• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Marriott announces rewards plans [Linking MR / Starwood Preferred Guest Accounts]

melroseman

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
133
Reaction score
6
Points
228
Location
Chicago Area
This is a pretty major change. It is true that theoretically timeshare points were supposed to be treated differently, but in reality points were points. There is still no distinction on Marriott's website, and my 650,000 (including many MVC related) are not separated into "buckets." If this is happening, I trust it will happen going forward.

I wonder if we can get definitive information. Not doubting Pacheco18's second-hand info, but word directly from Marriott would be helpful...
 

pacheco18

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
1,205
Reaction score
0
Points
246
Location
Tucson
This is a pretty major change. It is true that theoretically timeshare points were supposed to be treated differently, but in reality points were points. There is still no distinction on Marriott's website, and my 650,000 (including many MVC related) are not separated into "buckets." If this is happening, I trust it will happen going forward.

I wonder if we can get definitive information. Not doubting Pacheco18's second-hand info, but word directly from Marriott would be helpful...

The info is from my Marriott voa. He knows everything and asks if he doesn't. He has been with Marriott 20 years. I consider it definitive. We won't know until someone tries to convert the points in the timeshare bucket to SPG points but I am not inclined to try.
 

Fasttr

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
6,260
Reaction score
3,401
Points
498
Location
Connecticut
Resorts Owned
Marriott's Grande Ocean (Enrolled)
MVC Trust Points
The info is from my Marriott voa. He knows everything and asks if he doesn't. He has been with Marriott 20 years. I consider it definitive. We won't know until someone tries to convert the points in the timeshare bucket to SPG points but I am not inclined to try.

Can you ask your VOA if, assuming what he says is true, when using MR points for a single night stay at a Marriott hotel, or a travel package as examples, if you will have the ability to indicate from which bucket of points you wish to dip into as payment. If they are tracking the buckets, it only seems logical you can choose how/when to use your buckets.

Also, as a follow up, say you use your MR points that came from trading in your MVC week to purchase a travel package, and then later want to use that travel package certificate at a MVC resort. Will their system be able to track that usage all the way through and deny that usage at an MVC resort?

Seems like this would be a logistical nightmare to attempt to control all the potential nuances of this.
 

Pat H

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,469
Reaction score
67
Points
433
Location
Sun City Hilton Head
Resorts Owned
Brigantine
One of my favorite benefits from SPG points is the 5000 bonus miles for transferring SPG points to AA miles. Recent promo from AA gave an additional 20% bonus.
 

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
4,423
Reaction score
1,240
Points
399
Location
Cirencester UK
Can you ask your VOA if, assuming what he says is true, when using MR points for a single night stay at a Marriott hotel, or a travel package as examples, if you will have the ability to indicate from which bucket of points you wish to dip into as payment. If they are tracking the buckets, it only seems logical you can choose how/when to use your buckets.

Also, as a follow up, say you use your MR points that came from trading in your MVC week to purchase a travel package, and then later want to use that travel package certificate at a MVC resort. Will their system be able to track that usage all the way through and deny that usage at an MVC resort?

Seems like this would be a logistical nightmare to attempt to control all the potential nuances of this.
Surely, Marriott will not appliy this retrospectively?
And one would hope that if Marriott are now tracking the source of points and will be applying usage restrictions, we as members will also be able to see our points / source breakdown?
 

pacheco18

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
1,205
Reaction score
0
Points
246
Location
Tucson
Can you ask your VOA if, assuming what he says is true, when using MR points for a single night stay at a Marriott hotel, or a travel package as examples, if you will have the ability to indicate from which bucket of points you wish to dip into as payment. If they are tracking the buckets, it only seems logical you can choose how/when to use your buckets.

Also, as a follow up, say you use your MR points that came from trading in your MVC week to purchase a travel package, and then later want to use that travel package certificate at a MVC resort. Will their system be able to track that usage all the way through and deny that usage at an MVC resort?

Seems like this would be a logistical nightmare to attempt to control all the potential nuances of this.

I have asked my VOA the following two questions:

Can I as an owner see my two buckets of points and how they are divided?

When I use points for a hotel stay may I direct from which bucket they are taken?


