Ok, I would love to hear who agrees or not

Kagehitokiri2 · May 3, 2011

Mel said:
Unfortunately for Fletch, it is his right to remain in the property - and further, even if he moves out, he also has the right to "sell" his life tenancy, and allow someone else the right to use the property until his death, or to lease it until then, with all proceeds going to him. Fletch and siblings have no current right to the property, only a future interest.

kind of "bad news" but "good news" its not transferable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_estate

Tia · May 3, 2011

So if step-dad seeks legal advise this is a possibility.

Mel said:
...

Unfortunately for Fletch, it is his right to remain in the property - and further, even if he moves out, he also has the right to "sell" his life tenancy, and allow someone else the right to use the property until his death, or to lease it until then, with all proceeds going to him. Fletch and siblings have no current right to the property, only a future interest....

vacationhopeful · May 3, 2011

Fletch:

Your emotions seem to me to be very raw. Whatever the reasons behind the terms of your mother's will, her final expenses, her medical costs for the last month's of her life, your grief at the passing of your last parent, and the current financial needs of yourself and siblings can not be altered.

There are age old "catch phrases" used to describe in literature the human condition - I will skip adding new ones to this thread. Your grief is very real to you; I am sorry for your lost.

Please understand, if there is an afterlife, is your goal to tell your mom that "she screw up and left you all in ruin"? Would this allow her to gain eternal rest? Could she reach down and change anything?

If there is no afterlife, who is living in this pain? Is this a pain that begins to consume you to where you can not enjoy life or your family? Is this how your mother raised you? Would she had planned this life for you?

I don't know you and most likely will never meet you. I battled my demons in my life. My last recommendation is:

You should read and reflect on the words in the "Serenity Prayer".

I shall wish you happiness and good health for you and your family.

jlf58 · May 3, 2011

My emotions are fine and I just asked for opinions and thought your comments were assine, thats pretty much it. I wish it was more complicated but it isn't. Just because you have demons doesn't mean everyone does.BTW Good luck with that !!

vacationhopeful said:
Fletch:

Your emotions seem to me to be very raw. Whatever the reasons behind the terms of your mother's will, her final expenses, her medical costs for the last month's of her life, your grief at the passing of your last parent, and the current financial needs of yourself and siblings can not be altered.

There are age old "catch phrases" used to describe in literature the human condition - I will skip adding new ones to this thread. Your grief is very real to you; I am sorry for your lost.

Please understand, if there is an afterlife, is your goal to tell your mom that "she screw up and left you all in ruin"? Would this allow her to gain eternal rest? Could she reach down and change anything?

If there is no afterlife, who is living in this pain? Is this a pain that begins to consume you to where you can not enjoy life or your family? Is this how your mother raised you? Would she had planned this life for you?

I don't know you and most likely will never meet you. I battled my demons in my life. My last recommendation is:

You should read and reflect on the words in the "Serenity Prayer".

I shall wish you happiness and good health for you and your family.

ace2000 · May 3, 2011

Fletch, I think you should request that the moderators lock this thread. It's starting to get very personal and I'm not sure there's anything else to be gained. For me, I've appreciated the posts from the TUG members with the legal knowlege.

I was also involved in a similar situation with an inheritance from my grandmother. For me, it was a very profitable car wash business that I was left holding a share of only when an uncle passed away. It was not fun sorting that one out. It was also very frustrating having to wait.

I appreciate you sharing your story, it's been an interesting read.

jlf58 · May 3, 2011

I have actually asked to lock it but Dave is out having a good time

so if another rep is out there, please lock !! thanks for the opinions

ace2000 said:
Fletch, I think you should request that the moderators lock this thread. It's starting to get very personal and I'm not sure there's anything else to be gained. For me, I've appreciated the posts from the TUG members with the legal knowlege.

I was also involved in a similar situation with an inheritance from my grandmother. For me, it was a very profitable car wash business that I was left holding a share of only when an uncle passed away. It was not fun sorting that one out. It was also very frustrating having to wait.

I appreciate you sharing your story, it's been an interesting read.

vacationhopeful · May 3, 2011

Fletch said:
My emotions are fine and I just asked for opinions and thought your comments were assine, thats pretty much it. I wish it was more complicated but it isn't. Just because you have demons doesn't mean everyone does.BTW Good luck with that !!

Personal attacks??? From you! I wish your step-father a long life. :hysterical:

jlf58 · May 3, 2011

And I wish you good luck with those demons and addictions ...

vacationhopeful said:
Personal attacks??? From you! I wish your step-father a long life. :hysterical:

PigsDad · May 3, 2011

Fletch -- you posted here hoping others would confirm your feelings and agree with you. That hasn't happened, but there is no reason to digress to personal attacks. Nothing good can come of that.

jlf58 · May 3, 2011

Understood, I appreciate the opinions but when people speculate about personal relationships, what was said and not said and other stupid things, thats where I draw the line. Thats why I asked to close they thread !!
BTW, calling a comment assine is not a personal attack.

