New Marriott Plan for Dummies like Me

I've been loosely following this information for several weeks. Many higher priorities including a relocation to Atlanta GA. Today I have my new wireless internet up and running.

I've been doing some reading and this is what I've garnered for our personal situation. We own at Newport Coast. If we join the new program we will no longer be able to exchange for a full week at Newport Coast and we will pay Marriott a fee to be able NOT to receive our full week.

However, if we like the idea of flexibility...while not receiving our full week we can use the full week to get a potential variety of nights at other places?

Does that pretty well sum up the decision we face at this time?

Thanks for any input on any possible advantage to joining the 'new deal' that I may have missed in regard to our Platinum NCV ownership.

I have heard of no advantage to the new plan other than being able to have a wider variety of shorter vacations since you will not be able to have enough points to get a full week at an equivalent to your home resort.
Kind of weird marketing, talking customers into getting less and paying more for it, maybe we can label the technique for marketing classes the "Marriott Factor" in customer satisfaction:rofl:

b2bailey said:

I've been loosely following this information for several weeks. Many higher priorities including a relocation to Atlanta GA. Today I have my new wireless internet up and running.

I've been doing some reading and this is what I've garnered for our personal situation. We own at Newport Coast. If we join the new program we will no longer be able to exchange for a full week at Newport Coast and we will pay Marriott a fee to be able NOT to receive our full week.

However, if we like the idea of flexibility...while not receiving our full week we can use the full week to get a potential variety of nights at other places?

Does that pretty well sum up the decision we face at this time?

Thanks for any input on any possible advantage to joining the 'new deal' that I may have missed in regard to our Platinum NCV ownership.

Click to expand...

You pay an enrollment fee of $600 (if you bought retail) and $1600 if you bought resale. Plus $199 a year. Plus you are never allowed to vote against Marriott's interests as long as you are enrolled.

This gives you the option to decide to redeem for points in a given year and use those somewhere else. If you own NCV Platinum you will get 3475 points. which is enough for an island view/mountain view summer week in the Caribbean but it may not get you into many other places when you want to go. You can take a look at the points chart and see if it fits your needs and if it's worth the extra cost.

Many people who have experience with II say you can do a lot better with II exchanges since Marriott's points allocations have a skim factor and you got less than the average points required to trade into your season.

I am the least knowledgeable about this new program, but, I gathered that you would not use the points system if you wanted to stay at your own resort. Instead, you would opt out of putting your week into the points program for the year of your intended stay (I think you have do decide each year in October or November which way you are going to go the following year) and reserve your week as you would normally would. However, you would have to convert your week to points if you wanted to exchange for a week outside your season. In other words, you would convert your week to points for years that you wanted to stay in another Marriott or outside your season in your Marriott.

Someone please correct me if I'm partially or completely wrong (as if I had to ask ).


Charles

CMF said:

I am the least knowledgeable about this new program, but, I gathered that you would not use the points system if you wanted to stay at your own resort. Instead, you would opt out of putting your week into the points program for the year of your intended stay (I think you have do decide each year in October or November which way you are going to go the following year) and reserve your week as you would normally would. However, you would have to convert your week to points if you wanted to exchange for a week outside your season. In other words, you would convert your week to points for years that you wanted to stay in another Marriott or outside your season in your Marriott.

Someone please correct me if I'm partially or completely wrong (as if I had to ask ).


Charles

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Mostly correct.

You would not opt out of points... I believe the default is you use the week and you need to be proactive to convert to points.

You may use points to book a week at your home resort, but (also due to skimming) there will be many weeks you will not be able to book at your home resort with points. However, at some resorts, if you travel off season it may be more beneficial to book it with points since you'll have some left over.

For example, NCV Platinum gives me 3475 points. The June to mid-Sep weeks are 4200 to 4700 points to book. But from mid-Sep to mid-Dec one can book weeks for 2900 points. The average it takes to book a week in the season is 3706. The difference between 3706 and 3475 is known as skimming and should be considered part of the cost of converting to points in a given year (you'd have more points left over if you booked a week for 2900 and had 3706 points to start with).

Some resorts, with more even demand year round (e.g. MGC) owners cannot book any week in their season with points due to skimming.

