Good or bad deal

Hi all

I have closed in on a unit that I consider buying. The unit is a 7k yearly at the bay club in HI.

The price for the unit is 3000$

I know that the bay club is an affiliate, but are there any chance that Hilton will abandon the resort? I know that nobody can tell the future, but is it likely?

I also know that the MF is approx 1300/year and that is in the high end.

If I could buy a 7K unit at a HGVC resort, I would easily pay 7-8000$, and the MF would be approx 1000$

Compared after 13-16 years I would have paid the same. But the resort is "only" an affiliate, and will it continue to be that?

Is this a good deal all in total and should I go for it?

Am I missing anything, and are there any downsides to buying affiliate? - I'd tried searching the forums but didn't find what I looked for.

Thanks.

/Michal.

Cyberc said:

Hi all

I have closed in on a unit that I consider buying. The unit is a 7k yearly at the bay club in HI.

The price for the unit is 3000$

I know that the bay club is an affiliate, but are there any chance that Hilton will abandon the resort? I know that nobody can tell the future, but is it likely?

I also know that the MF is approx 1300/year and that is in the high end.

If I could buy a 7K unit at a HGVC resort, I would easily pay 7-8000$, and the MF would be approx 1000$ (Las Vegas is under $1K)

Compared after 13-16 years I would have paid the same. But the resort is "only" an affiliate, and will it continue to be that?

Is this a good deal all in total and should I go for it?

Am I missing anything, and are there any downsides to buying affiliate? - I'd tried searching the forums but didn't find what I looked for.

Thanks.

/Michal.

Click to expand...

Too High. I was going to say $500 for an EOY and $1000 for an annual, but apparently prices have gone up (a little) since I bought mine. But $3000 sounds way too high, even if you get a free closing. Now if it includes 2014 usage and includes 2014 MF's.

I wouldn't worry about the Bay Club going anywhere. HGVC/Hilton purchased the Bay Club and all of their property to build the Waikoloa Beach Resort and Kings Land. The Bay Club was originally a condo complex. Some of the original units are still condo's. Over the years, HGVC as purchased some of the condo units and converted them to HGVC TS's, and many are owned by HGVC employees who picked them up.

Here are a couple that recently closed on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2BR-BAY-CLU...71533184913?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3f38a39791

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timeshare-B...61529455544?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3ce45ecbb8


UPDATE: Don't buy a 1-BDRM. They may be cheap (1-penny), but you'll pay almost the same MF's each year, but for 1/2 the points.

Cyberc said:

Hi all

I have closed in on a unit that I consider buying. The unit is a 7k yearly at the bay club in HI.

The price for the unit is 3000$

I know that the bay club is an affiliate, but are there any chance that Hilton will abandon the resort? I know that nobody can tell the future, but is it likely?

I also know that the MF is approx 1300/year and that is in the high end.

If I could buy a 7K unit at a HGVC resort, I would easily pay 7-8000$, and the MF would be approx 1000$

Compared after 13-16 years I would have paid the same. But the resort is "only" an affiliate, and will it continue to be that?

Is this a good deal all in total and should I go for it?

Am I missing anything, and are there any downsides to buying affiliate? - I'd tried searching the forums but didn't find what I looked for.

Thanks.

/Michal.

Click to expand...

I am in process of closing on a EOY 1 BR that I got off EBAY for $0.01 (Free closing).

IMHO the bay club looks like a undervalued buy in opportunity to HGVC if gotten at the right price.

Everyone has to do their own math when making a purchase decision, and I am pretty confident that at that price you are still getting a great deal compared to buying from the developer or paying the premium for a "Hilton" owned resort. For an Ebay purchase, that might be too much, but for the resale market, that might be reasonable (I would suggest contacting some of the resale agents that are constantly mentioned on this board to get their feel for what these are worth). Ebay is full of complications and risks that resale through agents don't have (which is why the prices are discounted).

