USA Today article mentions TUG

PerryM said:

Good grief, those that dislike my opinions use the same exact logic - they see falling resale prices and declare my purchases a loser.

Guys, you can't have it both ways.

I contend that using my skills at timeshare ownership have enriched my family's life and put cash in our pockets - the very definition of why folks come to chat rooms to learn.

I have no intention of flipping timeshares, like many here have recommended, I buy a timeshare to use it, either ourselves or as rental income - I'm very good at doing this.

But I've stepped on many toes in the process and expect to hear yeps.. Folks be very careful of folks who recommend flipping timeshares or buying them now - especially if they make a livelihood selling the very timeshares they are shouting about.

Don't buy a timeshare in 2010 - either from the developer or resale; unless you have a strong stomach and know what the heck you are doing.

P.S.

Price, of a product or service, tells you a lot. With eBay timeshares going for $1 this is NOT a seller's market and you should not sell if you can hang on. But price tells us that's exactly what is going on - folks are dumping timeshares like crazy and there are folks buying them who believe they made a wise decision. Until the transaction completes that verdict is in the air.

The MAJOR new ingredient to this mixture is risk of bankruptcy by the resorts. We have not had to contend with this before but now becomes a risk factor that is basically unlimited. As more and more owners "walk away" from their MFs the resort must add that lost revenue to the bill of those that pay. This can go on only so long before bankruptcy is forced on the resort.

Then the words "Become an owner in this resort" will ring in your ears and drain your bank account. This is why I don't recommend anyone buy a timeshare under any circumstances in 2010 - this risk factor is new and is frightening.

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I certainly don't want to make this thread all about Perry. Your advise to avoid purchasing timeshares now due to the risks involved my prove correct.

However, your agrument that now is not a superior time to purchase compared to when you made your decision to purchase is non-sense.

If I where to purchase now the exact timeshare you purchased and my costs today are significantly less than yours (even factoring in any VALUE) obtained in the years you owned, purchasing now is better than then.

You - Then $15000 acquisition, two years use producing $2600 VALUE, net net $12400.
Me - Now $5000 acquisition. net net $5000.

We now both own the same risk and we both could lose everything invested. Yet your loss is $7400 greater. True that both could prove to be bad decisions, yet in the above example someone purchasing today puts less capital at risk and if there ever is a reward they will realize a greater reward.

Let me know...

@AwayWeGo - don't put your ethics on my shoulders...

@timeous2 - I know I hurt you the most - I am profoundly sorry (really)...

Well if there is no more debate left on this topic I'm off to another website - PM if you want to debate anything but me on this topic. I really don't want to hijack the OP's thread.

Until then, my Google Analytics account thanks everyone here and so do I. (If you don't know what that means that's ok, it won't hurt you)

Now nothing about Perry.

There has always been risk and reward in owning timeshares, that will never change. There has never been a set price that timeshares transact at. Multiple weeks of the same type at the same resort could transact over a short period at a wide range of prices ($-300, $1, $500, $5000 or $12,000). Anyone involved in these transactions could be in the either the buyer or seller roles.

There are people who make money transacting timeshares and those that lose money transacting timeshares. I own many timeshares (many more than I could possibly use in a year) and to date have only liquidated one (at a not so insignificant profit).

I have acquired a timeshare in the past year. I am acquiring another timeshare right now. I would not rule out future acquisitions. I am actively persuing the liquidatiion of some of the timeshares that I hold and will liquidate them as the correct opportunity to do so occurs.

I believe that I am acting in a sane and informed manner given the present risks.

Fret Not.

PerryM said:

I really don't want to hijack the OP's thread.

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Shux, hijacking discussion topics is 1 of the many endearing salient features of TUG-BBS.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

pgnewarkboy said:

I like your style of "in your face" argument without being nasty on a personal level.

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I agree. I'm a Perry fan. I don't really care whether he's right or wrong most of the time, but I like his "style". It would be a shame if he got shoved out of TUG.

What a very nice article about this web site in the newspaper and a very enjoyable reading thread.

Knowledge is power and freedom of speech is worth a million dollars.

I know I am off the subject again.

PerryM said:

The MAJOR new ingredient to this mixture is risk of bankruptcy by the resorts. We have not had to contend with this before but now becomes a risk factor that is basically unlimited. As more and more owners "walk away" from their MFs the resort must add that lost revenue to the bill of those that pay. This can go on only so long before bankruptcy is forced on the resort.

