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Buying Marriot via Resale

Asia2000

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We are about to make an offer on a Marriott Vacation Club deeded week via resale broker. What, if any, are the issues we may face going forward, knowing that MVC has converted to a point system?
dw

The point system is optional and the number of Marriott deeds involved in the points system appears to be somewhat low, although growing (not sure at what speed).

The only concern in the long term future is that Marriott will sell all of the points as well as convert existing qualified owners to points, making it more difficult to trade your week to another Marriott resort. However, as a resale owner, not in the points program (Marriott Destinations Club), you are guaranteed to get a week in the time period that you buy, but, it may not be the most optimal week based on demand. Also, if you like to trade into resorts that are not Marriott, everything is still the same as the cost for doing this with points is not encouraging (based on the amount of points required).

I'm of the opinion that when Marriott sells roughly 50% of their points to new owners, that they will begin opening new properties and thereby adding more points to the system. Nobody wants to buy into a "sold-out" system where it is difficult to get what you want.

So, to answer your question, I would say no. Keep in mind that the cost of Marriott deeded weeks have gone down in the past 6 months. Make sure you are paying the right price (E-bay is a good barometer although do not expect to get an e-bay price from a classified ad).

In the Marriott points system, they place a very high value on "the view". If you are buying a property where the view is specified in the deed, it would be a good idea to go for "the view", just in case Marriott allows you shift over to points in the future (and of course, only if you want to). Your unit will have greater value in the points system. Today, in II, the view seemingly does not matter, but I suspect that this could change.

Buy a season and resort that you want to use. Then if every once in a while, you want to trade and it does trade, then that is an added bonus. If you are buying a unit to trade, you would probably be best to buy a resort in the peak season. Yes, there are 1000s of examples where someone took a gold/blue/low season week and upgraded greatly, but, I would not buy on that premise. Go platinum and a resort you want to go to often.

If you do not mind sharing or if you want to PM me, let me know what you are thinking of buying and I'll give you an opinion on a good price.
 
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m61376

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Asia's advice above is sound. The most important thing is to buy where you'd like to visit many, if not most, years, and during the timeframe you'd like to go. Think about the future- if you have young kids, remember that school vacations will be an issue in the near future if not already.

IMHO there will continue to be many week owners who continue to trade in weeks, whether or not they join the DC, so I believe there will continue to be a lot of Marriott inventory in II. The only question is whether Marriott will trade weeks (not points) internally before making the deposit to II. I was told they would by a sales manager but that all week trades would continue through II by customer advocacy. Assuming all week trades continue through II, then I think business will continue as usual. Keep in mind that Marriott still needs our weeks to fulfill point requests, so esp. high demand weeks will still trade well. It may be that we see a benefit from "request first" deposits in the future, since it would provide an additional incentive to get our match so as to get our week for use, but that's merely my speculation.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, over the next few years, you see a limited time "special promotion" where resale weeks are invited to join the DC, esp. if they need to bump up their numbers. It may be tied into a points purchase, akin to the Starwood model. But of course that's all speculation.

Just make sure you are getting a good price and then just look forward to planning great trips! Welcome to Tug, btw :wave:
 

KathyPet

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I am sticking with the most valuable piece of advice I can give you which is BUY WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. That advice is still good whether you want to buy a unit resale or buy from Marriott in the new points system.

If you purchase a resale unit you are guaranteed of getting a week in your season. You can go onto the MVCI site a year in advance to book your week. Your week is deeded so once you buy it it is yours and the price cannot be raised on you. Y9u can still trade your week through Interval International.

If you buy through Marriott into the points program there are no guarantees. There is no home week advantage at a particular resort. You may never get one of your top choices using points unlike having a week guaranteed at your home resort. There is also no guarantee that even if you do purchase the # of points you need to get the resort you want, the # of bedrooms, the season and view you want now that Marriott will not raise the # of points that you need in the future which would then require that you purchase more points to get what you originally bought into.
 

classiclincoln

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Nothing more to add about buying resale except enjoy your weeks!! However, if you are using Holiday Resale (or Holiday Group, Holiday whatever they are now calling themselves) out of Seattle, WA, run away! Don't use them at all for anything. Horrible company, told me it would take 5 months to transfer a unit to me that I bought and it took almost 7. No communications, very difficult to deal with. It's my understanding (from someone who worked there that is no longer there) that they may be having financial problems. It looks to me that they're taking my $$ and using it to finish someone else's transfer, and I have to wait until the sell another property to get the $$ to finish mine.

