Convoluted ownership mess

vacationhopeful said:

Robert, my certified letter was to the co-owner from the OP to establish his position in writing clearly with a legal date reference.

I could see the Sales team looking up his ownership (the OP's partner) which would have included the "co-owner ship" deed as a Marriott owner AND just selling the SHIT out of the Elite level ownership. After the rescind period passed and the newly minted DC point owner still DID NOT have "ELITE" on his ownership or the Elite benefits, THEN his sales consultant told him to get the co-owner to do a QUIT CLAIM deed and his account would be upgraded to "ELITE". EZ PEESZE ... and that is a TS sales person spinning a web.

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We're saying the same thing.

I had thought better of Marriott, but at least some of its sales force lives down to TS salespeople's reputation.

The OP did indicate that this is their best friend, not a simple business partner if you ask me. Though they did enter in to a business agreement when they opted to buy the week from Marriott. I don't think an formal written letter sent certified mail is justified here. These are best friends. Surely they can work something out.

Though I don't see an easy way out of this and remain best friends. It is possible, but a sticky situation. The only way I really see this working out is if the OPs friend is still in the rescission period. If so, have the friend rescind immediately. Then work out the ownership situation of the legacy week. Once that is squared away, then the friend can go back and buy the points if they still want them.

If outside of the rescission period, here is how things will likely shake down.

Situation 1 - The friends thinks the OP should just quit claim the entire week over to the friend and they are now both Premier owners in their respective years. This doesn't impact the OP much if they don't use points, but helps the friend some in those years the points are theirs. This is a viable solution, but the OP would need to have a written contract with their friend. Though if anyone breaches that, the only solution is to sue the other partner. No longer friends. The OP also loses official control and the friend can now sell the week and walk away with all the proceeds leaving the OP to sue. No longer friends.

Situation 2 - The OP decides that they don't want to deed their rights to the friend. The friend is mad because they sunk $40,000 for 3,500 trust points that don't have the Premier moniker. No longer friends.

Situation 3 - The OP decides to sell out their interest in the week. The friend is mad because the cost is too high and doesn't think that is necessary because they can go along with option 1 just fine and dandy. The OP doesn't like the drawbacks of option 1, so there is no transfer of ownership, no longer friends.

Situation 4 - They decide to sell the week to a third party. This isn't a good option since the enrolled legacy week is lost and they can't get another one to replace it for anything close to the going market price for a MKO MV week. The friend doesn't have Premier status. No longer friends.

I hope they are real good friends, but they say that blood is thicker than water. Even if this were a family relationship, it would result in bad blood (pun intended) in the end. The best way to solve this is to rescind if it is still an option. If not, then Situation 1 is perhaps the best option if they can come to an amicable and written agreement.

Though I would still be upset if my best friend did this to me. They are a 50/50 partner in the business agreement but the friend made a decision without 51% majority. Not cool.

dioxide45 said:

Sure this is an option, IF the OP also wants to spend $20,000 on half of the 3,500 DC points. From reading the original post, I don't think that was in their plan. Should the OP really have to pay the price for their friends lack of foresight.

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So, 3500 DC points is $40,000. Didn't imagine it was that expensive.

Ron98GT said:

So, 3500 DC points is $40,000. Didn't imagine it was that expensive.

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The last price per piont that I saw was $11 and change. So that works out to at least $38,500. I rounded up for good measure. Though probably pretty close to $40K with the closing costs included.

dioxide45 said:

I think the legacy week plus the new 3500 trust points will get him to Premier status. So that is why the legacy week need to be entirely in his name. Since the legacy week and trust points are in different names, they are separate accounts.

You can't split an annual week in to an EOY week by deeding only the even or odd years. MVCI doesn't allow that. Even if it did, if he got an EOY week, it would only be worth about 2000 points toward Premier status, now making him short of that desired status.

This is a tricky situation. I think I agree with the others, have your friend buy you out. One problem with that is that you bought developer and current market is so much cheaper. Another problem is that I value an enrolled week so much higher than any unenrolled week that you would replace it with if you go out and try to replace your week.

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Yea. not selling my half as I use the you know what out of that asset. He is just now getting in to using time share.

Thanks for all of the advice. It certainly sounds like my titles nailed it with the term convoluted.

GregT said:

Mark,

I

Someone will have to sign a Quit Claim to someone else, depending on who owns the original deed. If Marriott drafts legal paperwork allowing the split of the Annual into the EOY and each of you end up with an enrolled EOY, then I would sign the Quit Claim to the other EOY and be grateful that it was cleanly resolved and you get to keep your enrolled EOY.


Best,

Greg

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Thats the thing. Both of our names are on the deed. I am no legal expert. When we book a week both our names are automatically allowed to check in. We plan on a conference call to Marriott to begin to work on this.

That said. I am not interest in losing any ownerwhip rights that I already have.

I think my friend was told or believes that marriott will simply convert our ownership in to two seperate every other week assets. From what I am reading here that does not sound like it can happen.

Does anyone have a suggestion on who I should call at Marriott to discuss my options?

