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RCI Weeks to offer value transparency

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AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
You Are Correct, Sir.

I do not deny rci rents some member deposited units, its the scale some of the RCI Haters on here that would have you believe that I find insulting to anyone who has more then 2 active brain cells.
You typed a mouthful there.

The thing is, though, that some of the haters out there are distinguished & otherwise knowledgeable TUG-BBS participants with such strong & deep-seated feelings on the subject that simply to mention what it says in the fine print of RCI's terms & conditions for timeshare deposits is to get yourself lumped willy-nilly into the RCI Can Do No Wrong crowd.

As for us, we're basically OK with RCI, flaws & all, otherwise we wouldn't keep using it -- even though we'd like RCI better if its fees & dues were lower & if fewer of its el primo deposits got shunted off to the rental market.

One RCI feature we specially like is Raiding The Weeks Inventory via RCI Points, particularly Instant Exchange for no more than 9,000 points + exchange fee. Never mind that the Instant Exchange offerings are mostly the off-season dogs & cats. And pay no attention to the fact that points raids made using points from PFD aren't so much actual Weeks Inventory Raids as they are straight-weeks reservations that happened to take a procedural detour into & then back out of the points system. Some raid.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

rickandcindy23

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I just re-read my post, there seems to be lots of commas, periods etc in the post, maybe you were up late last night and had to many beers and were not firing on all brain cells this morning.....:) Yes, well I don't drink. My brain cells are working just fine, too.


No this is NOT what I am saying, what I am saying is **** rent if you choose, but don't complain there are no deposits, when you look at the volume of rentals out there by members it far out weighs anything rci has done and had a far greater impact to the deposit pool then anything rci is doing.....



I won't comment to this its to childish, and naive Naive, maybe, and I did say that I didn't think RCI should be regulated by laws in a later post.


I have posted on this before, maybe you didn't read the post, Maybe not, because I haven't read all of your posts. your analysis is inaccurate, I can see where someone with a locked opinion (definitely describes me) would not want to see the reality. Simply comparing EV's and exchanges does NOT give a clear picture of where the ev's came from. This is because on the website ALL ev's are grouped together as rentals when in fact they come from two different groupings You can only go by what you see and you assume (making and ass of you and me) this is what it is......I challenge you to open your mind and test your theory.....

Call the call center No thanks. I don't call when I don't have to call, because frankly I find the RCI guides to be a mixed bag of knowledgeable/ nice, and some who are completely the opposite of those two things.

tell the agent you want to look at extra vacations to a generally high demand area where there is usually very little availability (Florida keys, Florida gulf coast, Hawaii where ever, for what ever date, doesn't have to be a holiday week, what ever floats your boat

As the agent lists what is available ask her/him is it a "H" tagged week or an "R" tagged week, I will bet almost all of them will be H tagged weeks, which means they come to rci from the resorts, via an owner request to rent there unit, (and some other 3rd parties) via the holiday rental network and are once again MEMBERS putting there units in for rental or developers putting in units NOT rci using members deposits.If its an R week then it likely came from a member deposit, a member using there deposit for something else (like a cruise) etc. (I said resorts rent weeks through RCI earlier in another post on this thead.)
I do not deny rci rents some member deposited units, its the scale some of the RCI Haters on here that would have you believe that I find insulting to anyone who has more then 2 active brain cells..... (I think the TUG posters here who have experienced RCI service and found it both lacking and insulting have more than two brain cells.)
Dave

I am here to post what I know and my experiences with RCI and II. I also share my opinions about my own resorts and so much more, but it is all my opinions. I am not here to offend anyone and don't think many people would peg me as stupid. Apparently that is your opinion of me, and anyone else who doesn't love RCI. I love the exchanging game and continue to play, but it's definitely 180 degrees different from 25 years ago with RCI. RCI has become the shadow of its former self. I loved old RCI and miss it.

Roger, you know I respect your opinions.
 
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Carolinian

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Sounds like I need to get my exchanges lined up for next year very soon. I need to take advantage of the opportunities while I can. I am so disappointed at how things are changing again. I just get used to things one way, adjust to it, and then they go and change things again. :(

For some time, I have been only giving RCI one week at a time. When this new scheme first reared its ugly head, I started looking for an exchange so I would have nothing at risk when it hit. Fortunately, I found a decent one.
 

