Moderator warning: Stay on topic re points! Limit debates!

Dave M · Jul 10, 2010

I have received numerous complaints about the endless debates in many, many threads over the same points issues. Starting now, and for at least a couple of weeks, I will liberally delete posts that are not directly related to the topic of any points thread started after I post this. I have already started closing threads that go off track and will do more of that.

You may respond to a question, but no debating of the same old issues is permitted in such new threads. If you want to debate an issue that seems related to the topic, find an existing thread with a similar debate and suggest to others that they "meet you" in that thread. If you wish to disagree with a post that is directly related to the topic, you may respond once in the thread with a link to an earlier post that you might have made in another thread that explains your position and no more than one short sentence stating that you disagree (but not why).

There are a relatively few people here who seem to have made it their goal in life to convince others of their position for or against the points system or about what Marriott will or won't do in certain situations. Although debating might be fun, it is making it extremely difficult for interested participants to find the info they need to make decisions about the points system. Thus, please find another activity that doesn't disrupt this forum.

Lawlar · Jul 10, 2010

We Need A Good Debate

I hope this doesn’t mean that Dave M is going to delete posts that are unfavorable to Marriott’s program. I admire the TUGGERS who have warned prospective timeshare buyers of the risks involved in buying timeshares from the developer (the advantages of buying resale, rising MFs, and detrimental changes to the program).

Marriott’s Points program is not all positive. Some of us believe it threatens the value of the original system. One person’s debate is another person’s discussion. Our thrashing out the pros and cons of the point system will hopefully prove valuable to those who are considering Marriott’s offer to join its new system.

I don’t think we should drink the Marriott cool-aid without a strong debate of the pros and cons.

winger · Jul 10, 2010

Lawlar said:
I hope this doesn’t mean that Dave M is going to delete posts that are unfavorable to Marriott’s program. I admire the TUGGERS who have warned prospective timeshare buyers of the risks involved in buying timeshares from the developer (the advantages of buying resale, rising MFs, and detrimental changes to the program).

Marriott’s Points program is not all positive. Some of us believe it threatens the value of the original system. One person’s debate is another person’s discussion. Our thrashing out the pros and cons of the point system will hopefully prove valuable to those who are considering Marriott’s offer to join its new system.

I don’t think we should drink the Marriott cool-aid without a strong debate of the pros and cons.

Strong debate and dissemination of info and ideas is is wanted/welcomed, but repeats of the same points by the same people to the same people and what was turning out to be grownups 'hissing' at one another was getting very tiresome. I am here trying to learn info about the new system, not watch re-runs of a soap opera.

Dave M · Jul 10, 2010

I have no personal bias towards or against the new program. (As I have previously posted, I have not decided whether to enroll.) Thus, if I delete posts, they will be on both sides of issues. Normally, the first post in a thread to be deleted will be the first one in that fails to follow the above rule, no matter whether it is pro or con.

There is ample room for debate. But not at the expense of derailing threads, especially when the issue being debated has already been debated endlessly in other threads, usually by the some of the same people.

ondeadlin · Jul 10, 2010

I'm really disappointed in this.

And, to be clear, I'm not involved in ANY of these debates.

But I feel like since this plan has been announced, Dave, you have acted to stifle debate, particularly debate you disagree with. You have really used your position in a way that I think is inappropriate. It's fine to have an opinion, but I think your opinion is really influencing your moderation.

I've never criticized a TUG moderator before. It's extremely disappointing.

I will probably have to take it up with the management at this point, of course.

tombo · Jul 10, 2010

Dave M said:
There is ample room for debate. But not at the expense of derailing threads, especially when the issue being debated has already been debated endlessly in other threads, usually by the some of the same people.

Using this criteria you can just lock all threads as soon as they start because marriott has not released any new information since June 20th, so new facts will not be presented. Everything being discussed on every marriott thread regarding points is simply a variation or regurgitation of another thread, topic, discussion, or debate that has already occurred. Why not just shut the whole Marriott forum and let everyone read the posts that already exist?

