Newbie...need help (Shell) [3 threads merged]

vacationhopeful said:

I looked at Inn at the Park for a niece wedding .... in late July for March dates. I hate flying 3000 plus miles for a 2 night wedding in a vineyard 45 miles east of San Diego. Wide open ... no problem. Was waiting for MORE definite dates before booking pre/post stays with some of the gang.

Timeshares are still a more RESORT idea thing. Or where there are BIG PARTIES with limited access (New Orleans with its Gulf and swamps) or the beaches or theme parks. Cities tend to have hotels with "booking engines" groups. And you have to have a LARGE population who can DRIVE to a resort. In many ways with a full kitchen & living room ... it is a family vacation attraction life style.

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Thanks, I think I'm going to have to take the plunge to feel things out completely. I'm hoping if it doesn't work out I can give it away by paying closing costs like I'm doing to acquire it...

I don't want to have to set my alarm and sit by the computer trying to book when the lottery opens with 10,000 other people like trying to get good concert tickets... I would try to book within a few days or a week of the booking window opening though.

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One caveat: If you aren't willing to at least try to book right when the window opens, school holiday weekends (the times are you are considering) at popular family destinations (e.g. Anaheim) are going to be hard.

If it were me, I'd commit to doing what needed to be done to book what I wanted, or I'd just rent from someone who is more willing to do it.

taterhed said:

Not sure about the laundry comment. Maybe you don't understand HKT's?

Good luck with your search.
I own two Marriott's. I like nice digs. Hilton is also very nice....Marriott was just a better fit. But, it ain't cheap.

There have a been a few free HGVC's: 1 br EOY etc... but still over $1000 mf's for max 1 br. Marriott trades well, but again....MF's over $1000 (well over) and always trading. Plus, ROFR to defeat with most of these.

I own WM as well: because the fun isn't just the kill, it's in the hunt.

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It was referencing our trying to rent a condo (not a timeshare condo) from an owner. We had to stay and clean, do the laundry so we could get a $500 deposit back. That's why I'm back looking at timeshares to get the 2 bedroom units we are looking for.

From what I understand you have two HK tokens a year (Shell). Every visit requires 1 token (cleaning when you leave). If you need more you have to buy them. If it is a week stay do you have to use 2 tokens (one cleaning at day 4 and one when you leave)?

I'm looking for the hotel aspect of it being cleaned and well maintained but in larger 2 bedroom units. Those units seem hard to book and very expensive outside the timeshare market.

bnoble said:

One caveat: If you aren't willing to at least try to book right when the window opens, school holiday weekends (the times are you are considering) at popular family destinations (e.g. Anaheim) are going to be hard.

If it were me, I'd commit to doing what needed to be done to book what I wanted, or I'd just rent from someone who is more willing to do it.

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I am willing to work, but I don't know how good I'd be at manipulating the system...

I don't want to work that hard for every reservation...

Hbushey said:

It was referencing our trying to rent a condo (not a timeshare condo) from an owner. We had to stay and clean, do the laundry so we could get a $500 deposit back. That's why I'm back looking at timeshares to get the 2 bedroom units we are looking for.

From what I understand you have two HK tokens a year (Shell). Every visit requires 1 token (cleaning when you leave). If you need more you have to buy them. If it is a week stay do you have to use 2 tokens (one cleaning at day 4 and one when you leave)?

I'm looking for the hotel aspect of it being cleaned and well maintained but in larger 2 bedroom units. Those units seem hard to book and very expensive outside the timeshare market.

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Gotcha. Yup, you're right. Many VRBO's require cleaning fees (just like WM or SVC) of $150. That's been our experience.

Hbushey said:

It was referencing our trying to rent a condo (not a timeshare condo) from an owner. We had to stay and clean, do the laundry so we could get a $500 deposit back. That's why I'm back looking at timeshares to get the 2 bedroom units we are looking for.

From what I understand you have two HK tokens a year (Shell). Every visit requires 1 token (cleaning when you leave). If you need more you have to buy them. If it is a week stay do you have to use 2 tokens (one cleaning at day 4 and one when you leave)?

I'm looking for the hotel aspect of it being cleaned and well maintained but in larger 2 bedroom units. Those units seem hard to book and very expensive outside the timeshare market.

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HK tokens are for the STAY ... whether it is 1 night or 10 nights. Shell allows you to book LONGER than 7 nights on a reservation ... ie checkin FRIDAY and leave on the 2nd Sunday. Planning and understanding the "rules" is required to use ANY timeshare product.

