• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

5000 WM pts. $3500.00, Good deal?

sun starved Gayle

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,196
Reaction score
1,244
Points
523
Location
Washington State
Should I take it or leave it? I have been hankerin' for some WM points for quite a while. I live in the NW and think I would use the bonus time quite a bit as there are many resorts within a couple of hours drive. The package includes this years fees and a few hundred banked points.

Soooo.... What do you WM experts think?

TIA
Gayle
 

Bill4728

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
11,038
Reaction score
598
Points
899
Location
Lake Tapps, WA
Most people have said anything under $0.75 is a very good price and this is $0.70 so it looks like a good deal.
 

EZ-ED

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
548
Reaction score
71
Points
388
Location
ID
If I was interested in WM I would go for .70 per point. I'm just very wary of anything Cendant though. What is the home resort?
 

mtngal

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
306
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Frazier Park, CA
I'd go for that - its less than what I paid a year ago.

But don't necessarily buy if you plan on primarily using bonus time in the NW - bonus time is unused inventory and very difficult to get in popular resorts on weekends. If you are planning on using it during the week, and at off times you'd have better luck. It's also possible to get bonus time when you are lucky enough to call when someone cancels, but it's not a sure thing (I got Monterey for Labor Day weekend once that way). Since WorldMark doesn't have home resorts, you will be competing with everyone else for the really popular resorts/vacation times.
 

MattnTricia

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2005
Messages
364
Reaction score
74
Points
388
Great Price - All you want is in to their system and then you can rent additional credits for real close to the maintenace costs there after. I think a 5000 pt week at 70 is great. Not likely you will find a lower cost on a 5000 point package as they usually sell for a bit more per credit than a 6000 or 7000 credit week because of the maintenace fee difference.
 

Judy

TUG Review Crew: ELITE
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
2,628
Reaction score
18
Points
423
Location
Melbourne Beach FL; Steamboat Springs CO
Sorry you missed out this time. When the next deal comes along, be sure to figure in the "closing costs" in the price of the credits. Worldmark charges $150. You will have to pay that wherever you buy resale. But some sellers charge much more. There is no deed to transfer, so anything above the $150 transfer is profit for the seller, unless you're paying an escrow agent.
 

EZ-ED

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
548
Reaction score
71
Points
388
Location
ID
Hi Ed...WM doesnt have a home resort. Your points are applicable system wide.

Hmmm I knew that I could use points for all the different resorts but I thought you had a home resort that your points would always get the 1 or two bedroom or whatever point level you purchased. I guess I didn't follow up on the research once I found out that Cendant owns Trendwest.
 

PerryM

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
2
Points
36
Recap of my post on WM curent prices

Here is a recap from another chat room on WM:

Ok, for those of you who think I’m pulling your leg, here is a sample of today's specials at a popular reseller:

As of today here are their featured WM sales:

Item #1:
6000 ANNUAL CREDITS, 4400 UNUSED ON THE BOOKS
AUGUST ANNIVERSARY, PREMIER MEMBERSHIP
SALES PRICE ONLY $4250 PLUS CLOSING COSTS

Item #2:
6000 ANNUAL CREDITS, -400 CREDITS ON THE BOOKS
OCTOBER ANNIVERSARY WHERE YOU WILL THEN HAVE
5600 CREDITS AVAILABLE FOR USAGE
PREMIER MEMBERSHIP, DUES PAID UP UNTIL JANUARY, 2008
PURCHASE PRICE ONLY $4,200 PLUS CLOSING COSTS!!

Item #3:
7000 ANNUAL CREDITS, 17,000 UNUSED ON THE BOOKS
MARCH ANNIVERSARY, (THE 17,000 UNUSED CREDITS
INCLUDE THE CREDITS FOR THIS YEAR)PREMIER MEMBERSHIP
SALES PRICE ONLY $5600 PLUS CLOSING COSTS-

Item #4:
9000 ANNUAL CREDITS, 11,525 UNUSED CREDITS ON THE BOOKS
DECEMBER ANNIVERSARY, PREMIER MEMBERSHIP
SALES PRICE ONLY $7,000 PLUS CLOSING COSTS

Item #5:
10,000 ANNUAL CREDITS, 6700 UNUSED CREDITS ON THE BOOKS
JULY ANNIVERSARY, PREMIER MEMBERSHIP
SALES PRICE ONLY $7400 PLUS CLOSING COSTS

Item #6:
12,000 ANNUAL CREDITS, 6902 UNUSED CREDITS ON THE BOOKS
OCTOBER ANNIVERSARY, PREMIER MEMBERSHIP
SALES PRICE ONLY $8500 PLUS CLOSING COSTS

Item #7:
37,000 ANNUAL CREDITS, 41,000 UNUSED CREDITS ON THE BOOKS
OCTOBER ANNIVERSARY, PREMIER MEMBERSHIP
ASKING PRICE ONLY $27,250 PLUS CLOSING COSTS!

