in regarding any timeshare in that way. On your comment above re: summer availability at MM1... Was that through II or the DC system? I presume it was DC since you could see view category. I know I may be a bit confusing my referring to it in II terms!

If your or anyone else has a chance to scan availability the 2nd week of Sept. 2015 (the week including 9/10) it might give me an idea of what's out there a year out.
 

SueDonJ

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... If your or anyone else has a chance to scan availability the 2nd week of Sept. 2015 (the week including 9/10) it might give me an idea of what's out there a year out.

Moderator Note: I'm sorry, but TUG Posting Rules do not allow ad-like posts in the public forums, and posting the availability of specific intervals constitutes an ad-like post. Please, TUGgers who wish to respond to GrumpyDude's request should do so in a PM or email. Thanks!
 

JIMinNC

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GrumpyDude,

You price/point in the "mid-$8 range" is a good price for a straight points purchase from Marriott, but there are ways to do a bit better, still from Marriott. We recently completed a purchase of a similar quantity, but at a net cost of just under $7/point. We bought a resale Marriott Barony Beach Club Silver Gardenview from Marriott Resales for $3300 (worth 1625 points in DC) and then bought 1750 Points for the then standard rate of $12.12. We received a $2,000 credit for the Encore package we were traveling on, so our total net cost was around $23K for 3,375 points.

Now because our week is Silver, but our maintenance fee is the same as higher point value Gold/Platinum weeks, our total MF is about $400 more per year than those same 3,375 points would be in a pure points package. But it will take 25 to 40 years for the higher MF to offset our upfront savings (depending upon whether you calculate using the full $12 points cost or a discounted point price like you received).

You may want to explore these hybrid/combo approaches from Marriott to see if there is one that will give you 3,500 points for considerably less than you paid or perhaps you could find one that could net you more than 3,500 points for the same amount you paid.
 

puckmanfl

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good afternoon

Grumpy...

before Sue put the hammer down:whoopie::whoopie::whoopie:

I did a sweep for you...
sent you results in a PM...
you will be pleased... :whoopie::whoopie::whoopie:
 

GregT

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SueDonJ

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Puck, way to slip one past the goalie! :clap:

I am watching. :cool:

(No worries, as long as the details aren't posted. Puck, you're a good TUGger for searching different options, much less lazy than me! I sent a PM asking Grumpy to tell me all the details of exactly what he wants.)
 

BocaBoy

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Our Anniversary the week after Labor Day is our "typical" desired time to go and MOC is our first choice. Our second desired time would be whale season, say early Jan and into Feb.

You should be able to get reservations at MOC the week after Labor Day if you search early enough. That is not a high season for Hawaii because kids are back in school and it has not yet turned cold on the mainland. January/February is much, much harder--in fact, in my experience it is even harder than the summer. This is because much of the summer demand is one-week family stays while in January/February there are many more multi-week owners stringing together several weeks in a row. We do that ourselves for 2-4 weeks, but there are a surprising number who own 6-8 (or more) weeks and spend most of the winter there.
 
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GrumpyDude

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You should be able to get reservations at MOC the week after Labor Day if you search early enough. That is not a high season for Hawaii because kids are back in school and it has not yet turned cold on the mainland. January/February is much, much harder--in fact, in my experience it is even harder than the summer. This is because much of the summer demand is one-week family stays while in January/February there are many more multi-week owners stringing together several weeks in a row. We do that ourselves for 2-4 weeks, but there are a surprising number who own 6-8 (or more) weeks and spend most of the winter there.

Interesting, Boca! I hadn't thought of people full on snowbirding it there! There's a lot more money there than I!

The sales rep seemed to think we could squeeze a week in that time frame easy enough, but... considering the source!

good afternoon

Grumpy...

before Sue put the hammer down:whoopie::whoopie::whoopie:

I did a sweep for you...
sent you results in a PM...
you will be pleased... :whoopie::whoopie::whoopie:

Thanks for that Puck. Good news in that, indeed. Goes along with Boca's observations, too.

Moderator Note: I'm sorry, but TUG Posting Rules do not allow ad-like posts in the public forums, and posting the availability of specific intervals constitutes an ad-like post. Please, TUGgers who wish to respond to GrumpyDude's request should do so in a PM or email. Thanks!

Sorry about that, Susan! Would requesting someone to PM me a similar range scan be OK?

I hope so... I'm just curious what Jan/Feb looks like currently. I know it's only 3-4 months out at this point, but just curious. If someone has a sec to PM me on that I'd appreciate it.

Just trying to get some idea of usefulness of this thing. It's like buying a car without being able to test drive it!
 

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good evening

puck is at it again....
sent you PM

in future send me PM's and I will check for you...
 

GrumpyDude

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On similar thought... I understand buying a resale week, I'm limited to its specific size single week use and going through II. This would leave me completely out of the DC system as I currently understand.

I also understand buying a resale from Marriott has MRP value (FWIW!). The Marriott resale site doesn't mention anything about DC point utilization or value. Their office number says their closed even though I'm calling within their outgoing messages stated office hours, so no info there!

If I stay with the DC system, can open market resale points be added to ones ownership?

Along those lines, does Marriott contact owners with "discounted" points availability to add to their ownership? This is how we went from 6k to 15k over the years with Worldmark.

I know, a lot of questions there... Sorry!
 

Bill4728

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On similar thought... I understand buying a resale week, I'm limited to its specific size single week use and going through II. This would leave me completely out of the DC system as I currently understand.

I also understand buying a resale from Marriott has MRP value (FWIW!). The Marriott resale site doesn't mention anything about DC point utilization or value. Their office number says their closed even though I'm calling within their outgoing messages stated office hours, so no info there!

