Deja vu all over again on the Marriot Board

DavidnRobin said:

No horse... and it nice to have the option, but the cost to all for that this option has some potential downside - especially 1) the more competetion for Home Resort priviledge, and 2) the Bid/Ask diferrences for exchanging.

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Fredm said:

Absolutely. Each can determine if it suits their purpose. If not, no harm no foul.

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LisaRex said:

Allowing points buyers to reserve at my home resort a month ahead of me is hardly "no harm, no foul."

Skimming doesn't bother me nearly as much as the booking preference. For people who bought in places like Maui, which is designated as all platinum, it could add to the problem of reserving a week during the summer.

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Fredm said:

Point buyers can't do that, unless an owner converts the week for a points exchange. It's the very same thing as a multi-week owner reserving 13 months in advance, then renting to someone else.

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SDKath said:

They also can raise the points required for stays at any time, right? That makes point devaluation a HUGE potential problem in my eye. Put it this way -- any point system that doesn't have a prohibition against raising points (like Disney) has ALWAYS continued to raise the points needed. Always. So why would Marriott be different?

Katherine

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LisaRex said:

That's true, but is there any verbiage preventing Marriott from cherry picking the best weeks? Consider this: Let's say 250 Marriott Maui Ocean Club owners convert to points in 2011. Since all MOC owners are platinum float owners, what's to prevent Marriott from cherry picking the best weeks (e.g. 200 summer week and 50 winter weeks) to throw into their points program? By the time the multi-week owners are done picking off the inventory at 13 weeks, it may be extremely difficult for single week owners to reserve a summer week.

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Yes, there is verbiage that prevents Marriott from cherry picking. They will be able to take weeks in direct proportion to the number of owners who convert, week by week. Not in advance of each. If 20% convert, then 20% of the individual weeks can be reserved. No consolidated cherry picking.
In fact, Marriott has stated that its computer programs are wired to prevent reservation clerks from manually manipulating the reservation pools

In other words, a points owner can conceivably trump a non-points owner at their own resort! Or am I missing something?

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Beyond the above, there are stare laws which prevent this from happening. For example, California law anticipates such "multi-site" timeshare plan conversions. Home resort owners have a minimum 60 day reservation preference, week by week, over multi-site reservations. That is why all point reservations are "subject to availability".

Ditto for "hot" weeks (e.g. July 4th) within any given season. Is there anything to prevent Marriott from cherry picking the prime weeks anytime an owner in that season converts to points?

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Ditto, my response above.

If the concerns you raise were in fact happening, I would be among the first to rally against it.

Marriott built its reputation by allowing the system to speak for itself.
That is what it will do with the new points exchange.
The Marriott board is parsing every word in the the new program, and is shadow boxing.
If Marriott owners did the same thing with the legacy system Governing Documents no one would have bought it.

Legacy owners can wait and see how the new exchange actually works out. Current incentives are good until 12/31. Who knows what will be offered after that date? So, no rush for those that are considering it.
In fact, most owners have not even been officially notified of the new offering yet. Marriott has plenty of time to sell owners on a new mouse trap.

As I have said a number of times on the Marriott board, the new exchange is of no interest to me personally. The $1495 enrollment fee for a resale owner ($1995 for unlimited resale weeks) is not an expense I am willing to pay.
A direct owner would pay $695 for unlimited week conversions.

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l2trade said:

IMHO, I will stick with old school timeshares. I prefer fixed over float and float over points and deeds over BI and owner rights over BS... I prefer the separation of management company and exchange company. I wish for separation of management company and developer. I guess I will settle for an independent HOA board.

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Fredm said:

They will be able to take weeks in direct proportion to the number of owners who convert, week by week. Not in advance of each.

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LisaRex said:

Sorry if this is turning into a Marriott primer, but I don't understand how this would work with an all platinum float ownership. Can you please use some concrete examples?

Let's say 25 owners decide on November 15, 2010 to convert their 2011 weeks to points. Are you saying that Marriott then has 25 November 15, 2011 weeks to put into their points program? If not, then how do they pick what weeks to put into the points program and what is to prevent them from picking, say, 20 summer 2011 weeks, given that they are all platinum weeks? I do understand that there's a 1:1 ratio but aren't all points weeks going to have to put into the system "in advance"? How else could a point's owner plan a vacation?

I'm soooo confused.
If there's a simple primer on the Marriott board, I'd be happy to check it out. However, I've been kind of avoiding it because I have enough problems with Starwood.

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Fredm said:

Yes, there is verbiage that prevents Marriott from cherry picking. They will be able to take weeks in direct proportion to the number of owners who convert, week by week. Not in advance of each. If 20% convert, then 20% of the individual weeks can be reserved. No consolidated cherry picking.
In fact, Marriott has stated that its computer programs are wired to prevent reservation clerks from manually manipulating the reservation pools

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LisaRex said:

Sorry if this is turning into a Marriott primer, but I don't understand how this would work with an all platinum float ownership. Can you please use some concrete examples?

