Club Intrawest - citheownersgroup.wix.com/home

New website for those Club Intrawest owners who prefer to browse a website for information rather than use Facebook.
It is located at citheownersgroup.wix.com/home

We also have an email now:
ci.theownersgroup@gmail.com

WOW what a great website

the Quick facts (under the files tab) is wonderful

The clubs documents were sure set up with full power in the hands of the developer

Concerning our website and the information posted on it: Club Intrawest is NOT unique!
I just want to point out to everyone that most timeshares operate with the same model as Club Intrawest's... We're just not aware of it until something happens to make us question the status quo. In our case, a member who knows how to read the timeshare's contracts and governing documents and fully understand what they mean explained it all in simple language everyone can understand.

The Quick Facts documents on our new website simply reflect the standard bylaws/instruments of most timeshares except the rare ones that were able to obtain enough member votes to replace the developer/manager's Board of Director majority with a true member board. Marriott, Hilton, Wyndham, DRI all operate under a similar model, members/owners are simply unaware of it.

Developers/managers generally retain control of the timeshare even long after the units/points are by a large majority sold. In our case, the trust is 94% owned by members but only 1 out of 5 BoD members is "independent" and because the developer vote equals 1 vote per point owned and members' votes equal 1/15 per point owned, the developer manager retains over 40% of the voting power making it very, very difficult for the members/owners to overthrow the status quo and change the composition of the board, control maintenance fee increases, review financial statements (the board does this "for" the members) and other key elements of the administration of the club.

This means the developer/manager could make and change all the rules in their own interest such as increasing fees, adding/removing properties from the trust etc. without members/owners being able to do much until most of them are mobilized. Which is a colossal task...

Our "Cheat Sheet" is open to view by anyone who goes to our site and is the topic of our second blog post:

http://citheownersgroup.wix.com/home

It can be found in the "Files/Documents" tab.

Sorry all

Somehow I closed this thread by accident


BUT it is now open again

Bill

cd5 said:

New website for those Club Intrawest owners who prefer to browse a website for information rather than use Facebook.
It is located at citheownersgroup.wix.com/home

We also have an email now:
ci.theownersgroup@gmail.com

Click to expand...

Chantal,

The CI Owners Group website is fabulous. Thank you!

RE:
"Kenneth Smith (member, elected in 2014 as incumbent; owner of company that performs the club’s finances – yes, he’s in conflict of interest)."

I wonder if you can add (to the statement above) the year that Mr. Smith was initially appointed/elected to his position as Director of Club Intrawest, and the number of years that Mr. Smith has continuosly served in that capacity?

Mr. Smith's contiguous terms as an Independent Director of Club Intrawest, have captured my attention for years. I expressed my concern about Mr. Smith's contiguous terms, and the absence of Term Limits for members of the Club Intrawest Board of Directors, particularly, the alleged "Independent Directors," on numerous occasions, as far back as 13 years ago, to then Club Intrawest President, Jim Gibbons. In my opinion, my inquiry was viewed as inconsistent with the direction that the then leaders of Club Intrawest wanted to take Club Intrawest, and the concept that I was advocating, of ensuring some turnover of the Independent Directors, was ill received.

I've never been able to figure out what was potentially "in it" for Mr. Smith, but, I now "get it," and I am more disappointed now than I was when I did not know of Mr. Smith's dual role as a Principal of the company that performs the Club's finances, and an (alleged) "Independent Director" of Club Intrawest.

I will ask Gwyneth Edwards (she is responsible for those fantastic documents!) if she knows how long Smith has been on the board. I'm just the "communications" person for the group and built/manage the website and Facebook group (with some help).

Timeshares are a great source of very easy money for the people who develop and manage them. In the coming weeks, we'll be posting information about why it's so difficult to divest oneself of a timeshare, why these large companies running the timeshares don't want a healthy resale market and more.

We have a lot of people looking at this thread but not commenting...
Most of them are very likely owners at timeshares that are managed in a very similar manner. I hope that our information will motivate some of them to dig deeper and learn how their own "Clubs" are managed.