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Well, since he showed up here, Dave has been a very consistent and tenacious defender of all things RCI. He alludes to a ''friend'' who works in the main RCI headquarters as the source of his inside ''knowledge'' of many things at RCI.

Personally, I much prefered our old Tugger friend Bootleg, who we know for a fact was inside RCI, and while he defended such things there as he felt comfortble in defending in RCI's policies, also confirmed what we all suspected on their rentals of exchange deposits to the generally public. Bootleg's ultimare loyalty was to timesharing itself and I valued his insights for that.

I also valued Anon over at TimeshareTalk, another bona fide RCI insider who revealed a lot of the scams going on with our exchange deposits.



I don't find it that difficult to understand what Dave is saying.

While admitting that RCI does do rentals, he is also saying that their is a lot of scapegoating going on.

It is hard to find a thread on TUG where, as soon as someone mentions that they are having difficulty getting a trade, someone chimes in "RCI must have rented what you are looking for." Is that really the only thing that is going on? No one lacks trading power? Summer beach weeks haven't always been hard to get? And ... as Dave mentions, with the advent of the Internet, it has become very easy for people to rent their own units. Are we saying that when growing numbers of people decide that they can easily rent via the Internet, this has no impact on availability? (Yes, one poster is going to say that the Internet has had no impact on timesharing. I don't buy that for a moment.)

**********************

I might add another factor that has impacted trading patterns. Online trading. At first, when only a small number of people used it and saw what was sitting untaken, it was a real bonanza. On the other hand, when online trading began to really take hold, and lots of people begin to shop around, people begin to notice that the better units were getting harder and harder to get. More and more people were searching around for the best trade they could get as opposed to just asking RCI for a possible trade at some one location. Guess what happens when lots of people start shopping and see that they can trade for something they did not imagine was available? The really good trades disappear faster and faster.

As an aside, when I first mentioned this, I was told - in a very condenscening fashion, I might add - that the growing popularity of online trading had no impact on the availability of good units - it was because Points owners were raiding the Weeks inventory. At that time, about one-half of one percent of RCI owners had Points units, but online trading was approaching ten percent - a milestone where the ordinary Joe was beginning to participate in shopping around. But - as Dave mentioned - people don't want to look in the mirror and admit that the practices that they themselves participate in might be having some sort of overall negative impact. Better to scapegoat. So there were mobs (I think that is the appropriate word) of TUGGERs who were willing to accept that the good trades were disappearing from the online board because Points (one half on one percent) was raiding Weeks. I am sorry. I believed and still believe that when just a few people were knowledgeable enough to shop around for the best unit available via online trading, they, not surprisingly, found good units sitting there. When the number of shoppers increased, the good units got taken faster. Rather than look in the mirror, find a scapegoat.
 

Carolinian

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Early to mid November from my friend at rci however nothing is carved in stone........

Great! Just in time to cause massive blowback to HOA's as in coincides with m/f bills going out. They are setting up a tsunami of bailouts for HOA's. Is that part of the grand RCI agenda? Did you ''friend'' in the main RCI headquarters that you allude to tell you why they came up with this timing? What is their broader agenda? Or are they just stupid?
 

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One RCI feature we specially like is Raiding The Weeks Inventory via RCI Points, particularly Instant Exchange for no more than 9,000 points + exchange fee. Never mind that the Instant Exchange offerings are mostly the off-season dogs & cats. And pay no attention to the fact that points raids made using points from PFD aren't so much actual Weeks Inventory Raids as they are straight-weeks reservations that happened to take a procedural detour into & then back out of the points system. Some raid.
That's one of the inequities of the pair of systems that might be fixed by this change.

If, as RCI is suggesting, trading power will stay the same as it is now, that suggests that at 45 days, all weeks diminish to the same trade power, equivalent to those 9,000 points (though it seems some drop as low as 7,500 points). Perhaps we will ALL be able to "raid" the weeks side for last minute deposits. That moderate blue week worth 20,000 points that was turned over to the HOA becomes more valuable to someone else who can travel last-minute; and not just to someone who could use it to PFD, but to anyone with a weeks account, and it doesn't have to be at a resort not affiliated with points.