Here is his response

You will have to ask these two questions of Marriott Rewards. This information is part of the internal systems that Marriott uses. If you check the Marriott Rewards web site, the point balance may look different than it always has.

The points are not in two buckets. They are all your points and are in one place. The only reason for this change is internal. The system now differentiates where the points come from for the purposes of dealing with SPG regarding points that come from weeks. That way they won’t be transferred inadvertently to Starwood points. Other than that, there is no difference what you can use Marriott Reward points for, other than possibly booking villas points that come from villas.

Check the Marriott Reward web site to see what it shows.
 
Last edited:

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
4,423
Reaction score
1,240
Points
399
Location
Cirencester UK
I have just checked my account.
My Rewards are shown by type
Hotel Stay
Bonus
Rewards
Events
Transfer
Badge
This may well be new, but to be honest I have probably never really looked before so I am not too sure.
With a recent Travel Package purchase, I have just about used up all the 2.5 million points I had so the latest changes will have limited impact on me however it pans out but we shall see.
 

Werner Weiss

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
802
Reaction score
38
Points
388
Marriott has an excellent FAQ about account linking, status match, points transfer, earning/redeeming points, and related subjects:

http://members.marriott.com/faq/

The FAQ uses the names Rewards and SPG to refer to the two programs. That makes sense because Rewards comes in two versions — Marriott Rewards and The Ritz-Carlton Rewards — which are really the same program, but branded in two ways.

Here's that the FAQ has about points earned through the two timeshare companies:

Can I transfer points I earned through an interest in Vistana™ Signature Experiences or Marriott Vacation Club®?

Points earned through an interest in Vistana Signature Experiences or Marriott Vacation Club may not be transferred between SPG and Rewards.​

I have theory why Marriott needed to impose this restriction.

Marriott Vacation Club (MVC) and Vistana Signature Experiences (VSE) are two entirely separate companies, although both license brands from Marriott International. MVC licenses Marriott and Ritz-Carlton for vacation ownership. VSE licenses Sheraton and Westin (which are now owned by Marriott International) for timeshares.

MVC and VSE both have long-term contracts to use Interval International (II) as their exclusive, official exchange company for cross-company exchanges, with II integrated into both programs.

Interval Leisure Group owns II and VSE, but that's not a factor here.

Many MVC owners have the option to receive Rewards points through their ownership interest — by turning in an ownership week or Destination Points. My understanding is that many VSE owners have a similar option to receive SPG Starpoints.

It is now possible to transfer points between Rewards accounts and SPG accounts. That's a wonderful option, given that the newly combined Marriott International has around 5,700 hotels.

However, if points received through timeshare interests could be used to book stays at other timeshares, Marriott International would effectively be a timeshare exchange company. The "clean" way to prevent this is by imposing the restriction in the FAQ — even though this also prevents other point redemptions (such as not being able to use MVC ownership to stay at a W Hotel).

There have been interesting questions raised in this thread about "buckets" of points. My guess — and this is only a guess — is that points from timeshare ownership are automatically used first toward hotel stays. So the transfer restriction would only come into play if fewer points in the balance were earned from other sources (hotel stays, credit card, bonuses) than what someone is trying to transfer. That would be the straightforward way.
 
Last edited:

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,376
Reaction score
18,940
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Marriott has an excellent FAQ about account linking, status match, points transfer, earning/redeeming points, and related subjects:

http://members.marriott.com/faq/

The FAQ uses the names Rewards and SPG to refer to the two programs. That makes sense because Rewards comes in two versions — Marriott Rewards and The Ritz-Carlton Rewards — which are really the same program, but branded in two ways.

Here's that the FAQ has about points earned through the two timeshare companies:

Can I transfer points I earned through an interest in Vistana™ Signature Experiences or Marriott Vacation Club®?

Points earned through an interest in Vistana Signature Experiences or Marriott Vacation Club may not be transferred between SPG and Rewards.​

I have theory why Marriott needed to impose this restriction.

Marriott Vacation Club (MVC) and Vistana Signature Experiences (VSE) are two entirely separate companies, although both license brands from Marriott International. MVC licenses Marriott and Ritz-Carlton for vacation ownership. VSE licenses Sheraton and Westin (which are now owned by Marriott International) for timeshares.