Personally, I view the purchase price as a "Sunk" cost that I would never expect to recover via resale and would only be redeemed once the true value of my vacation stays (hotel or home rental I would have made) exceeds the MF paid by the amount of the sunk cost.

In other words, if you are planning on trading your timeshare into stays that will equal or exceed $1300 /year (Plus additional club and booking fees and/or trading fees..etc), then you can at least be assured that you are not making a bad purchase for your own vacation habits.

The next step would be to figure out time to payback on "sunk cost". If you can turn that $1300 into a annual stay (or group of stays) that you would save you $1500 a year in vacation expenses you would have otherwise incurred via alternative sources (hotels or airbnb or other sources ) then you have "recovered" your sunk cost in 2 years (which is pretty good) and all savings after that can be put in your pocket. If alternatively you intend to use the points at locations where you would normally stay at inexpensive accommodations and the savings was only $100/year or less (or even a negative net savings), then you are talking about 30+ years of payback (which probably is not worth it).

Welcome to Tug

Welcome to Tug and we all hope you sign up as a member. What is more important to you. How long Bay Club will be part of HGVC or whether some of us purchased such a 2 bedroom for less than $3,000 or more.

Hilton is not going to give up the management of the BayClub because it was the HGVC beach head that enabled it to build out the Kohala Resort and then Kingsland. HGVC invested hours of time and money in doing a fabulous rehab of the old and tired Bay Club into the new Gold 5 Star TS.

Has to how much you spend? It is a little to late to scrutinize about the purchase assuming you have all ready paid the money. If it makes you feel better I just sold an EOY Bay Club through a broker for $3,000 plus the buyer paid all costs. I then turned around and bought an annual 2 bedroom for less than $3,000. In 5 years you will not remember what you paid for the Bay Club or what the MF are, but you will remember that you really enjoy the timeshare, enjoy trading 7,000 HGVC points for Hilton Village at Waikiki, or every other year use just 4800 points and do an HGVC/RCI trade and move up and enjoy Kingsland, Kohala or Waikiki, and manage to bank the other points. In the alternative, you will halt the day you ever bought the timeshare and like thousands just want to give back the timeshare and walk away. I doubt that the deciding factor is whether you shop EBAY to get a $2,000 purchase price instead of $3,000.

As to maintenance fees of $1350 a year being a couple hundred more than some mainland HGVC I consider $3,000 cash as easy to gamble with than $7,000 or more. In the end, it depends upon whether you enjoy and use HGVC. I certainly do, and the Bay Club brings me back every year unless I trade it into the Kohala, Kingsland, or another HGVC.

I bought an EOY bay club last year for a little less than 1/2 that so it sounds about right. You could probably get it a little cheaper on eBay but sometimes that can be more hassle than its worth. I agree that the bay club is the under appreciated way into HGVC for not much money up front. The per point MF is about the same as a gold 2bd in Orlando for about the same up front cost and your 3k up front is getting you 7k points instead of 5k. My only regret is that I bought an EOY Instead of an EY. The only downside to the bay club is that if you want to borrow you points you need to prepay your MF.

Ian

Ron98GT said:

Too High. I was going to say $500 for an EOY and $1000 for an annual, but apparently prices have gone up (a little) since I bought mine. But $3000 sounds way too high, even if you get a free closing. Now if it includes 2014 usage and includes 2014 MF's.

I wouldn't worry about the Bay Club going anywhere. HGVC/Hilton purchased the Bay Club and all of their property to build the Waikoloa Beach Resort and Kings Land. The Bay Club was originally a condo complex. Some of the original units are still condo's. Over the years, HGVC as purchased some of the condo units and converted them to HGVC TS's, and many are owned by HGVC employees who picked them up.

Here are a couple that recently closed on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2BR-BAY-CLU...71533184913?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3f38a39791

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timeshare-B...61529455544?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3ce45ecbb8

Click to expand...

Thanks for you reply, I have not yet paid any money for the unit, but from what I can find else where listed with brokers my deal sounded good.

