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Should I be cautious of this eBay purchase

catharsis

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So I just won the following auction

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-timeshare-deal-/131930987588?hash=item1eb7b31c44:g:4dEAAOSw-kdXzvxW
which includes the following language
Payment:
PAYMENT MUST BE MADE WITHIN 36 HOURS OF PURCHASE TO START THE CLOSING PROCESS
If we have not received the winner’s information within 36 hours of auction, a nonpaying bidder dispute will be filed with eBay. Bidder has 7 days to submit information from the time the dispute is opened.
Winning Bid must be made via Pay Pal.

I am slightly concerned because.

1. the seller appears to now be selling the same week again ! :shrug:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-timeshare-deal-/131934814480?hash=item1eb7ed8110:g:4dEAAOSw-kdXzvxW

2. I though the winning bid should be paid to the escrow company not the vendor?

3. I though PayPal did not allow payments for timeshares/real estate, so his requirement that PayPal is used seems a little fishy.

Should I send the winning bid via paypal (it's only $50) ?

alternately - If this is a fraud - should I do anything to report it?
 

DeniseM

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These are questions that should be asked before you bid.

However, Paypal timeshare auctions are not binding - so before you proceed - ask your questions.

PLUS: Ask for an estoppel from the resort.

If you are not happy with the answer you get (or get no answers - likely) then simple decline to proceed with the purchase.
 
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Roger830

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It might be best to pass.

The seller has 0 for feedback.

Marriott has right of first refusal, $49.99 seems too low.
 

catharsis

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received a contact from "Trademark Property Solutions,"

So...

I received the following contact - and an e-stoppel (although the estoppel came from the ebay seller as opposed to the closing company).

Hello,

I will be processing the ownership transfer of the timeshare at Marriott’s Grand Vista. Therefore, in order to initiate the transfer, please complete the attached Buyer’s Application, once completed, please email or fax a copy to my attention. Upon receiving, I will create and email a purchase agreement as per the stipulations in the ebay listing.

I've never seen an estoppel before, but I also received an estoppel from the vendor and it looks ok - so the timeshare apparently at least exists....
 

GreenTea

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0 Feedback? With multiple timeshare auctions at once? No way.
 

Roger830

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The estoppel usually comes from the ebay seller if requested. It's not likely that the closing company will request another estoppel.

Other than the zero feedback, the big problem that I see with this deal is the "first right of refusal" that is my understanding Marriott uses to buy the timeshare if the price is low. There is no doubt that $1127 is low by their standards.

With the auction bid, closing cost, transfer fee, maintenance fee, you will have $1127 tied up for a month or more with a seller that has no record of completing a deal. Perhaps you konw that the closing company is reliable, but it doesn't appear that you do.
 

catharsis

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Frankly the risk of losing $50 or not having access to $1172 for 4-6 weeks only to have it refunded when marriott exercise rofr are both acceptable for me... but the prospect of simply having the closing company take my money and disappear would not be an acceptable risk. Is that likely/possible or at the end of the day will the credit cats company protect me against that risk?

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
 

csxjohn

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I have never paid the closing company when I've won TS auctions on eBay, always have paid the eBay seller so I don't see this as unusual.

I've never seen this seller or auctions set up to look like this so to me this is a new guy in town. I would have never bid on this auction because of that.

Once you send in your payment to the seller and something goes haywire, paypal may not back you up because their rules specifically do not allow for timeshare transactions.
 

catharsis

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I have never paid the closing company when I've won TS auctions on eBay, always have paid the eBay seller so I don't see this as unusual.

I've never seen this seller or auctions set up to look like this so to me this is a new guy in town. I would have never bid on this auction because of that.

Once you send in your payment to the seller and something goes haywire, paypal may not back you up because their rules specifically do not allow for timeshare transactions.

again I believe I'm only supposed to pay the seller $49 - which I could really care less about losing,
 

Robert D

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Looks to me you have to pay $49 plus closing costs and maintenance fees totaling over $1,000, not just $49.
 

catharsis

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Looks to me you have to pay $49 plus closing costs and maintenance fees totaling over $1,000, not just $49.