Charles is right- if you use your home week at your home resort then you don't even need to worry about points (whether you are enrolled or not).

If you want the flexibility and want to stay a shorter time at your home resort then you may be able to save some points to use elsewhere. You probably won't be able to get prime times but if you go after low or shoulder seasons you may be able to stretch your week to 10 days or so. For the extra flexibiltiy there is the hidden cost of the skim- you turn in a week that is worth more to Marriott than they are willing to give you for it.

The interesting thing is going to be seeing how this all works out once it really gets up and running.

tlwmkw

DanCali said:

You pay an enrollment fee of $600 (if you bought retail) and $1600 if you bought resale. Plus $199 a year.

CORRECT


Plus you are never allowed to vote against Marriott's interests as long as you are enrolled.

Not quite. Nobody really knows yet what this voting section in the T&C means or how it will be implemented. If you vote against the interests of MVCD you might be asked to leave the club, you're vote might be voided or nothing might happen at all. Nobody's done it yet so nobody really knows.

This gives you the option to decide to redeem for points in a given year and use those somewhere else. If you own NCV Platinum you will get 3475 points. which is enough for an island view/mountain view summer week in the Caribbean but it may not get you into many other places when you want to go.

VERY MISLEADING. 3475 points will get you a summer week with the view you mentioned although I don't think there are any mountain views in the Caribbean. It will also get you a summer week at Frenchman's Cove, all units have the same view, with 500 points left over to bank for the following year. At St Kitts you can have GV and bank 775 points, OV and bank 500 points or OS and bank 150 points. At the Aruba OC you are 25 points shy of a week but with the 800 points you get for enrolling that's enough left over to cover you for 25 years. At the Aruba SC it's the same but for OF you are short about 1000 points.

You can take a look at the points chart and see if it fits your needs and if it's worth the extra cost.

Many people who have experience with II say you can do a lot better with II exchanges since Marriott's points allocations have a skim factor and you got less than the average points required to trade into your season.

Misleading. While a lot of people have experience trading Marriotts under the weeks system no one has any experience under the new system. A lot of conjecture has been posted but nobody has actually done it yet and won't until the end of this month. As far as what Dan refer's to as skim, well I've given up trying to explain that to him. As you can see by the Caribbean weeks he choose to point out you actually make points on most of the trades. I guess you are skimming Marriott.

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I think you have to look at what the points system will gain you. If you want summer vacations and you'd like trading to the Caribbean once in a while I'd advise you to join. If you want to trade equally Plat for Plat instead of Summer for Summer then you will find that points is not the way to go. The beauty of what Marriott has done for weeks owners is give us the choice. That is a hard concept to get across to some folks on this board.

Speaking of misleading....

jimf41 said:

At the Aruba OC you are 25 points shy of a week but with the 800 points you get for enrolling that's enough left over to cover you for 25 years. At the Aruba SC it's the same but for OF you are short about 1000 points.

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This is the misleading quote of the century!

First off, short 25 points or 1000 is still short. There is nothing misleading about that. If you are short you cannot book it unless you spend more money. The NCV will only get a Garden View in Aruba (you may be correct about Frenchman's Cove or St. Kitts - I didn't check - I checked Aruba and may have generalized to Caribbean... that's the most I'm guilty of). Maybe I should have said you can't get any 2BR in Hawaii ANYTIME OF THE YEAR and that I don't even need to look at the charts to know it's probably true... is that better now?

Second of all HOW IN THE WORLD CAN THE ONE-TIME BONUS 800 POINTS THAT EXPIRE ON DEC 31, 2011 COVER YOU FOR 25 YEARS???

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!????

The fact that 800/25 is 32 rather than 25 is besides the point.... the points expire at the end of 2011!!

jimf41 said:

While a lot of people have experience trading Marriotts under the weeks system no one has any experience under the new system. A lot of conjecture has been posted but nobody has actually done it yet and won't until the end of this month. As far as what Dan refer's to as skim, well I've given up trying to explain that to him. As you can see by the Caribbean weeks he choose to point out you actually make points on most of the trades. I guess you are skimming Marriott.