In fact, if the system will stay roughly the same, those who do daily searches might be able to get an even better idea of how the system works, as they will see the dynamic changes to the cost of certain weeks that are bulk banked.

No matter how RCI calculates the point values, there are a few things we can be pretty sure of, and they might change the behavior of RCI members to counteract what happened when exchanges started being available online:

1 - Right now, an exchanger sees a 1BR, 2BR and 3BR unit available where they want to travel. Under the weeks system, they all cost the same, so why not take the 3BR. Unless there is some extra charge (mandatory utility charge, or something similar), I don't know many who would take the 1BR unit, even if it was big enough for their family of 4, and most would take the 3BR. Under this new system, perhaps that family will choose the 1BR if it means points left for another vacation.

2 - Right now, owners of many lockoff units deposit them as 2 units, locking them in as 2 smaller units. They would rather have 2 exchanges, than only one, when they don't think they can get full value out of that one exchange. But if they can deposit as a single unit, and still get 2 exchanges out of it (and maybe one would be something better than they get with a single side of the lockoff), perhaps more full units will be deposited.

3 - those last minute discounts, and bulk banking (maybe this will provide the incentive for owners to get resorts to stop doing it, as it may be an explanation for why "generic" deposits from certain resorts don't trade well). I can see this from two different vantages as someone wanting to trade in. My Panama City Beach weeks can see almost anything, so I presume it will have enough value to trade into almost anything. RCI says the dynamic part is not the value of my week once it is deposited, but of other weeks as they are deposited, hence the low cost of those bulk weeks. The question is, do I take the July DVC unit I can see for XXX,000 points, or do I wait until there is a bulk banking, and get an August DVC unit for half as many points? (And risk not noticing the bulk bank, and missing the opportunity for either).

I agree there will be changes, and some may want no part of them. But this has the potential for some positive changes as well.

Carolinian - you are the one who said the value has diminished for Blue week owners, and the resorts need to do something to provide some value to those owners (or to potential new owners of those weeks). I think played right, this could provide that value. Maybe not much for the true dog weeks (9000 points, with high maintenance fees), but this could potentially double the value of the weeks worth the equivalent of 18,000 points, and I bet they are many of those.
 

MichaelColey

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It should be against the law for RCI to rent what WE own, because they are supposed to be an exchange company.
I have to disagree. If we deposit a week and get to exchange for another week, they'll fulfilled their obligations. They've allowed us to exchange. I've only made at this for a few months, but I've been very happy with my exchanges. As long as I continue to be able to get exchanges that I like better than the weeks I deposit, I'll continue to use them. If that stops, I have lots of other choices (RCI Points, II, and actually using my weeks). I plan on trying the other choices to maximize my options, but so far RCI Weeks has been very good to me. I've exchanged 1BR and 2BR Orlando and Branson weeks for 2BR Wyndham Bonnet Creek (twice), 2BR DVC, a 2BR in Kauai and a 3BR at Summer Bay. I couldn't rent any of those for my MF$ + Exchange Fee.
 

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I have to disagree. If we deposit a week and get to exchange for another week, they'll fulfilled their obligations. They've allowed us to exchange. I've only made at this for a few months, but I've been very happy with my exchanges. As long as I continue to be able to get exchanges that I like better than the weeks I deposit, I'll continue to use them. If that stops, I have lots of other choices (RCI Points, II, and actually using my weeks). I plan on trying the other choices to maximize my options, but so far RCI Weeks has been very good to me. I've exchanged 1BR and 2BR Orlando and Branson weeks for 2BR Wyndham Bonnet Creek (twice), 2BR DVC, a 2BR in Kauai and a 3BR at Summer Bay. I couldn't rent any of those for my MF$ + Exchange Fee.

But then again, you were not around when RCI ran things fairly and honestly, before Cendant (now Wyndham) took over. When one compares all the things like warm season UK that used to be readily availible before RCI started looting the system to rent to the general public that are now scarce as hens teeth, he can really see the downgrade that RCI has inflicted upon its members. You are not in a position to be able to compare the old honest RCI with the new bandit RCI.
 