I just hate it that I have to KNOW Wyndham, DVC, Shell and RCI Points plus be able to exchange thru RCI, II and VRI. TUG is a BIG help.

A family friend has a vacation home ... when they first got it, they rented it out weekly/weekends. Every Sunday after a renter left was the day to drive 125 miles each way to clean & reset the unit, to haul the trash back and then wash the linens. On Monday, the favorite descriptive words of the day were SLOBS & PIGS.... every rental payment went to paying extra on the principal of the 20 year mortgage note. Multiple times, the 10AM checkout was not met - several times, the guest(s) decided Sunday was whatever day they decided to leave on. They ALWAYS carried a set of locks - rotating locks after every few rentals or after some "character". Yes, they had written contracts and carried a camera. Now, when asked if they still rent the place ... the replied phrase is clearly "N(F)W".

vacationhopeful said:

HK tokens are for the STAY ... whether it is 1 night or 10 nights. Shell allows you to book LONGER than 7 nights on a reservation ... ie checkin FRIDAY and leave on the 2nd Sunday. Planning and understanding the "rules" is required to use ANY timeshare product.

I just hate it that I have to KNOW Wyndham, DVC, Shell and RCI Points plus be able to exchange thru RCI, II and VRI. TUG is a BIG help.

A family friend has a vacation home ... when they first got it, they rented it out weekly/weekends. Every Sunday after a renter left was the day to drive 125 miles each way to clean & reset the unit, to haul the trash back and then wash the linens. On Monday, the favorite descriptive words of the day were SLOBS & PIGS.... every rental payment went to paying extra on the principal of the 20 year mortgage note. Multiple times, the 10AM checkout was not met - several times, the guest(s) decided Sunday was whatever day they decided to leave on. They ALWAYS carried a set of locks - rotating locks after every few rentals or after some "character". Yes, they had written contracts and carried a camera. Now, when asked if they still rent the place ... the replied phrase is clearly "N(F)W".

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I totally understood why the security deposits etc... But we also paid $150 housekeeping AND had to wash all the linens. Hard to do the linens when you have to sleep in them that night and use towels to shower in the morning. Then they won't all fit in one load. We stayed several hours cleaning and doing laundry. Total PIA. We just discovered that renting from a homeowner was too big of a hassle compared to my moms timeshare we stayed at, so here I am looking again

I'm trying really hard to understand it all so I don't feel trapped and feeling like a made a big mistake because of some element I didn't get before I dove in. Thank god for this website and all the wonderful people who are willing to share their experiences!

Here are my completed and pending reservations for Worldmark (at the end) since June 2009. No need to be afraid of what you see being posted.

I became an owner in June of 2009 and started with 7000 credits. I just added another 5000 credits which brings me to a total of 33k credits. I follow all booking guidelines and there is no "scheming" to get a reservation. I have in fact made it my goal to book the locations during the times that most complain about not getting (Depoe Bay and Seaside ocean front on the 4th of July). I have never used "throw away weeks" nor have I ever used a single "throw away day." I plan my summer vacations and start following the booking calendar about 14 months out, I devise a strategy following WM guidelines, and I book those summer vacation units first. Once I have those reservations for the year I then plan the rest of the holiday stays that I am booking for less than 7 days and I start booking as soon as 9 months out. What I can not get I waitlist which is also within the guidelines.

I posted this on FB the other day because of the many complaints by those that have been owners since before the online booking system. They use to have to call in or mail a letter stating when and where they wanted to travel. I was not around at the time but this is why I think they are so upset:
"Since booking was done without owners being able to see availability I bet it gave the false sense that there was a ton of availability since you could not see what was actually there. So you call in give the dates you want to travel during and they tell you we have a, b, or c available and you then have to pick from only that. Now the perceptions is we have 70 locations in existence and I want to go to location c Then you check if c is bookable and get disappointed because its not. All the options were not available to you before but you just never knew that to be the case."

I love my Worldmark and would not trade it in for the world. All the Anaheim and Dolphins Cove reservations I have pending, 4 total, I just made over the last month. Two are for 6 days, one is for 5 days, and one is for 3 days. Both locations are within a mile and a half of Disney and Dolphins Cove is considered the more difficult one to get into. All 4 reservations are for holidays, 1 for Thanksgiving week, 1 for Christmas/New Years school break time, 1 for spring break, and the last is a holiday weekend in May.