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My statement you refer to is 100% factual... (i) Many people who have experience with II say you can do a lot better with II exchanges and (ii) Marriott's points allocations have a skim factor and you got less than the average points required to trade into your season.

What is incorrect? That people are saying you can do better with II or that each and every Mariott owner at every resort in every season got less than the average points required to trade into their season?

The definition of skimming is getting less than the average of your season. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW YOU USE YOUR POINTS. And if you don't understand that skimming has nothing to do with where and when you book I can't help that. Had I gotten the average of my season, I'd have more points left over when I booked one of those lowly weeks you keep referring to. Skim is skim.

The "reverse skim" argument is preposterous, not to mention misleading... As I said before and I'll say it again - the only argument you are making is that it's possible to make lemonade (get 7+ days) out of lemons (skim) if one can travel off season and go to resorts/weeks (home or away is irrelevant here) that require fewer points. Tell that to any owner with kids aged 3-18 and see how that works out for them... Moreover, The fact that someone who gets skimmed can travel for 2 weeks to Orlando doesn't eliminate the fact they got less points than the average of their season. Again - skim is skim.

jimf41 said:

I think you have to look at what the points system will gain you. If you want summer vacations and you'd like trading to the Caribbean once in a while I'd advise you to join. If you want to trade equally Plat for Plat instead of Summer for Summer then you will find that points is not the way to go. The beauty of what Marriott has done for weeks owners is give us the choice. That is a hard concept to get across to some folks on this board.

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Yes- it is true- Marriott has given us a choice. But the choice is not free- it comes with an initial fee, it comes with an annual fee (not bad now, but is this an introductory price), both points allocated and points cost are subject to change at any time, and Marriott takes a 10-12% slice of the pie with each transaction. Those 800 points you count on as a buffer to compensate are nice- for 2011. Come 2012, if you want those same trips, shell out $9200 for 1000 points and $400 per year in added MF's.

I own at the SC- so I can tell you factually that I was not awarded enough points to book a single week in my Platinum season. I bought an OS view- a view that Marriott itself charged almost 5K extra for- but which MVCI suddenly deemed of no greater value than an OV on June 20th. Admittedly, I can use my week to book at my home resort. But I can't use my week to trade into a resort/week that Marirott itself literally rents for half the price as the SC week I'd be relinquishing. You may not see a problem with then, and that's fine- some people got much more equitable point allocations and some feel the flexibility is worth the price because, after all, we're vacationing. That's all fine and good. But I agree with Dan that people should be aware of the skimming because it's there. If they choose to disregard it and/or feel the system works for them and the flexibility is worth the added cost, then they are making a conscious decision and who are we to say what's best for anyone else. But I think it's important to lay out the positives and the negatives of the program.

I feel totally lost in this new system.

Marriott Points

If you convert to points, as you said you may not be able to get 7 nights for your timeshare. Marriott did something a little tricky here. As a weeks owner if you want to go somewhere you simply exchange and get your week somewhere else. As a points owner you have to find out how many points it takes to go to a particular resort. Marriott asigned diffrent resorts diffrent points values, if they wanted to be fair what they would have done is keep all the points needed to stay at their resorts the same. For instance Hilton Grand Vacations used to charge the same points value to stay at all their resorts untill a few years ago when they realized if they up the amount of points it takes to stay at a resort they can sell more points to existing owners. This is what is happening here, this is not about owner convience its about Marriott selling more points.

awb said:

As a points owner you have to find out how many points it takes to go to a particular resort. Marriott assigned different resorts different points values, if they wanted to be fair what they would have done is keep all the points needed to stay at their resorts the same. For instance Hilton Grand Vacations used to charge the same points value to stay at all their resorts until a few years ago when they realized if they up the amount of points it takes to stay at a resort they can sell more points to existing owners. This is what is happening here, this is not about owner convenience its about Marriott selling more points.

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That's the whole ball of wax!

That sort of crystallizes the picture doesn't it? Before points the only variable was the maintenance fees.

Charles

Jimf41

Its pretty clear in the documentation that one cannot vote against the club and expect to stay a member of the club. So Dan is absolutely correct when he indicates that one loses their right to an independent vote. Whether that is important to an owner is obviously an individual decision. For us it may end up being the main factor that keeps us from joining.