It's really time that consumer laws were modified to protect timeshare owners. Once we've paid and the recision period is past, we are all truly at the mercy of the developer/manager and all we can do is hope that they treat us kindly because all the power is absolutely on their side.

PS Mr. Smith is also a member of the Finance Committee (you know, the people who look at the Club's Finances and make sure everything is done in the owners' interests...)

DRI makes first amendment to Club Intrawest Disclosure Statement

What is it? It's to peg the exchange rate to the US dollar for its majority of owners who happen to be Canadian.They stand to make a few hundred thousand extra in profit with this move...

Go to http://citheownersgroup.wix.com/home and then to "Opinions" --> Gwyneth's Page to see her take on this new amendment.

cd5 said:

What is it? It's to peg the exchange rate to the US dollar for its majority of owners who happen to be Canadian.They stand to make a few hundred thousand extra in profit with this move...

Go to http://citheownersgroup.wix.com/home and then to "Opinions" --> Gwyneth's Page to see her take on this new amendment.

Click to expand...

They've shown their colors. For some reason the adjective, "unscrupulous," comes to mind.

It is normal that American company works in USD. Me as Canadian, DRI charge my MF in USD. If they use the current exchange rate of the day at the time you pay your MF like United charge airfare in CAD then that would be perfect. But if they charge way more in CAD than the current exchange rate like RCI thieves do then DRI will be thieves too.

At this moment, the exchange rate between CAD and USD is 1.25 but RCI use an exchange rate of 1.38 for the exchange fee (219 USD vs 303 CAD), they use 1.55 for Getaways in Chicago (467.99 USD vs 726.74 CAD) but they use 1.25 for the annual RCI week subscription (99 USD vs 124 CAD). So, RCI do what ever they want with the exchange rate they charge to us, Canadian. I would like that RCI charge us in USD like II did. It will be cheaper.

NB: I don't have access to RCI Getaways cost in USD except when somebody here post it like the one for Chicago. I would not be surprise if the exchange rate fluctuate depending of the destination. I would not be surprise if RCI use an higher exchange rate for destination where Canadian have more chance to go.

Youppi, this is a change because in the past, US members' fees were the ones converted to Canadian dollars, getting a lower rate if the Canadian dollar was not worth as much. Note that the Club's budget was based on Canadian dollars for this year... and is being "revised" to US dollars mid-year. (Cdn annual dues will be pegged against the US dollar so when exchange rates change, so will the Cdn price per point) .

As Gwyneth states: "The amount of the annual Resort Fee shall be in the sole discretion of the Board." - the board, as we know, is controlled by DRI. The only restriction is that they cannot raise it more than 5% in year (they are starting this already - our dues just went from 8.09 CDN to 8.22 CD) and not more than 20% year over year. The declarant's power is our issue. How to solve it, not easy.

Gwyneth has a Facebook "conversation" with Club Intrawest Member Services

Gwyneth Edwards (our expert about the Club Instruments/bylaws) has been having a long, long conversation with Member Services on the Club Intrawest Facebook page. I am going to post only the last "snippet" of the conversation here but if you want to read the entire thread, it can be found here:
http://citheownersgroup.wix.com/home#!blank-4/uq141

Here is the last bit of the exchange:

Members: did you know that the declarant (DRI, used to be Intrawest) has 15 times the voting power over members?

There are about 4.4M points in our club.
- Members own about 4.15M, about 96.4%
- DRI owns about 250,000, about 5.6%

So why does DRI control? The declarant (was Intrawest, now DRI) has 15 times the voting power (per point) over members' voting power. Huh?
- DRI points are each worth one vote
- Members' points are each worth 1/15th of a vote

DRI therefore has 47% voting power right now (or thereabouts)
- 250,000 votes for DRI
- 276,666 votes for members (because we have to divide 4.15M by 15)

DRI CONTROLS: The declarant (DRI, was Intrawest) gets to have full power over the club until their voting rights fall below 20%. So what do they do? They ensure that their points bucket never drops below about 100,000 points. This is why they add properties and buy back points. It is a way to ensure that they have points to sell and that they do not lose their voting power. (They obviously prefer to simply take back points for members who forfeit - because they profit most this way - even though, funny enough, those points should actually remain with our club, for the club to sell and invest back into operations, but I digress).

