2015 Proposed MF's and Budgets [15% MF Increase!]

suzannesimon · Oct 20, 2014

I just received the Frenchman's Cove maintenance fee invoice. It is up 6.9%. The scary thing is we still have a developer's subsidy. How much longer will that last?

Superchief · Oct 21, 2014

dioxide45 said:
That would make sense but it would also push up trust point MFs making them less competitive. Plus, MVCI has to pay the MFs on any unsold trust points, so it would also cut in to their profit margin on the inventory they rent out.

Does MVCI pay the same MFs on unsold trust points as weeks owners pay for their week? I have never seen any information regarding how much MCVI contributes to maintenance costs, and whether it differs by whether a resort is primarily trust owned or weeks.

Since all points are created equal (not by season), and there is a gap between points charged vs. points allocated, how do they determine their liabilities for the resort maintenance and other costs? In some cases (Oceana Palms Gold, Royal Palms) my cost per point is much higher than the .45 per DC point MF.

Superchief · Oct 21, 2014

suenmike32 said:
Actually, the explanation that outlines the issue came in a letter, (as well as the proposed budget), from the manager of Ocean Pointe.
The letter is very informative as to what may, or may not happen, if the "fully funded reserve amount" is not waived.

OP"s BOD's has recommended that the FFR is waived weeks prior to this letter. If it is not waived, the "proposed" MF's are going to increase substantially.

I really appreciated this helpful information. The issue was clearly communicated and compelling. I didn't receive anything from my other MVC resorts with similar huge increases that appear to be driven by reserves and the associated management fees. I'm not sure whether this was initiated by the BOD or resort management.

Superchief · Oct 21, 2014

dioxide45 said:
I think the majority only needs to come from those that actually vote, given that a quorum is met. Also, at Oceana Palms I would suspect that a quorum is always met and given that Marriott holds over 50% (or close to it) of the inventory in the trust. I would also suspect what Marriott says goes.

I am unclear whether it takes a majority of actual voters or a majority of total owners to waive the reserve requirements. It would be very difficult to get a majority of owners, since many people never vote.

Fasttr · Oct 21, 2014

Superchief said:
Does MVCI pay the same MFs on unsold trust points as weeks owners pay for their week? I have never seen any information regarding how much MCVI contributes to maintenance costs, and whether it differs by whether a resort is primarily trust owned or weeks.

Since all points are created equal (not by season), and there is a gap between points charged vs. points allocated, how do they determine their liabilities for the resort maintenance and other costs? In some cases (Oceana Palms Gold, Royal Palms) my cost per point is much higher than the .45 per DC point MF.

I think the MF's on weeks in the trust are billed based on the same facts and circumstances that a weeks owner would pay. They are based on the approved budgets of each resort as assessed on that underlying week.

Then, the Trust tallies up all those costs, and allocates that costs across all points (sold and unsold) as supported by those underlying weeks. They also tack on additional costs to run the DC, costs for short stay burdens at the resorts, etc, etc to come up with a fully loaded MF per point for the Trust. I'm sure the Trust is responsible for the MF's on all unsold points, but how and when those are paid is likely a little less clear cut than getting an invoice near year end and paying it like a Trust points owner would.

At least those are my very simplified assumptions as to how they do it.

suenmike32 · Oct 21, 2014

Superchief said:
I really appreciated this helpful information. The issue was clearly communicated and compelling. I didn't receive anything from my other MVC resorts with similar huge increases that appear to be driven by reserves and the acociated management fees. I'm not sure whether this was initiated by the BOD or resort management.

I found it quite helpful as well and I hope that all OP owners take the time to read it...and ultimately vote.
I also think that the letter may have been a collaboration between the BOD and management. I think that both entities work very hard at communicating, working together and trying to make OP the great resort that it is.

cam28 · Oct 27, 2014

Maintenance Fee Increases Out of Control

Hello,
Does anyone else out there think these fees are out of control? We love going to our Marriott properties and using our points but these fees are getting crazy. We own 4 weeks and are paying close to $5k/year. Has anyone out there ever challenged these fees? I think most people get the budgets and just file them or throw away and then write checks. At the rate that these fees are increasing before you know it, we'll be at $10k/yr! Help!

bogey21 · Oct 27, 2014

In many ways you get what you pay for. One of reasons I decided to sell my Marriott Weeks and purchase Weeks at HOA controlled Independents with way lower MFs many years ago were the Marriott MFs and the track they were on. A clear trade off though is a definite step down in quality. If your MFs get too far out of hand for your budget, make a change. If you can live with them and quality is paramount, stick with Marriott.

George

pedro47 · Oct 27, 2014

cam28 said:
Hello,
Does anyone else out there think these fees are out of control? We love going to our Marriott properties and using our points but these fees are getting crazy. We own 4 weeks and are paying close to $5k/year. Has anyone out there ever challenged these fees? I think most people get the budgets and just file them or throw away and then write checks. At the rate that these fees are increasing before you know it, we'll be at $10k/yr! Help!

