Getting ready to pull trigger on joining DVC: SSR vs AKV

Here's another vote for buy the best deal you can get. I have SSR points from 2008 and have stayed there one time. Meanwhile, I have stayed at every WDW DVC property at least once, including a BWV boardwalk view during Christmas/New Years week (I admit that was quite a catch). Coming up we have Aulani booked for Easter week in April (that did burn two year's worth of points but I wanted the ocean view).

Like many have said, if you can work the 7-month ressie strategy you can almost always find what you want, or something acceptable. With the lower up-front point cost and better-than-average maintenance fees I've never regretted the SSR buying decision.

I too own at SSR and rarely stay there and have owned since 2004.
You will need Priority for the tree houses and holidays otherwise there is always availability at SSR.

I've stayed at all the hard to get DVC's with my SSR points.
AKV Kidani & Jambo, BCV, BWV, OKW, Vero and recently Grand Floridian.
I've booked Aulanai for someone too.

If you don't have to follow the school calendar you can own in SSR and be happy with DVC.
I don't always book 7 months out either.
I tend to book closer in trips and still don't have problems.
As a matter of fact you can now wait list online and many times it will come thru without you even realizing it until you log in again and get a nice surprise.

October and November you can pretty much stay anywhere.
February you might have problems with the holidays, President's week and Valentines. I have gotten BCV during President's week in a 2 bedroom last minute ressie but I'd say you'd need to plan for February.

I look at it as an adventure and take what comes knowing as an owner I am going to go back again and again. I also do lots of split stays which appeals to me so that I can spend time near each park. A few days at AKV and a few at BWV for example. Disney will move your food and luggage for free while you move so it's not stressful at all to do split stays. Check out times is at 11am so you just let bell services know and they arrange everything.

If you are thinking of every 2 year stays you might want to buy two smaller contracts and bank and borrow for APR at two resorts. I wish I had done that for my F & W trips because BWV and BCV is difficult to impossible to get during F&W with all the spec renting. :annoyed:

specmom said:

Hi - I have found this forum very helpful over the last few years. We are deciding on whether to buy into DVC. For a lot of reasons, we think it likely makes sense. We've crunched some numbers & were set on buying a small contract at AKV. The annual dues have given us pause. We realize they will likely stay high & have high increases due to the size & upkeep/maintenance of the property, animals, etc.
So we are rethinking this & wondering if it is a smart idea to buy in to SSR, with full intention of rarely staying there as our home resort. Although we wouldn't mind, we have been told that it is very easy to get in to AKV with the 7-month booking window.
Any feedback on this preconceived notion we've come up with? Also, any thoughts on a fair-to-good resale price-per-point at SSR? I'm thinking $70-72 per point would be very good?
Thank you!

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The best way to rationalize the savings of buying DVC direct or resale & compare different resorts with different MFs & different expiration dates is to calculate the total price per point on contract, which is the current price you are paying for each point you use on that contract-which you can compare to the going rental rate ($14/pt.) to calculate how much buying is saving over renting. To do this, take any contract, take the total purchase cost (incl. closing fees, excluding MFs due for current points, which we'll add back in in a minute), then divide this by total points on contract (years remaining * pts + banked - borrowed points). This gives you a cost per point on contract , which you can then add to the MF/pt. for that resort to get the current total price you are paying for each point you use on that contract. This varies by resort since each resort has different expiration & MFs. It also varies by resale contract since each contract has different borrowed/banked points & closing costs. With this calculation, SSR is typically cheapest total cost per point starting around $7/pt., which at $7/pt your are saving half over renting the same points @ $14/pt from DVCRequest.com or DVCRentalStore.com. This is the rationalization to buy resale, & SSR specifically. For comparison, AUL (sub)/BLT/OKW(ext.) are in the $7-$8/pt. range. VGC/AKV/OKW are $8-$9. HHI/AUL/BWV/BCV/VWL are $9-$10. VB is $10+. Poly direct is currently $9/pt. for existing DVC members-same total price per point as OKW (oldest DVC resort)-yet people complain Poly is expensive. The fallacy is they are comparing face value without factoring in Poly has 82% more points remaining than OKW. Keep in mind, each resort has it's own supply & demand which dictates price, which is why total price per point varies. Demand is driven a lot by perceived value (value of 7-11 mos. booking) & perceived costs (MFs/pt.). Very few people buying Disney calculate what it really costs per point. You can also take the total cost per point (e.g. $7 for SSR) & compare what DVC booking at that rate will save you over rack rates-typically it's around 60% savings if you assume 30% discount off rack rate which is a common promotion. So, this is how you rationalize the purchase-either off rack rate or comparable DVC rental. While total cost per point factors in current MF/pt., another consideration is how relatively low MFs are historically & how stable the % increases are. See my historical MF chart for complete analysis, but SSR has historically low MFs & % increases, along with relatively low face value, & absolutely best overall value. The only real reason to buy anywhere other than SSR is if you need the 7-11 mos. window. The only resorts/rooms that sell out at 7-11 mos. are AKV Jambo Value/Concierge, BLT Standard , VGF Studio/2bdrm lock-off, & BCV 2bdrm (2 queen), AUL Standard views, & sometimes BWV Studio.. Unless you need to book one of those, owning a specific resort isn't really necessary. That said, you have to book exactly at 7 mos @ 8AM online to get your pick of the other resorts/rooms, so if you aren't someone good with setting reminder that far out for a specific date & time, then the 11 mos. window may be a benefit just to book it & forget it. Good luck!