Speaking of misleading....With regard to the 800 points given upon enrollment. They expire at the end of 2011. For many they are useless(unless of course sold . Dh and I sat down and looked at our upcooming trips. We already have air booked for Dec so to add a couple of nights in Aruba this year would be difficult. We're booked for 3 weeks in St Thomas/St. Maarten and Anguilla for May of next year and because we booked air on points, we'd have to "hope" we could chg the air to add a couple of nights in STT to use the points(assuming we'd get the "exact" dates we'd need. )...and then we normally do Aruba at the end of the year so" if "we go to Aruba and "if" the dates we desire to add on are available we can add on 2 days with the points we would get at the end of 2011. We're not about to book a trip solely to use the 800 points and there are no V clubs within driving distance of us to get away for a weekend. We could have used them in 2012 but they will have expired by then if not used..I think Marriott is counting on just that happening with many and I think it will happen because wont even realize that they can be sold or wont want to bother going through the process of selling them.

I dont need to wait to see what I can get with my 2 Aruba Gold weeks. I know for a fact that under I.I for the past 10 years I could get many good resorts in the Marriott system any season(except Xmas and new years...although I must admit I never tried for them). I have looked at trading our weeks to Hawaii on numerous occasions and was able to pull Presidents week in KoOlina, and Maui for Feb. We've traded to Hilton Head and that was a very easy trade for us and we had our choice of every single Marriott property on HH. We always stay in Aruba during U.S thanksgiving and have never had a problem getting that week. I know for a fact that we would not have enough points if we joined the program to book any of the properties in Hawaii for a full week during any season. We colud only book or own resort Sept/Oct(and yes I know we wouldnt use points for our own resort....but the fact that most of Gold season would be unavailable if we wanted to is just plian greed on the part of Marriott). Very little is available to us at all for a full week other than a few select weeks throughout the year at most properties and that is using points from a property that is consitently booked at full occupancy and very popular. In effect if we were to join it would be only to be able to get between 9 and 11 days in Hawaii for our 14 days. I sat down and calculated what we usually pay to stay at Ko olina and I can actually rent out my Aruba weeks and get the same thing that Marriott is offering us. Now we could travel to Aruba in Sept/Oct and have enough points with our allotment to actually get 16 days instaed of 14 but that would mean giving up our 13 month priority. In 10 years we have not once been denied our desired weeks and as I indicated we always travel to Aruba U.S thanksgiving.

Ive analyzed this every way I can, I've read the materials backwards and forwards. Ive banged my head against a wall considering this Ive given myself a migraine thinking about it...and as of now I dont see us joining since I see no benefit for us to do so. Now perhaps if something changes down the road we may change our minds....,but so far I see nothing whatsoever beneficial to this program, and although I must admit my impressions of Marriott have been dropping drastically over the past 2 years....this has pretty much sealed it for me. When having conversations with friends and the subject of timeshares would come up and we'd get the inevitable look when we indicated we owned I would say"Marriott isnt like other timeshare companies". Now I just wont admit to owning them....lol.

Luckybee said:

They expire at the end of 2011. For many they are useless(unless of course sold

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I believe I read in the fine print that the 800 bonus points cannot be transferred. Too bad... I had a buyer for $400 here on TUG if I chose to enroll. If I did enroll, they would be quite useless since I plan to use my weeks anyway in 2011.... That's why I'm glad there is no actual deadline to enroll (just Dec 31 deadline to get to 800 pts) - at least I can still consider it and see how it works for others.

Its pretty clear in the documentation that one cannot vote against the club and expect to stay a member of the club. So Dan is absolutely correct when he indicates that one loses their right to an independent vote. Whether that is important to an owner is obviously an individual decision. For us it may end up being the main factor that keeps us from joining.

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I think what jimf was saying is that you can enroll, agree to what Marriott wants and then still vote as you please... With that in mentality I can also not pay my MFs and avoid federal taxes too I guess...

A Good Summary Of The Basics

I'm pretty confused as to how this new program is going to work (and I've got a law degree and 30 years of experience in drafting complex legal docs - maybe I've been retired for too long and my mind has gone soft).