Yes! The cost per day has really gone up from the time we first purchased in 1986 from $29.00 per day to over $210.00 per day.

n777lt · Oct 28, 2014

cam28 said:
Hello,
Does anyone else out there think these fees are out of control? We love going to our Marriott properties and using our points but these fees are getting crazy. We own 4 weeks and are paying close to $5k/year. Has anyone out there ever challenged these fees? I think most people get the budgets and just file them or throw away and then write checks. At the rate that these fees are increasing before you know it, we'll be at $10k/yr! Help!

The way to "challenge" the fees is to marshall an owners' movement to attend the meeting or to vote their proxies against hte proposed budget or to give their proxy to someone who is going to the meeting to oppose the budget or to put up candidates for the Board (and get him/her elected) who intend to keep the fees down. None of those are easy.

Xpat · Oct 28, 2014

Grand Chateau is apparently bucking the trend with just a 0.2% increase.
At $1150 it is still considerably higher than the Vegas HGVC timeshares. I wonder if this is true also in other locations where there are both Marriott and HGVC (or SVN, Hyatt, etc) properties.

bazzap · Oct 28, 2014

St Kitts Beach Club has a reasonably contained 2.1% overall increase.
Thankfully, it is interesting to see that the Operating Fee increase has been limited to 0.9% primarily due to energy savings as a result of the chiller project.
The Reserve Fee increase though is 7% primarily due to increased bad debt
- a worrying trend?

GregT · Oct 29, 2014

MOC estimated MF increase

I'm not posting this in the official MF thread as its not yet billed, but I was told by the property GM today that the MFs for 2015 will go up 3%.

I will confirm this as soon as I receive the bill.

Best,

Greg

BocaBoy · Oct 29, 2014

GregT said:
I'm not posting this in the official MF thread as its not yet billed, but I was told by the property GM today that the MFs for 2015 will go up 3%.

I will confirm this as soon as I receive the bill.

Best,

Greg

It could be worse, but that is still an increase for a 2BR in the new towers of $65-$70. MVCI maintenance fees are out of control and as a result we have decided to sell one of our two beloved Maui weeks. Ko Olina's increases for 2015 are even greater. Grand Chateau in a surprise move actually reduced their maintenance fees for 2015. Five years ago we owned six MVCI weeks and paid about $7000 in maintenance fees. We sold two and the fees were then about $6500. Then we sold another and the fees were then $6300. So we now own half as many weeks as five years ago and our fees are only down about 10%. (Caveat: These are approximate figures from my memory and not precise, but they are reasonably close.)

We need to cut our losses before inflation returns. I can only imagine what these resorts will do with the fees then.

BocaBoy · Oct 29, 2014

jpl88 said:
Grand Chateau is apparently bucking the trend with just a 0.2% increase.

I posted that our 2015 maintenance fee for Grand Chateau actually decreased. We own a 3BR there, so that probably explains why yours went up a tiny bit and ours went down. At Grand Chateau certain expenses are allocated equally across units regardless of size. This occurs in some areas where the benefits and expenses between units are exactly the same. (Example: reservations, where a 3BR lockoff requires the exact same manpower and number of transactions as a 2BR lockoff.)

SueDonJ · Nov 1, 2014

Which Owners are assessed the "International Owner Service Fee" as a component of their MF's? I'd like to note it in the FAQ's. Thanks!

bazzap · Nov 1, 2014

SueDonJ said:
Which Owners are assessed the "International Owner Service Fee" as a component of their MF's? I'd like to note it in the FAQ's. Thanks!

Hi Susan
As UK resident owners:-
we are assessed the "International Owner Service Fee" for our Grand Chateau and St Kitts Beach Club weeks
We are not, to the best of my recollection, assessed the "International Owner Service Fee" for our Phuket Beach Club, Club Son Antem or Playa Andaluza weeks.
(or for our Premier Plus Club Dues, although we do have to pay Spain VAT on these)

MALC9990 · Nov 2, 2014

bazzap said:
Hi Susan
As UK resident owners:-
we are assessed the "International Owner Service Fee" for our Grand Chateau and St Kitts Beach Club weeks
We are not, to the best of my recollection, assessed the "International Owner Service Fee" for our Phuket Beach Club, Club Son Antem or Playa Andaluza weeks.
(or for our Premier Plus Club Dues, although we do have to pay Spain VAT on these)

I can echo Barry's comment. For our resorts in Spain and Thailand, I nave never seen a specific charge for International Ownership. Really it would make no sense since in Phuket, almost every owner would be an International owner since very few Thai's are owners. The same for Spain, at Son Antem ownership is over 95% non-Spanish with Brits and Germans each making up 30% each of the ownership with other European Nations making up most of the rest. Perhaps the charge should be reversed outside of the USA with only US owners in Spain and Thailand paying such a charge. Also I do not see why only non-US owners pay such a charge in St. kitts - why - When did St Kitts become part of the USA. Rant over !

2015 Proposed MF's and Budgets [15% MF Increase!]

suzannesimon

Superchief

Superchief

Superchief

Fasttr

TUG Review Crew

suenmike32

cam28

bogey21

pedro47

TUG Review Crew: Expert

n777lt

Xpat

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

GregT

TUG Member

BocaBoy

BocaBoy

SueDonJ

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

MALC9990