What Is The Appeal Of A Points System?

Lawlar · Jul 20, 2010

For my wife and me the allure of our Marriott timeshare was that we were purchasing a piece of property – a deeded interest. That interest could be held for life then left to our heirs. I always wanted to own property in Maui, so the idea of owning a week of oceanfront property had an appeal, even if I knew intellectually that it was obscenely overpriced (multiply the cost of one week times 52 and you see how ridiculous the purchase price was). But whether the purchase was wise or foolish, as long as we could pay the MFs, we owned our deeded interest in “our unit” every fourth week of the year.

I suspect that the attraction of owning a “real estate deed” was an effective selling point for the salespeople. The presentations we attended always included the salesreps suggesting in various ways, subtle and direct, that real estate always appreciates in value and the different phases of Marriott’s developments always come on the market at a higher price.

So why is Marriott going to a points system? What is the appeal of buying points? Wouldn’t a prospective customer conclude that it makes more sense to pay cash every year than to buy into a difficult to understand system based on points that can be depreciated?

Is Marriott going to guarantee that a certain amount of points will always be worth one week’s stay at certain resorts? DaveM’s very helpful sticky explaining the points system says that a new customer will have to pay a minimum of $36,800, with yearly MFs of $1,600 (gee, our MOC fees don’t seem so bad after reading that figure), in order to have a useful package for top resorts.

I guess good salesreps can sell swimsuits to Eskimos, but will this new program be as appealing to prospective customers as when the reps could point to a new building and say: “how would you like to own a piece of this choice real estate?

I don’t understand the appeal of points. I would love to read opinions of why Marriott has shifted from the old concept of selling deeds and why anyone would be interested in buying these murky points.

GregT · Jul 20, 2010

Lawlar,

I really like point systems -- I belong to two of them. A point system (as I think of it) really does provide the flexibility of being able to travel exactly as you want to/need to, or as things change:

1) Arrive Friday instead of Saturday?
2) Stay six days instead of seven?
3) Only take a 1BR instead of a 2BR?
4) Take two smaller vacations instead of one long one?
5) 11 day stays in the same unit (starting on Thursday?)
6) Rent points if you need a bigger/longer stay?

So point systems in general can be very user friendly. I love worldmark and would love to put the Worldmark point system on top of the Marriott portfolio of properties.

As a owner of fixed week units at MOC, I bought those weeks for the same reasons you did -- I wanted that unit, that week, forever. It's the primary vacation for my family and I "recruit", ie I get as many of my friends and family to go to Maui during the same period so it's like a reunion.

So I think I have the best of both.

The concept of a point system for Marriott is appealing to both parties -- both Marriott and the buyer (setting price aside for a minute). Marriott gets to resell all of its existing properties (the best in the timeshare world) over and over and over again. It's a great sales pitch (one year go to Maui, next year to Tahoe, etc).

The buyer also gets intoxicated by the ability to pick and choose where to go, and didn't have the sales rep pushing the value of the deed (like they did on June 16th and before). They feel they can buy a small package and bank/borrow and trade up.

I'm sure others will chime in as well, but those were my thoughts.

All the best,

Greg

pipet · Jul 20, 2010

A lot of people wish TSing could be more flexible, so points type systems address that. You can now turn your ownership into several long weekends (assuming enough pts to book those weekends). You can book on the days that correspond to the best airfares. You can stay 6 days or 8 days or 12... whatever your points will allow.

I actually think the points idea can be positive, although owning a deeded week can be, too. It is nice to have a little piece of HI, but a lot of people don't want to be tied to any one place, even HI... sacrilege, I know!

The sales guys will now say you are buying a piece of all the Marriotts, not one, so you are not restricted to a home resort. The trust owns a good amount of weeks in several resorts, so they technically own a share at several resorts.

Lawlar, doesn't your week cost around 8650 pts to reserve? Ignoring the initial point buy in cost, the MFs on the points required to book that would be $3460! That's a lot of paying for everyone else's II exchange fees!

I actually would like a point system for Marriott, but I think they missed the boat on a few key aspects to get us to all want to jump ship and convert (there's a thread on what you would do to improve it...)

pfrank4127 · Jul 20, 2010

Lawlar said:
For my wife and me the allure of our Marriott timeshare was that we were purchasing a piece of property – a deeded interest. That interest could be held for life then left to our heirs. I always wanted to own property in Maui, so the idea of owning a week of oceanfront property had an appeal, even if I knew intellectually that it was obscenely overpriced (multiply the cost of one week times 52 and you see how ridiculous the purchase price was). But whether the purchase was wise or foolish, as long as we could pay the MFs, we owned our deeded interest in “our unit” every fourth week of the year.