Carolinian

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Carolinian - you are the one who said the value has diminished for Blue week owners, and the resorts need to do something to provide some value to those owners (or to potential new owners of those weeks). I think played right, this could provide that value. Maybe not much for the true dog weeks (9000 points, with high maintenance fees), but this could potentially double the value of the weeks worth the equivalent of 18,000 points, and I bet they are many of those.

The problem is that it is unlikely that all dog weeks are treated the same. Those that are true dog weeks because they are from an overbuilt area and the exchange system is flooded with many more weeks than it has demand for there are not likely to feel the same pain, as RCI will pander to the developers and with a published system not give them their true value. One can expect this based on RCI's history of overpointing such areas in RCI Points and of giving such areas a phony ''red all year'' designation when their own availibility tables published in the European version of their directory clearly show that on supply/demand curves some of those weeks really ought to be blue and white. This will mean that owners of dog weeks will be even more limited in their exchange options than they are now, and that is going to lead to a tsunami of bailouts.

As to doubling or tripling m/f's to exchange for one week, that is almost laughable for anyone to think that such is a realistic option. That means doubling or tripling m/f's. It is cheaper just to rent from RCI than to do that. RCI is building a system to make such weeks totally unattractive for exchanging.

The bailout may be so large that in one fell stroke, RCI may shrink itself to being smaller than II. They are already on track for that to happen in a few years as RCI has been steadily losing market share while II has been steadily gaining, but this may really speed it up.

And if they think they have a pile of excess inventory from the overbuilt areas now, just wait. When they make it so other dog weeks - those with similar supply / demand characteristics - cannot trade in without doubling up, then that pile is only going to get bigger.

Value in an exchange system should only be based on two factors - 1) supply and 2) demand. Anyting else is just a driver of one of those two factors and should not be rated seperately. If it is, then that is only putting a thumb on the scales to favor or disfavor particular resorts or types of resorts.
 

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I guess another question is how significantly will the timing of the deposit affect the credit value. Unclear.

Also, the page describes trading power will be provided after you deposit, not before. So at least the way I read it, it doesn't sound like you will be able to find out the credit value with any certainty before you deposit.
 

krj9999

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I just searched Hawaii in II and came up with 3 resorts (with a total of 5 weeks) using my *wood week.

In looking at Getaways, there are 23 resorts available including 4 weeks at Sands of Kahana that are not available for exchange (as I don't see any Sands of Kahana weeks for exchange).

Is there really that much difference between RCI and II? Can you really claim those extra weeks are "exchange" weeks that should be available for trade?

When I search Hawaii with my best traders, most days there are < 25 resorts available, < 500 weeks. When I search Extra Vacations and Exchange together, there are usually 36 resorts and 1,000's of weeks.

RCI is saying to me: "Nanny, nanny, boo, boo, we have weeks you cannot have."
 

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Great! Just in time to cause massive blowback to HOA's as in coincides with m/f bills going out. They are setting up a tsunami of bailouts for HOA's. Is that part of the grand RCI agenda? Did you ''friend'' in the main RCI headquarters that you allude to tell you why they came up with this timing? What is their broader agenda? Or are they just stupid?

I don't think my friend would know the answer to that, she is just a front line agent not a big wig. I can tell you today is NOT the change over its a fix up day or whatever. the BIG change will come in November 12/13/14 or maybe 19/20/21, you will know because rci with be completely shut down for 3 days......web site, call centers everything, so don't plan on doing anything around that time......

Dave
 

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I guess another question is how significantly will the timing of the deposit affect the credit value. Unclear.

Also, the page describes trading power will be provided after you deposit, not before. So at least the way I read it, it doesn't sound like you will be able to find out the credit value with any certainty before you deposit.

I had an email chart of value loss based on when you deposit that I can't seem to locate however from memory (numbers may be off a little, memory deteriots with age) if you deposit 9 months or more out you get 100 % of trading value calulated based on supply and demand (mostly) unit size, season and vep.

depositing more then 9 months out doesn't give you more trading value
you just get 100% of the value calculated by the formula above

what you loose banking less then 9 months is a percentage of what you would have gotten had you banked 9 months or more out.

from 9 months to 8 90%
from 8 months to 6 80%
from 6 months to 4 60%
from 4 months to 2 50%
from 2 months to 14 days 45 %
from 14 days down, if they take it 30 %

As I said these numbers may NOT be 100% accurate, I am going by memory but the bottom line is the longer you wait the more you waste......