MVC and VSE both have long-term contracts to use Interval International (II) as their exclusive, official exchange company for cross-company exchanges, with II integrated into both programs.

Interval Leisure Group owns II and VSE, but that's not a factor here.

Many MVC owners have the option to receive Rewards points through their ownership interest — by turning in an ownership week or Destination Points. My understanding is that many VSE owners have a similar option to receive SPG Starpoints.

It is now possible to transfer points between Rewards accounts and SPG accounts. That's a wonderful option, given that the newly combined Marriott International has around 5,700 hotels.

However, if points received through timeshare interests could be used to book stays at other timeshares, Marriott International would effectively be a timeshare exchange company. The "clean" way to prevent this is by imposing the restriction in the FAQ — even though this also prevents other point redemptions (such as not being able to use MVC ownership to stay at a W Hotel).

There have been interesting questions raised in this thread about "buckets" of points. My guess — and this is only a guess — is that points from timeshare ownership are automatically used first toward hotel stays. So the transfer restriction would only come into play if fewer points in the balance were earned from other sources (hotel stays, credit card, bonuses) than what someone is trying to transfer. That would be the straightforward way.

You have hit the nail on the head. This is likely why previously they indicated that there was a restriction in using MR points to book back in to MVC properties. It would seem by allowing that and perhaps allowing VSE and MVC to transfer SPG and MR points between accounts would create in essence as an exchange company as you indicate. This would cause other disclosure requirements and filings with the state of Florida among perhaps other states. Marriott International doesn't want to be in the exchange company business.
 

BocaBoy

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
5,332
Reaction score
410
Points
368
Location
Wisconsin
Resorts Owned
Grand Chateau
Interesting that they plan to track the source of the points going forward. I know for a fact that in the past Marriott Rewards had no ability to do this, so it won't be possible for them to do this with MR points previously accumulated.
 

Mamianka

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
634
Reaction score
6
Points
228
Location
Kingston, NY USA
Just like Marriott lists weeks for rent on Marriott.com, Vistana does the same on the Starwood website. This would apply to all of their properties. ALl based on availability. The inventory comes from either developer owned intervals or weeks that owners turn in for SPG points. Pretty much the same as how Marriott works.


I did not think that ALL the Vistana time shares would have some inventory that you could get for MRPS (converted to SPG points.). I do not think ALL Marriott timeshares set aside inventory that can be obtained with MRPs (or am I wrong about THIS, too?). So - are you saying that instead of us plowing thru all their Vistana properties to see IF we can use SPG points - that those who DO allow this, will just be the ones that pop up on the Starwood site? Gee, that would save tons of research time! Or, am I missing something here? Just when we though we had this figured out- BOOM- doubt. I will go take a look later today - and see if this makes it easier. I guess I will have to have one list of all Vistana locations- and then check the Starwood locations, to see if those timeshares come up. Appropriately, having VACATION FUN is a full-time job, if you do it right!

Mamianka
 

icydog

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,867
Reaction score
334
Points
468
Location
Central NJ
I have just checked my account.
My Rewards are shown by type
Hotel Stay
Bonus
Rewards
Events
Transfer
Badge
This may well be new, but to be honest I have probably never really looked before so I am not too sure.
With a recent Travel Package purchase, I have just about used up all the 2.5 million points I had so the latest changes will have limited impact on me however it pans out but we shall see.


Ok, very off topic, but I'm intrigued that you used so many points in one travel package. Can you please explain where you went and how long you stayed? I'm so curious. I know it's not my business but I'm still sooooo curious!
 