I suspect that the attraction of owning a “real estate deed” was an effective selling point for the salespeople. The presentations we attended always included the salesreps suggesting in various ways, subtle and direct, that real estate always appreciates in value and the different phases of Marriott’s developments always come on the market at a higher price.

So why is Marriott going to a points system? What is the appeal of buying points? Wouldn’t a prospective customer conclude that it makes more sense to pay cash every year than to buy into a difficult to understand system based on points that can be depreciated?

Is Marriott going to guarantee that a certain amount of points will always be worth one week’s stay at certain resorts? DaveM’s very helpful sticky explaining the points system says that a new customer will have to pay a minimum of $36,800, with yearly MFs of $1,600 (gee, our MOC fees don’t seem so bad after reading that figure), in order to have a useful package for top resorts.

I guess good salesreps can sell swimsuits to Eskimos, but will this new program be as appealing to prospective customers as when the reps could point to a new building and say: “how would you like to own a piece of this choice real estate?

I don’t understand the appeal of points. I would love to read opinions of why Marriott has shifted from the old concept of selling deeds and why anyone would be interested in buying these murky points.

Marriott is still selling a "real estate deed" that can be deeded to your heirs; instead of just owning a small portion of one resort NOW you own a small portion of 50 resorts.

The points element allows added flexibility to owners. You buy enough points and you can go ANYWHERE and ANY TIME you want.

The salesmen now have an easier time; they don't have to get someone to spend $40,000 now for a smaller investment of $13,800 you can buy a piece of the DREAM.

I'm not saying if I was a new customer I would buy Marriott points but if I was selling the product that would be my spin. I did enroll my two weeks in the program because I like the advantages that the new program offers me but I'm glad I owned what I did prior to the point system roll-out.

Numismatist · Jul 20, 2010

Interesting...I was and am still very nervous about the whole concept of a deeded week going to your heirs. I don't really want my kids saddled with MFs that they may not want nor can afford. I don't see that as a benefit; also, it ties up your estate until my kids agree to accept the responsibility of paying the MFs each year.

I fully intend to dump my TS before I go even if at a loss so they won't have to deal with it. If they want one, they know about TUG and resales, so they can buy one - one that they want and can afford.

Points or not, TS lasting beyond your death are not good in my opinion.

gblotter · Jul 20, 2010

In our family we joke about the personalities of "ants" versus "grasshoppers". We find the analogy can be applied to a wide variety of situations.

In the context of timeshares, I think the ants value certainty and the grasshoppers value spontaneity.

Given that we return to our home resorts again and again, I think you can guess that I am an ant. No surprise that I view this new points system as a betrayal of trust.

My mother-in-law (the ultimate grasshopper) can't ever make up her mind about how to use their several Marriott weeks. I suspect the new points system will have great appeal for her. She'll appreciate the increased ability to change her plans whenever she feels like it.

SueDonJ · Jul 20, 2010

Numismatist said:
Interesting...I was and am still very nervous about the whole concept of a deeded week going to your heirs. I don't really want my kids saddled with MFs that they may not want nor can afford. I don't see that as a benefit; also, it ties up your estate until my kids agree to accept the responsibility of paying the MFs each year.

I fully intend to dump my TS before I go even if at a loss so they won't have to deal with it. If they want one, they know about TUG and resales, so they can buy one - one that they want and can afford.

Points or not, TS lasting beyond your death are not good in my opinion.

That's my opinion, too.

I like the flexibility that Greg mentions:

1) Arrive Friday instead of Saturday?
2) Stay six days instead of seven?
3) Only take a 1BR instead of a 2BR?
4) Take two smaller vacations instead of one long one?
5) 11 day stays in the same unit (starting on Thursday?)
6) Rent points if you need a bigger/longer stay?

In addition, I love the banking/borrowing options. Especially as we near retirement and have plans to move to the Hilton Head area, I can envision us using our home resorts for shorter stays or on a day-pass basis that will be within minutes of home while using banked/borrowed points to take bigger trips away every third year or so.

