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ebay auction
- Thread starter ronparise
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2011
- Messages
- 11,206
- Reaction score
- 14,719
- Points
- 999
- Location
- U'alapue/Kaunakakai, Hawaii
- Resorts Owned
- Pono Kai, 20 wks; Maui Schooner, 1.5 wks; 1 week Ke Nani Kai; WaveCrest Condo, Molokai, HI
Ron, Where did you have you're esnipe set?
And it was won by 1 cent, too...
I thought the rule of thumb with WM is to buy only by what you need - I don't need 13 vacations per year.
Rick
42000 credits is only 2.5 weeks at Reunion...4 weeks at the legacy resorts. Im trying to build enough of an account to make a Worldmark resort my second home and 3rd home...(I'll live in Florida for 4 months in the winter, then 4 months in SanDiego where my son lives, and another 4 months in SanFrancisco where my daughter lives).....so Im looking at 300000 or so credits. This deal would have gotten me to my goal
Chris
I tried
Jeff
esnipe was set at 2350 or 27 cents a credit... If I had won I would have rented the 60000 credits in the account at 6 cents, to get back my down payment and transfer fee, plus $1000 (I call it profit)
42000 credits is only 2.5 weeks at Reunion...4 weeks at the legacy resorts. Im trying to build enough of an account to make a Worldmark resort my second home and 3rd home...(I'll live in Florida for 4 months in the winter, then 4 months in SanDiego where my son lives, and another 4 months in SanFrancisco where my daughter lives).....so Im looking at 300000 or so credits. This deal would have gotten me to my goal
Chris
I tried
Jeff
esnipe was set at 2350 or 27 cents a credit... If I had won I would have rented the 60000 credits in the account at 6 cents, to get back my down payment and transfer fee, plus $1000 (I call it profit)
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- Joined
- Mar 5, 2011
- Messages
- 11,206
- Reaction score
- 14,719
- Points
- 999
- Location
- U'alapue/Kaunakakai, Hawaii
- Resorts Owned
- Pono Kai, 20 wks; Maui Schooner, 1.5 wks; 1 week Ke Nani Kai; WaveCrest Condo, Molokai, HI
One thing about the auctions, you have to stick to your guns.
CO skier
TUG Member
$5000 purchase price + $9000 loan + $1200(MF until next anniversary in April) minus (60,000 credits rented at $0.06) divided by 42,000 credits equals 27.6 cents/credit.
For someone who wants that many credits and can payoff the loan and not have to make the minimum monthly payment (otherwise at 19% interest or whatever outrageous amount it is, they are just working for Wyndham or the finance company) it is a good deal. That is the key; how may people want to or can vacation in WorldMark for 4 weeks per year, can payoff the $9000 loan and are willing to commit to $2400 per year in MF. There are some, but most of the "action" is in the 20,000 credits per year and under.
Accounts trading hands at $0.30/ credit have been around for at least a year. There have been reports of sales in the $0.15-0.20/credit for that long.
This auction does not seem to be that unusual. It is only unusual for the number of points involved.
We might find out in about 6 weeks when ads for 60k rental credits and maybe a 42k resale pop up on TUG or WMO.
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the interest rate is closer to 12%, the payment is $145 /month or $1700 a year... mf is $2400 ..so annual expenses are $4200 a year\
If we assume 4 weeks a year...thats $1000 a week...until the loan is paid off ...I dont think thats too bad.
This auction is unusual because of its size and because of the assumable loan.... Its not often you can buy into WM this cheaply.
CO skier
TUG Member
Here is a 7,000 fully loaded account that sold for $2050+$556 for last years MF=$2606. It is one year to the next anniversary, so add another $556. Subtract 14,000 credits valued at $0.06/credit ($840), total cost = $2322
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WorldMark-B...51580954595?pt=Timeshares&hash=item3a9364b7e3
There is a $2680 savings vs. the $5000 for the 42000 credit account from the start.
MF on 7000 credits is $556. Add $2100 for 35,000 credits rented at $0.06 plus $195 for 3 Housekeeping tokens at$65 each = $2851 per year.
That is $700/week for 4 weeks per year with no 12% loan obligation. I think that is a better deal.
The large account owner does not have the hassle of renting in credits each year, but $300/week is a heck of a convenience fee.
And what about the years that only 2 weeks can be used? The large account holder has the hassle of renting out the excess credits.
Savings of $2680 plus an additional savings of $1200/year until the loan is paid off? Sign me up.
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These numbers assume the buyer is looking to keep the account and the loan. I think it is just as likely that the buyer is looking to strip the current credits and HKT, and then resell the contract, perhaps keeping it for no more than 3-9 months. The fact that there was a loan could have kept the price down, but it ended up being just a good deal vice a great deal since it did go for close to the going rate.