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
4,423
Reaction score
1,240
Points
399
Location
Cirencester UK
Ok, very off topic, but I'm intrigued that you used so many points in one travel package. Can you please explain where you went and how long you stayed? I'm so curious. I know it's not my business but I'm still sooooo curious!
Ha ha, sorry for misleading you - that certainly would have been some trip
It was 2.5+ million lifetime points, of which I now have only ~30k left having just used 270k on a 5 Night Travel Package Category 7 Hotels with maximum BA miles (Avios) plus a 35% bonus Avios offer they had on.
We haven't actually decided what we are going to do with them yet, but the bonus offer was too good to let pass.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,376
Reaction score
18,940
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I did not think that ALL the Vistana time shares would have some inventory that you could get for MRPS (converted to SPG points.). I do not think ALL Marriott timeshares set aside inventory that can be obtained with MRPs (or am I wrong about THIS, too?). So - are you saying that instead of us plowing thru all their Vistana properties to see IF we can use SPG points - that those who DO allow this, will just be the ones that pop up on the Starwood site? Gee, that would save tons of research time! Or, am I missing something here? Just when we though we had this figured out- BOOM- doubt. I will go take a look later today - and see if this makes it easier. I guess I will have to have one list of all Vistana locations- and then check the Starwood locations, to see if those timeshares come up. Appropriately, having VACATION FUN is a full-time job, if you do it right!

Mamianka

They may not all set inventory aside. But they all could at some point in time have inventory available using points. I don't really know how to search reward inventory in SPG, but I suspect you do it online. As with MVC using MR points, I think inventory at Vistana properties is rare in SPG, but the possibility is there.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,672
Reaction score
9,093
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
If you have an SPG Acct., all you have to do is go to the SPG website and log in, and search using Starpoints, as you would for any hotel reservation.

Clarification: There are 2 separate pools of inventory:

1) timeshare owner's inventory (cannot be reserved with Starpoints)

2) inventory that belongs to SPG (for instance - timeshares that the owners converted to Starpoints)

Vistana controls what dates they issue to SPG for Starpoint redemption, so you are most likely to find off-season availability.

They do the same thing with exchange companies - hold back high season dates, and release off-season dates for exchanges.

*BTW - This has been possible for awhile (years) - it is not a feature of the SPG/Marriott merger.
 
Last edited:

CORK2

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
28
Reaction score
4
Points
63
Location
Dublin Ireland
Resorts Owned
Marriott Beach Resort Marbella Spain
Lots of posts so apologies if this is already covered .
Could I convert my Marriott Timeshare week into MR points ...and then on into Starwood points . When i come to use these points how would anyone know which were earned with stays ., against those converted .
Thanks Garry
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,376
Reaction score
18,940
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Lots of posts so apologies if this is already covered .
Could I convert my Marriott Timeshare week into MR points ...and then on into Starwood points . When i come to use these points how would anyone know which were earned with stays ., against those converted .
Thanks Garry

Apparently they are keeping track of the source. We don't know for sure if that is true or not. Apparently it is not even possible to convert Marriott Reward points from trading your week to SPG points. So you can't even get them in to SPG to even use at a Westin or Sheraton vacation club property.
 

jancurious

TUG Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
827
Reaction score
22
Points
378
Location
Roseville, CA
Not sure if this was covered previously in this thread but we called today to see if our Category 9 MR hotel certificate was able to be converted to a Starwood hotel certificate in any way.

The answer was no (for now).

Jan
 

Safti

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
444
Reaction score
48
Points
238
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Okay, well I just spent the last 1.5 hours on the phone with VOA supervisor at MVCI. Here's the deal that they see. They have different optics while viewing our MR account. They actually do show buckets. They are listed as MVW (which are exchange points for timeshares) and MR (all other Marriott Rewards points). The changes take place as of the date of the merger and they will not be putting historical points into the various buckets. That means if you exchange your timeshare for 110K points from this day onward, they will see 110K points in your MVW account. The ONLY way that we can see them is to do a more in depth search. How do we do that search? Well, we have to go into our account, look for account activity, that will open a link to current dates or you can search up to 12 months past. Next to that button is something that says "type". Press "bonus" and all of your bonus points in the past will come up. You can see when looking at that information which of your timeshare exchanges have provided you with points. Those points will go into the MVW bucket from now on. There you go. More headaches for us. The other question that I had was specifically regarding converting MR points over to airlines. As far as I'm concerned, those points should come out of the MVW bucket since they are the most restricted and cannot be transferred to SPG. I generally transfer online and I'm concerned that the MR points may be taken from whichever bucket they feel like taking it from. So I asked, does this mean that I can no longer transfer points online since I will never be certain that the points were taken from the right bucket. No, she says that somehow MR will know to take it from the most restricted account first. I'm not so certain of this and think that you now have to contact MR directly and give instructions as to which bucket you want to take the points from. It's a new crazy system. . Very annoying and I have little faith in MR that they will do this job correctly.
 