We'll probably then be more likely to take advantage of the MRP-exchange option to travel away from our home resort area, as well. The air/hotel packages or air/5-night MVCI packages might appeal more to us then when it's just the two of us traveling, whereas now we generally invite our adult kids and other family members to join us. (Although that MRP option is available to us without enrolling, but I'm mentioning it as a benefit for Enrolled external resale weeks.)

RedDogSD · Jul 20, 2010

GregT said:
Lawlar,

I really like point systems -- I belong to two of them. A point system (as I think of it) really does provide the flexibility of being able to travel exactly as you want to/need to, or as things change:

1) Arrive Friday instead of Saturday?
2) Stay six days instead of seven?
3) Only take a 1BR instead of a 2BR?
4) Take two smaller vacations instead of one long one?
5) 11 day stays in the same unit (starting on Thursday?)
6) Rent points if you need a bigger/longer stay?

So point systems in general can be very user friendly. I love worldmark and would love to put the Worldmark point system on top of the Marriott portfolio of properties.

As a owner of fixed week units at MOC, I bought those weeks for the same reasons you did -- I wanted that unit, that week, forever. It's the primary vacation for my family and I "recruit", ie I get as many of my friends and family to go to Maui during the same period so it's like a reunion.

So I think I have the best of both.

The concept of a point system for Marriott is appealing to both parties -- both Marriott and the buyer (setting price aside for a minute). Marriott gets to resell all of its existing properties (the best in the timeshare world) over and over and over again. It's a great sales pitch (one year go to Maui, next year to Tahoe, etc).

The buyer also gets intoxicated by the ability to pick and choose where to go, and didn't have the sales rep pushing the value of the deed (like they did on June 16th and before). They feel they can buy a small package and bank/borrow and trade up.

I'm sure others will chime in as well, but those were my thoughts.

All the best,

Greg

While I totally agree that the Points systems provide more flexibility than the traditional "weeks" systems, what I never understand is; Why do I want to BUY the right to pay for something every year and then use it like Cash.

Isn't Cash the ultimate Points system? Is has all of the flexibility of points, and then some.

I used to think that even "week" based Timeshares were a terrible investment, but then I learned how to manipulate the system. This year, I am getting 5 weeks of vacation (2 weeks in a 2 bedroom, 2 weeks in a 1 bedroom and 1 week in a studio) from one $584/annual fee Timeshare that I paid $99 for (plus 5 exchange fees). So, I know that I cannot beat that with pure cash transactions.

However, for points systems, you will never get that kind of value.

Everyone who has ever considered buying developer should seriously consider their own points system. Take your purchase price (buying enough points for a week at Maui Ocean Club in 2 bedroom Oceanfront during good season costs $71,000 or more) and put it into an interest bearing account. Each Year, add in your $3000 of Maintenance Fees to the account. When you need to vacation, draw money from the account. You have the ULTIMATE flexibility. You can get 1 night, or 100 nights. You can get a Hotel Room, or rent a 10 bedroom house anywhere in the world. Anyone who tells you that there are areas that you cannot get with rentals are lying. If they are selling timeshares, then someone is renting them.

Do this for 30 years. I guarantee that you will end up ahead, even if you got the points for nothing. Marriott has made the Maint Fees on their points system more expensive than renting.

Bill4728 · Jul 20, 2010

Marriott isn't one but there are some points systems where you can use your pts to reserve several low cost weeks and they trade them for high value weeks with RCI & II. Wyndham 28K deposits ( blue studio) can often get a 2 bd red week at high supply regions. And with my Club Intrawest I can often trade off season studios for shoulder season 2 bd weeks even in high demand areas. So instead of 1 week in a 2 bd, I can use my pts to reserve 4 studio weeks of vacation and almost all the time get 1-2 bd units at great resorts.

ilene13 · Jul 20, 2010

Lawlar said:
For my wife and me the allure of our Marriott timeshare was that we were purchasing a piece of property – a deeded interest. That interest could be held for life then left to our heirs. I always wanted to own property in Maui, so the idea of owning a week of oceanfront property had an appeal, even if I knew intellectually that it was obscenely overpriced (multiply the cost of one week times 52 and you see how ridiculous the purchase price was). But whether the purchase was wise or foolish, as long as we could pay the MFs, we owned our deeded interest in “our unit” every fourth week of the year.