I'm buying directly with a broker, not ebay. I would buy it on ebay if I could. but I haven't found any lately.

Compared to the ebay pricing, my price is higher I can see.

I am in process of closing on a EOY 1 BR that I got off EBAY for $0.01 (Free closing).

Click to expand...

Compared to that price i'm paying way too much

Welcome to Tug and we all hope you sign up as a member.

Click to expand...

I have actually allready signed up and paid for a membership but for some reason i'm still registered as a guest.

Hilton is not going to give up the management of the BayClub because it was the HGVC beach head that enabled it to build out the Kohala Resort and then Kingsland. HGVC invested hours of time and money in doing a fabulous rehab of the old and tired Bay Club into the new Gold 5 Star TS.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info I was not aware of that it was Hilton that paid for the rehab of the old Bay club.

Has to how much you spend? It is a little to late to scrutinize about the purchase assuming you have all ready paid the money. If it makes you feel better I just sold an EOY Bay Club through a broker for $3,000 plus the buyer paid all costs. I then turned around and bought an annual 2 bedroom for less than $3,000. In 5 years you will not remember what you paid for the Bay Club or what the MF are, but you will remember that you really enjoy the timeshare, enjoy trading 7,000 HGVC points for Hilton Village at Waikiki, or every other year use just 4800 points and do an HGVC/RCI trade and move up and enjoy Kingsland, Kohala or Waikiki, and manage to bank the other points. In the alternative, you will halt the day you ever bought the timeshare and like thousands just want to give back the timeshare and walk away. I doubt that the deciding factor is whether you shop EBAY to get a $2,000 purchase price instead of $3,000.

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I haven't actually paid anything yet, got the contract. The thing is, that I wont be going to HI anytime soon. I mainly buying the property to use the HGVC points for trade it for other vacations at a HGVC resort. Thats also why I was looking for any info that Hilton was about to give up the Bay club.

The fact that the MF is a bit higher in HI, does not scare me, as long as the deal all on all is good. So 3000$ for a 7k point package compared to a HGVC resort, that costs 7-8000$ my deal sounded good. But I now see, that my deal wasen't that good after all.

I have to pay 3000$ + costs + title insurance.

What would you guys advice? wait for an ebay auction or try and negotiate the price point? or maybe something else?

I already own a TS in florida, but not HGVC, and we use that to exchange through RCI every year, and a glad for doing so. This we will continue to do.

I have stayed at the Hilton strip, and it was very nice. I liked the resort, and would like to visit other HGVC resorts in the future. A 7k price package would do just fine for my family.

The only downside to the bay club is that if you want to borrow you points you need to prepay your MF.

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I would be able to live with that, but it would have been nice to be able to avoid it.

Thanks again for all your answers i really appreciate it.

I honestly don't know what to do, should I drop the contract and wait for an ebay auction or re-negotiate the price? What would be the best way to go about it. I would really like to own the property but not for any costs.


regards Michal

Have you considered looking at the affliates in SW Florida?
Points are points no matter where you own.
I would wait several more months to scour Ebay for any of the HGVC affiliates and research the Listings that were sold.
Mgeez

No actually I haven't.

Do you have any names of resorts to search for?

regards Michal

I have found the names my self, and doing some searching. The availability on ebay for the remaning affiliates are next to nothing.

I still like the bay club, but as mentioned I wont pay too much for the unit. I dont mind paying a little extra since its a direct sale from a broker and not ebay.

I'm still in a fuzz about what to do about the contract that i have already been sent.

regards Michal

Cyberc said:

I have found the names my self, and doing some searching. The availability on ebay for the remaning affiliates are next to nothing.

I still like the bay club, but as mentioned I wont pay too much for the unit. I dont mind paying a little extra since its a direct sale from a broker and not ebay.

I'm still in a fuzz about what to do about the contract that i have already been sent.

regards Michal

Click to expand...

If your math says it is a good deal for you and your family then do it. If not then don't. If you are uncertain, wait and do more research. There will always be an opportunity to buy a timeshare at a wide variaty of prices depending on macro and micro economic situations.