When you “Normalize” the accounts* you get:

Item #1 costs 72¢
Item #2 costs 76¢
Item #3 costs 71¢
Item #4 costs 76¢
Item #5 costs 76¢
Item #6 costs 74¢
Item #7 costs 73¢


As you see 70¢ is not that far away.

* Normalized means that the number of credits in the account, ready to spend, is exactly equal to the size of the account up for sale. E.g. a 10,000 WM account with 12,000 credits would reduce the sales price by 2,000 * 6¢ or -$120. 6¢ is used for both renting in or out credits.

4 years ago you could have added 10¢ to each of the above for the prices back then. I looked for a month or so until I found an 80¢ sale.

4 years ago Wyndham/TrendWest sold WM credits for $1.55 and today it's $1.82.

Anyone celebrating this has got to have a heart to heart talk with a shrink.

Here is the eMail that started and probably ends this thread:

THIS IS 7K ANNUAL WITH 14K UNUSED AND A NOVEMBER ANNIVERSARY FOR
$5300....... ..CONTACT. ..JEFF FXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


This normalizes out to 69.7¢ per WM credit

Here's another one I just got from the same reseller:

Worldmark/The Club, 7000 Annual Credits
7000 Unused credits on the books, January Anniversary
Premier Membership, Maint. fees $406

Purchase price only $4,900

That's exactly 70¢ a credit.

Conclusion:
Paying more than 75¢ is a waste of your money.

Good hunting,

P.S.
My point of the post was that folks were delighting in the plummeting price of WM credits - that's great if the slide ends in the wake of the developer's price rising in the same time from $1.55 a WM credit to $1.80.

If you have no WM credits this is a fire sale.

If you own WM credits you are standing in the fire.
 
Last edited:

TravlGrl

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
125
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Seattle
I guess I didn't follow up on the research once I found out that Cendant owns Trendwest.

Cendant is no longer involved with Worldmark/Trendwest/Wyndham. :)

tj
 

KenK

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
2,157
Reaction score
1
Points
36
Location
NepCity,NJ/Hlywd,FL
Cendant is no longer, at all, since it broke into its four pieces.

Someone told EZ-ED that the points don't back any ownership of a unit of any size.

Perry posted prices plus closing costs. Doesn't closing costs mean there is some kind of real estate involved? Can points (all by themselves?) be real estate?
 

PerryM

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
2
Points
36
$150 paperwork fee

Cendant is no longer, at all, since it broke into its four pieces.

Someone told EZ-ED that the points don't back any ownership of a unit of any size.

Perry posted prices plus closing costs. Doesn't closing costs mean there is some kind of real estate involved? Can points (all by themselves?) be real estate?


The prices I quoted did NOT include transfer of ownership. Wyndham charges $150 to change the name on the 4 page document signed by buyer and seller. WM is a real estate club where membership rights are owned in each WM credit.
 

sfsailors

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
60
Reaction score
0
Points
216
Location
SF Bay Area
* Normalized means that the number of credits in the account, ready to spend, is exactly equal to the size of the account up for sale. E.g. a 10,000 WM account with 12,000 credits would reduce the sales price by 2,000 * 6¢ or -$120. 6¢ is used for both renting in or out credits..

You miss the aniversary factor. How often and how easy you can rent in a credit for 6¢?

4 years ago you could have added 10¢ to each of the above for the prices back then. I looked for a month or so until I found an 80¢ sale.

4 years ago Wyndham/TrendWest sold WM credits for $1.55 and today it's $1.82...
A house in my area, 4 years ago sold for 200K bow it is selling for 600K. The price you quote for WM show that you are more connected than 4 years ago

If you have no WM credits this is a fire sale.

If you own WM credits you are standing in the fire.

Four years ago, you predict the price of resale WM credit will go down to 25¢ per credit. You are right on the direction but not even close on the number. I bought 3 resale WM acounts in 8,7,6 years ago with price arount 60¢ "normalized" (by my way) and the price is almost the same now. I am still in the market for some more credit.
 