PigsDad said:
Fletch -- you posted here hoping others would confirm your feelings and agree with you. That hasn't happened, but there is no reason to digress to personal attacks. Nothing good can come of that.

Kagehitokiri2 · May 3, 2011

removed....

glypnirsgirl · May 3, 2011

Fletch said:
My emotions are fine and I just asked for opinions and thought your comments were assine, thats pretty much it. I wish it was more complicated but it isn't. Just because you have demons doesn't mean everyone does.BTW Good luck with that !!

WOW! What a response to someone who was expressing concern.

elaine

Egret1986 · May 3, 2011

Think what the "old guy" must be going through based on that response and others

glypnirsgirl said:
WOW! What a response to someone who was expressing concern.

elaine

WOW! is right.

geekette · May 3, 2011

Actually doesn't matter what any of us think, you're stuck with him.

Whichever of you is most diplomatic might broach the subject with him GENTLY. If it becomes cantankerous you lose.

GOOD LUCK!!!

hvacrsteve · May 3, 2011

Fletch said:
My Mom passed away 18 months ago. She was remarried for 10 years as my Dad passed away 20 year ago. The house she lived in was paid in cash by her. Her husband paid most of the bills as that was thier arangement. Basically they kept thier money separate except for this house agreement. The will states 90% of the house is mine and my 2 sisters. 10% goes to him and he gets to live there and we cannot force him out. My Mom has a friend that was kicked out by the kids and she didn't want that to happen to him. Here is where is gets complicated. My Mom was not a stupid lady but certainly was not a math major or a what if kind of person as dad used to handle the finances. The 3 kids had no problem with him staing there but after almost 2 years we feel it's time for him to move. Before you say " your Mom wanted him to stay", hear me out. We know for a fact that she would have thought he would work with us if and when we needed the money. One of my sisters really needs cash and all 3 can use it or this would not be an issue. He would be the first to admit we came before he did as she made that perfectly clear. He is not rich but not poor and can afford to move out plus his kids are all down South and being almost 80, it makes sense to move down there now rather than when he gets sick or dies. We don't want to have the house dumped on our lap one day and have to pay bills so we want him to work with us. I know i could never live in a house knowing my dead wife's kids need the money. If this isn't annoyiong enough, the kids paid for everything when she died, funeral, wake, luncheon etc. How do you let someone else pay for your wife's death ? I have never like him much and like him much less now, to many bad decesions as far as I am concerned. The bottom line is my Mom never thought she would out live him and not alot of thought was given to this will. That plus we know she would expect him to work with us on this issue.
So my question is this, could you live in a house under these conditions ?
Would you not feel an obligation to help your spouses kids consdering the house is 90% there or would you say, screw them, I need to worry about me ? We all 3 think he should work with us, my uncle says no but my aunt says yes. I want to keep this light hearted but would anyone out there say, screw them, I am staying as long as a want ?

He has every right to live there until he dies! It is not his problem that any of you have money issues. If you want him out make him some kind of offer he can't refuse, otherwise just leave him alone.
Sounds like he is paying all the bills, he could ask you for your share of everything and still live there! He could also start charging you for what you didn't pay as your part and sue you for it and probably take the entire home if he really wanted to!

Be careful what you ask for, you just may get it!

BBB · May 3, 2011

What do you mean by work with us? Do you want to buy him out, or do you want him to move out and pay rent somewhere, and give you his 10 percent? What is work with us? Can your sister take out a home equity loan out of the home for share, and then just walk away? If you guys don't want him to live there, you either have to offer to have the home appraised, and give him 10 percent of the value, or everyone agree to sell it and split the proceeds. You can't kick out an 80 year old out of his marital home. If he paid bills while they were married, he is entitled to be treated like an equal partner.
I know this is hard. My dad died 2 weeks ago. Me and my 3 sisters paid for the entire funeral, and when we finally found the will, he left the house to his cousin in Greece! My mom died and left us her share 22 years ago, but the law gave it to my Dad, and he took our share anyway, and now gave it away. Such is life.
He won't live forever. Just wait it out, and when he dies, sell it.

Pit · May 4, 2011

BBB said:
Can your sister take out a home equity loan out of the home for share, and then just walk away?

Hmmm... that's an interesting idea. If she takes a HEL and skips the payments, can the creditor force the home to be sold? :shrug:

Did the will stipulate that he gets to live there rent-free? It's not unreasonable to expect rent, since you and your siblings hold 90% of the equity.

chriskre · May 5, 2011

My brother went thru a similar scenario.
He ended up buying a condo and moving him there and letting him live there for free. It was much cheaper than the house they moved him out of and much easier for him to manage as well. Eventually he ended up in a nursing home but at least he had 10 more years of independence before the nursing home and my brother was able to rent out the house and get enough money to subsidize the old guy til medicare kicked in in the nursing home. Once he went into the nursing home they sold the house.