I suspect that the attraction of owning a “real estate deed” was an effective selling point for the salespeople. The presentations we attended always included the salesreps suggesting in various ways, subtle and direct, that real estate always appreciates in value and the different phases of Marriott’s developments always come on the market at a higher price.

So why is Marriott going to a points system? What is the appeal of buying points? Wouldn’t a prospective customer conclude that it makes more sense to pay cash every year than to buy into a difficult to understand system based on points that can be depreciated?

Is Marriott going to guarantee that a certain amount of points will always be worth one week’s stay at certain resorts? DaveM’s very helpful sticky explaining the points system says that a new customer will have to pay a minimum of $36,800, with yearly MFs of $1,600 (gee, our MOC fees don’t seem so bad after reading that figure), in order to have a useful package for top resorts.

I guess good salesreps can sell swimsuits to Eskimos, but will this new program be as appealing to prospective customers as when the reps could point to a new building and say: “how would you like to own a piece of this choice real estate?

I don’t understand the appeal of points. I would love to read opinions of why Marriott has shifted from the old concept of selling deeds and why anyone would be interested in buying these murky points.

I still do not think the point system is advantageous for someone like me--we use our home resorts annually. We've owned timeshares since 1980 ---we used to constantly exchange but we eventually bought and sold weeks so that we only own where we want to go. We also travel a lot and we love staying at different resorts--ie we are going to the new St Regis Bahia Beach resort in February. So, it is still up in the air whether or not we will join.
ilene

GregT · Jul 20, 2010

RedDogSD said:
While I totally agree that the Points systems provide more flexibility than the traditional "weeks" systems, what I never understand is; Why do I want to BUY the right to pay for something every year and then use it like Cash.

Isn't Cash the ultimate Points system? Is has all of the flexibility of points, and then some.

Here's where I think Marriott has a real problem with their system -- the MFs are basically equivalent to the cash cost to rent the same unit (via Redweek). So you paying $XXXX up-front to buy the points, and then you pay the full cash fair market value (in MFs). But it's the dream, not the reality that will sell that system.

Both of my point systems are pretty economical (but they don't compare to your $584 for 5 week!), and I can get properties much less expensively than if I rented with cash.

As an example, I traded a 4,000 credit Worldmark deposit (about $200 in MFs) thru Interval International and got a Ko Olina studio over President's Day next year. That's not that unusual an example, although the appeal of Worldmark as a trading property will also be impacted if there is reduced Marriott inventory in II.

We will see --

Best to all,

Greg

cruisin · Jul 20, 2010

For most who know the current system, different check in dates, 3 or 4 night stays , dosn't mean much, it is cheaper and more flexible for us to exchange for 2 or 3 back to back weeks and have whatever checkin dates we like and have an 11, 18 night or whatever stay we feel like, we don't have to worry about booking weekends or weekdays, we just have total flexibility, booking prime stuff for 10 nights at 13 months would be nice with points, but not how we vacation, I am only considering points for saving fees and locking off, but if I really cant use my own weeks in II and search like I do now, that would be a deal breaker for sure!

pwrshift · Jul 20, 2010

I get the sense many think they have to make a decision to join the program either with weeks or points or both, when in fact there's a 3rd class of those who wish to not have any change (or risk) at all and remain as 'outsiders' to continue just as they were before. If the expected 80% of owners stay outside the system how do those on the inside get access to their weeks?

Pretty sure I'm an outsider with my six weeks (10 with lockoff splits) at least until the end of the year and probably 2011 too, so I can read all the beefs and bouquets while not being affected in any way and base my decision on reviews from the risk takers. Marriott has to provide all 'outsiders' with a week in the season they bought with their deed so I don't see jumping into the fire until I know I won't get burned.

Brian

DanTheMan · Jul 20, 2010

RedDogSD said:
I used to think that even "week" based Timeshares were a terrible investment, but then I learned how to manipulate the system. This year, I am getting 5 weeks of vacation (2 weeks in a 2 bedroom, 2 weeks in a 1 bedroom and 1 week in a studio) from one $584/annual fee Timeshare that I paid $99 for (plus 5 exchange fees). So, I know that I cannot beat that with pure cash transactions.

Could you explain how to do this? I'm new and I have a week at Palm Beach Shores resort in Palm Beach, FL that I love and look forward to going back every year. Especially for the fishing. That said, i'd love to be able to exhange it for 5 weeks as you have?