If I stay with the DC system, can open market resale points be added to ones ownership?

Along those lines, does Marriott contact owners with "discounted" points availability to add to their ownership? This is how we went from 6k to 15k over the years with Worldmark.

I know, a lot of questions there... Sorry!
With many Marriott resale weeks you can buy a 2 bd unit that "lock-off" into a 1 bd and a studio unit. So The year you want to bring extra people you use the whole 2 bd unit but the year it is just the two of you just stay in the 1 bd side and deposit the studio into II and exchange. Is it as easy as the DC NO but you can get great weeks for your studio with II.

We find that we can travel in the fall and find that we almost never use the DC to get into Hawaii. We use our other TSs and can get really nice weeks in Hawaii with them via II. The only negative is we do not get the best views as exchangers.

You may also wish to consider westin. The resale week at some of their resorts are treated just like developer weeks. In fact a unit at the westin in Phoenix can use points to go to Maui or Kauai really easily during the fall. You'd spend somewhere around $15K But since it would be AZ and not Hawaii the MFs would be 1/2 of buying a westin in hawaii.

Hope some of this helps
 

JIMinNC

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The Marriott resale site doesn't mention anything about DC point utilization or value. Their office number says their closed even though I'm calling within their outgoing messages stated office hours, so no info there!

Marriott doesn't really actively promote the combo resale week/points purchase option, I found out about it on TUG and asked during a presentation and it was offered.

This link is to a site maintained by a Tugger that shows points values for most weeks/seasons/views in the system.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av7ha9BaTYbEdG5qZV9leWJHX0ExOEl4UkNmLW9SUVE#gid=5

In most cases the points value (what you get for enrolling the week and electing points) is about 10% or so less than the points required to book the same week through the DC. That's the "skim" some talk about here.

So if you buy a resale week from Marriott Resales that is worth 1925 points, you would then have to buy 2000 points in the DC (you must buy an equal amount of points, but only in 250-point increments) and would have a total of 3925 points in years whenever you elect points for your week. You could also opt to use the week through the weeks system or II, in which case for that year you would only have 2000 DC points.
 

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See my comments in red below.

On similar thought... I understand buying a resale week, I'm limited to its specific size single week use and going through II. This would leave me completely out of the DC system as I currently understand. That is correct, no path to DC by purchasing a resale week on the secondary market post June 2010.

I also understand buying a resale from Marriott has MRP value (FWIW!). The Marriott resale site doesn't mention anything about DC point utilization or value. Their office number says their closed even though I'm calling within their outgoing messages stated office hours, so no info there! The only way (with the one potential caveat mentioned below) to get DC membership via a MVC resale purchase, is to buy a week + buy points at $12.24/pt in an equal or greater quantity than what points the week is assigned. As an example, you buy a week worth 1500 DC points + you buy 1500 DC points at $12.24/pt, they will allow you to enroll the week to have the ability to have an annual total of 3000 points available to you (1500 annually from your points and 1500 if and when you elect to turn your week into points). All that said, there has been some posts about MVC allowing a purchase of an Aruba week through MVC Resales to be enrolled in the DC without the purchase of an equivalent quantity of points. Not sure if anybody has actually done this to prove that it could be done, but there has been a post or two on the topic.

If I stay with the DC system, can open market resale points be added to ones ownership? Yes, you can add a resale points purchase down the road....but I would recommend if you go in this direction, to amend your MVC points purchase to 1500 points (a Base Interest) and rent the rest that you need. That approach would save you a lot of upfront $$ and still allow you access to all the points you need via the point rental market.

Along those lines, does Marriott contact owners with "discounted" points availability to add to their ownership? This is how we went from 6k to 15k over the years with Worldmark. I have never heard of them doing this, but its early in the life cycle of the MVC point product, so who knows what the future may bring.

I know, a lot of questions there... Sorry!
 
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m61376

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Keep in mind the final date for rescinding- and if you aren't absolutely certain you did the right thing the day before, then rescind. You can always buy after, but can be stuck with a very expensive mistake if you later decide that those points won't do what you expected, or are too expensive a way of getting what you want.

Since you are not traveling with a family, might you consider an OF in the original towers? lacking the full kitchen, I hear there are some killer views, and the price is much cheaper. Just throwing out the option for reconsideration perhaps.
 

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Today's The Day!

Well, the 24th is my final review day and I want to say thanks to all who have helped me with my questions; with a special shout out to Puck!

I'm really leaning towards resale at this point, but still not sure DC or a Week. If I choose to stay with my purchase I am at least going to use my Marriott Premier CC and get a big ol' pile of MRP's off it; woo... hoo... maybe... no...? Not floating it beyond any billing cycles on the CC of course!

Based on what has recently cleared ROFR, it looks like I could pick up somewhere in the neighborhood of 2k more DC's (5500) for around 7k to 10k less. That is also paying about the same in MF's as a fixed OF 2BdLk, but having to bank or borrow to get into one. That would regularly get me into the 1Bd OF which is what we would want regularly; and only needing to rent a small handful if we went peak.

I guess one question I forgot to put out there is if anyone knows if there is anything you CAN'T do with resale DC points that you can with developer bought points; or restrictions on resale DC points. I presume it's primarily MRP conversion, but curious if there's anything else I'm not aware of in there and if its really important to me or not.

I presume I could buy resales in whatever (250 based) blocks I could negotiate with sellers, being sure buy the same anniv. month, right? Anyone have any thoughts on the best anniv. month? I see significantly more Jan's out there than anything else on Redweek...

Thanks again all...
 
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