It is also very important to realize that if you own at a resort that bulk deposit the same time every year to get your deposits in BEFORE they do there bulk deposits because they will boost the supply curve and give your deposit less value, if they let you deposit yourself.......

It also makes sense, that when most people get there m/f in nov/dec and pay them dec/jan and then deposit which happens every year so to do your best on trading value to deposit before the masses if you can......either because your resort will allow you to deposit before you pay your m/f or pay your m/f early to deposit early........

NOTE: supply and demand is based on historical data NOT live data so if 100 people deposit into resort x today and have never done so before and you deposit tomorrow if should have no or very little effect on your trading value, because its a one time event and although it would boost supply for today it would not be part of historical data. If they started depositing this way every year then it would eventually affect your trading value in a negative way.

Its the same with with special events, motorcycle rally's, car races, golf events etc if they happen the same time every year they creep into historical data and affect trading value if they move around they never get into historical data and so do not affect trading value

I have been told there will be a calculator on the web site that will allow you to see your trading value that you will get if you deposit today before you deposit. I don't know if I asked if it will tell you what you would get if you waited 3 months.........


Dave
 

itisme

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Floating Week owners

I recently purchased Carriage Hills on eBay. It closed couple of weeks back but have not got my documents yet. I purchased floating red season. If I choose to deposit, I will be screwed :wall: as resort can pick any week in the red season to deposit. I cannot pick a specific week. As most of us know, Red season varies from bright red to pink and will have significantly different trading power.
 

Mel

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The problem is that it is unlikely that all dog weeks are treated the same. Those that are true dog weeks because they are from an overbuilt area and the exchange system is flooded with many more weeks than it has demand for there are not likely to feel the same pain, as RCI will pander to the developers and with a published system not give them their true value. One can expect this based on RCI's history of overpointing such areas in RCI Points and of giving such areas a phony ''red all year'' designation when their own availibility tables published in the European version of their directory clearly show that on supply/demand curves some of those weeks really ought to be blue and white. This will mean that owners of dog weeks will be even more limited in their exchange options than they are now, and that is going to lead to a tsunami of bailouts.

The problem is that none of us will agree what are truly dog weeks. Yes, the "overbuilt" areas have more supply than demand, but you can't tell me the supply/demand ratio of Orlando in January is worse than Cape Cod an January - it's still far more in demand. Also, RCI has said that the only major change is that the numbers will be published, but the underlying valuation system will remain the same. If that is true, then those weeks that can exchange into Orlando and Williamsburg today will still trade into Orlando and Williamsburg after the change.

As to doubling or tripling m/f's to exchange for one week, that is almost laughable for anyone to think that such is a realistic option. That means doubling or tripling m/f's. It is cheaper just to rent from RCI than to do that. RCI is building a system to make such weeks totally unattractive for exchanging.
When you're doubling a low fee ($200), to get into something that rents for $700, it realistic. Not all dog weeks have high fees.

I suspect that anything that has value as a PFD week will have some value in this new system.

Also, that wasn't what I was suggesting anyway. I was suggesting that some of those low-value weeks, those that are low, but not bottom of the barrel, might benefits by being able to exchange into two last-minute weeks. That can be done now, for those in Points, why shouldn't it also be available to the rest of us?

The bailout may be so large that in one fell stroke, RCI may shrink itself to being smaller than II. They are already on track for that to happen in a few years as RCI has been steadily losing market share while II has been steadily gaining, but this may really speed it up.

And if they think they have a pile of excess inventory from the overbuilt areas now, just wait. When they make it so other dog weeks - those with similar supply / demand characteristics - cannot trade in without doubling up, then that pile is only going to get bigger.

Again, if they're not changing the fundamental way things are valued, they won't lose their ability to exchange in

Value in an exchange system should only be based on two factors - 1) supply and 2) demand. Anyting else is just a driver of one of those two factors and should not be rated seperately. If it is, then that is only putting a thumb on the scales to favor or disfavor particular resorts or types of resorts.

If I were RCI, and wanted to manipulate the system, so I could skim desireable weeks for rentals, it would be those weeks that I would overrate, so nobody would accept them as exchanges. If they cost too much, so nobody wants them as exchanger, they truly become excess inventory.

