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Historic week in America!!!!

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Elan

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OFFS! Yes, I'm proposing that we vote nationally to be allowed to publicly stone cats and small children.
Really?


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SueDonJ

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OFFS! Yes, I'm proposing that we vote nationally to be allowed to publicly stone cats and small children.
Really?


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:) I don't think that you want to stone cats or children. But maybe if you explain which items you think would benefit more from "majority rule" than the system in place now, we might understand you better?
 

am1

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The majority should not always rule.

But the goal now seems to be what can get the most votes without alienating the other side too much is the way to go.
 

Clemson Fan

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That's fine. It will undoubtedly need tweaking or perhaps even a complete overhaul. But at least the ball is rolling.

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I kind of agree with that. However, I don't think either party has the will or backbone to do what's actually needed. What makes healthcare so expensive in the U.S. is the layers and layers of middle men and women. Getting rid of that will cost millions of jobs which neither party will sign onto.
 

Clemson Fan

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:) I don't think that you want to stone cats or children. But maybe if you explain which items you think would benefit more from "majority rule" than the system in place now, we might understand you better?

The presidential election. The electoral college stinks! Why should someone's vote from Florida count a hell of a lot more than my vote in Hawaii?

My parents are flaming liberals who retired to SC. Their presidential election vote in SC is meaningless. I usually flip flop between parties, but if I want to vote for the Republican candidate in Hawaii I might as well not even bother going to the polls.
 
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geoand

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While its increased the number of insured, it's anything but affordable as its name makes it out to be. I don't think it has any real staying power because it's going to become so expensive so quickly that the government will need to step in and make significant modifications and cutbacks to it. A good portion of your tax (and really deficit) dollars are going to go to the insurance companies and their massive infrastructure and not actual patient care.

I don't know about the accuracy of above but can confidently say that ACA dropped the cost of DW and my insurance by by over $800 a month.
 

taterhed

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Ugggg.

Been grinding my teeth over this thread so long, my molars are starting to hurt.

Any country that gives (ultimately) free medical care to aliens and indigents (who need healthcare too) but prohibits productive citizens from getting insurance based on their 'conditions'.....and then bankrupts the same productive citizens when they get sick....needs a review/reform for the healthcare system IMO

I don't have a solution, but I sure have the bills and price increases for my healthcare.

True story: took the kid to the Urgent health for broken wrist. At the end 'yup, it's broke...' they offered him a sling to wear home. keep in mind, he hadn't been in a sling for 3 hours. I said sure. Then, WAIT. How much will I/my insurance be billed for that that disposable paper/cloth sling?

I waited 20 mins, but finally got an answer: my insurance negotiated price (not full price mind you, a discounted price) for the sling was $39.

I said thanks, but no. I bought it from the drugstore in the parking lot (same lot) when I filled his prescription: $9.99 for a real cloth sling.

Somebody needs to fix healthcare before it 'sinks' all on its own.

JMHO
 

SueDonJ

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The presidential election. The electoral college stinks! Why should someone's vote from Florida count a hell of a lot more than my vote in Hawaii?

My parents are flaming liberals who retired to SC. Their presidential election vote in SC is meaningless. I usually flip flop between parties, but if I want to vote for the Republican candidate in Hawaii I might as well not even bother going to the polls.

Great. Now I know to expect when we move to SC that my vote will be meaningless. ;) (Although, it usually is anyway because Don and I cancel each other out more times than not. And "flaming liberal" is sometimes the kindest thing he calls me during election seasons. :D)

Despite the electoral college giving all of us fits at one time or another, I do see the sense in its purpose. But I also think it can be legitimately questioned whether the numbers are tweaked often enough or correctly.
 

Clemson Fan

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Despite the electoral college giving all of us fits at one time or another, I do see the sense in its purpose. But I also think it can be legitimately questioned whether the numbers are tweaked often enough or correctly.