BocaBum99 · Jul 10, 2010

ondeadlin said:
I'm really disappointed in this.

And, to be clear, I'm not involved in ANY of these debates.

But I feel like since this plan has been announced, Dave, you have acted to stifle debate, particularly debate you disagree with. You have really used your position in a way that I think is inappropriate. It's fine to have an opinion, but I think your opinion is really influencing your moderation.

I've never criticized a TUG moderator before. It's extremely disappointing.

I will probably have to take it up with the management at this point, of course.

I don't know. I think it's a no-win for the moderator of a board such as this one.

Either leave it alone and it becomes a free for all. Or, you delete/modify posts and feelings get hurt.

I view it like anything else. Dave's the moderator, he makes the calls. If you don't like it, there are other message boards with different moderating rules or you can sign up to be moderator.

If there is one thing I know about DaveM, he will follow the rules religiously. If he sets a rule, he's going to follow it to the letter and apply it consistently.

BocaBum99 · Jul 10, 2010

tombo said:
Using this criteria you can just lock all threads as soon as they start because marriott has not released any new information since June 20th, so new facts will not be presented. Everything being discussed on every marriott thread regarding points is simply a variation or regurgitation of another thread, topic, discussion, or debate that has already occurred. Why not just shut the whole Marriott forum and let everyone read the posts that already exist?

I think what Dave is saying is that we can make an argument, but only make it once per thread and make sure it's relevant to the topic of the thread. Seems reasonable to me.

ondeadlin · Jul 10, 2010

Well, Boca, I'd debate your points, but ...

;-)

dioxide45 · Jul 10, 2010

I thought the whole purpose was for discussion/debate? In the end most questions lead to the same basic pros/cons of the system. Whatever the topic of a thread, all threads ultimately lead to the same discussion.

I guess everyone on both sides of the fence just need to agree to disagree and all talk of points would end.

BocaBum99 · Jul 10, 2010

ondeadlin said:
Well, Boca, I'd debate your points, but ...

;-)

LOL. The key strategy now should be waiting for everyone to get their arguments out and then make your argument. When you see your adversary repeat his argument, click on the !.

Clemson Fan · Jul 11, 2010

I agree with DaveM. Most of the threads nowadays are frankly getting hijacked and the same points/counterpoints are being debated ad nauseum. It does seem like certain people are making it their new life's goal to lead a charge to convince everybody to boycott the new points system.

dioxide45 · Jul 11, 2010

Clemson Fan said:
I agree with DaveM. Most of the threads nowadays are frankly getting hijacked and the same points/counterpoints are being debated ad nauseum. It does seem like certain people are making it their new life's goal to lead a charge to convince everybody to boycott the new points system.

So it is only those against the system that are in the wrong? I hope and don't think that is what DaveM is saying.

Clemson Fan · Jul 11, 2010

dioxide45 said:
So it is only those against the system that are in the wrong? I hope and don't think that is what DaveM is saying.

Nobody is in the "wrong", but it does seem like tombo in particular is crusading trying to convince everybody not to join the points program. Nearly every thread that has anything to do with points contains many of these posts from tombo.

cruisin · Jul 11, 2010

The new program and Marriott's new posture toward owners makes it pretty tough to not creep into all issues. Though I totally disagree with this type of modding, and AGAIN, ANOTHER BAD RESULT OF MARRIOTTS NEW POINT SYSTEM, IT IS EVEN CHANGING TUG ( that was for you TOMBO) it will be fun to watch everybodys one shot in each thread, it will really hone our skills!!

dioxide45 · Jul 11, 2010

Dave M said:
There are a relatively few people here who seem to have made it their goal in life to convince others of their position for or against the points system or about what Marriott will or won't do in certain situations.

Why weren't these relative few delt with individually instead of a blanket statement that puts a negative cast over the entire board?

It seems too often that we blast everyone instead of dealing with the troublemakers. I see this in the workplace every day. Hold a meeting or send out an e-mail that only pertains to a few.

ondeadlin · Jul 11, 2010

It's a message board. If Tombo annoys people, they'll stop responding to him. That's how message boards work.