Also. Not interested in paying for any points. Not interested in selling my developer bought asset and whatever benefits (ability to convert to points or marriott reward, or booking pref at home resort such as staying above floor 7) that I have. So selling my half and then buying resale. Nah.. NOT unless he gives me the original purchase price for my half of a mountain view and I then can in turn buy an annual ocean view.

mkahanek said:

Thats the thing. Both of our names are on the deed. I am no legal expert. When we book a week both our names are automatically allowed to check in. We plan on a conference call to Marriott to begin to work on this.

That said. I am not interest in losing any ownerwhip rights that I already have.

I think my friend was told or believes that marriott will simply convert our ownership in to two seperate every other week assets. From what I am reading here that does not sound like it can happen.

Does anyone have a suggestion on who I should call at Marriott to discuss my options?

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I believe this has a decent chance of working. Marriott will need to cooperate but I think you have the right data set to facilitate this.

I would call Lisa Gordon in Customer Advocacy at 407 238 3875. I've talked to her many times and she was ultimately able to get the change I needed to my MOC float (converting it from a fixed week). She's a very nice lady and wants to help owners, but be prepared to continue to push your case if she sounds skeptical about any precedent.

Your fact pattern is a good one and I believe you have a good chance -- definitely worth pursuing. I'm very happy to hear that both of your names are on the deed, and I think what is key is how they have handled similar situations during a divorce. Hopefully, there is precedent from divorces where EOY children are created from an Annual parent. It is a reasonable accomodation for Marriott to make, if requested by the divorcing parties, and over the years, it is possible that they have a well established path for this.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes. I suggest you don't tell Lisa I gave you her name, I don't know how much she likes me .

Best,

Greg

Situation 5 - OP asks his friend to add his name to the new purchase AFTER he pays off the "loan" (if there is a loan). Then both owners would be ELITE. Usage would be based on either the points owned. Friend PAYS for this cost - after all, OP did pay the $595 to convert to points originally.

Here is the "BUT": both parties get a written partnership agreement done as to who uses WHAT and WHEN, who pays what, and dissolving the partnership with what cost factor.

vacationhopeful said:

Situation 5 - OP asks his friend to add his name to the new purchase AFTER he pays off the "loan" (if there is a loan). Then both owners would be ELITE. Usage would be based on either the points owned. Friend PAYS for this cost - after all, OP did pay the $595 to convert to points originally.

Here is the "BUT": both parties get a written partnership agreement done as to who uses WHAT and WHEN, who pays what, and dissolving the partnership with what cost factor.

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This is interesting. Basically it could still be used efficiently.

In this scenario I would still agree to an EOY type use instead of what we were doing. I get the entire villa on even years. I can then lock off and look for good flexchange when I want to. Or if I want a nice stay at Ko Olina simply book. I will discuss this option.

But, I think trying to figure out the maint fee would be tough. Right now we received two separate invoices. If we did this combined thing we would have to figure out how maint fee works.

mkahanek said:

This is interesting. Basically it could still be used efficiently.

In this scenario I would still agree to an EOY type use instead of what we were doing. I get the entire villa on even years. I can then lock off and look for good flexchange when I want to. Or if I want a nice stay at Ko Olina simply book. I will discuss this option.

But, I think trying to figure out the maint fee would be tough. Right now we received two separate invoices. If we did this combined thing we would have to figure out how maint fee works.

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Do DC points get their own MF?

mkahanek said:

Right now we received two separate invoices.

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You get two bills for half the fee each? This is surprising to me. I thought co-owned properties had one bill in both names.

Saintsfanfl said:

You get two bills for half the fee each? This is surprising to me. I thought co-owned properties had one bill in both names.

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That's because you only buy resale.

They'll probably jump through hoops if you offered to buy retail. :hysterical:

All kidding aside, I'm also surprised that there is a mechanism to split invoices but maybe this is something not uncommon on such a big purchase. I can see the salesperson saying that the price is not so bad if you split it in half.

-ryan

mkahanek said:

This is interesting. Basically it could still be used efficiently.

In this scenario I would still agree to an EOY type use instead of what we were doing. I get the entire villa on even years. I can then lock off and look for good flexchange when I want to. Or if I want a nice stay at Ko Olina simply book. I will discuss this option.

But, I think trying to figure out the maint fee would be tough. Right now we received two separate invoices. If we did this combined thing we would have to figure out how maint fee works.

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I assume you mean one bill for the week and a second bill to your friend for his DC trust points? There would continue to be separate bills for the week and the points. Multiple week owners get a separate bill for each week.

BocaBoy said:

I assume you mean one bill for the week and a second bill to your friend for his DC trust points? There would continue to be separate bills for the week and the points. Multiple week owners get a separate bill for each week.

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No. Prior to his D&C purchase we each got a bill for $900 and change. He has an mvci account and so do I. Our inventory in each of our accounts showed 2 EOY weeks.
It is a very odd setup.

mkahanek said:

No. Prior to his D&C purchase we each got a bill for $900 and change. He has an mvci account and so do I. Our inventory in each of our accounts showed 2 EOY weeks.
It is a very odd setup.

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Maybe Marriott sold you 2 EOY weeks? That would make it easy to separate into 2 ownerships.

Do you have a copy of your deed?