You must be flexible and book things as they come up. You have to check availability and watch to see how many units are left. Then when it starts to get low book it and decide later if you are actually going to go. Don't use "throw away days" but use place holders, which are called "lead in days," and waitlist to replace the place holder with the day you really want. You are reading the negative threads by people that just want to stir the pot. Read instead the responses that those threads get and you will come close to the truth as to what WM is like.

WM VISITED: Indio (12x), Big Bear, Solvang (3x), Orlando, Anaheim (3x), Depoe Bay (2x), Angels Camp (4x), Running Y, Las Vegas Blvd (2x), Dolphins Cove, SD Mission Valley, Oceanside, Marina Dunes, Seaside, and Clear Lake
WM PENDING: Palm Springs, Anaheim, Dolphins Cove (3x), Queen Mary, St. George (2x), Wolf Creek (2x), and Yellowstone.

Are there any consumer protections in laws for us?
Not that I know of other than the basic ones. Like if you buy from the developer you have x number of days to cancel.

Is there a limit to the number of points/ memberships that can be issued.
Yes, the number of points issue is based on units at a new location. Once sold for that location they cannot add more credits at that location. They have to add another location to create more credits. Its a formula, number of units based on size at the location times weeks per year, minus a week (or 2, I'm not sure) per unit for maintenance. However, if they add more units at that location then those units come with additional points.

Can Wyndham arbitrarily raise point cost to book a unit so they can add and then sell more memberships?
Again no, the number of credits are determined when the location comes into the club and it can never be changed except for once and that was through court order. At that time it was to the benefit of the owners. Some locations reduced the points per unit. Others will argue that on the other hand we lost some units due to that court case so it was a wash IMO.

If there are more memberships and points then rooms then what are you buying and paying for?
There are not more memberships than point. The number of points is based on the number of units minus a maintenance week (see above).

AS for WYN renting out units, yes they can but only in the last month+ before the reservation (I can't remember if its 48 days, 52 day, something like that). This is because while they are waiting to sell the credits they own they are paying maintenance fee on them and they own them just like an owner. Also owners can trade their points back for cruises, city passes, air fare if they bought from the developer. WYN has to make back their costs for having provided this service and they prefer to do it through special offers open to everyone such as Monday Madness (MM) where you can use cash to make a reservation and save you credits for longer reservation since MM includes cleaning the unit in the cost. Both my St. George and Wolf Creek reservations I got last week using MM and one of my Dolphin Cove reservations as well.

So lets say you want to go every summer to Anaheim for 10 day. At 13 months out most likely you will be able to book it directly. However, if you want Dolphins Cove in a 2 bedroom chances are that for the summer you may have to book Indio as a place holder for a day or 2 and group it with the remaining 8 days at Dolpins Cove. As you are on the phone booking this reservation you need to tell the person on the phone you want to waitlist the 2 Indio days at Dolphins Cove.

So at 13 months out you will have a 2 day reservation at Indio and an 8 day reservation at Dolphins Cove. If you are driving in from the 10 you may want to use your Indio reservation. If you are coming from the north you may want to substitute Solvang or Angles Camp instead of Indio. If you are only wanting the Dolphins Cove reservation then you will have to wait and see if your waitlist comes through which it probably will. The above 2 paragraphs is what the complainers don't want to have to do to get the reservation they want or they never thought they could do the above even though its in the guidelines that WE CAN do this. The only catch is that both segments of the reservation, Indio and Anaheim need to be in red season. Indio has about a 3 week period in the summer that is white and blue season so you could not make your reservation during those weeks.

itschoice:

Nice post. Made more 'agreed' comments, but erased them. Trying to slim down my posts.

I wouldn't suggest buying any contracts at this time. You can learn the systems and figure out availability by renting what you want from owners. There are lots of owners who cannot use all their points. If you find you can consistently get the reservations you want, then go ahead and take on a contract.

Booking short stays with Shell has been pretty easy. I don't have to follow the school schedules, though, so that may be more difficult. There are a few annoying things about booking Shell if you are having to hunt and peck for your reservations. You only get 2 free transactions per year. If you go over those 2 and you later book something and then cancel it, you will have paid 2 fees. Also, they don't have a waitlist.

With Worldmark, people do use lead in days. I don't do that. I use the wait list. That can take some work, but it did get me 5 nights in Yosemite during the high season. You basically wait list the days you want and if one comes available, you book it and continue to wait list the other days. Much more often than not, people get the reservation that they wanted.

I wouldn't suggest Hilton for you unless you just want to stay in Carlsbad all the time. It sounds like you want to visit other parts of California. Shell would be good for that and Worldmark would be better than Shell just for the # locations.