This is why I was asking about the comparative risk of sending money to a closing company versus direct to the vendor.

I believe I'm sending $49 to the seller and the rest to a closing company who are supposedly putting this money in escrow and hence this is less at risk. I may not have use of the latter for a while but it's unlikely to disappear entirely.

Or am I being completely naive and there are less than reputable closing companies out there who will misappropriate client funds?
 

andysnovel

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Trademark Property Solutions provides a complete range of Construction, Preservation Management & Real Estate Services. We specialize in Residential and Commercial services. We are your One Stop Shop! All work is performed by trained and uniformed professionals in a timely manner.



We will provide detailed quotes accompanied by photos that will explain your options in returning the property to maximum profit potential. We provide comprehensive Property Management and Real Estate, including Turn key services including: complete rehabilitations, safety hazard, code compliance repairs, inspections, re-keys, trash-outs, sales cleanings, winterization, lawn maintenance, snow removal, and other property maintenance needs and punch list repairs.



Most services are provided in-house by our experienced staff members specializing and licensed in different trades. With a strong foundation in Construction and Real Estate, our management team understands what it takes to bring a property into marketable condition.



The closing company is described below on their website.......it seems legit....I would never buy anything from ebay sellers of 0 feedback, too risky.........

We identify with our client's objectives of purchasing, selling or renting, rehabbing their properties as quickly and economically as possible and we can assist in doing so by offering competitive rates and providing the highest quality Maintenance and Management services to our clients.
 
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DeniseM

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This is why I was asking about the comparative risk of sending money to a closing company versus direct to the vendor.

I believe I'm sending $49 to the seller and the rest to a closing company who are supposedly putting this money in escrow and hence this is less at risk. I may not have use of the latter for a while but it's unlikely to disappear entirely.

Or am I being completely naive and there are less than reputable closing companies out there who will misappropriate client funds?

Most eBay sellers do not use an independent closing company - they close in-house, or use an affiliated company that they control.
 

catharsis

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So following discussions with the closing company I am to pay the winning bid of $49.99 to them, along with closing fees of 350. I can pay the 2017 MF direct to marriott, so risk is now reduced. I think I'll take a punt with the circa $400 at risk in case it works out .. it seems unlikely to pass ROFR but we can but hope.

Updated to add

SO I noticed that the various fees on the closing companies invoice included the $25 marriott transfer fee but that there was no reference in the ebay ad or the closing company documents to the $95 Marriott ROFR waiver fee.... which seems strange.

There is no such thing as a GV timeshare to which ROFR does not apply is there?
 
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Robert D

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Marriott has ROFR on the large majority of their resorts but no all. I think GV has a ROFR but I'm not sure. Might post this question on the Marriott forum. For the ones that don't have a ROFR, the fee is just the $25 transfer charge and the ones that have ROFR have a $120 fee ($25 + $95). If you think it won't pass ROFR, you might ask the closing company to submit the contract info to Marriott before you pay the $120 because if they buy it, you don't pay the $120. If they pass on it, the $120 is not due until after the new deed is recorded and it is sent to Marriott for transfer on their system. Marriott usually replies within 2 weeks of receiving the contract info.
 

icydog

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I'd pass on this contract because the seller has a zero rating. I'd never bid on anything, even a small item, from a zero rating seller.

And if you had questions you should have asked them before bidding on the timeshare. Luckily this is a small amount of $$ or you could have been screwed.

I had an annual gold MGV bought back through ROFR for $2500 only a couple of months ago. I wouldn't waste my time or energy on an auction like this one.
 

Talent312

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It appears that the OP is willing to front $400, even with the caution flags raised here.
So, my take is: Check w/Marriott & the closing service about the ROFR, then proceed.
IOW, it's your dime.
.
 

catharsis

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Checked with marriott who confirmed that unit exists, owner is the vendor, and MFS are up to date. They also thought ROFR applies though.

Given I'm now paying all including bid amount to the closing company, who are supposedly keeping it in escrow, and that I've done what due diligence I can I'm going to proceed.

This forum and this process has taught me a lot about the process(although this is not my first eBay resale purchase it has been a while and the last one was more 'regular').