Message boards that start deciding what is "approved" conversation usually become very boring very fast. Especially when one person's opinion is apparently the only criteria for what is, and is not, allowed.

BocaBum99 · Jul 11, 2010

DanCali · Jul 11, 2010

Clemson Fan said:
Nobody is in the "wrong", but it does seem like tombo in particular is crusading trying to convince everybody not to join the points program. Nearly every thread that has anything to do with points contains many of these posts from tombo.

So every time someone suggests to join the points program to keep using weeks (because this is the best argument so far in favor of the Marriott points program... "join and use weeks") that's ok? But if someone feels that there will be a big cost to that strategy down the road they should not repeat themselves? If someone keeps saying that it's possible to skim points from Marriott that's ok, but is someone vehemently disagrees with that argument it's not ok to respond every time that comes up?

Tombo is repeating himself because other people are repeating themselves... I'm repeating myself because new threads keep popping up and/or the same arguments on the other side of the debate are posted over and over too. But as long as there are people who seek advice, why not let them hear both sides of the argument? If you are sick of hearing tombo (or me for that matter) you should know that TUG does have an ignore feature - if you use it you won't see any of our posts...

cruisin · Jul 11, 2010

DanCali said:
So every time someone suggests to join the points program to keep using weeks (because this is the best argument so far in favor of the Marriott points program... "join and use weeks") that's ok? But if someone feels that there will be a big cost to that strategy down the road they should not repeat themselves? If someone keeps saying that it's possible to skim points from Marriott that's ok, but is someone vehemently disagrees with that argument it's not ok to respond every time that comes up?

Tombo is repeating himself because other people are repeating themselves... I'm repeating myself because new threads keep popping up and/or the same arguments on the other side of the debate are posted over and over too. But as long as there are people who seek advice, why not let them hear both sides of the argument? If you are sick of hearing tombo (or me for that matter) you should know that TUG does have an ignore feature - if you use it you won't see any of our posts...

Now you will only get 1 shot, a lot like that 1 time marriott deal only good for today if you buy points right now.

brigechols · Jul 11, 2010

DanCali said:
you should know that TUG does have an ignore feature - if you use it you won't see any of our posts...

I agree and advocated this step in another thread.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=924343&highlight=ignore#post924343

Beverley · Jul 11, 2010

Thanks, Dave. Good call. You have my support on this.

Beverley

sernow · Jul 11, 2010

Boo. I found TUG when I needed info the most and have always appreciated the free flow of information and vigorous debate, most of which is friendly. This is a huge issue that effects all Marriott owners greatly and the more debate, the better.

I don't like the idea that it appears the supporters of Marriott's new points program have been able to stifle those who oppose the system using a method other than debate.

Dave M · Jul 11, 2010

DanCali said:
So every time someone suggests to join the points program to keep using weeks (because this is the best argument so far in favor of the Marriott points program... "join and use weeks") that's ok? But if someone feels that there will be a big cost to that strategy down the road they should not repeat themselves? If someone keeps saying that it's possible to skim points from Marriott that's ok, but is someone vehemently disagrees with that argument it's not ok to respond every time that comes up?

Good post, Dan. Neither is okay. It matters not which side of the fence you are on.

Tombo is repeating himself because other people are repeating themselves... I'm repeating myself because new threads keep popping up and/or the same arguments on the other side of the debate are posted over and over too. But as long as there are people who seek advice, why not let them hear both sides of the argument?

Yes, they should be able to hear both sides. And because both sides have usually been debated numerous times, you can do them a service by providing a link to one or more of those debates.

windje2000 · Jul 11, 2010

BocaBum99 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

Moderator warning: Stay on topic re points! Limit debates!

Dave M

Lawlar

winger

Dave M

ondeadlin

tombo

Tug Review Crew: Rookie

BocaBum99

BocaBum99

ondeadlin

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert

BocaBum99

Clemson Fan

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert

Clemson Fan

cruisin

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert

ondeadlin

BocaBum99

DanCali

cruisin

brigechols

Beverley

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

sernow

Dave M

windje2000