Hbushey said:

Thanks, I think I'm going to have to take the plunge to feel things out completely. I'm hoping if it doesn't work out I can give it away by paying closing costs like I'm doing to acquire it...

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I own a boatload of Shell points, almost certainly more than anyone else on earth, and I will tell you that while I have learned to love Shell's system, I would not recommend anyone take a plunge on a whim into SVC. Currently Shell has negative value. You would likely have to pony up a decent incentive to give away a contract. In current state, if you are only getting your closing costs paid, then you have "paid" too much for the Shell contract

The SVC site and booking engine are terrible, abysmal. Vino Bello's server is down at least five or six times per year, from a day or two to more than a week, during which time you are completely unable to make a reservation without making some specialized calls to corporate customer service. Sometimes a transaction does not go through but your credit card still gets charged.

Hbushey said:

For shell owners, is booking less than a week long stay in the following resorts each year within the allowed booking window for short stays impossible?

1. Vino
2. Suites at Fishermans wharf
3. Peacock
4. Inn at the Park

Thanks!

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For Vino Bello and Peacock Suites, other than perhaps a few very specific dates, you can pretty much get what you want at 3 months out, and if during the week even a few weeks out. Inn at the Park has pretty decent availability 2-3 months out, although if you want a 2br, you might look further in advance. But the Vino Bello and IaP 2br weekend rate points cost is insanely pricy in my opinion. Suites at Fisherman's Wharf is one I would highly suggest booking much further in advance. It by far has the tightest availability of any resort in the West collection.

Thank you everyone for your input. I think I've pretty much settled on Shell due to the locations I want and the biggest reason, that I primarily want to use points for multiple short stays <1week. Shells liberal booking policy of 308 days out for stays <1week is what we need. I found Worldmark only allows this at a 90day window and from what I've gathered from everyone it seems this IS not enough of a window to choose any specific days, just to pick from what's left.

Beefnot, thanks so much for the insight into availability. That has been my biggest hold up. My biggest fear has been commiting only to find out I can't get any reservations. I know we will use up all our points and it will be worth it as my husband and I do shift work with 3-4 days off each week. Commiting to the maintenance fees no matter what will motivate us to get out of town for a few days to breathe.

So excited!!cheer:

Congrats. Reply with your successes!

Hbushey said:

I found Worldmark only allows this at a 90day window and from what I've gathered from everyone it seems this IS not enough of a window to choose any specific days, just to pick from what's left.

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I'm not steering you away from Shell, but wanted to let you know that it is 10 months out that you book as short as one nights stay at Worldmark.

Cost of Shell rental points

Can a current owner tell me the current cost of renting points from Shell? We will be buying soon and trying to decide the right number of points for us.

Thanks

presley said:

I'm not steering you away from Shell, but wanted to let you know that it is 10 months out that you book as short as one nights stay at Worldmark.

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That certainly changes things...

I just googled it and found a FAQ on Worldmarks site that in Red Season you must book a full week until 90 days out. All the locations I was interested in were Red Season year round. Is the 10 months for just blue and white seasons? It's hard to make a decision when only members can access all the policies...

Points can only be rented in a 60 day window. 25c sticks in my mind, but I'm not certain.

Ty1on said:

Points can only be rented in a 60 day window. 25c sticks in my mind, but I'm not certain.

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Thanks, is there a way or market to rent from other owners?

Hbushey said:

Is that only if there is a less then one week block available. That certainly changes things... I just googled it and found a FAQ on Worldmarks site, it might have been old? It said 90 days. It's hard to make a decision when only members can access all the policies...

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Perhaps that is correct and I've just had luck on my side with the shorter reservations. I always book a few months out. I do use the wait list, but I haven't had any disappointments with booking shorter stays.


EDIT TO ADD: I just tested it by booking a 3 night stay the last weekend in March. The room was available for longer than 7 days and it let me book it for 3 nights - at least it took me all the way to the page where it wanted payment. Since I am not sure I want this, I didn't pay.

It's also letting me book a 2 night stay in June even though there are 6 nights available.

Hbushey said:

Thanks, is there a way or market to rent from other owners?

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Owners are allowed to transfer to each other. I never got clarity on exactly how that works. I would guess it counts as one of your 2 free transactions per year and that the rented in points would keep their same home club preference.
I don't know how you'd market that, other than to post a points wanted request in the marketplace.

I can't seem to find the rules/instructions on the website, but it is most likely there somewhere.

EDIT: Found it and some other stuff that may help you.