I would love TUG to create its own easy to understand summary of how the program will work. The more posts I read the more confused I become. And Marriott's site is not at all helpful.

I have no dog in this fight, but I will say that anyone considering joining the program under the assumption that they'd have sufficient points to travel to (enter location of your choice, such as the Caribbean in the summer) should remember that all trades are subject to availability.

I'm a Starwood Hawaii platinum owner of a 2 bdrm villa. I was sold on the SPG program because with my unit I had enough points to exchange to any 2 bdrm unit in platinum season in the entire network. That seemed like a great, flexible system. Unfortunately, I've been calling just about every day since mid-April, which is the earliest a non-owner can reserve there, and have not been able to get into St. John.

Of course, even though I've not been able to complete an exchange, I still have to pay the $109 "club" fee. One reservationist basically told me that unless I was willing to wait until the last minute, I could forget about booking the Caribbean in the winter as few owners give up their unit, instead choosing to rent them out vs. turning them in for the points. As DeniseM says often, "Why exchange a Porsche for a Pinto?"

So, I'm working on trying to do a direct exchange with another owner in hopes that we can both get what we want without using the flawed exchange network.

You are not required to use points to book a week at your home resort. You can still book your home resort exactly as you always have. If however, you CHOOSE to trade your week for points in any given year then I would certainly not attempt to use the points to get into your home resort. That is a exercise in pure futility. THe points you garner by trading your week can be used in a variety of ways but using them to trade back into your home resort is certainly not something a thinking person would do.

Thanks for any input on any possible advantage to joining the 'new deal' that I may have missed in regard to our Platinum NCV ownership.

Click to expand...

Hello from a fellow NCV owner (in both seasons). IMO, the new program will turn upon what your desired vacation pattern is, how many weeks you own (if more than one) and your costs of enrollment. I hope you did better this morning than I did

If you're a person who likes to stay in one place, and a week is your preferred timeframe, I'd counsel waiting, especially if you're a developer owner, and seeing how this new program works in reality. You can still compete against me for summer weeks, snag a good one and occupy, or rent it out, or deposit it in II (or any exchange company that will take it) or direct exchange it with another timeshare owner. All good.

You can save a few bucks on II membership if you join DC and enroll but the payback of the enrollment fee is the sticky wicket. Not bad if a developer owner but more substantial if a resale owner. With either, to make it fly, you must remain continuously enrolled (it automatically bills you each year unless you say 'no') year after year after year, as long as you own at NCV. Being a non-lockoff owner, your recovery of potential lockoff-related fees, including exchange fees, is non-existent, which limits some fee advantages of the DC program. Depending on your ownership (developer or resale), there might be value in the MRP option if you utilize (or wish to utilize) the Marriott hotel system and their reward program.

When I bought at NCV, the sales staff merely showed us around and literally said 'the resort sells itself'. Back then, and even now, taking Marriott out of the picture, I think that is still true. Back then, exchanging was an afterthought. They didn't even talk about the 'book'.

Do you think this new system 'sells itself'? Look at it as if you were 'buying in' as a new developer owner, paying retail. Will it enhance your ownership of NCV? Only you know the answer to that question.

Me, I just put another week up for rent. Rent-swap is where it's at

Good luck

Wow! When you guys go attack dog you don't fool around. Ok Dan Cali first.

Dan,
Calm down and take a breath once in awhile. Not everyone shares your dislike of the new system. Responding in bold, red letter caps is called shouting on the internet. No need to shout to get your point across.

"Second of all HOW IN THE WORLD CAN THE ONE-TIME BONUS 800 POINTS THAT EXPIRE ON DEC 31, 2011 COVER YOU FOR 25 YEARS???

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!????

The fact that 800/25 is 32 rather than 25 is besides the point.... the points expire at the end of 2011!!"

Let's say you enroll and your week is worth 3975 points. The place you want to go is 4000 points. You reserve the week using your 800 point bonus and the 3975 points. That leaves you with an excess of 775 points. Not 775 of the bonus points but 775 of your turn in weeks points. You can roll those over to the next year and if you go to the same place you'll have 750 points left over for the year after that. In accounting I think it's called FIFO but DaveM or another accountant can explain that better than I can. Yes I did confirm that that is how it works with MVCD.