It is of little to no benefit to RCI to overvalue anything, because it is the overvalued weeks that will get left over. The RCI Points system is too simplistic because, as you say, there isn't enough differentiation, and the system is static. In the current weeks system, I can see slight variations between my two beech weeks which in Points would have the same value, and expect that to hold true in the new system. I will also expect to see see variations based on the existing inventory when I want to deposit - if RCI needs my week, I expect to get more value. If they already have 150 similar weeks on deposit, I expect to see less.

What I want to see is how they handle those multiple deposits, particularly bulk banking. I already know my deposited week will hold its value at the time of deposit, for me - but as other weeks are deposited, causing a reduction in the credits needed to exchange in (as happens with a bulk deposit), will the credits required drop for ALL related weeks, and then rise as weeks are taken, or will they only drop for the specific later deposits?

Could it then be of benefit to me to deposit my Orland week 1 year out, and exchange back into it for fewer credits at the 6-month window, giving me excess credits to apply to another vacation (obviously at a cost of an exchange fee)? If I owned a lockout, would it be worthwhile to deposit early, and exchange back into a similar (or same) full unit for credits equivalent to one side of the lockout? Again, it would cost me an exchange fee, but in essesence, I get an extra week for those $200.

While the transparency of this new system will take away some of the hidden benefits enjoyed by many here, there will be new ways to use the system to our advantage.
 

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I had an email chart of value loss based on when you deposit that I can't seem to locate however from memory (numbers may be off a little, memory deteriots with age) if you deposit 9 months or more out you get 100 % of trading value calulated based on supply and demand (mostly) unit size, season and vep.

I hope you find it - I for one would love to see it

It is also very important to realize that if you own at a resort that bulk deposit the same time every year to get your deposits in BEFORE they do there bulk deposits because they will boost the supply curve and give your deposit less value, if they let you deposit yourself.......

It also makes sense, that when most people get there m/f in nov/dec and pay them dec/jan and then deposit which happens every year so to do your best on trading value to deposit before the masses if you can......either because your resort will allow you to deposit before you pay your m/f or pay your m/f early to deposit early........

NOTE: supply and demand is based on historical data NOT live data so if 100 people deposit into resort x today and have never done so before and you deposit tomorrow if should have no or very little effect on your trading value, because its a one time event and although it would boost supply for today it would not be part of historical data. If they started depositing this way every year then it would eventually affect your trading value in a negative way.

These first two paragraphs contradict the last - I would expect anticipated DEMAND to be based on historical data, but SUPPLY to be based of real-time data. 100 other owners deciding to deposit today would be similar to your resort bulk-banking. Supply goes up, no corresponding change to demand, so trading value IS affected in a negative way. But I would think the increased spot demand could have an impact as well, because it would negatively impact existing supply.

Its the same with with special events, motorcycle rally's, car races, golf events etc if they happen the same time every year they creep into historical data and affect trading value if they move around they never get into historical data and so do not affect trading value

I have been told there will be a calculator on the web site that will allow you to see your trading value that you will get if you deposit today before you deposit. I don't know if I asked if it will tell you what you would get if you waited 3 months.
If I were RCI, I would only offer today's value, because there are too many factors that could impact it 3 months away. If RCI promised your trade power would only drop 20% in the next 3 months, and you hold out and try to rent, how upset will you be when it really drops 40%? How many RCI members would than accuse RCI of lying to them? Or what if you deposit now, instead of taking a risk, and it only drops 5 % because your resort decided not to bulk bank?
 

e.bram

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Carolinian: What is fairly? RCI is a business after all.
To me if RCA put in a request first mode like II, that would do it.
 
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If I were RCI, I would only offer today's value, because there are too many factors that could impact it 3 months away. If RCI promised your trade power would only drop 20% in the next 3 months, and you hold out and try to rent, how upset will you be when it really drops 40%? How many RCI members would than accuse RCI of lying to them? Or what if you deposit now, instead of taking a risk, and it only drops 5 % because your resort decided not to bulk bank?

Not correct, if 100 people choose to deposit today they would have to deposit today for the next several years (or at least this week) for it to impact your deposit value, because then it would become historical data it happening once does NOT add it to historical data Same with your resort doing bulk deposits for it to impact your trading value they would have to do it the same time every year to impact......