"Sharing

Any club member can transfer some or all of his or her points to another club member . This is called "sharing" points. Sharing is the only way that anyone else can use your points (except for points you transfer to the Association, the developer or Shell Vacations Club). There are several rules about sharing to keep in mind:

A. You can only share points to make a reservation in a particular year. You cannot use points sharing to transfer points permanently. Of course, this does not limit your ability to transfer your points and membership to someone else as described in your membership agreement.

B. The member who is sharing his or her points (called the "sharing member") must mail or fax written notice to the club. The notice must state (i) to whom the points are transferred (called the "receiving member"), (ii) how many points are being transferred (called the "shared points"), and (iii) the use year to which the shared points relate. The notice must be received by Shell Vacations Club within 14 days after the member requests a reservation. Shell Vacations Club will not confirm a reservation request using shared points unless it receives the written notice.

C. The receiving member may only use the shared points to reserve a vacation period during the use year of the sharing member to which the shared points relate.

D. There is no separate transaction fee for sharing points.

E. If you cancel a reservation made with shared points, any points refunded will be returned to the sharing member's points account (up to the full number of shared points). Any points to be refunded after that will be returned to the receiving member's points account, subject to any cancellation policy of the club.



Renting

In some cases you may be able to rent additional points from Shell Vacations Club. This is called "renting" points and it is governed by these rules.

A. You cannot rent points more than sixty (60) days before the check-in day of a use period.

B. At any given time, Shell Vacations Club may not have any points to rent or it may choose not to rent any points it may have.

C. Shell Vacations Club will set the price for renting points and may change the price from time to time. Payment by credit card will be required for renting points.

D. Shell Vacations Club may set other conditions for renting points. For example, if you rent points but decide not to use them, you may be entitled to a refund subject to the Shell Vacations Club cancellation policy.

E. Rental Pricing
EFFECTIVE: 2/10/03
Price Per Point (USD)

< 2,000 = $0.25/pt
2,000-3,450 = $0.23/pt
3,500-4,950 = $0.21/pt
5,000-7,450 = $0.19/pt
7,500-19,950 = $0.18/pt
20,000-29,950 = $0.17/pt
>30,000=$0.165/pt"


here's a link to a great info thread and while it is old, most of the info is current. http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44941
The main difference is that Shell will trade in II now and not RCI like it says in the thread.

What you looked at is old information. Through Worldmark you can book less than 7 days at 10 months in ANY SEASON and you can rent in points any time you want. There is no charge to rent in points other than paying the person you got them from and you can rent in as many and as often as you like. You can also use them just as you would your own points. You can split them into multiple reservations and you can rent in house keeping tokens too as long as you rent in 5000 credits with each token. So if the credits you rented in do not expire for 2 years (they were just awarded this month) then you have 2 years to make your reservation and you have an additional year to use that reservation. In other words you just need to make the reservation before they expire and that reservation can be anytime in that expression year.

itschoice said:

What you looked at is old information. Through Worldmark you can book less than 7 days at 10 months in ANY SEASON and you can rent in points any time you want. There is no charge to rent in points other than paying the person you got them from and you can rent in as many and as often as you like. You can also use them just as you would your own points. You can split them into multiple reservations and you can rent in house keeping tokens too as long as you rent in 5000 credits with each token. So if the credits you rented in do not expire for 2 years (they were just awarded this month) then you have 2 years to make your reservation and you have an additional year to use that reservation. In other words you just need to make the reservation before they expire and that reservation can be anytime in that expression year.

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Oh my, now my mind has changed again...
Good thing I didn't commit to anything yet! The only thing pushing me to shell was the booking window.

Thanks

I don't own Shell so I can't comment but I do love my Worldmark. If you have any other question just let us know. I think you will be happy with Worldmark. Let us know when you buy. We can help to get you off your feet making your fist reservations. What size account are you looking to get? And when and where do you want your first reservations?

itschoice said:

I don't own Shell so I can't comment but I do love my Worldmark. If you have any other question just let us know. I think you will be happy with Worldmark. Let us know when you buy. We can help to get you off your feet making your fist reservations. What size account are you looking to get? And when and where do you want your first reservations?

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I'm thinking either 7000 or 10000 so I can get the MAX number out of my Maintenance Fees. I'm looking mostly to the California resorts. I think my first reservations would be to wherever I can get a short stay. If I end up closing near the 13 month window for reserving a week in Hawaii over Spring break, I'll do that instead. If I have a loaded contract I should be able to pull that off. From what I've read I'll need to watch closely and possibly book some throw away days in Indio.

Thanks!