How do i do this?

dioxide45 · Jul 20, 2010

IMO, MVCI watered down their entire product and brand by changing their entire model and selling only points in the future.

As mentioned there was something appealing about owning a piece of the pie. Returning to and being proud of your home resort. New owners won't get that and I doubt we would ever buy points in the Marriott product. That doesn't mean we won't enroll, though that is unlikely also.

For 25 years Marriott has sold and touted weeks ownership as the ultimate vacation experience. Now to unload some junk weeks or weeks they couldn't sell for high prices due to the economy, they come up with this idea. It will have an appeal to many and they will likely be able to be more competitive in the TS market with all the other points players, but that doesn't mean that we need to partake.

I guess Westgate is the only big developer left in the weeks only game?

terryfic · Jul 20, 2010

RedDogSD said:
While I totally agree that the Points systems provide more flexibility than the traditional "weeks" systems, what I never understand is; Why do I want to BUY the right to pay for something every year and then use it like Cash.

Isn't Cash the ultimate Points system? Is has all of the flexibility of points, and then some.

I used to think that even "week" based Timeshares were a terrible investment, but then I learned how to manipulate the system. This year, I am getting 5 weeks of vacation (2 weeks in a 2 bedroom, 2 weeks in a 1 bedroom and 1 week in a studio) from one $584/annual fee Timeshare that I paid $99 for (plus 5 exchange fees). So, I know that I cannot beat that with pure cash transactions.

However, for points systems, you will never get that kind of value.

Everyone who has ever considered buying developer should seriously consider their own points system. Take your purchase price (buying enough points for a week at Maui Ocean Club in 2 bedroom Oceanfront during good season costs $71,000 or more) and put it into an interest bearing account. Each Year, add in your $3000 of Maintenance Fees to the account. When you need to vacation, draw money from the account. You have the ULTIMATE flexibility. You can get 1 night, or 100 nights. You can get a Hotel Room, or rent a 10 bedroom house anywhere in the world. Anyone who tells you that there are areas that you cannot get with rentals are lying. If they are selling timeshares, then someone is renting them.

Do this for 30 years. I guarantee that you will end up ahead, even if you got the points for nothing. Marriott has made the Maint Fees on their points system more expensive than renting.

I agree with you, if flexibility is king, why buy, just rent. It appears that some people are throwing good money after bad by joining the points program. Is it to get the flexibility of checking in on Friday rather than Saturday or 8 days rather than 7? I really doubt that many cruises will be taken with the points given the haircut that Marriott and the cruise ships wll take.

taffy19 · Jul 20, 2010

terryfic said:
I agree with you, if flexibility is king, why buy, just rent. It appears that some people are throwing good money after bad by joining the points program. Is it to get the flexibility of checking in on Friday rather than Saturday or 8 days rather than 7? I really doubt that many cruises will be taken with the points given the haircut that Marriott and the cruise ships wll take.

I feel the same way!

hipslo · Jul 21, 2010

Lawlar said:
For my wife and me the allure of our Marriott timeshare was that we were purchasing a piece of property – a deeded interest. That interest could be held for life then left to our heirs. I always wanted to own property in Maui, so the idea of owning a week of oceanfront property had an appeal, even if I knew intellectually that it was obscenely overpriced (multiply the cost of one week times 52 and you see how ridiculous the purchase price was).

I felt the same way about Mountainside. Except that I crunched the numbers and realized I could actually buy the whole ski season (resale) for a fraction of the cost of a comparable condo. (In fact, I could buy the whole YEAR for less than the cost of a comparable condo, although I am really only interested in ski season). I only own four weeks, but if resale prices continue to fall, and I am still able to reserve the weeks I need, I will likely continue to buy more weeks over the coming years. Its a very reasonably priced alternative to a ski condo.

Points, on the other hand, hold zero appeal for me (although I did enroll, just to keep my options open for the future).

tashamen · Jul 21, 2010

Now they're calling non-owners for a sales pitch

GregT said:
I really like point systems -- I belong to two of them. A point system (as I think of it) really does provide the flexibility of being able to travel exactly as you want to/need to, or as things change:

1) Arrive Friday instead of Saturday?
2) Stay six days instead of seven?
3) Only take a 1BR instead of a 2BR?
4) Take two smaller vacations instead of one long one?
5) 11 day stays in the same unit (starting on Thursday?)
6) Rent points if you need a bigger/longer stay?