Can't comment on other companies, but you may want to post the name to find out if anyone else used that company.
 

nazclk

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I thought after June 30 you could not convert a resale week to points. Have they opened it up again??
 

m61376

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I thought after June 30 you could not convert a resale week to points. Have they opened it up again??
No, you are right. But a resale week can be used just like it always was- reserving at one's home resort or trading through II.
 

sasi2010

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Asia's advice above is sound. The most important thing is to buy where you'd like to visit many, if not most, years, and during the timeframe you'd like to go. Think about the future- if you have young kids, remember that school vacations will be an issue in the near future if not already.

IMHO there will continue to be many week owners who continue to trade in weeks, whether or not they join the DC, so I believe there will continue to be a lot of Marriott inventory in II. The only question is whether Marriott will trade weeks (not points) internally before making the deposit to II. I was told they would by a sales manager but that all week trades would continue through II by customer advocacy. Assuming all week trades continue through II, then I think business will continue as usual. Keep in mind that Marriott still needs our weeks to fulfill point requests, so esp. high demand weeks will still trade well. It may be that we see a benefit from "request first" deposits in the future, since it would provide an additional incentive to get our match so as to get our week for use, but that's merely my speculation.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if, over the next few years, you see a limited time "special promotion" where resale weeks are invited to join the DC, esp. if they need to bump up their numbers. It may be tied into a points purchase, akin to the Starwood model. But of course that's all speculation.

Just make sure you are getting a good price and then just look forward to planning great trips! Welcome to Tug, btw :wave:

really its honest..
and useful advice..thankyou for it..
 

Lawlar

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Rent Don't Buy

I think the advice given on this thread is really good. I would add that one should consider renting rather than buying a timeshare. You can often rent a week for less than the yearly maintenance fees. Also, if you buy a TS you are locking yourself into one vacation option. Better to have the flexibility of going where you want each year and looking for that year's best bargains.
 

m61376

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I think the advice given on this thread is really good. I would add that one should consider renting rather than buying a timeshare. You can often rent a week for less than the yearly maintenance fees. Also, if you buy a TS you are locking yourself into one vacation option. Better to have the flexibility of going where you want each year and looking for that year's best bargains.
There have been many discussions about this. Renting gives you utmost flexibility with no up front costs. It also leaves you at the whim of the market (which could be good or bad depending on the economy) and having to search and negotiate to secure a good deal (with some uncertainty because you are dealing with strangers). Being tied in has its negatives- as you pointed out, it limits options- but on the flip side, if you have it you will use it, and there are many, many owners who will freely admit they'd be less likely to take the trip, whether due to financial outlays, time, work schedules, not bothering to make plans, etc., if they didn't own a week that they didn't want to waste. So it is not just a monetary decision.
 

tombo

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I think the advice given on this thread is really good. I would add that one should consider renting rather than buying a timeshare. You can often rent a week for less than the yearly maintenance fees. Also, if you buy a TS you are locking yourself into one vacation option. Better to have the flexibility of going where you want each year and looking for that year's best bargains.

I agree. As an owner of too many timeshares, the current situation favors renting over owning. When I purchased all of my weeks I could easily get double my MF's renting out any week I owned or I sold the week. I created a portfolio where i could travel 5 or 6 weeks a year paid for by my other rentals. Now thanks to the economy and ever escalating MF's many of my weeks aren't even renting for MF's.Why own when the renters get your week cheaper than you? Next to you at the pool will be many renters who are staying there cheaper than the owners. Just look at the wonderful resorts available on last minute rentals here on TUG for MF's or less and the 10,000's of weeks available for rent for MF's or less on Redweek.

The MF's at Marriott's (and most timeshares) are increasing at double digits while rental rates are remaining stagnant or dropping. At the current rate the MF costs for owners will be much higher at most resorts than what they wil be able to rent their weeks out for. The lack of cost containment with ever escalating MF's is killing timeshares worse than any other single factor. Many resorts that were $700 a year in MF's a few years ago are $1100 to $1500 now with no end in sight. As MF's keep rising faster than rental rate you will possibly own a white elephant where you pay more to stay each year than it is worth to a renter or even yourself as an owner. As the MF's rise, the resale prices and number of interested buyers drop. You are obligated to pay whatever they rise to or sell if you can find a buyer. At current rates many resorts could charge over $2000 a year in annual MF's in a short time for resorts where you can easily rent a week for $1000 or less. Not a good time to be an owner.