Story mode: I remember this because it shows how it works:

A owner owned at some nondescript junk resort in central US and for the first couple of years it was what you would expect he got junk or nothing. Then all of a sudden he could get anything anywhere anytime. He never questioned it, don't fix it if it aint broke. Then after 10 years it all ended and went back to getting nothing. This he did question of his resort, )I may not have the right name but it sticks in my mind) for the previous 8 years or so on this mans owned week Jimmy Carter stayed at the resort and it drove demand so high he could get anything, 2 or 3 years after Carter stop going it fell out of historical data and his value bottomed out It did not affect his value for the first couple of years because it had not been added to historical data yet......

I would think rci could tell you right now what your trading value is for your week from today out to its end because historical data for trading value for the next 12 months would already be calculated, what happens in the next few months won't make any difference this year but may next year if its happened several years in a row at the same time......

Dave
 

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Your quoting in red does not allow me to put that here as a quote. Clever!

First - January in Florida is snowbird, i.e. high, season. January in Cape Cod is bitterly cold. Again, quite clever to compare a high season one place with a low season another. But it is not a valid comparision.

A $200/ week m/f in the US? What have you been smoking? Those are quite rare if they even exist. Not a valid comparision. Yes, in some countries with a devalued currency like SA they might be found, but that is not a ''dog week''. According to the supply / demand charts published in the European version of the RCI directory, SA smokes Orlando. Under those charts if anything in SA is a dog week, then most of the year in Orlando is.

RCI's overpointing seems to be driven more by developer politicking than by RCI trying to loot weeks to rent. Although it helps justify their looting, they take what they want anyway.



If I were RCI, and wanted to manipulate the system, so I could skim desireable weeks for rentals, it would be those weeks that I would overrate, so nobody would accept them as exchanges. If they cost too much, so nobody wants them as exchanger, they truly become excess inventory.

It is of little to no benefit to RCI to overvalue anything, because it is the overvalued weeks that will get left over. The RCI Points system is too simplistic because, as you say, there isn't enough differentiation, and the system is static. In the current weeks system, I can see slight variations between my two beech weeks which in Points would have the same value, and expect that to hold true in the new system. I will also expect to see see variations based on the existing inventory when I want to deposit - if RCI needs my week, I expect to get more value. If they already have 150 similar weeks on deposit, I expect to see less.

What I want to see is how they handle those multiple deposits, particularly bulk banking. I already know my deposited week will hold its value at the time of deposit, for me - but as other weeks are deposited, causing a reduction in the credits needed to exchange in (as happens with a bulk deposit), will the credits required drop for ALL related weeks, and then rise as weeks are taken, or will they only drop for the specific later deposits?

Could it then be of benefit to me to deposit my Orland week 1 year out, and exchange back into it for fewer credits at the 6-month window, giving me excess credits to apply to another vacation (obviously at a cost of an exchange fee)? If I owned a lockout, would it be worthwhile to deposit early, and exchange back into a similar (or same) full unit for credits equivalent to one side of the lockout? Again, it would cost me an exchange fee, but in essesence, I get an extra week for those $200.

While the transparency of this new system will take away some of the hidden benefits enjoyed by many here, there will be new ways to use the system to our advantage.
 

skimble

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Will this be a dynamically changing system that adjusts with market demand? Hawaii was a hot trade two years ago... but today, with high airfare costs, it's low demand.
Do you think the credits will adjust accordingly?
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
Correct Again, Sir.

January in Florida is snowbird, i.e. high, season.
Even so, for some reason the 1st 2 weeks in January seem to be more like off-season, judging by the plentiful supply of Last Call & Instant Exchange timeshare weeks during that period each year ever since we started timeshare vacationing.

I would expect January to be prime snowbird time all month long, but apparently it takes the snowbirds a couple of weeks to recover from the Christmas & New Year holidays before heading south, even though up North they face snow up to the window sills & ice up to the hubcaps.

Who'd a-thunk ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

"Roger"

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We are getting the Orlando-is-overpointed-because-published-values-lead-developers-to-pressure-RCI-into-overpointing-their-resorts argument (hereafter to be referred to as the OIOBPVLDTPRIOTR argument :) ). Supposedly, hidden values lead (have led) to more realistic (and fairer) evaluations. Therefore, we are better off with a secret system.