I love points too - that's why I have Club Intrawest.

I'm checking into Ocean Pointe this coming Sunday on an exchange, and got a call from them at home last night wanting to sign me up for a presentation on "the most unique and exciting development to happen in Marriott in 26 years of timesharing" (not sure if she said 26 years, but something like that). I told her that I already own in a point system - she had never heard of Club Intrawest - and so it wasn't particularly "unique" to me, and she didn't have a good comeback for that. Needless to say I didn't sign up. But it's interesting that they would call exchangers - I've exchanged into other Marriott ts (most recently earlier this year) and never gotten a sales pitch before ahead of time.

RedDogSD · Jul 21, 2010

DanTheMan said:
Could you explain how to do this? I'm new and I have a week at Palm Beach Shores resort in Palm Beach, FL that I love and look forward to going back every year. Especially for the fishing. That said, i'd love to be able to exhange it for 5 weeks as you have?

How do i do this?

Dan,

1st of all, I only buy Lockoffs. If you do not have a lockoff, then the best you will do is 2 or 3 weeks of vacation. With lockoffs, you can get 4, 5, or 6 (rarely) weeks. My first Hawaii TS was bought from a developer, and I have some strange fondness for it. Otherwise, since it is not a lockoff, I should dump it. Since I could care less what month I go to Hawaii, it is easy enough to trade into there with my other units.

Anyways, with a lockoff, you automatically have 2 weeks. That means that I can stay 2 weeks at my home resort for just the MF (41.71/night) but that means one week in a studio. Or, if I want to add just a tad more time, I can book the 1 bedroom side, and exchange the studio side. With the studio side, I can easily get back into my home resort in a 1 or 2 bedroom unit, or trade for larger unit elsewhere (I traded into 2 bedroom in Palm Desert). So, still at 2 weeks, but I now pay the MF and one exchange fee (well worth it to upgrade from Studio to larger unit). $51.64/night for better accomodations.

Since I did an Interval exchange, they will let me do an XYZ promotion. That is a 2 for 1 deal. That is a 3rd week for just the cost of another exchange fee. So, now I am up to 3 weeks for MF + 2 exchange fees. (average dropped back to $42/night)

If, instead of staying at home resort, I decide to trade 1 bedroom side of my lockoff, I can get a unit elsewhere for another Exchange Fee. In my case, I traded for a 2 bedroom in Newport Coast. So, still at 3 weeks + 3 exchange fees. Average cost up to $48.61/night but 2 of the 3 weeks are now in 2 bedroom units)

Once again, because I did the Interval trade, this new trade means that I can get another XYZ special. So, for another exchange fee, I get another week. So, now I have 4 weeks + 4 exchange fees. Average drops again to $42/night.

The last week came from an AC from Interval. They gave me an AC for the 1 bedroom deposit. Using that week costs a bit more than the regular exchange fee, but still reasonable. I am going to Vegas on Memorial Day weekend (and the rest of the week) for $299 or something like that. I think 7nights over a holiday weekend is well worth $42/night which is entirely consistent with my average.

So, in total, MF, 4 exchange fees, and 1 AC redemption fee for 35 nights of vacation ($42/night for whole thing). 2 of the exchange fees are cheaper ($139) because you can do it online. The XYZ's cost a bit more because you need a human being ($159) and the AC is a fixed cost based upon the size of the unit that you are trading into.

If you like this idea, there are several nice TS's that can be bought on Ebay for virtually nothing that can pull this off. The Vegas TS in this example was purchased for $99.

While I can do the same thing with my Marriott TS, since the MF is $1100, not $584, I am going to have to make more exciting trades (Hawaii, Hilton Head, Carribean) for me to get the same value. Since it has Marriott priority, I think it will accomplish it, but I will never get down to $42/night. I think it will average $57/night, but I think I will survive.

BocaBoy · Jul 21, 2010

I was attracted to TS ownership by the prospect of owing a week at a resort I really liked. The points exchange option has a lot of appeal to me, but I would NEVER want to buy points in the new Marriott system as a newbie owner.

Lawlar · Jul 21, 2010

Some Interesting Responses

I enjoyed reading your responses. I expected more negative feedback on the points system and more loyalists to exress how thankful they are that they hold a deed.