Edit: For a perhaps simpler explanation of how to calculate DVC savings over direct booking, see http://www.tikimanpages.com/poly/news/item/223-polynesian-dvc-for-sale about half way down -- same method I use.

specmom said:

Thank you for the replies! To answer the questions: I am a planner. We would almost ALWAYS book 7-months out. We would likely travel in Oct/Nov or Feb. We would almost never go in the summer. While Xmas/Easter would be on our list at some point (as would staying at least once at all the properties), we actually prefer off times when the crowds are lower.
I should've mentioned...we've only ever been to AKV & BWV. Never SSR. However, I have done a TON of research. Truth is, BWV location cannot be beat but I prefer the resort-vibe over location. The buses were not a deal to us at AKV because they are direct & don't make 5 stops. But those annual fees sure do scare us.
Thanks again!

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Keep in mind high park demand != high DVC demand. October is actually extremely high-demand for DVC. You have to book exactly at 7 mos @ 8AM to get your choice of resort, especially Studios, which always sell out first.

specmom said:

Thanks so much, Elaine. This is such helpful info. My husband REALLY has no interest in SSR, so we are back to considering AKV. I really am unimpressed by those annual dues though. I can plan much farther out beyond 7 months. I am trying to locate/figure out how much I'd end up paying per night for a week at AKV as an owner, assuming we go 1x every 1-2 yrs. Basically, I'm trying to rationalize this. We are also interested in renting our pts from time to time. Thanks again for the helpful input!

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See above calculation for how to rationalize the direct vs. resale savings, factoring in various MFs. All up, you're going to save about 50% over renting AKV by buying SSR ($7/pt vs $14/pt), or about 60% over direct booking (assuming 30% discount off rack rates, which is pretty standard).

piyooshj said:

Great discussion on this thread. So one of hgvc Orlando will disqualify me from Orlando dvc properties via RCI?

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Maybe-presently, when you book DVC in RCI it explicitly states they can review your reservation & cancel it if you are booking it with an Orlando based ownership. That said, HGVC just shows up as HGVC points to RCI, so they (currently) have no way to tell you are trading in from an Orlando HGVC. So, unless someone from DVC audits the exchange, 99% chance it won't get cancelled. That said, you are rolling the dice as things could change. As a DVC & HGVC owner, my advice is buy HGVC where the points & MFs are lowest since 9 mos. availability at Orlando HGVC is never an issue.

Question: How does it work buying 2 dvc resale small contracts? Can they be at separate resorts? Does that give "home resort" advantage to let's say AKV and SSR? And can you then combine pts from 2 different contracts to stay in a 2br let's say? Am I just confusing myself? I am asking way too many questions...

For a perhaps simpler explanation of how to calculate DVC savings over direct booking, see http://www.tikimanpages.com/poly/new...n-dvc-for-sale about half way down

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This ignores the time value of money---it assumes that $30,000 today is the same as $1,000 a year for 30 years. The former is "worth" much more. For those of you who disagree: feel free to give me $30K, and I'll give you $1K every year for the next 30 years. There is no limit to the number of people who can take me up on this deal.

(Edited to add: now we'll see if there are any deflationary bears in the audience.)

specmom said:

Question: How does it work buying 2 dvc resale small contracts? Can they be at separate resorts?

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sure can.

Does that give "home resort" advantage to let's say AKV and SSR?

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if you buy 25 AKV (animal kingdom villas) pts and 250 SSR (saratoga springs) pts and want to book AKV at 11 months out, you can only use pts from the AKV contract. it's like you don't even own the SSR pts until you get to the 7 month window.

it doesn't matter what resorts you own, it is the points themselves that have the home resort advantage.

you can transfer in 200 bay lake tower (BLT) pts from a BLT owner and book BLT at 11 months out, but there is no way to use nonhome pts at a different home resort at 11 months out.

And can you then combine pts from 2 different contracts to stay in a 2br let's say?