My gratitude to all that responded. I don't really expect to get a GV EOY for $400 all-in but I'm willing to front in case. I'm hoping I've done what I can in terms of due diligence to reduce my risk but if this is a straight-up fraud I'll at least be able to provide feedback about the closing company here on TUG.

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Saintsfanfl

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On ROFR Marriott is not currently exercising GV units so this will in all likelihood pass. Especially since it is an EOY.

Never ever pay anyone maintenance fees that have not yet been paid and especially not yet billed. The listing showing maintenance fees are owed is a big red flag. You said you can pay the 2017 fee directly to Marriott but why did they put it in the listing? Are you sure the 2016 fee has been paid? You say you spoke to Marriott but to me this is odd. Marriott is supposed to have a strict policy that only the owner can request this type of information. Only the existing owner can authorize the release of estoppel info.

Marriott will transfer a timeshare with past due fees on it. Make sure you get a finance estoppel. It is a different estoppel that comes from a different department than the ownership and usage estoppel.

You want to view the 2017 fee as sunk cost for two reasons. First that fee goes with the 2016 usage. Second if you ever resell nobody will want to eat it. So if you are willing to pay it and eat it then count it as part of the purchase price.

Marriott prices for moderate demand units have gone way down since they stopped buybacks and most ROFR's. The price you are paying of ~$1,000 all in is fair but it is not a bargain basement price. I recently paid around $500 all in for the same unit after accounting for half free usage that I received. I paid about the same as you but my usage began in 2016 which I was able to deposit.
 
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travelplus

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I would pass and look to buy a Timeshare Resale from Christopher Nuding We purchased the Sedona Summit from him and the entire process was worth it even if it took time they did everything they said they would do to the T.
 

Robert D

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On ROFR Marriott is not currently exercising GV units so this will in all likelihood pass. Especially since it is an EOY.

Never ever pay anyone maintenance fees that have not yet been paid and especially not yet billed. The listing showing maintenance fees are owed is a big red flag. You said you can pay the 2017 fee directly to Marriott but why did they put it in the listing? Are you sure the 2016 fee has been paid? You say you spoke to Marriott but to me this is odd. Marriott is supposed to have a strict policy that only the owner can request this type of information. Only the existing owner can authorize the release of estoppel info.

Marriott will transfer a timeshare with past due fees on it. Make sure you get a finance estoppel. It is a different estoppel that comes from a different department than the ownership and usage estoppel.

You want to view the 2017 fee as sunk cost for two reasons. First that fee goes with the 2016 usage. Second if you ever resell nobody will want to eat it. So if you are willing to pay it and eat it then count it as part of the purchase price.

Marriott prices for moderate demand units have gone way down since they stopped buybacks and most ROFR's.

What buybacks did they stop doing?
 

catharsis

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update

In the interest of closing the circle, I have heard from the closing comapny that Marriott did indeed exercise ROFR on this EOY Platinum 2bed @ Grande Vista for $50.

The closing company also stated that I will receive a refund of all moneys paid.

I will update the thread to confirm when/If I receive the refund so that the info will be available to other purchasers on TUG in the future.
 

carl2591

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Did they (seller) say how long it might take to get money back? seems like it going on almost 2 month here soon. Plus, not hard to figure Marriott would NOT exercise ROFR on a EOY Platinum 2 bed unit at Grand Vista for $50 bucks. Hell I would go $200 on that deal, they will resale it for 35K no problem.

hope you get your money back but i doubt it.
 

dioxide45

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I am pretty confident you will get a refund. They Ebay sellers work in a gray enough area that they don't want unneeded attention from too many complaints.

Marriott will be able to turn that week over and sell it as 2775 points. The points valuation is worth $36,574.50 to Marriott. A lot of profit on that.
 

dioxide45

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update

In the interest of closing the circle, I have heard from the closing comapny that Marriott did indeed exercise ROFR on this EOY Platinum 2bed @ Grande Vista for $50.

The closing company also stated that I will receive a refund of all moneys paid.

I will update the thread to confirm when/If I receive the refund so that the info will be available to other purchasers on TUG in the future.
Please be sure to log your ROFR experience in the database.

http://www.rofr.net/
 
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