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Buying points! Why?

KathyPet

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Please excuse me if the answer to this question is so simplistic that I must be terminally dumb for not seeing it but why would a potential new person to the Marriott system buy into the points concept? If I buy 25,000 points for say $23000.00 have I really bought anything of lasting value? I certainly have not bought anything I can reach out and touch like the deed to my weeks. Is it anticipated that the cost of purchasing these points will increase over time so when I go to sell them I would recover my value? I was told when I bought my first MVCI that I should be able to recoup my investment on that unit and it certainly has not happened. Why should this points program be any different? Since the resale value of these points is completely unknown why would I want to invest money in these points rather than just renting MVCI units as needed? If I am going to put $ into something I would rather have something concrete to say I own rather than a bunch of rather points. Marriott is certainly not going to buy my points back or help me sell them which then requires that I sell on the open market. I certainly would never recoup what I paid for them selling that way so it sounds like a losing proposition to me but maybe I am not seeing the big picture here.
 

foreverloves

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Marriott would like you to believe that you are buying into flexibility; the ability to have shorter stays, the ability to check in on any day of the week, the ability to bank your points and save up for a fabulous trip or a cruise. Marriott would like you to believe that it's just fine not to have a "home resort" and you are not tied to anything. It's a "whole new way to vacation!" And for legacy week owners, it's just an "option" each year! (to convert your week to DC points) Marriott would like you to believe that you can potentially get "more" vacation when you factor in shorter stays, travel at off season times, etc.

I have heard that the points allotted to the trust are fixed, so that if points values fluctuate in one property, they would be lowered elsewhere. We'll see.

The reality is: Right now, there is no means to resell your points, so you have something that isn't worth a lot if you suddenly had to unload it (this should change). If Marriott runs its points system like DVC (doubtful!) it should mean that your points retain value - that Marriott will not do what other points-based systems have done and jack up points needed for stays, thus diluting the cost per point. Your MFs are fixed at 40 cents a point - will that remain? I guess...but it's an advantage to some who want to be able to budget their MF.
 

Asia2000

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Your point is well taken and as of today, seems quite valid. However, I think Marriott will set up a program where a DC week owner could resell his/her week and roll the points over to the new owner.

Marriott provides this service for the Asia-Pacific Vacation Club for a fee of $250. The owner sets the price of the total amount of points. When the Asia program was started, points sold for $0.75, then went to $1.00, then to $1.25. Their points are not sold on the same scale as the USA. 32,000 points would get you a 2 bedroom platinum week.

Recently, the points went back to $1.00 for a limited time. This happened after the launch of the USA program.

Long story short, today you can find many point packages for sale (mostly in Hong Kong) ranging in price from $0.83 to $0.95 per point. These are asking prices and I'm sure one could negotiate a bit.

The only thing that does not transfer to the seller is the ability to convert the Club points to Marriott Reward points. Everything else is the same.

Also, you cannot buy two point programs and combine them. You could buy a used program and add to it with brand new points. Or you could own one program and your wife could own the other (I would only advise this for the heavy-duty timesharer).

So, you are correct today, but Marriott will make it right for DC members. Marriott will enjoy making good money by simply shuffling some papers and typing in new names and addresses. Plus the opportunity to sell more points to that resale buyer.

Will the US point packages be worth 75%+ of the original cost like in Asia. Doubtfully for quite a while, but as the DC program evolves, it would seem the resale value would build if the program is deemed successful by its owners.

Please excuse me if the answer to this question is so simplistic that I must be terminally dumb for not seeing it but why would a potential new person to the Marriott system buy into the points concept? If I buy 25,000 points for say $23000.00 have I really bought anything of lasting value? I certainly have not bought anything I can reach out and touch like the deed to my weeks. Is it anticipated that the cost of purchasing these points will increase over time so when I go to sell them I would recover my value? I was told when I bought my first MVCI that I should be able to recoup my investment on that unit and it certainly has not happened. Why should this points program be any different? Since the resale value of these points is completely unknown why would I want to invest money in these points rather than just renting MVCI units as needed? If I am going to put $ into something I would rather have something concrete to say I own rather than a bunch of rather points. Marriott is certainly not going to buy my points back or help me sell them which then requires that I sell on the open market. I certainly would never recoup what I paid for them selling that way so it sounds like a losing proposition to me but maybe I am not seeing the big picture here.
 