ELECTIONS: For board elections (we have 5 directors, "we" being a big word): the declarant (DRI) gets to vote for 4 of those seats (the 5th, Ken Smith's seat, is independent, so they cannot vote for that seat). They can also put 3 of their own employees into those seats.

DRI CONTROLS: Now, member services will say that the club has always been fair and ran elections, but to actually beat out the declarant's (DRI, was Intrawest) preferred candidate, it is almost impossible - because of their HUGE voting power. (So if you ever ran, know that you never had a chance, unless it was against Ken Smith). This is why James Orr has been on the board for over 10 years. Intrawest voted him in over and over again, along with their 3 employees.

In the upcoming election, DRI is running two candidates for the two positions:
- Trevor Bruno (worked for Intrawest but now works for DRI)
- Ron O'Gorman (VP at DRI).

DRI'S VOTING WEIGHT CRUSHES: We all have two times our points in terms of voting power, because there are two candidates. But get this:
- DRI can vote once (for 250,000 votes) for Bruno
- DRI can vote once (for 250,000 votes) for O'Gorman

STAND TOGETHER: The rest of us, with our two times 276,666 votes can only beat out those two candidates if EVERYONE votes and EVERYONE votes for the same candidates (not the above).

START A REVOLUTION: A group of ~ 1000 members is suggesting that we vote for one candidate, who is fully committed to finding a way to communicate with all members, to have a two-way exchange, so that we can take over full ownership of this club. It makes no sense that our manager/declarant, who only owns about 6% of the club, has FULL CONTROL over everything we do, and extracts signficant revenue for what really is OUR business.

Please vote for Konrad Kawalec in the upcoming election. If we can get one person on the board, we can start moving ahead and engaging all members, including those who also want to be part of the board.

cd5 said:

Concerning our website and the information posted on it: Club Intrawest is NOT unique!
I just want to point out to everyone that most timeshares operate with the same model as Club Intrawest's... We're just not aware of it until something happens to make us question the status quo. In our case, a member who knows how to read the timeshare's contracts and governing documents and fully understand what they mean explained it all in simple language everyone can understand.

The Quick Facts documents on our new website simply reflect the standard bylaws/instruments of most timeshares except the rare ones that were able to obtain enough member votes to replace the developer/manager's Board of Director majority with a true member board. Marriott, Hilton, Wyndham, DRI all operate under a similar model, members/owners are simply unaware of it.

Developers/managers generally retain control of the timeshare even long after the units/points are by a large majority sold. In our case, the trust is 94% owned by members but only 1 out of 5 BoD members is "independent" and because the developer vote equals 1 vote per point owned and members' votes equal 1/15 per point owned, the developer manager retains over 40% of the voting power making it very, very difficult for the members/owners to overthrow the status quo and change the composition of the board, control maintenance fee increases, review financial statements (the board does this "for" the members) and other key elements of the administration of the club.

This means the developer/manager could make and change all the rules in their own interest such as increasing fees, adding/removing properties from the trust etc. without members/owners being able to do much until most of them are mobilized. Which is a colossal task...

Our "Cheat Sheet" is open to view by anyone who goes to our site and is the topic of our second blog post:

http://citheownersgroup.wix.com/home

It can be found in the "Files/Documents" tab.

Click to expand...

Regarding Intrawest Resort Club and the Club's governing documents, if I recall correctly, Club Intrawest was conceptualized by and predicated on the "Disney Vacation Club" model, with architects of Disney Vacation Club serving as the primary consultants on the "Club Intrawest Project (not sure if the did that as Disney employees, or as independent consultants). I don't remember the distinctions between the hierarchy of Club Intrawest and Disney Vacation Club, but I sure don't remember hearing about the paucity of "member advocacy" at Disney Vacation Club. Come to think of it, unfortunate it is that Disney Vacation Club didn't purchase Club Intrawest.

cd5 said:

I will ask Gwyneth Edwards (she is responsible for those fantastic documents!) if she knows how long Smith has been on the board. I'm just the "communications" person for the group and built/manage the website and Facebook group (with some help).