The one issue I have not seen addressed in any posts is whether Marriott is representing that a certain number of points will always be worth one-week's stay at a resort. Or is Marriott reserving the right to depreciate the points?

If you spend tens of thousands of dollars for points, pay yearly MFs, and then Marriott depeciates your points, it will be like being on a treadmill constantly paying out bucks but never getting anywhere of permanent value.

DanCali · Jul 21, 2010

Lawlar said:
I expected more negative feedback on the points system and more loyalists to exress how thankful they are that they hold a deed.

If you wanted to hear negatives too then you probably should have titled the thread differently... maybe something like "Pros and Cons of Points"...

DanTheMan · Jul 21, 2010

RedDogSD said:
Dan,

1st of all, I only buy Lockoffs. If you do not have a lockoff, then the best you will do is 2 or 3 weeks of vacation. With lockoffs, you can get 4, 5, or 6 (rarely) weeks. My first Hawaii TS was bought from a developer, and I have some strange fondness for it. Otherwise, since it is not a lockoff, I should dump it. Since I could care less what month I go to Hawaii, it is easy enough to trade into there with my other units.

Anyways, with a lockoff, you automatically have 2 weeks. That means that I can stay 2 weeks at my home resort for just the MF (41.71/night) but that means one week in a studio. Or, if I want to add just a tad more time, I can book the 1 bedroom side, and exchange the studio side. With the studio side, I can easily get back into my home resort in a 1 or 2 bedroom unit, or trade for larger unit elsewhere (I traded into 2 bedroom in Palm Desert). So, still at 2 weeks, but I now pay the MF and one exchange fee (well worth it to upgrade from Studio to larger unit). $51.64/night for better accomodations.

Since I did an Interval exchange, they will let me do an XYZ promotion. That is a 2 for 1 deal. That is a 3rd week for just the cost of another exchange fee. So, now I am up to 3 weeks for MF + 2 exchange fees. (average dropped back to $42/night)

If, instead of staying at home resort, I decide to trade 1 bedroom side of my lockoff, I can get a unit elsewhere for another Exchange Fee. In my case, I traded for a 2 bedroom in Newport Coast. So, still at 3 weeks + 3 exchange fees. Average cost up to $48.61/night but 2 of the 3 weeks are now in 2 bedroom units)

Once again, because I did the Interval trade, this new trade means that I can get another XYZ special. So, for another exchange fee, I get another week. So, now I have 4 weeks + 4 exchange fees. Average drops again to $42/night.

The last week came from an AC from Interval. They gave me an AC for the 1 bedroom deposit. Using that week costs a bit more than the regular exchange fee, but still reasonable. I am going to Vegas on Memorial Day weekend (and the rest of the week) for $299 or something like that. I think 7nights over a holiday weekend is well worth $42/night which is entirely consistent with my average.

So, in total, MF, 4 exchange fees, and 1 AC redemption fee for 35 nights of vacation ($42/night for whole thing). 2 of the exchange fees are cheaper ($139) because you can do it online. The XYZ's cost a bit more because you need a human being ($159) and the AC is a fixed cost based upon the size of the unit that you are trading into.

If you like this idea, there are several nice TS's that can be bought on Ebay for virtually nothing that can pull this off. The Vegas TS in this example was purchased for $99.

While I can do the same thing with my Marriott TS, since the MF is $1100, not $584, I am going to have to make more exciting trades (Hawaii, Hilton Head, Carribean) for me to get the same value. Since it has Marriott priority, I think it will accomplish it, but I will never get down to $42/night. I think it will average $57/night, but I think I will survive.

Wow! That's awesome RedDog.

I do have a lockoff but it's a points week at Vacation Village at Parkway. I'm not sure if i could do that with this TS becuase it's RCI. Would i have to have a II, TS to execute an exchange like yours?

Also, (sorry, newbie here but learning fast thanks to Tuggers) what is AC?

Sorry folks if i got off the subject here. I'm just fasinated by RedDogs mastery of the system

Dan

m61376 · Jul 22, 2010

Dan-
An AC is an accommodation certificate- sometimes offered by II for a deposit of at least a 1BR unit that they need inventory of. It is good for generally off season trades and cannot be used to trade back into the resort for which it was offered. However, during Flexchange, except for the linked resort, it can be use for practically anything. The exchange cost is something like 199 for a studio, 249 for a 1BR and 299 for a 2BR, but may be a little different now.

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