Herb33

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... why would a potential new person to the Marriott system buy into the points concept?​

I know I wouldn't. But that's just me.

To those who would, I respect your reasons and wish you great vacations with no regrets.
 
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foreverloves

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You're right. I did a lot of reading about the Asia-Pacific concept that Marriott has always had with a points-based system there. Apparently, they analyzed what the vacation patterns were of natives there and discovered that one week intervals did not work. Thus, points.

I do believe Marriott has plans to roll out a resale option for points - in that I mean they will give owners a way to unload them. At this point, I don't know how anyone would sell their points.

Points is not a new concept for Marriott, just in the US. I'm thinking the learning curve will be steep and long, but it's the future!
 

aka Julie

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Please excuse me if the answer to this question is so simplistic that I must be terminally dumb for not seeing it but why would a potential new person to the Marriott system buy into the points concept? If I buy 25,000 points for say $23000.00 have I really bought anything of lasting value?

Kathy,

Think you mean 2,500 points not 25,000.:eek: IIRC points are currently$9.20 per.

25,000 points would be a whopping $230,000. With that amount of points, the sky is the limit on where and how often you could go.
 

lll1929

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If you buy into the points program as a new owner, will you never have to pay assessment fee's like current week owners?

I know I paid quite a bit over the last year in assessment fee's (on top of the Maint fees) for my Aruba Ocean Club.
 

Lawlar

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I Agree

I soooo agree with the OP. I don't get the whole concept of buying points with an uncertain value (well, it's probably certain they will depreciate over time). And MFs besides (a weird concept since the points "owner" doesn't have a direct ownership interest in a property - and no voting rights to "control" the MFs.).

I just booked a week at Shadow Ridge (one-bedroom, one-week; for Oct 2nd) for $272. My wife and I are going to Marriott's Timber Lodge on Oct 23rd for $300 (two-bedroom; one week). These were purchased on II as Getaways.

And if you go out of the Marriott system (there are lots of wonderful hotels and resorts that Marriott doesn't own), you have all kinds of options.

I just don't get the points system.
 

winger

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...it should mean that your points retain value - that Marriott will not do what other points-based systems have done and jack up points needed for stays, thus diluting the cost per point.

Who are you kidding ;) ? Just look to Jan 2009 as a recent example (of what potentially will lie ahead for the DP Club) when the Marriott Rewards Program greatly diluted MRP's IMO. They not only increased the amount of points needed for stays, but they added a category 8. Yes, only a handful of hotels were initially placed into this category, but this new structure with the cat 8 was put in place to devalue MRP's for hotel stays going forward. Every year, they will add just a couple of more hotels into cat 8, and slowly move hotels up the chain. Yes, they will of course bring a few hotels down in categories (just to tell customers that it's hunkie dorie), but I would suspect the amount of hotels increasing categories will greatly out number those who decrease in categories. Yes, Marriott's point is they got rid of blackout dates (did they really?, I am not sure), but...


...Your MFs are fixed at 40 cents a point - will that remain? I guess...but it's an advantage to some who want to be able to budget their MF.
Why won't the MF rate go up? On the contrary, I strongly believe they will go up once Marriott things they have roped in enough DC members.
 

puckmanfl

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good morning...

MF's MUST increase for new "points/trust" owners. TheMF's represent a weighted average of MF's at the trust resorts. MF's will rise for legacy owners at the trust resorts, thus they must rise for TRUST owners...

simple math and economics...
 

winger

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good morning...

MF's MUST increase for new "points/trust" owners. TheMF's represent a weighted average of MF's at the trust resorts. MF's will rise for legacy owners at the trust resorts, thus they must rise for TRUST owners...

simple math and economics...