Timeshares are a great source of very easy money for the people who develop and manage them. In the coming weeks, we'll be posting information about why it's so difficult to divest oneself of a timeshare, why these large companies running the timeshares don't want a healthy resale market and more.

We have a lot of people looking at this thread but not commenting...
Most of them are very likely owners at timeshares that are managed in a very similar manner. I hope that our information will motivate some of them to dig deeper and learn how their own "Clubs" are managed.

It's really time that consumer laws were modified to protect timeshare owners. Once we've paid and the recision period is past, we are all truly at the mercy of the developer/manager and all we can do is hope that they treat us kindly because all the power is absolutely on their side.

PS Mr. Smith is also a member of the Finance Committee (you know, the people who look at the Club's Finances and make sure everything is done in the owners' interests...)

Click to expand...

Do I remember reading correctly that the company of which Mr. Smith is a partner, Trainer Smith and Company, certified public accounting firm, of Seattle, WA, audits the finances for Club Intrawest?

Yes, you did! Interesting, no? Seems like a conflict of interest there...

Concerning DVC: just remember, DVC has a similar model and though they may be more "benevolent", if "needs, must" and profits suffer they could become less "benevolent". It would be legal - it's in their governing documents - and in those of most other timeshare developers. That is why there should be more government oversight of their business model: see this article on The Motley Fool http://goo.gl/eAez2o

Here's some comments from Gwyneth again, but this time about the exchange rate/budget discussion (with Member Services on Facebook but applicable to the comments above):

A quick look at the club's operating budget (including the DRI management fee) shows that Canadian operations are 60% of the club's overall budget. And there are about 55% of members that are Canadian. So since the budget is in Canadian dollars and the dues are in Canadian dollars, then that portion of the budget is actually not impacted by exchange rate fluctuations at all. Because the money is being charged and spent within the walls of Canada.

So... when you say that changing the resort fee per point mid-year is typical of all companies, you are leaving out the business model. In our case (the club), we run on membership dues - we pay DRI to manage the club and we collect dues from members. So the collection of dues in Cdn dollars to pay operations in Canada, as you can see, is almost a perfect match. So what about the US situation? Well, if most of the remaining operations are in the US and most of the remaining members are in the US... same thing. There is no exchange rate impact. Your reference to it being "typical" is for multinational organizations who move product and services across borders, both within the firm and outside of the firm. And even then, they have departments who manage exchange rate risk. But the club is not a multinational organization. The club is geographically based, where services and dues (“revenue”) don’t move across borders. Members pay*for "services" in country and (regardless of where they actually travel to) that money stays in country.

So then why would DRI want to increase resort fees when the Cdn dollar reduces in value to the US dollar? For a few reasons:
1 – DRI is moving operations to Vegas from Canada. So now operations will be in US dollars, not Canadian dollars. DRI is now going to suffer because of the low Cdn dollar. So what do they do? Raise dues.
2 – DRI is a US-based public firm that simply manages properties and sells points (and finances them). Nothing more. So any possible way to increase revenue and profits is being pursued, especially now that investors are questioning DRI's entire business model.

FYI, 20% to 25% of Canadian public companies and 5% of American public companies have dual-class structure of shares. Companies in Canada like Bombardier, Power Corp, Québécor, Couche-Tard, ... are controlled by their founders with a minority of multi-voting shares.

In 2010, Magna International was controlled by his founder Frank Stronach with 0.6% of shares (66% of voting shares). This is way more than your 15 to 1 ratio. To eliminate the company’s dual-class structure, investors paid $300 million and 9 million common shares to a trust controlled by Magna founder Frank Stronach. So, if you offer a tons of million to DRI, may be they will eliminate their multi-voting share.

Don't forget that developers like CI/Marriott's,... build resorts and sell weeks/points to recover their money. But a company like DRI, buy others companies like your Club with an almost sold out inventory. So, how do you think they will recover their money ? Probably by increasing your MF.

Exactly. It's already started and they will continue to do it on the flimsiest of excuses. We're just not going to give up and except it however....