Maybe you could propose something similar.

Texasbelle · May 5, 2011

This is fairly common and how you feel depends on which side of the fence you are on. A friend who owned part of a house with the right to stay in it, bought out his kids, but they liked each other! She now owns the house that she and her next husband live in. I don't think he can stay in it, but again it is common. Our parents didn't have money, so we didn't worry. My folks house sold cheap so the proceeds could pay for Mom's nursing home [also a common thing]. My sisters and brothers-in-law did a lot to keep my parents house liveable and got nothing, because my parents didn't sell or deed it to them earlier. Such is life.

Jaybee · May 5, 2011

Tuggers are so smart and logical. A will is to legalize a person's WILL, and that's why it's called a "will". It was your mother's will, whether or not she changed her mind at some point. She didn't change her will.
We have a trust, and a stipulation, which I think is usual, that if anyone contests the bequests, that person will receive zilch.

I can only hope that your mother's will stipulates that, upon your stepfather's death, the 10% reverts to the beneficiaries. Otherwise, this could go on forever!

Please don't let this situation make you bitter inside. Those feelings can rot you from the inside out. I wish you, and your siblings peace.

Talent312 · May 5, 2011

Would I stay there knowing that the kids wanted/needed me out?

It depends. If I was physically and financially able to move,
I would, not for them, but for myself, to move on with my life.

But I'm not him. What I or anyone else says, matters not.
Perhaps you can encourage him with some incentives or buy him out.

pkyorkbeach · May 6, 2011

Your mother thought this all out BEFORE she made her WILL...I am sure she thought what if my children need the money. The home was NOT left to you because of the money. Her first concern was that he have a home to live in. That is what she wanted. You need to look at it that you own part of a home but you can not do anything with it until he passes or wants to leave.

Be fair to him it sounds like he was fair to your mom or she would not have done her Will the way she did.

LUVourMarriotts · May 6, 2011

Wow, this is something that could very well come up for my brother and I. My father passed away when I was 7. My mother remarried when I was 12. Our house was nicer, so my step-father moved in and they kept his house and rented it out for a few years. Then sold it. The deal has always been that my mother pays off the house and he handles his house. Well after he sold, he opened a car dealership and unfortunately, that flopped after a few years.

Anyway, if my mother were to pass before my step-father, my brother and I would absolutely, no chance, ask our step-father to move out. The house will go to my brother and I, not to his 2 daughters at all. We know this is the way it is willed out. We get along great with our step-father, which could factor into my feeling, but I also feel it is a little disrespectful to kick him out. He has been a major part of maintaining that house, and it is his home.

This may be worded wrong, which I don't mean to, there's just not an easy way to say it, but what if your mother did not pass away? The financial issues you discuss would fall on your own and your sisters shoulders to bear. Why not just handle it appropriately without possibly decreasing the joy in life that your step-father has left?

Beaglemom3 · May 6, 2011

Fletch,
Some suggestions:

1. Contact an elder law/real estate attorney who may be able to find (from experience) a win-win solution for all of you. There may a scenario that we Tuggers haven't thought of. I do Bio-Pharma law and hardly know my own state's laws with regard to family/elder/real estate law.

2. Ask him if will agree to the sale of the house, that you'd give him the 10% (sweeten to 15+% ?)
of the sale plus you'd help him relocate to the south. The 10% might be his ticket into Assisted Living or as suggested before, a nice condo. Has he been paying the house taxes at your Mum's house ?

I understand some of what you've been going through and hope you find an answer. You bring out an important point for all of those who have wills - keep things simple, clear and with a time limit.

ETA: Sorry if this was already answered but is the house paid in full ? If so, whose name/names are on the deed ? Was there a document of any kind that conveyed this into his or both names?

Best,
B

nazclk · May 6, 2011

Fairness has nothing to do with this situation

In one simple word it's greed. Your mother was married to him for 10 years, and she decided what she would do with the house, and that is basically a place for him to stay. I would assume you have no expenses with the house do you?? Look at it this way, what if she would have left it all to him. What situation would you be in then. You would have to go and find your money elsewhere wouldn't you. I would suggest that you refinance the house, buy him out at 20% and be done with it. But unless he is a crazy man I think you are stuck.

Ok, I would love to hear who agrees or not

Kagehitokiri2

Tia

vacationhopeful

TUG Review Crew: Rookie

jlf58

ace2000

jlf58

vacationhopeful

TUG Review Crew: Rookie

jlf58

PigsDad

jlf58

Kagehitokiri2

glypnirsgirl

Tug Review Crew: Rookie

Egret1986

TUG Review Crew: Expert

geekette

hvacrsteve

BBB

Pit

chriskre

Texasbelle

Jaybee

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

pkyorkbeach

LUVourMarriotts

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

Beaglemom3

nazclk