vistana101

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
639
Reaction score
77
Points
388
Resorts Owned
SVV (x2)
Okay, well I just spent the last 1.5 hours on the phone with VOA supervisor at MVCI. Here's the deal that they see. They have different optics while viewing our MR account. They actually do show buckets. They are listed as MVW (which are exchange points for timeshares) and MR (all other Marriott Rewards points). The changes take place as of the date of the merger and they will not be putting historical points into the various buckets. That means if you exchange your timeshare for 110K points from this day onward, they will see 110K points in your MVW account. The ONLY way that we can see them is to do a more in depth search. How do we do that search? Well, we have to go into our account, look for account activity, that will open a link to current dates or you can search up to 12 months past. Next to that button is something that says "type". Press "bonus" and all of your bonus points in the past will come up. You can see when looking at that information which of your timeshare exchanges have provided you with points. Those points will go into the MVW bucket from now on. There you go. More headaches for us. The other question that I had was specifically regarding converting MR points over to airlines. As far as I'm concerned, those points should come out of the MVW bucket since they are the most restricted and cannot be transferred to SPG. I generally transfer online and I'm concerned that the MR points may be taken from whichever bucket they feel like taking it from. So I asked, does this mean that I can no longer transfer points online since I will never be certain that the points were taken from the right bucket. No, she says that somehow MR will know to take it from the most restricted account first. I'm not so certain of this and think that you now have to contact MR directly and give instructions as to which bucket you want to take the points from. It's a new crazy system. . Very annoying and I have little faith in MR that they will do this job correctly.

So if I converted my timeshare week to points before the merger, I can still transfer them between programs, since the system will not separate these points already in my account?
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,376
Reaction score
18,940
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
So if I converted my timeshare week to points before the merger, I can still transfer them between programs, since the system will not separate these points already in my account?

The merger of the hotel companies is complete. Apparently the restriction already now exists preventing moving SPG or MR pionts received from trading a timeshare week between the two programs. Weeks previously traded for points are probably a different story.
 

Safti

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
444
Reaction score
48
Points
238
Location
Toronto, Ontario
So if I converted my timeshare week to points before the merger, I can still transfer them between programs, since the system will not separate these points already in my account?

Weeks previously traded for points have not been flagged in our MR accounts so those points (because they are historical) can be used for whatever purposes you like. From the date of the actual merger, you will no longer be allowed to move points from timeshare trades over to SPG.
 

Quilter

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
3,368
Reaction score
785
Points
498
Location
Plymouth, MI
Weeks previously traded for points have not been flagged in our MR accounts so those points (because they are historical) can be used for whatever purposes you like. From the date of the actual merger, you will no longer be allowed to move points from timeshare trades over to SPG.

I quit converting my weeks to MR points once the mf + conversion fee became more than the cost of buying the MR points directly from MR. My lowest m/f is for Canyon Villas @ $1314. For 100,000 MR points it would cost me $1448 by turning in my week. Buying directly from MR 100k points would be $1,250.

So after this merger it's still a better deal for me to buy points directly.

What resorts were still a good deal for turning weeks into MR points?
 

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
4,423
Reaction score
1,240
Points
399
Location
Cirencester UK
I quit converting my weeks to MR points once the mf + conversion fee became more than the cost of buying the MR points directly from MR. My lowest m/f is for Canyon Villas @ $1314. For 100,000 MR points it would cost me $1448 by turning in my week. Buying directly from MR 100k points would be $1,250.

So after this merger it's still a better deal for me to buy points directly.

What resorts were still a good deal for turning weeks into MR points?
I have never actually done those calculations, your results are very illuminating.
I also quit converting my weeks to MR points many years ago after continuing devaluation.
The only one of our 5 resorts which might just be worthwhile converting would be Phuket Beach Club, where the MFs are still under $1000 and we could get (as I recall) 100k or 110k points.
I would still never do it though, as it is our favourite resort and we would go every year.
 
Top