Cyberc said:

I have actually allready signed up and paid for a membership but for some reason i'm still registered as a guest.

Click to expand...

Here is the info on how to get the member thing to show up.
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45796


Regarding your purchase, there will always be people who pay more or less than you. Most of the people who will publicly post will be those who paid less, only because they feel they got a good deal and they want to share that information. Those who paid more don't post as much because they feel they didn't get as good of a deal. You really need to decide if it is worth it to you. Do you want your points ASAP? Or, do you have time to shop around knowing that it may be a month or more before you find what you want? It's really all about you.

You can't just look at the sale prices of 1 bd Bay Club 4800 with 2 bd Bay Club 7000 and decide that since the 1 bd is cheaper it's a better deal. Look at the MF/Credit ratio and you will discover that it's much higher for the 1 bd than the 2 bd which is why the 2bd sells for more. You have to decide which you feel more comfortable with.

Ian

If you want to follow thru on this TS, but would like to get a slightly better deal, you can:

1. Ask for a better better price. $2000, $2500, etc.
2. Ask the seller to pay the closing costs. (could save you $900)
3. Ask if the 2014 MF's have been paid & if you get the 2014 MF's. This would be good because it's worth $1300 and you get points to use this year or carry them over to next year.

Everything is negotiable!

Another note. I purchased my 7K Bay Club directly from the previous owner, but paid eBay current value (Completed Sales), which we used as comps. Any time you purchase anything, land, TS, house, etc, from a broker, you will pay a premium, which is how a sales person makes a living. Some people don't mind or prefer to use a TS broker or sales person to locate the unit and handle all of the paper work. Others, such as my self, prefer to do the work ourselves and save the money. I got mine by placing a wish/want ad in the Tug market place.

If you want/need it now, go with a broker and try to get the best price. If your not in a hurry, watch eBay and try placing a wish/want ad in the Tug Market Place: worked for me.

http://tug2.com/timesharemarketplac...ram=&Week=&Year=&Bedrooms=&Bathrooms=&Sleeps=


A couple of more things: Make sure that you get an estoppel letter and if they offer you title insurance, don't pay for it.

I choose JRA Services to handle the closing, because I read good reviews here on Tug. It turned out that the Seller had previous experience with Janet and was going to recommend her services/company, which handles Hawaii closings:

http://www.timeshareresaleclosings.com/

At the time that I negotiated the purchase with the seller over the phone, we were at the Marriott in Ko'Olina, Hawaii. I was worrying about a contract, but Janet handled the whole thing. I used her online buyer contact/info_sheet, while the seller used the online seller contact/info_sheet. All went smoothly and we closed in a couple of weeks, after we got the estoppel.

http://timeshareresaleclosings.com/buyers.html


And lastly (I promise), if you come across a 8400 point Bay Club Villa, jump on it. It's worth the $ for the points and if you get a chance to stay in one, you'll see how nice they are: 2 master bdrms, 3 bathrooms, carport...

Have fun hunting and cleaning, err closing.

PassionForTravel said:

You can't just look at the sale prices of 1 bd Bay Club 4800 with 2 bd Bay Club 7000 and decide that since the 1 bd is cheaper it's a better deal. Look at the MF/Credit ratio and you will discover that it's much higher for the 1 bd than the 2 bd which is why the 2bd sells for more. You have to decide which you feel more comfortable with.

Ian

Click to expand...

I agree 100%. everyone has to do their own math and make decisions that they feel are the best for their financial situation.

presley said:

Here is the info on how to get the member thing to show up.
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45796

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Thanks for your help regarding my account

I've talked to the agent and we agreed upon a price reduction of 500$. All in all I'm satisfied with my deal. I appreciate everyone for speaking their mind. Thanks everyone.

I'm going to pay the deposit tomorrow and take it from there.

Regards Michal.

Congratulations on finding a unit and price you like. HGVC is a great system.

Ian