PerryM

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
2
Points
36
The chart says a thousand words

Sfsailors,

I’ve never rented a WM credit in or out – I’m just going by what others have told me – 6 to 8 ¢ is the going rate.

25% of all WM credits expire worthless each year – WM owners pay their MFs but never use all their credits which expire in 2 years from issue. (That figure was from a WM BOD member, it can’t be linked to)

That would indicate that there are plenty of folks ready to rent their credits.

My prediction from 4 years ago is really a ratio of what WM credits could slip to if they follow the FF model. FF and WM are related. FF owners routinely lose 85% of their investment seconds after signing the sales contract. If you use that same 85% loss on $1.82, the current WN sales price, you get 27.3¢ So it has gone up in value. WM owners only lose 62% of their value now.

Since then I’ve learned a lot about WM, I believe that the 4,500+ condos that WM owns are worth about 70¢ real estate value per WM credit. I doubt that the resale market knows this nor holds that price as a support level – but it is an interesting statistic.

I've attached a chart for the past 4 years on WM prices.
 
Last edited:

sfsailors

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
60
Reaction score
0
Points
216
Location
SF Bay Area
Sfsailors,

I’ve never rented a WM credit in or out – I’m just going by what others have told me – 6 to 8 ¢ is the going rate..
I saw them sold on Ebay for 8¢ all the time, 6¢ is hard to get, even 7¢.
25% of all WM credits expire worthless each year – WM owners pay their MFs but never use all their credits which expire in 2 years from issue. (That figure was from a WM BOD member, it can’t be linked to)

That would indicate that there are plenty of folks ready to rent their credits.
..
I believe your number of WM credits expire, but if they know how to rent out , likely they know know to book a vacation
My prediction from 4 years ago is really a ratio of what WM credits could slip to if they follow the FF model. FF and WM are related. FF owners routinely lose 85% of their investment seconds after signing the sales contract. If you use that same 85% loss on $1.82, the current WN sales price, you get 27.3¢ So it has gone up in value. WM owners only lose 62% of their value now.
..
I don't know much about FF and I am not interested in knowing, I live in SF area. WM is WM and FF is FF, they just happened to be owned by Cendent
I think resale WM price is high because it have low maintenance fee, easy to book and easy to cancel. As long as they keep the lower maintenance and same booking policy the resale price will maintain it high value ratio. Talking about maintenance, 8 years ago my 6000 credit account maintenance fee only $260.
Since then I’ve learned a lot about WM, I believe that the 4,500+ condos that WM owns are worth about 70¢ real estate value per WM credit. I doubt that the resale market knows this nor holds that price as a support level – but it is an interesting statistic.
The value of the condo have very little relation to the the resale price, the maintence fee and booking policy do

I've attached a chart for the past 4 years on WM prices.

How many data point did you use to draw this chart. How did you normalized the data. I have around 300 data point collecting from Jeff Fudge and Dan Murphy site ( I bought my WM from them ) and it is almost the same for many years. I am still looking to buy if the price is good.
 

PerryM

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
2
Points
36
sfsailors,

When we bought our first WM credits 4 years ago from Jeff, I watched and waited more than a month before finding 80¢ credits – then I bought.

I’m using the same methodology here – I’ve watched and waited 4 years and finally saw WM credits from Jeff for less than 70¢.

I don’t have any other way to compare the results since I’ve not captured any other data – the methodology is exactly the same.

These are the numbers I plotted – my actual sale and the sale I could have made a week ago.

I don’t trust eBay numbers at all – too many pranksters winning auctions and not paying – the resulting numbers are all suspicious to me. I only use published numbers on resale sites or eMails I get.

I don’t assume for a second that just because someone knows how to book a vacation doesn’t mean they can’t rent their credits out. There are many WM owners who just don’t know how to play the game and get the holiday weeks and weeks that the kids are off of school. They never get their weeks and their credits just roll forward to next year. Eventually they run out of time and start to rent out their credits. Unfortunately at that point the credits expire shortly and they get much less than 6¢ even 4¢ or lower; at least those are some of the horror stories I get in eMails on a frequent basis.

The same folks who run FF run Wyndham (WN) – I assume that their goal is the same – the destruction of their resale market. FF has demonstrated they know how to do it; WN is still learning.

The actual real estate value per WM credit has little meaning to the value of the resale market – but that number can stop WN’s desire to kill the WM’s resale market dead in its tracks.
 

sfsailors

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
60
Reaction score
0
Points
216
Location
SF Bay Area
The same folks who run FF run Wyndham (WN) – I assume that their goal is the same – the destruction of their resale market. FF has demonstrated they know how to do it; WN is still learning.