If he had 2 deeds, what would have been the 1st and only DC conversion charge? OP mentioned he had paid the $595 fee.

LAX Mom said:

Maybe Marriott sold you 2 EOY weeks? That would make it easy to separate into 2 ownerships.

Do you have a copy of your deed?

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Actually that may be it. I think it is two EOY weeks with both our names on it. When I log in to MVCI there are two deed id:'s One has even years as ineligible and one has the odd years ineligible.

So maybe this "divorce" won't be too complicated. Basically would just need to get his name off of the even year deed and mine off the odd.

Wow. I see some EOY's on ebay go for cheap. Like $2500? Does that sound right for an EOY at Ko Olina? Is Marriott snapping something that low up on ROFR?

mkahanek said:

Wow. I see some EOY's on ebay go for cheap. Like $2500? Does that sound right for an EOY at Ko Olina? Is Marriott snapping something that low up on ROFR?

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$2500 for an island view EOY is not unusual. Marriott has a higher threshold for exercising ROFR on EOY weeks for some reason. Not specifically at MKO, we have seen annual weeks get snapped up and EOY weeks pass even though they are less than half of the annual price.

Getting back to your question, I think $2500 is low but still market price for an EOY week at MKO. Frankly, it is one of the easier Marriott HI properties to trade into through II.

-ryan

mkahanek said:

Actually that may be it. I think it is two EOY weeks with both our names on it. When I log in to MVCI there are two deed id:'s One has even years as ineligible and one has the odd years ineligible.

So maybe this "divorce" won't be too complicated. Basically would just need to get his name off of the even year deed and mine off the odd.

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This is easy to verify.

You should have received the recorded deeds when you purchased. If you no longer have it, you can verify on the Hawaii county's recorder site. The search is free, but you will need to pay to get a copy of the actual deed.

If this is the case, I would just make sure that you get in writing that both weeks will stay enrolled (well, specifically the one you are receiving) if one party is deeded off each week. Since you only paid one enrollment fee, I'm not sure whether they would do this or not. Then, it would be as simple as hiring a transfer company to do the transfer and notify Marriott of the change.

Good luck.

-ryan

sjsharkie said:

Getting back to your question, I think $2500 is low but still market price for an EOY week at MKO. Frankly, it is one of the easier Marriott HI properties to trade into through II.
-ryan

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Not as easy as it used to be. Why? I think it is because owners at Ko Olina who want to trade tend to use the DC points option rather than II. That is what we do because the points we get are quite high. It is very easy to get DC reservations at Ko Olina, but II is more iffy. I have a friend (not in DC) who owns odd years there and was unable to trade his studio back to KO through II in the even year for January/February, even with his request made a year ahead. And he was willing to take a studio. They ended up trading to a 1BR at KBC instead.

mkahanek said:

Actually that may be it. I think it is two EOY weeks with both our names on it. When I log in to MVCI there are two deed id:'s One has even years as ineligible and one has the odd years ineligible.

So maybe this "divorce" won't be too complicated. Basically would just need to get his name off of the even year deed and mine off the odd.

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I think that is correct. The only "problem" is that your friend will then not have enough points to be Premier because an EOY gets half the points each year for purposes of elite status qualification. (Usage points are the full amount every other year.) But that is not really your concern.

mkahanek said:

Actually that may be it. I think it is two EOY weeks with both our names on it. When I log in to MVCI there are two deed id:'s One has even years as ineligible and one has the odd years ineligible.

So maybe this "divorce" won't be too complicated. Basically would just need to get his name off of the even year deed and mine off the odd.

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If that is the case, I think it will be straightforward. Each of you would sign a Quit Claim to release your claim on each other's EOY week and you would each end up with sole ownership of an EOY.

Let us know if that becomes the case -- good luck!

Greg

BocaBoy said:

Not as easy as it used to be. Why? I think it is because owners at Ko Olina who want to trade tend to use the DC points option rather than II. That is what we do because the points we get are quite high. It is very easy to get DC reservations at Ko Olina, but II is more iffy. I have a friend (not in DC) who owns odd years there and was unable to trade his studio back to KO through II in the even year for January/February, even with his request made a year ahead. And he was willing to take a studio. They ended up trading to a 1BR at KBC instead.

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I agree not as it used to be, but of the HI properties, the only one easier IMHO is KBC because of the limited kitchen/hotel conversion issue and the two other Marriott properties on Kauai.

I'd say it is 2nd easiest of the 5 Marriott HI properties (6 if you consider MOC as the 2 separate phases).

-ryan

BocaBoy said:

I think that is correct. The only "problem" is that your friend will then not have enough points to be Premier because an EOY gets half the points each year for purposes of elite status qualification. (Usage points are the full amount every other year.) But that is not really your concern.

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I mentioned that to him and he is already aware. Frankly he could care less about status. He is Alastair minute traveler. So booking ahead and using the 13 month thing isn't of any value to him. Not sure what other Perks there are, but can honestly say, knowing him as I do, he most likely would not be interested in any of them. He and the wife went to the presentation. She is the one that wanted to buy and considering his pockets are very well lined he just said sure so he could get back out on the beach.