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it depends on whether you buy pts under one membership (that are titled exactly the same and have the same use year).

if pts are under one membership, you can easily combine pts at 11 months out if they are the same home resort. so if you have a 200 pt AKV contract and add-on a 50 pt AKV contract, they would work like a single 250 pt contract when booking (but you can still sell or will the contracts separately).


if pts are under one membership, you can easily combine pts at 7 months out if they are from different home resorts. so if you have a 200 pt SSR contract and add-on a 50 pt AKV contract, they would work like a single 250 pt contract when booking at 7 months out (but you can still sell or will the contracts separately).

if you buy 2 contracts with different UYs (or titled differently), they are more complicated to use. so if you have a 200 pt SSR contract with an april UY and add-on a 50 pt AKV contract with an oct UY, you can still book a 2BR for 4-5 nights with the SSR contract and then book another night or 2 with the AKV pts and ask MS to link the reservations so you can stay in the same room (probably still have to check out and back in). the contracts also have different banking windows. it's more of a hassle unless you are a very detailed planner...

Charles, if you own two different use years, can you transfer between them to simplify things?

Understood, thank you!

bnoble;171979if said:

Charles, if you own two different use years, can you transfer between them to simplify things?

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That is one solution.

But you only get one transfer per year (in or out, but not both). DVC didn't use to count transfers against you if they were for the same owner but lately it sounds like that has changed, which hurts you if you wanted to do another transfer in that use year.

Also, transferred pts cannot be borrowed, so that can limit you.

It's not unworkable if you get a great deal on a different use year and you are organized. But it's a lot easier to keep things under one member number.

specmom said:

Question: How does it work buying 2 dvc resale small contracts? Can they be at separate resorts? Does that give "home resort" advantage to let's say AKV and SSR? And can you then combine pts from 2 different contracts to stay in a 2br let's say? Am I just confusing myself? I am asking way too many questions...

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You end up with two separate "Memberships"-- can't use on same reservation without transferring between memberships, which can only be done with current year points, and is not reversible. Transferred points maintain Home resort and UY of original points, and can be banked for following UY of original contract. As far as home resort advantage, regardless of same UY or not, you can only use Home resort points to book 7-11 mos. That said, you can borrow next years home resort points to book home resort at 11 mos, then swap out the current year home resort points (not the borrowed home resort points since you can't bank the borrowed points, so have to use them) at 7 mos for your other resort (e.g. SSR) and bank the current year home resort points back to next year and rinse and repeat . So you really only need half the points needed to book @ 11 mos. Another strategy is to buy enough points to only book the Fr/Sa nights @ 11 mos since, if anything, those are the nights that sell out @ 11 mos. The other advantage of that approach, is @ 7 mos you already have the first two nights, effectively blocking any 7 mos reservation for the following days (since you can only book 7 mos + 7 days if the first day is available), and can call MS to extend the reservation for 7 days @ 7 mos -- using your other resort points.

chalee94 said:

That is one solution.

But you only get one transfer per year (in or out, but not both). DVC didn't use to count transfers against you if they were for the same owner but lately it sounds like that has changed, which hurts you if you wanted to do another transfer in that use year.

Also, transferred pts cannot be borrowed, so that can limit you.

It's not unworkable if you get a great deal on a different use year and you are organized. But it's a lot easier to keep things under one member number.

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Borrowing doesn't apply since only current year points can be transferred. Therefore, banked/borrowed points cannot be transferred, but transferred points can be banked. Clear as mud?

rfc0001 said:

You end up with two separate "Memberships"-- can't use on same reservation without transferring between memberships, which can only be done with current year points, and is not reversible.

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Not necessarily. If the name and UY is exactly the same, it is the "same" membership and the points are pooled together without having to transfer.

To keep it simple, I would recommend that if you buy a contract and want to then add on later, to get the same use year at the same resort. For example, we bought at SSR with a September use year, then we added on another small contract for 25 pts. at SSR with the same September use year.

rfc0001 said:

Borrowing doesn't apply since only current year points can be transferred. Therefore, banked/borrowed points cannot be transferred, but transferred points can be banked. Clear as mud?

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the material point is that if you own 2 contracts under the same membership number, you can easily pool the points to use up to 3 years worth of points to book a reservation...which is not possible if you are using point transfers between your contracts.

Myxdvz said:

Not necessarily. If the name and UY is exactly the same, it is the "same" membership and the points are pooled together without having to transfer.

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Yep, thanks for clarifying.

I just wanted to thank everyone on this thread for taking the time to offer replies. We've decided to jump on a resale SSR contract with 160pts at $72pp. It is an October Use-Year and while I still don't fully understand how that works, I'm hoping that is a good choice. (Our plans are to travel primarily in February/March, occasionally Oct/Nov/June, NEVER July or August). Thanks again!

specmom said:

I just wanted to thank everyone on this thread for taking the time to offer replies. We've decided to jump on a resale SSR contract with 160pts at $72pp. It is an October Use-Year and while I still don't fully understand how that works, I'm hoping that is a good choice. (Our plans are to travel primarily in February/March, occasionally Oct/Nov/June, NEVER July or August). Thanks again!