Using that method an NVC week at 3475 points, plus the 800 points for enrollment, will get you into a 2b OS/OV at the Surf Club during the summer for the next 32 years. Is this fair? Not IMO. But my son is currently staying in two 1bdrm Gold Ocean point units that I picked up for two L/O silver units at the same resort. That's not fair either. I made out on that deal but somebody lost. The point is the new system can be exploited just like the old system.

"My statement you refer to is 100% factual... (i) Many people who have experience with II say you can do a lot better with II exchanges and (ii) Marriott's points allocations have a skim factor and you got less than the average points required to trade into your season."

No matter how many people you talk to their opinions remain just that, opinions. No one has any factual data on how the new system is going to affect future trades either weeks or points. Let me point out the obvious. This is because no trades under the new system have taken place yet. I don't think we'll have a good sense of this for at least a year or two.

Last, we'll never see eye to eye on skim. I've given case by case examples of how an owner can skim Marriott. You refuse to believe it. This is denying reality. Your credibility suffers when you do that.

KathyPet said:

If however, you CHOOSE to trade your week for points in any given year then I would certainly not attempt to use the points to get into your home resort. That is a exercise in pure futility. THe points you garner by trading your week can be used in a variety of ways but using them to trade back into your home resort is certainly not something a thinking person would do.

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Kathy this is not entirely true. Since this is a therad on NCV that is actually a perfect example to talk about.

NCV Platinum got 3475 points
The Platinum season is weeks 23-25 and 27-51.
Trading into the June through mid-September weeks is 4200-4700 points
Trading in the mid-September to mid-December weeks is 2900 points

The average required to trade into a Platinum week at NCV is 3706 points
The difference between 3706 and 3475 is the "skim factor" (231 points)
You incur this skimming cost the moment you let Marriott know you want to use points - and this cost is incurred no matter what you do wih the points.

Now, note that rather than booking a week as a "week", you can book many "off-season" weeks within the Platinum season weeks using 2900 points and have 575 points left over. Or you can book 8 (maybe 9) nights during that period with the points you got.

Note that just becase I booked one of those weeks doesn't mean there was no skim. Had i gotten the full 3706 points I may have been able to book an additional night or had 806 points left over (rather than 575) when booking a full week for 2900 points. All it means is that you took the number of points you got (after getting skimmed) and booked more than 7 nights somewhere. The fact that it happened to be at NCV which is the "home resort" is irrelevant once you convert to points. It could have been 9 days at NCV, 14 days or Orlando or 17 days in Branson - once you convert to points there is no more "home resort". You use the points in whatever method works best for you - high season, low season, single stay, multiple stays, short stays, long stays etc.

But it is important to realize and remember that, no matter how you use the points, you got less points than the average in your season - and that's the "skimming"...

P.S. For the record - jimf41 believes that if he books 7 nights at NCV in November, then he's skimming Marriott becaue he has 575 points left over... hopefully this post explains quite well why that is not the case...

m61376 said:

Yes- it is true- Marriott has given us a choice. But the choice is not free- it comes with an initial fee, it comes with an annual fee (not bad now, but is this an introductory price), both points allocated and points cost are subject to change at any time, and Marriott takes a 10-12% slice of the pie with each transaction. Those 800 points you count on as a buffer to compensate are nice- for 2011. Come 2012, if you want those same trips, shell out $9200 for 1000 points and $400 per year in added MF's.

I never said this was free. I think I answered the 800 point thing in my reply to DanCali. No 1000 point purchase required.

I own at the SC- so I can tell you factually that I was not awarded enough points to book a single week in my Platinum season. I bought an OS view- a view that Marriott itself charged almost 5K extra for- but which MVCI suddenly deemed of no greater value than an OV on June 20th. Admittedly, I can use my week to book at my home resort. But I can't use my week to trade into a resort/week that Marirott itself literally rents for half the price as the SC week I'd be relinquishing. You may not see a problem with then, and that's fine- some people got much more equitable point allocations and some feel the flexibility is worth the price because, after all, we're vacationing. That's all fine and good. But I agree with Dan that people should be aware of the skimming because it's there. If they choose to disregard it and/or feel the system works for them and the flexibility is worth the added cost, then they are making a conscious decision and who are we to say what's best for anyone else. But I think it's important to lay out the positives and the negatives of the program.