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This is a salient point worthy of consideration.

Ken555 said:

This is a salient point worthy of consideration.

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The issue of spiraling defaults, due to "walk away" owners non longer willing or able to pay ever rising maintenance fees, potentially leading to the bankrupcy of the resort has been discussed in other threads on TUG.

The possibility has been raised that a planned reorganization under bankruptcy law may in fact be the mechanism to effect the changes necessary in the governing documents of the resort that would allow it to emerge as a viable entity. The types of changes that could not be made otherwise.

Another possible resolution would be the liquidation of the resort via bankruptcy.

Since either would seem a likely remedy where it is most needed in correcting the true cost of timeshare ownership (ongoing fee obligation), I do not view this in a negative light. It may just be what the doctor ordered for some resorts.

JMAESD84 said:

The issue of spiraling defaults, due to "walk away" owners non longer willing or able to pay ever rising maintenance fees, potentially leading to the bankrupcy of the resort has been discussed in other threads on TUG.

The possibility has been raised that a planned reorganization under bankruptcy law may in fact be the mechanism to effect the changes necessary in the governing documents of the resort that would allow it to emerge as a viable entity. The types of changes that could not be made otherwise.

Another possible resolution would be the liquidation of the resort via bankruptcy.

Since either would seem a likely remedy where it is most needed in correcting the true cost of timeshare ownership (ongoing fee obligation), I do not view this in a negative light. It may just be what the doctor ordered for some resorts.

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I agree. Bankruptcy, for some resorts, may be the best option. But what happens before the bankruptcy concerns me. TS will respond to the decreasing owner base by squeezing remaining owners even more. And those owners who faithfully pay their MFs may find themselves, after the TS's bankruptcy, with worthless deeds. Caveat emptor doesn't describe the enormity of owners stuck in lousy resorts.

timeos2 said:

Wow. Using this method I can see that there would never be a negative value to a timeshare purchase. Although I used my week, at a cost of say $800 annual fee, I avoided renting a similar prime week at the resort which someone advertised at say $1800 - no idea if they can actually get that or not (most likely not), therefore I "made" $1000! I hope it gets reported as income!

See what I mean about thinking that Perry really cannot believe most of what he posts. Or he is really good at fooling himself. Does anyone feel this method of return makes sense? It is reminiscent of the "savings" on a shopping trip from buying discounted items that exceed the quantity you can use before it spoils. Very much a false "savings".

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I do think Perry has a point here. I keep an ROI (return on investment) document that records all costs and values associated with my TSs, and I do see it the same way honestly. So when I fly my family 1st class to Maui from the points I received from my Marriott purchases, I enter a value that represents what I would have spent to do that otherwise. I am very conservative however, because want my figures to be accurate. For the 1st class to Maui I use $8500, because the cheapest I've ever see for 1st class to Maui during prime season.

For rentals I use the estimated prevailing redweek rentals which I know because when I'm not using them, I'm renting them, and have done so successfully for 8 years, so I know the market real well.

As for buying a TS now, I really can't speak outside of Marriott, but I can tell you from what I know about certain MARRIOTT TSs. That is , if I had more capital, I'd be snatching up every well-priced resale at Newport Coast plat, Aruba Surf plat, Mrytle Beach Plat+, Grand Ocean plat or gold.

I say this because I know these markets very well, and even in this downturn, these things rent without fail.

I had one of my best years renting my units, and I discovered something very interesting. Because of the downturn market I didn't rent my units as soon as usual at the 7 months mark. Instead I rented them closer to 90 days from check in. Usually my rental ads are off the listings well before the 90 day mark so I had no idea the volume of last minute travelers to these popular destinations.

I discovered that if I had more weeks I would have definately rented more. After I rented my Aruba Surf Feb week to gauge traffiic I left the ad up. I counted at least 5 other committed renters for that week.

Same with my Maui units. We're going in 2 weeks, but not using my own weeks. I had sme job concerns to I found two renters for my weeks, and made hotel reservations in case we could go. As it turns out I found my exact week in a dstress rental and really made out.

Same with my Mrytle Beach July 4th week. If I had 10 of those weeks, I'd rent everyone of them for at least 3x MF.