When you factor in the outlay to purchase a week and the inevitable future assessments to renovate, renting is the better way to go in most cases. If you need a particular resort/week each and every year and the MF's at that resort are considerably cheaper than what you can rent a week for, perhaps in that case it would be beneficial for you to become an owner. Other than that rare situation I suggest you RENT for what you would pay in MF's (or less) when and where you want to go, save the purchase price, save the obligation to go to your home resort each year (or the time and effort required to trade it for somewhere you want to go), save the high dollar assessments that WILL come, and be able to decide where you want to go a couple of months or weeks in advanceof your vacation rather than having to plan your trips a year in advance where so many things can change before your departure date. Go on vacation when and where you want each year, not where you are obligated to go because you are financially committed for life, or until you sell.

As Lawlar said, be a renter, don't buy in this market and/or economy.
 
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ada903

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It really depends on your ability to maximize your usage, which is a function of where and when you plan to travel, and how flexible your are.

Owning can be good in two ways - owning to use, and owning to exchange (the latter part being very tricky).

Owning to use may be the best option for some folks. If for example you plan to travel to Atlantis every summer, or at Xmas to St Thomas or Maui, and are less flexible, it is a great idea to own rather than rent. Especially when you travel peak season to demanded destinations, and you must get plane tickets at the 331 day mark, then owning is best.

For me, I maximize ownership by exchanging - I own a few good brand two bedroom lockoffs, which I split into two sides and exchange for Hawaii Marriotts and Westins. I travel low season and I can take last minute deals as much as one week prior to check-in date, which sometimes puts me into peak season nice units. It makes my cost for a Hawaii two bedroom at Marriott around $100, considering maintenance fees, the lock off price, exchange fees, and II fees. For me it is worth it. I also own weeks that, should exchange opportunities go away (I doubt that, despite all the Marriott / II changes), I will continue to use at the home resort.

So you can maximize your ownership - whether using or exchanging - depending on your goals. But you do have to be careful about the danger of special assessment fees and maintenance fee increases - do your research and understand this is part of the process.
 
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tombo

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.

For me, I maximize ownership by exchanging - I own a few good brand two bedroom lockoffs, which I split into two sides and exchange for Hawaii Marriotts and Westins. I travel low season and I can take last minute deals as much as one week prior to check-in date, which sometimes puts me into peak season nice units.

.

I am glad exchanging works for you, but buying to exchange is the worst reason to buy in most cases. The only reason to buy IMO is if you want to go to that resort each and every year (with an occassional exception) and if the MF's are MUCH cheaper than you can rent the week form a current owner.

If someone can travel last minute and travel low season, the rental prices are often almost nothing, so why exchange last minute for limited last minute inventory when there is last minute inventory rented for fire sale prices all over the world every month? I can't tell you how many Marriott's, 4 seasons, hyatts, etc I have seen available for $500 a week or less 30 to 60 days prior to check in here on TUG and on redweek in the last year.

Right now here on TUG there is a Marriott Newport Coast Villas last week of September for $700 for the whole week along with many more similar offers. In the last few weeks on TUG there have been listed (many still are available) a Worldmark Anaheim $575 for the week, Hyatt Siesta Keys $700, Wyndham Kona hawaiian Village 2 bed October week $499, Maui 2 bed $700, Wyndham bonnet Creek 4 bed room presidential week $500, Hyatt Pinon Point 2 bed week $500, 2 bed Ocean front Marriott oceana Palms for $600, HGVC Hawaiian Village week for $700, Marriott Ko'Olina 2 bed week for $700, etc, etc, etc. Some of these owners will take less if asked. All of the above are renting for less than the MF's.

Why own? If you are flexible and can travel last minute the rental prices are yours to choose. Look for the best rental deal you can find on TUG, Redweek, Myresortnetwork, etc on a location/resort you want to visit and go there next month. Then look for the best deal you can find at a different location/resort and go there the next month. You could travel a week or more each and every month staying at very nice resorts for $100 or less a night easily, and never stay at the same place twice. No assessments, no MF increases to sweat, no worry about whether you can get a location you want. Simply pick where you want to go and find the cheapest price you can. I have seen many weeks rent for $500 or less with MF's of $1200 or more. It is a rare resort that you can't rent for MF's or less if you look around a little, and even at those resorts who command rental rates of double the MF's are usually during peak times (ski season, summer on the beach, etc).