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As far as use years, my initial strategy was to pick one of the most common, since the thought was there would be the most resales for that UY if I added on (you could argue there would be more demand too, so may not matter). If you subscribe to this logic, June is one of the most common and the default use year for any new resort. A couple functional reasons to own one versus another:

1. You can't make reservations that span UYs. You have to make two and link them, so not a huge deal
2. Any banked or borrowed points have to be used by your UY month or they expire
3. More importantly, your banking window is 4 months before your UY, so if you make reservations anytime up to 4 months before your UY, and cancel those reservations within 4 months of your stay, you can't bank the points. This is bad, and despite being an immaculate planner, it happens. Case and point, we planned to use all our banked and remaining points for a 2bdrm Premier Season spring break week (500+ points) so the grandparents could come, and my father-in-law is having back surgery so won't be able to travel. I could cancel and book a 1 bdrm, but I missed the banking window by 2 days (Saturday), so I couldn't bank the unused points.

Given the above, my advice is to pick a UY where it's very likely you won't be travelling in the four months leading up to it, to guarantee you won't lose points. February would be perfect, since that would have you 12 months to use any Feb-Mar reservations you had to cancel. October isn't bad, since you still have until October to use any banked/borrowed points if one of your Feb/Mar reservations fall through and aren't at risk of the 4 month banking window falling during one of your stays (unless you book July-Oct. July would worry me, but our schedule is more March, June-July, Oct. In our case, March would be perfect, since the preceeding 4 months don't fall during any of the times we would be travelling.

All this said, as long as you have a single UY, anything is manageable, and you can always rent points that are expiring. I just rented 350 points @ $12 in one week just using the DIS boards, and have rented "premium" resorts using brokers for $13/pt within days. There are always people willing to rent at a discount to Disney's rack rates (which equate to ~$24/pt).

specmom said:

I just wanted to thank everyone on this thread for taking the time to offer replies. We've decided to jump on a resale SSR contract with 160pts at $72pp. It is an October Use-Year and while I still don't fully understand how that works, I'm hoping that is a good choice. (Our plans are to travel primarily in February/March, occasionally Oct/Nov/June, NEVER July or August). Thanks again!

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Use year would not be a critical determining point, more important to get the right number of points at the right price and hopefully with points available and/or banked (i.e. Loaded with points).

For future contracts I would stay with the same use year as the first to make life a bit less complicated. Hope you pass ROFR.

Does DVC typically use ROFR? Hoping on a $72pp at SSR for 160pts, there wouldn't be an issue. :/

specmom said:

Does DVC typically use ROFR? Hoping on a $72pp at SSR for 160pts, there wouldn't be an issue. :/

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It depends. Is the contract loaded, stripped? Make sure you understadnt he value of any points you're getting (or not) as it hugely influences the initial buy-in price. I'll PM you a link to here you can see what's been happening re ROFR.

FYI, from my perspective watching contracts, it seems like the resale price has been slowly but gradually increasing. With new points at PVB @ $165 after 2/9 - makes sense.

It has no banked pts. Just 160 coming up in Oct. Seemed completely fair and straight forward from what I've seen.

specmom said:

Does DVC typically use ROFR? Hoping on a $72pp at SSR for 160pts, there wouldn't be an issue. :/

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Check out the ROFR threads on DIS Boards for historical passed/taken contracts. If you analyze them, there is no correlation with price or points on contract. They randomly take whatever contract that fits the UY/points that is on their desk when a member add-on purchase comes through (which is why they ROFR -- to fill orders by members). That said, they do have a slight preference towards cheaper contracts -- obviously if two contracts are sitting on their desk when an order comes through, they'll take the one that's cheaper and therefore make higher margin on the direct purchase. That said, you'll see $60 SSR pass and $90 SSR get taken when you look at the historicals, so it really isn't the deciding factor. Luck and timing is. That said, good luck (and congratulations)!

That suggests there is no rhyme or reason, so I'll try not to worry about something that I have no control over and hope for
the best. Thanks!

specmom said:

That suggests there is no rhyme or reason, so I'll try not to worry about something that I have no control over and hope for
the best. Thanks!

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BTW, lately the turnaround on ROFR has only been 2 weeks so not too much of a nailbiter

OOTH, I don't think I've ever heard of SSR being ROFR'd...

Goodness, SSR is now $72? Last time I was looking (late 2012/early 2013) was $55 OKW and that was ROFR'd.

Prices have gone up as leisure travel demand continues to strengthen. I'm seeing this in a lot of different systems (and in other ways beyond timeshare resale price.)