This type of argument is called an argument from ignorance. This is an official name for a type of fallacious argument. (In other words, this is not a title I am making up in order to be abusive.) This type of argument depends upon someone presuming that something that we have no knowledge of (are ignorant of) is just what it has to be to win the argument. In the above case, the presumption is that, within the current system of unpublished trading powers, Orlando units pulls something quite different (vastly less) than what they do in Points. But do we really know that?

In this case, we are not entirely lacking in knowledge as to how Orlando units trade within a system of unpublished values. See post #269 in this thread. The long and the short of it is that when TUG did trade tests, Orlando did not get bottom basement treatment within a system of hidden trading power because of a vast oversupply of units. It had what I would call second tier trading value. There are a few places with exceptionally high trading power, then Orlando (and quite a few other places) falling into a second tier. This is just the same as what is true in Points. So open values do not seem to have led to massive distortions of trading power.

The bottomline is don't just assume (as the OIOBPVLDTPRIOTR argument suggests) that somehow the current secret system of trading power does things exactly as someone argues it must in order to win an argument. In this case, there is evidence to the contrary.
 

"Roger"

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...
Then there are the people with pink weeks in Gold Crown resorts in areas with a so-so supply / demand curve. These people are going to get a comeupance. They have thought they were Red Gold Crown, top of the heap, as their saleman told them, and will find out otherwise...
This was a point that Carolinian made several days ago. I was going to ignore it, but I decided, rather than getting into all the negative, defensive arguments, it would be valuable to state the positive... why the changeover is a good thing.

I agree with what Carolinian says in the quote. When trading power is revealed, there are going to be people in so-so supply areas (or people with pink season weeks) who are going to be irrate when they find that their two bedroom gold crown unit is worth considerably less than what their salesperson led them to believe (if they haven't found that already). That is the very reason that the current system needs to change.

For the last ten years, I have been arguing that if there were one single change that should be made to clean up timesharing (and I am not suggesting that there is only one, this is just the one that I think is the biggest), it should be that exchange companies should reveal trading power. Why? Look at the quote. Over the last ten years, developers have had free reign to over represent the trading power of their units. This has cost naive buyers tens of millions (if not hundreds of millions) of dollars when they ended up buying overpriced units based upon inflated claims. LET THE BUYER KNOW WHAT HE OR SHE IS BUYING. (Sorry about shouting.)

Basically, the system of hidden trading values has been a developer relief fund allowing them to overcharge for thier product. No, it doesn't affect me, but I care. Lets get together as a timesharing community and try to end this abusive system.
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
You Typed A Mouthful.

The bottomline is don't just assume (as the OIOBPVLDTPRIOTR argument suggests) that somehow the current secret system of trading power does things exactly as someone argues it must in order to win an argument. In this case, there is evidence to the contrary.
I don't assume that -- & it's nice getting some TUG-BBS reinforcement in that regard.

I have as much nostalgia for the Good Old Days as just about anybody else, but I also recognize that for most practical purposes the Good Old Days Are Now.

Even if the Good Old Days of the past were better -- maybe they were, maybe they weren't, who knows? -- those days are over & all we've got to live in is the world as it is now.

In my semi-ignorant way, I say shux upon secret hidden timeshare trading power ratings set by the Gnomes Of RCI tucked away in some clandestine sub-basement somewhere outside Carmel, Indiana.

Nobody I know claims the value settings of RCI Points are anywhere close to perfect -- just that, once set, they're all out there in the open for people to accept or reject for their own reasons that are good enough for them.

People who don't like it can sign on instead with I-I -- & in the process help I-I stay on trend to eclipse RCI just any day now.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

Lisa P

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A $200/ week m/f in the US?
Quite common in points systems. A blue studio deposit only costs me ~$120 in MF. Its low trade power accurately reflects this.

Where resorts charge all fixed week owners the same MFs year-round, even though the value of a red week far exceeds the value of a blue week, you'll rarely find a $200 MF. However, THAT inequity puts a greater pressure on POA budgets through blue week foreclosures than anything an external exchange company has done or could do to seasonal timeshares.
 
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