It's an outdated system that long ago outlived its intended purpose. With it now there are really only a dozen or so states that have any real meaning (and power) with presidential elections. That's were 80% of the spending and campaigning is done. Here in Hawaii you barely even know that there's a presidential election going on. That's not so bad because we get spared all the commercials. :D

BTW, if there was no electoral college we never would've had Bush 2 as president. :cool:
 

DeniseM

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Folks - some people are taking advantage of this thread to go way over the political line. That will get is closed down quick.
 

Clemson Fan

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Great. Now I know to expect when we move to SC that my vote will be meaningless. ;)

If you move to the same town as my parents and join the Democratic Party with them there you'll increase the membership by 50%! :D

The small crowd does have its benefits. My parents got to have lunch and pretty long personal conversations with both Michelle Obama and Joe Biden when they were campaigning for the presidential primary 7-8 years ago.
 

DeniseM

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Clemson Fan - please stop.
 

PStreet1

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The electoral college isn't "entirely outdated." This video, while simplistic in the beginning, takes less than 5 minutes to watch, and it does explain the rationale that keeps the electoral college as a part of our process. http://prageruniversity.com/Politic...stand-the-Electoral-College.html#.VZInaJepQgs

At any given time in our history, this country has had the potential to be, or was, dominated by one faction; however, so far, the systems that are in place have always managed to change what faction dominates or what states are swing states or what issues turn out to be relevant. The only time most people get upset about the checks and balances being there are when the party/faction/idealogy currently dominating isn't one they agree with; the rest of the time, most of us are are quite content with one faction/party/idea logy dominating because, after all, "it's the right one."

I'd rather keep the process and put up with my belief--obviously, the correct one--not currently being in vogue than junk the systems that, at least so far, have kept this country vacillating between viewpoints, but in general, moving forward.
 

Clemson Fan

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The electoral college isn't "entirely outdated." This video, while simplistic in the beginning, takes less than 5 minutes to watch, and it does explain the rationale that keeps the electoral college as a part of our process. http://prageruniversity.com/Politic...stand-the-Electoral-College.html#.VZInaJepQgs

At any given time in our history, this country has had the potential to be, or was, dominated by one faction; however, so far, the systems that are in place have always managed to change what faction dominates or what states are swing states or what issues turn out to be relevant. The only time most people get upset about the checks and balances being there are when the party/faction/idealogy currently dominating isn't one they agree with; the rest of the time, most of us are are quite content with one faction/party/idea logy dominating because, after all, "it's the right one."

I'd rather keep the process and put up with my belief--obviously, the correct one--not currently being in vogue than junk the systems that, at least so far, have kept this country vacillating between viewpoints, but in general, moving forward.

Good old Denis Prager. While I agree with the tyranny majority argument that has been bought up in this thread before, I really think it's outdated when it comes to the electoral college. When he speaks of coalition building and voter fraud in the video I actually think those are strong arguments against the electoral college. The electoral college creates a system where in each election only a handful of states hold all the power. That's where all the campaigning time and money is spent. Everybody else is essentially ignored. Also with voter fraud it's a lot more powerful if by just doing it in one state you can swing a whole election (hanging chads anyone! - not that I really think that had any basis). The "swing states" do sometimes change, but probably in about 30 or so states it hasn't changed in 100 years or so.

There have been 4 elections in our history where the winner of the popular vote lost the election, but it's only happened once since 1888. To me that speaks to the electoral college being outdated. I'd much rather have it where every citizens vote counts the same as everybody else's. As it stands now my presidential vote in Hawaii probably only counts 1/5 or even less than somebody voting in Florida or Michigan.
 

Passepartout

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[Big Snip] I'd much rather have it where every citizens vote counts the same as everybody else's.

Much of this thread has been about the marriage decision, that I suspect affects darn few TUGgers. For those affected, Hurray!

One of the most important decisions was announced on the last Monday of the session will effect every voter. The one that takes control of drawing voting districts away from lawmakers who are subject to it's effect, and puts that control in the hands of independent commissions, and makes their drawing of districts final. So long, Eldridge Gerry, been nice knowing you! So much for convoluted boundaries engineered to assure passage of key elections.