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Oh I definitely see a problem there. My fixed week 2b in MFC won't get me into any OV unit in Waiohai anytime during the year using points. That's ridiculous. But, Marriott has left me an out. I'll trade my fixed week as a week and I should be able to get some plat week in Waiohai. You can do the same with your Aruba week. In December of 2008 two 2b units at Waiohai came up for the the two weeks before Christmas with two silver L/O at Ocean Pointe. I just didn't have enough leave left to use them. Trades like this will still be available, not with points but then you have your choice of which method suits you best.

As far as using points to trade back into your own resort in most cases that's a loser so why would you even be concerned with it if you can still reserve your week as usual. I'll do it every year with my Silver weeks at Ocean Pointe because I make points on the deal. I can't believe that Ocean Pointe is the only resort in the system where this is possible.

The whole story

I really think this whole thing is going to end up a horror story for everyone, especially those joining. My feeling is that they need weeks to get their program going but that eventually Marriott will force all weeks members inside to go points .. Either with greatly increased fees on weeks or very poor inside availability due to those who do not join, and inside members have no control (or vote). Scares the heck out of me.

At least staying the same as we are now outside the plan entirely, we have more control due to the deed and that we haven't given marriott the ok to do anything they want. Joining means that Marriott makes more money from you than they could before.

I was starting to bend a little towards 'trying' the weeks part of the new program due to the positives presented here but the negatives outweigh the positives in these posts. Seems like my best plan is to stay outside and watch what could be a slaughter while Marriott has to treat outsiders with kid gloves in hopes of convincing them to join so the new plan isn't a miserable failure.

My other concern is what so many others have said -- a strong resentment for not giving every platinum owner sufficient points to book any platinum time for the same points ... The skim as you all call it, and that's the icing on the cake for Marriott and all the salespeople who get 40% of your membership fees and purchased points for not telling you the whole story. It is not a win-win.

I'm back on the other side of the fence again ... Looking forward to being able to trade my studios for 2 bdrm suites as before. Have fun.

Brian

DanCali said:

P.S. For the record - jimf41 believes that if he books 7 nights at NCV in November, then he's skimming Marriott becaue he has 575 points left over... hopefully this post explains quite well why that is not the case...

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If you are going to quote someone then do it. Don't attribute your misconceptions to others.

jimf41 said:

Ok Dan Cali first.

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I missed the second - or will that be a different post

jimf41 said:

Let's say you enroll and your week is worth 3975 points. The place you want to go is 4000 points. You reserve the week using your 800 point bonus and the 3975 points. That leaves you with an excess of 775 points. Not 775 of the bonus points but 775 of your turn in weeks points. You can roll those over to the next year and if you go to the same place you'll have 750 points left over for the year after that. In accounting I think it's called FIFO but DaveM or another accountant can explain that better than I can. Yes I did confirm that that is how it works with MVCD.

Using that method an NVC week at 3475 points, plus the 800 points for enrollment, will get you into a 2b OS/OV at the Surf Club during the summer for the next 32 years. Is this fair?

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Nice strategy. I understand what you are doing, but for the average person it will break down... here's why.

The relevant numbers are NCV got 3475 points (+800 bonus) and Aruba OV is 3500 points to book.

You want to do:

Year 1: Book Aruba OV for 800 bonus points + 2700 points. Bank 775.
Year 2: Book Aruba OV for 775 banked points + 2725 points. Bank 750.
Year 3: Book Aruba OV for 750 bonus points + 2750 points. Bank 725.
etc for 32 years

But what if I use the home resort in year 2...?
Year 1: Book Aruba OV for 775 bonus points + 2725 points. Bank 750.
Year 2: Use home resort in a peak week. Forced to use or expire 750 points...

The strategy fell apart after 1 year. In year 3 I'll be short points again because of the skim factor... The 800 bonus points are a one time grant. The skim is perpetual.

I place a value of $400 on the 800 points. I place a value of $115 on the 231 points I'm skimmed each time I convert to points...