The actual real estate value per WM credit has little meaning to the value of the resale market – but that number can stop WN’s desire to kill the WM’s resale market dead in its tracks.

I don't think that their goal is to kill the resale market by lowering the price . They never can and never will. How can people would buy something if they can't sell it back when they don't need it. A good timeshare system is a timeshare that can hold the resale price 50-75% from the developer. The key factor to keep the resale price high is low maintenance. As long as the developer put in new resorts to the system, they will keep the maintenance fee low. Your prediction that the resale market will go down to 25c will be true if the maintenance go up three times. Their new policy will make the small account harder to get bonus time, but it won't affect me or you. I guess in the near future they will increase the price of bonus time. Now it come to a point that the bonus time price is higher than and credit time price ( I have a NHK account). I am not angry if the value of resale price go down to 10 cent per credit because I am happy to buy more. I only am not happy if they inrease the maintenance fee three times. And I know that they can't do that as long as they want put more resorts into the system
 

PerryM

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
2
Points
36
Termites keep eating away...

Sfsailors,

When you sell your house the termite inspector makes a visit. If termite infestation is found, he doesn’t say “Well it looks new so there is nothing to worry about right now” – the house must be immediately fumigated and repaired.

WN is just another WM owner with the same 4 page ownership document as you or I have – there is NO difference. WN knows that they are just a reseller of their own WM credits and there is absolutely no difference between what they do and what you can do – resell some/all of your WM credits.

This is unique in the timeshare world. Because of this, WN is consumed with cooking up schemes to make the new owner think they are getting something worth 160% more expensive than the WM credits sold by the other 240,000 WM owners.

WN has just begun a lifelong project to make a difference in the mind of the guy wandering into their sales gallery – WN MUST demonstrate that our WM credits are inferior to theirs. The net result of this eating away at confidence in WM resale credits will cause a bigger supply of them and a lessening of demand – all the components of a collapse of the WM resale market.

Just as January 2000 marked a turning point in the internet driven stock market, so could this mark the beginning of an implosion in WM resale credit prices. The developer, WN, has declared an all out war on their competition, the rest of the 240,000 WM owners who can do the same thing with their WM credits – resell them to anyone for any price.

This is but one of many assaults on the WM resale market - just like termites they won't give up until they are fumigated out of our club.
 
Last edited:

sfsailors

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
60
Reaction score
0
Points
216
Location
SF Bay Area
WN is just another WM owner with the same 4 page ownership document as you or I have – there is NO difference. WN knows that they are just a reseller of their own WM credits and there is absolutely no difference between what they do and what you can do – resell some/all of your WM credits..

There is big different. WN sell with a price 2-3 times than reseller
This is unique in the timeshare world. Because of this, WN is consumed with cooking up schemes to make the new owner think they are getting something worth 160% more expensive than the WM credits sold by the other 240,000 WM owners.

WN has just begun a lifelong project to make a difference in the mind of the guy wandering into their sales gallery – WN MUST demonstrate that our WM credits are inferior to theirs. The net result of this eating away at confidence in WM resale credits will cause a bigger supply of them and a lessening of demand – all the components of a collapse of the WM resale market.
.
There is very few demand for Timeshare from developer, Most people bought timeshare from developer because they are uninformed or the price from developer is not different from the reseller . I wouldn't buy something from flea market if the price is 25% less than the store, but if the price is 75% lesser I would buy. The same with TS, if people know that they can buy in the resale marketthe a price lower half price they never buy from the developer
Just as January 2000 marked a turning point in the internet driven stock market, so could this mark the beginning of an implosion in WM resale credit prices. The developer, WN, has declared an all out war on their competition, the rest of the 240,000 WM owners who can do the same thing with their WM credits – resell them to anyone for any price.

This is but one of many assaults on the WM resale market - just like termites they won't give up until they are fumigated out of our club.
I don't follow your logic here. Why the WM ownere need to sell they credit to anyone for any price?
Most people know that Timeshare is for entertainment not for investment. If they can't use them and they have to pay maintenance fee every year then they will get rid of their TS for any price. But if they can book the resort and enjoy it and pay a reasonable maintenance fee they have less motivation to sell. Very few people care for the resale price the TS they owned. I have a different view from you about WM resale price. It's almost the same for the last 5 years if not a little higher.
 
Top