To the OP, rent don't buy unless it is a resort you want to go to each and every year with MF's lower than you can rent a week for. Sure rental prices might rise in the future, but they might not. The only thing I can assure you is that if you do buy that your MF's will increase EVERY year at a Marriott resort (and at almost all other resorts), and you WILL eventually pay an assessment at your resort. Renters just look for the best deal for where they want to vacation when they want to go. Owners sweat MF increases, assessments, having their resort implement owner unfrendly practices( like Marriott changing weeks to points), reservation windows (remembering to reserve at 8am the first day you can or get locked out of getting the week you need until the next year), storm damage to your resort (hurricanes, oil spills, tornadoes, etc), and limited exchange availability when you want to go somewhere other than where you own. As I said now is the time to be a renter IMO.
 
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ada903

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I find it more convenient and I find a lot more options when booking a week myself rather than renting. It depends on personal preference I guess. You won't find a two bedroom at Lahaina and Napili Villas, even last minute from an owner, for $700, it's highly unlikely. In the past two weeks I have seen two bedrooms for September and October in the Lahaina towers available for exchange in II, some as far out as one or two months, with the Marriott preference. I also like booking it, and having 24 hours to search plane tickets and decide if to keep it or cancel it with no penalty, and I don't have to go through the hassle of potential scammers - get a rental agreement, make sure they own the week and they paid their fees, send payments over, etc. When you vacation four-eight weeks a year it's too much hassle to go through. Like I said, we did rent last minutes as well from owners, and have exchanged with other owners as well, but I prefer owning as the major avenue. Let's not forget that owning at least one week also gives you access to II getaways, and I think if you saw the deals we booked using getaways through II you would rub your eyes. We booked some getaway deals one year in advance, at 30%-40% of the owner's maintenance fees, in peak seasons and peak resorts. Rare deals, but sufficient for us to love our II membership benefit. But hey, that's just my opinion. Renting might work just as well in this depressed market. But let me emphasize too that some of these greal deal last minute rentals are II bookings, which folks are not allowed to rent. I occasionally picked up some of these myself from folks who were desperate to get rid of them because they were final exchanges or getaways and they could not change the dates on them, so they had to get rid of them. But you are taking a risk on those kinds of bookings.
 
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tombo

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I find it more convenient and I find a lot more options when booking a week myself rather than renting. It depends on personal preference I guess. You won't find a two bedroom at Lahaina and Napili Villas, even last minute from an owner, for $700, it's highly unlikely. In the past two weeks I have seen two bedrooms for September and October in the Lahaina towers available for exchange in II, some as far out as one or two months, with the Marriott preference. I also like booking it, and having 24 hours to search plane tickets and decide if to keep it or cancel it with no penalty, and I don't have to go through the hassle of potential scammers - get a rental agreement, make sure they own the week and they paid their fees, send payments over, etc. When you vacation four-eight weeks a year it's too much hassle to go through. Like I said, we did rent last minutes as well from owners, and have exchanged with other owners as well, but I prefer owning as the major avenue. Let's not forget that owning at least one week also gives you access to II getaways, and I think if you saw the deals we booked using getaways through II you would rub your eyes. We booked some getaway deals one year in advance, at 30%-40% of the owner's maintenance fees, in peak seasons and peak resorts. Rare deals, but sufficient for us to love our II membership benefit. But hey, that's just my opinion. Renting might work just as well in this depressed market. But let me emphasize too that some of these greal deal last minute rentals are II bookings, which folks are not allowed to rent. I occasionally picked up some of these myself from folks who were desperate to get rid of them because they were final exchanges or getaways and they could not change the dates on them, so they had to get rid of them. But you are taking a risk on those kinds of bookings.

I agree that owning one week giving you access to II is a smart move to get access to getaways. However II has a rental arm (RCI does too) where you can rent for about as cheaply as being a member without joining or owning a week (Iforget the name of their rental company but someone here will know it). I also understand some of the fears of renting from others, but with a little due diligence (lke verifying with the resort that the owner has the ability to rent to you, using paypal, etc), you can feel pretty safe. I also get the renter's home work and cell numbers and call to make sure they are good numbers. Also calling the renter at work and then verifying the number is the business they claim using internet directory assistance helps too.