I would envision Marriott will be 'cushioning' the increases to the Trust Points MF by providing some subsidy, at least for the next few years as they attempt to get the ball rolling on the DP Club. And/or maybe they have already built some of this 'subsidy' into the current 'skim'. A few other things stops sales short faster than visible evidence of sharply increasing MF's. MVCI used MF subsidies with at least some new resorts in the past, I do not see why they would not continue this practice with the new DP Club.
 
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Steve

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Marriott would like you to believe that you are buying into flexibility; the ability to have shorter stays, the ability to check in on any day of the week, the ability to bank your points and save up for a fabulous trip or a cruise. Marriott would like you to believe that it's just fine not to have a "home resort" and you are not tied to anything. It's a "whole new way to vacation!"

In my opinion, the new Marriott system is a very poor value. Why pay tens of thousands of dollars...plus very high maintenance fees...when you don't get a deed or home resort priority? Skip the huge buy in fee and simply pay cash to rent wherever, whatever, and whenever you want. It's a great old way to vacation...and timeshare rentals are both plentiful and relatively cheap.

If a person wants all of this flexibility, then use the ultimate point system: cash.

Steve
 

LAX Mom

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If a person wants all of this flexibility, then use the ultimate point system: cash.
Steve, I agree that cash is the ultimate point system! With MF at some resorts now over $300-350 per night (Starwood Hawaii, Four Seasons and others) it doesn't make $$ sense to lock-in your vacation days by purchasing a timeshare.

Cash has complete flexibility. With cash you can check-in any day, rent any number of days. One year you can rent 4 units for a family reunion and then not rent anything the next year. Cash doesn't expire or require you to bump points forward or back. Cash allows you to reserve and cancel (in some situations) without penalty. Cash allows you to vacation anywhere you wish, even if your desired location doesn't have timeshares. Cash allows you to spend your vacation dollars anyway you wish; hotel, timeshare, cruise, rent a houseboat or motorhome , camping trip, or even new furniture if you decide that is more important than a vacation that year. With cash you aren't locked into a certain number of vacation days per year.

We met with a sales rep at Westin Kauai last spring. When I asked about the high MF (I think they are around $2,500 per year) his response was that they are looking for buyers with plenty of money, people who aren't concerned about how high the MF's go in the future. I thought if people have buckets of money and don't care how high the MF's get why would they purchase a timeshare in the first place. They can just rent from Westin, Marriott, Four Seasons, Hyatt or an individual owner when they want to vacation. Yes cash is the ultimate points system!!
 

BocaBoy

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....why would a potential new person to the Marriott system buy into the points concept?....why would I want to invest money in these points rather than just renting MVCI units as needed?

You nailed it. It makes no sense to me. You can get the same flexibility by renting the number of days you want from Marriott. They are usually available. Longer rentals can be rented even more cheaply from owners on Red Week or another online source. Even that makes more economic sense than buying points. Without the ability to reserve your own week each year, you are simply buying the right to rent some nights each year at a discounted rate.
 
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hotcoffee

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Do I believe my eyes? Are some timesharers now admitting that maybe owning a timeshare makes no sense? I said that for years before making the mistake of buying one in a weak moment. Our family vacationed every year prior to our owning a timeshare. Sometimes, we did two weeks and sometimes just one week. One year, we did a three weeks. We stayed lots of places; and, surprise! we always enjoyed ourselves. We did not need a resort full of unused amenities to enjoy ourselves. Marriott and other timeshare companies have sold millions of people a bill-of-goods by making it seem like they absolutely must have a timeshare to have great yearly vacations. However, renting is a great way to take vacations. There are a lot of condos and timeshares for rent out there that are in great locations, and you can rent them without any long term commitments (or MFs).

Now that we have the timeshare, the new points program made sense in order to regain the flexibility that we lost when we bought the timeshare to begin with. Now, the possibility of taking two-week vacations is back. I can also do mid-week-to-mid-week. Plus, as I demonstrated on July 26, I can grab a week that I previously could not have (i.e, a 2BR OF MOC). What is the cost for this extra flexibility? More money paid to Marriott.
 
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