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CO skier
TUG Member
At the going rate of $0.30/credit, after selling the points and HK, the buyer is looking at making about $0.03 times 42000 credits, or $1260 (it will depend, of course, on what the sale price turns out to be). It seems like a lot of time and hassle -- notarizations buying and selling, placing ads, will the buyer pay me?, etc. for minimum return.
Then there is that $145 loan payment plus $200 maintenance fee payment each month which would quickly corrode any profit.
Its only a minimum return if you do it once, do a deal like this every week and pretty soon you are talking about a business. and as Chris said flip the contract at 30 cents a credit and you will never see another loan payment of mf bill
As to the hassle of placing ads and renting credits,,,My experience is that its not. and as to the hassle of selling....sure its a hassle if you do it once a year, but do it once a week and it becomes routine. ......
But forget the strip and resell strategy....a buy and hold strategy like mine can work too. I recently made and rented 8 weekends at a Worldmark resort (40000 credits) I rented these at $600 each which is slightly better than breakeven... ezpz
But I think the best reason to buy Worldmark credits is as a proxy for a second home. Im working with someone now that is shopping for a condo in New Orleans, A place of their own where they can stay for Mardi Gras, and use a weekend a month or so. They are considering a $250000 condo with monthly fees plus taxes and insurance and utilities of about $10000 a year.plus a mortgage payment. Im suggesting 80000 or so wordlmark credits At the numbers weve been tossing around $8000 a year with no capital investment......
Bigrob
TUG Member
When I first saw that one I assumed you would be all over it. I actually think the one Sean Singletary sold recently was the better deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221490995086?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
23K credits for $5933 all in. less than 26 cents per credit. But I don't quite have the same affinity you do for the assumable loan - which is good because it keeps us from stepping on each other.
I wasn't the winning bidder on either one.
Eric
Thats the better deal if you have $6000 you are willing to tie up...
I like the assumable loan deals because I think timeshares are risky business. and Id rather do it with other peoples money.
My game plan is to use other peoples money to buy the timeshares, rent for enough to pay off the loan and provide a positive cash flow. The positive cash flow Ill use to pay off my home...and One day soon I hope to report that the home is paid off as well as the timeshares..
Thats the better deal if you have $6000 you are willing to tie up...
I like the assumable loan deals because I think timeshares are risky business. and Id rather do it with other peoples money.
My game plan is to use other peoples money to buy the timeshares, rent for enough to pay off the loan and provide a positive cash flow. The positive cash flow Ill use to pay off my home...and One day soon I hope to report that the home is paid off as well as the timeshares..
Does it include using a LLC to mitigate financial liability too and how does a LLC affect risk to other owners?
I have an LLC but not because it might mitigate financial libility and not for my Worldmark. I do that personally. I have LLC's for some of my Wyndham stuff, because it lives forever and I wont. There is a financial aspect to my decision to do things in an LLC too..... I can sell a Platinum account with 15 or 20 contracts at once without 15 or 20 $299 fees. and with the Platinum benefits.
If I recall correctly, ownership at Worldmark must be held by up to two individuals, no LLCs.
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That last line is a great point/idea. No need to "sell" contracts to someone else. Just sell the LLC lock, stock, and barrel... Nice...
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cotraveller
TUG Member
Don't know about an LLC, but a corporation can hold a WorldMark account, wmowners has one. A Trust can also hold a WorldMark account, I checked on that when we set up our family trust.
Interesting on wmowners.. I thought wmowners was based out of Oregon but I didn't see any registration information.
WRT the family trust, how is the ownership recorded? Just "Fred's Family Trust" or it is jointly owned as "Fred, trustee, and Fred's Family Trust"?
Does that then require you to put the Trust beneficiaries as guests when you make reservations?
It should be something like Fred, Trustee of Fred's Family Trust. Only the trustees are considered the owners. Beneficiaries are guests. After trustee(s) pass away, and the estate is distributed according to the trust, then the beneficiary can assume ownership which would still require a transfer in title to assume ownership.
Reviewing the Guidelines, I cannot find an explicit prohibition against LLCs, DBAs, corporations, trusts, etc.. However, there is this broadly worded "catch-all" guideline which could be interpreted to exclude those types of ownership (it's amazing how varied each TS system/independent treats non-persons):
SECTION E — ADMINISTRATION
1. Single Residence Ownership. Club ownership is designed for use by Owners who live in the same residence, and Owners who
sign the same Vacation Owner Agreement must meet that requirement. This does not prohibit Guest usage by persons living in other
residences.
I would think you have it right, but hopefully Fred can shed some light on the specifics of how this is done, considering the above guideline. I might want to do something similar myself at some point.
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