As far as Maui Ocean club availability:
here is an ocean view week for $800
http://www.redweek.com/posting/R460312
a garden view week for $800
http://www.redweek.com/posting/R458741
a 2 bed 2 bat garden view for $799
http://www.redweek.com/posting/R456675
a November ocean view for $900
http://www.redweek.com/posting/R448383

As far as the Napili Villas:
a studio recently rented for $600 for 9-11 to 9-18 (top ad listed as rental)
http://www.redweek.com/resort/P5799-marriotts-maui-ocean-club-napili-villas
2 bed 2 bath available for mid October for $2000 asking price
http://www.redweek.com/posting/R436803

So even using one of the hottest resorts/locations anywhere as an example (Marriott Maui), you can easily rent for cheaper than MF's. If one was a little flexible (not limiting travel to a Marriott) you can stay in a nice Maui resort for even cheaper.

I am not denying that owning weeks has some advantages. I own over 20 different weeks and I still have weeks that rent for considerably more than my MF's. I still enjoy knowing that I can get the week I want at the resort I want each and every year because I own there. I still make exchanges that I feel are financially beneficial to me. In spite of the benefits of being an owner, if I could get half the money I spent on my 20 weeks (all bought resale) returned to me and become a renter, I would do it in a heartbeat. When I bought my weeks the costs savings of being an owner and the rental income justified the purchases. I no longer feel that is the case and I will be selling most of my weeks in the next year (mostly for losses even though all were purchased resale). I doubt i will ever be totally timeshare free, but I will get down to where I only own a few I want to use each and every year for personal use.

So my personal advice to the OP is that if I currently owned zero timeshares knowing what I know about the current timeshare trends (high owner default rates, increasing MF's, developer's looking to make more money on current owners since they can't sell new owners, assessments, exchange problems, etc)i, I would only buy one or 2 tmeshares MAXIMUM at a resort(s) I want to visit EVERY YEAR which has maintained low MF's over a long term. Having said that I might not buy any if I was actually timeshare free. I have enjoyed them so much through the years that my sentimental side influences my rational business thoughts. My business side tells me that owning none would actually be the best move. The reality of owning a timeshare is that you really don't own anything but the right to stay there annually, and the obligation to pay whatever amount the resort decides to bill you each year.
 
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ada903

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I totally see your points, thanks for the great discussion on this - just one point - the websites that sell II getaway inventory like condodirect.com have limited II inventory - only the bottom resorts and seasons. You need the membership to access the better stuff.
 

kjd

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You shouldn't confuse the present advantage of renting with the long-term advantages of ownership. They are separate and totally distinct considerations. I agree that the present market circumstances may favor renting over owning. Why should someone buy a depreciating asset?

Like other purchases we make there is always a time to buy and a time not to. The same things can be said about renting vs owning when obtaining automobiles, housing, furniture, office space, business equipment, telephones, etc. Most of these types of cost comparisons are related to the market value for such items. Many times the decision is to rent or lease rather than to buy. There's nothing wrong with that.

For others the comparison will be made on the value of convenience. That could lead to someone concluding that now is a good time to buy a timeshare given the present market conditions. Resale prices are at record lows and the selection of good weeks at desirable properties is large. In these instances yearly maintenance fees are only a secondary consideration. And, there's nothing wrong with that either.

I learned a long time ago that people will buy anything. The salesman who who sold refrigerators to Eskimos and then appeared on the NBC Tonight Show comes to mind. A deal doesn't have to make sense to anyone else but the buyer and/or the seller.
 

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Just wondering...if an enrolled owner purchases a Marriott resale now, can that resale be included/exchanged in the "new (corporate)" II account, or does the owner have to maintain a separate II account for the resale unit? Further, would any additional fees (other than the $165/$199 Marriott fee) be applicable for locking off, and/or changing/cancelling reservations, and if the "new" II account is usable for this resale, for exchanging to other Marriott resorts? :ponder: :shrug:
 

dioxide45

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Just wondering...if an enrolled owner purchases a Marriott resale now, can that resale be included/exchanged in the "new (corporate)" II account, or does the owner have to maintain a separate II account for the resale unit? Further, would any additional fees (other than the $165/$199 Marriott fee) be applicable for locking off, and/or changing/cancelling reservations, and if the "new" II account is usable for this resale, for exchanging to other Marriott resorts? :ponder: :shrug:

That non enrolled week would be a full fee week. It couldn't be in the corporate account, and would also have to pay the unblended fees.
 
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