Let's say 25 owners decide on November 15, 2010 to convert their 2011 weeks to points. Are you saying that Marriott then has 25 November 15, 2011 weeks to put into their points program? If not, then how do they pick what weeks to put into the points program and what is to prevent them from picking, say, 20 summer 2011 weeks, given that they are all platinum weeks? I do understand that there's a 1:1 ratio but aren't all points weeks going to have to put into the system "in advance"? How else could a point's owner plan a vacation?

I'm soooo confused.

If there's a simple primer on the Marriott board, I'd be happy to check it out. However, I've been kind of avoiding it because I have enough problems with Starwood.

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nanette0269 said:

Great information! I've wanted to buy an EY/EOY Marriott property for awhile, and would in fact prefer to do a permanent exchange with my EOY SW property. I was a bit overhwhelmed with the Marriott boards these days, as much of the stuff they post I cannot access (or I am simply lost).

That being said, if one were to buy into Marriott...would now be a good time? Seems like the market has opened up as a result of this. Even if the June deed deadline has passed.

Thoughts?

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DanCali said:

Fred - there is nothing in writing in regards to this. "Verbiage" is literally words spoken by Marriott people to a couple of Tuggers who expressed concern over this matter.

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LisaRex said:

Thanks for everyone's input. It's been helpful. We're constantly batting around the idea of selling Hawaii and buying somewhere closer (e.g. a Marriott) but the money we'd lose is daunting. And with all the changes at Marriott, I was waiting to see how things shook out.

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nanette0269 said:

One other question for everyone here.... So if a resale marriott unit is purchased now, how do the new rules affect them? It almost seems that the new point system is similar to Hyatt, where you can book right online and see availability, which I really like. But, its unclear to me how the 6/2010 deed transfer deadline affects those deeds transferring now.

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Fredm said:

Per my prior post:
.. there are stare laws which prevent this from happening. For example, California law anticipates such "multi-site" timeshare plan conversions. Home resort owners have a minimum 60 day reservation preference, week by week, over multi-site reservations. That is why all point reservations are "subject to availability".

Similar language exists in most states, including Hawaii and Florida. That's why Starwood has a four month exclusive owner reservation preference period. To accommodate these very laws. Of course, it's a completely different implementation. The underlying restrictions are the driver, nonetheless. Starwood morphs into a muli site points program for internal exchanges.

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m61376 said:

Fred- What I don't understand is how this applies, since there is no home resort preference in the new Marriott program.

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Legacy week owners retain their home resort preference.
That is the point I was making. D-Club requests cannot supercede that.

ADDED: this does not hold true for MRP conversions. We can only hope that Marriott remains sensitive to the matter. However, they have committed to use MRP inventory to bolster the exchange pool at their discretion.

btw- I was actually the one who first started bringing this booking discussion up the Marriott food chain, so to speak. I was in contact with someone in authority, who recognized that this was a very important issue to many and verified that a proportionate amount of each week in the season would be allocated to point and week users (including enrolled week owners using their owned week), and not just a proportional percentage of the overall season.

As pointed out by Dan, this was a verbal reassurance and while I was asked to hold off posting it as an official policy until it was, in fact, verified completely, we are being asked to take Marriott's word and their reputation for customer service to allay our concerns.

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Glad you got that discussion rolling.
As I have indicated, Marriott legally has no choice in the matter.

I have no doubt this is their current intentions. I hope that if their program stumbles because they can't get the Platinum inventory they expected or need to fuel the system that they will remain good to their word, and won't "borrow" here and there as needed. They are cognizant that 50% of their sales come from current owners, so they maintain they will do nothing to sabotage current ownership and their reputation.

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Marriott's long track record gives me reason to believe that they will do the right thing.
Marriott will do whatever it takes to make the program function well. Even if they have to buy the inventory via ROFR.
Of course, they would rather convert legacy owners in large numbers. I believe that they will. However, it will take time.
They are now 6 weeks into a multi-year transition plan.

Time will tell....

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Of that we can be sure.

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jerseygirl said:

I think the statutes have been muddied with regard to reservation rights, at least in Florida. And, with timeshare rules ... as Florida goes, so goes the nation:

(12)(a) In addition to any other rights granted by the rules and regulations of the timeshare plan, the managing entity of a timeshare plan is authorized to manage the reservation and use of accommodations using those processes, analyses, procedures, and methods that are in the best interests of the owners as a whole to efficiently manage the timeshare plan and encourage the maximum use and enjoyment of the accommodations and other benefits made available through the timeshare plan. The managing entity shall have the right to forecast anticipated reservation and use of the accommodations, including the right to take into account current and previous reservation and use of the accommodations, information about events that are scheduled to occur, seasonal use patterns, and other pertinent factors that affect the reservation or use of the accommodations. In furtherance of the provisions of this subsection, the managing entity is authorized to reserve accommodations, in the best interests of the owners as a whole, for the purposes of depositing such reserved use with an affiliated exchange program or renting such reserved accommodations in order to facilitate the use or future use of the accommodations or other benefits made available through the timeshare plan.

I originally thought Starwood paid for this change to the statutes to accommodate the new II rules, but now I think that Marriott and Starwood probably split the costs!

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