Read more here from Nat'l Constitution Center: http://news.yahoo.com/constitution-...inning-legal-trouble-101811888--politics.html

Jim
 

Ken555

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Much of this thread has been about the marriage decision, that I suspect affects darn few TUGgers. For those affected, Hurray!



One of the most important decisions was announced on the last Monday of the session will effect every voter. The one that takes control of drawing voting districts away from lawmakers who are subject to it's effect, and puts that control in the hands of independent commissions, and makes their drawing of districts final. So long, Eldridge Gerry, been nice knowing you! So much for convoluted boundaries engineered to assure passage of key elections.



Read more here from Nat'l Constitution Center: http://news.yahoo.com/constitution-...inning-legal-trouble-101811888--politics.html



Jim


Yes, this is huge. And quite welcome.


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CO skier

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Much of this thread has been about the marriage decision, that I suspect affects darn few TUGgers.

Justice Scalia explained how this decision affects every American citizen, including TUGgers.

"It is not of special importance to me what the law says about marriage. It is of overwhelming importance, however, who it is that rules me. Today’s decree says that my Ruler, and the Ruler of 320 million Americans coast-to-coast, is a majority of the nine lawyers on the Supreme Court. The opinion in these cases is the furthest extension in fact— and the furthest extension one can even imagine—of the Court’s claimed power to create 'liberties' that the Constitution and its Amendments neglect to mention. This practice of constitutional revision by an unelected committee of nine, always accompanied (as it is today) by extravagant praise of liberty, robs the People of the most important liberty they asserted in the Declaration of Independence and won in the Revolution of 1776; the freedom to govern themselves."

______________________________________________________________

Putting the specific issue aside and reading the dissenting opinions for what the justices have to say regarding Constitutional rights should inform every American who believes in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

It is how the Supreme Court reached its decision that offends. Constitutional Amendments are intentionally exceedingly difficult to enact and for very good reasons. The five justices essentially hung a sign on the Fourteenth Amendment that reads, "Express Lane for unwritten Constitutional Amendments starts here." Every citizen, if not angered, should at least be concerned.

The true message of the dissenting justices, sadly, gets lost in all the emotion surrounding the marriage issue.
 
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rleigh

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[....]

The true message of the dissenting justices, sadly, gets lost in all the emotion surrounding the marriage issue.


Yes, this, absolutely agree 100%. This is what's driving me crazy!
 

wilma

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Passepartout

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Putting the specific issue aside and reading the dissenting opinions for what the justices have to say regarding Constitutional rights should inform every American who believes in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

It is how the Supreme Court reached its decision that offends. Constitutional Amendments are intentionally exceedingly difficult to enact and for very good reasons.

CO skier, you continue to quote the dissenting justices. In the interest of equal space for both sides, here's an excerpt from the majority opinion: "In the majority opinion, the justices outlined several reasons same-sex marriage should be allowed. They wrote that the right to marriage is an inherent aspect of individual autonomy, since "decisions about marriage are among the most intimate that an individual can make." They also said gay Americans have a right to "intimate association" beyond merely freedom from laws that ban homosexuality.

Extending the right to marry protects families and "without the recognition, stability, and predictability marriage offers, children suffer the stigma of knowing their families are somehow lesser," the justices wrote.

The majority concluded that the right for same-sex couples to marry is protected under the 14th Amendment, citing the clauses that guarantee equal protection and due process.

OK. I get it. You don't like the ruling. But it's over. Marriage equality is the law of the land in the United States and it's territories. Post flyers in your neighborhood. Buy billboards. Pay for TV ads, but you'll not change my mind, and my meagre words are not likely to change yours.

I think I've said (probably more than I needed to) on this subject.

The purpose of the thread was to celebrate a very historic week. Not to re-try the arguments that were held before open court many months ago.

Jim
 

TUGBrian

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pretty sure everyone has said their peace on this...
 
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