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[Poll added - see post 1] Can resorts increase the VALUE of their product???

How much would you pay for an elite AI mega-resort being built in your favorite area?


  • Total voters
    97

prickler

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IMHO the monetary value of a product is what you can sell it for. The car is a great analogy. Just because you bought a new car from the dealer right off the lot for $25,000 doesn't mean it's worth that much when you get it home.

If the developer can sell you a timeshare interval for $25,000 than that is it's monetary value to the developer. If you can sell that same interval for $1, than that is it's monetary value to you.

If a developer makes a retail interval more valuable or coveted than a resale interval, than the monetary value of said interval is worth even less after the initial sale.

Sally, you basically want to make the timeshare that you own worthless on the open market. Sure if you keep it, use it, and enjoy it for the rest of your life then there is probably no loss on your part. I however think the majority of people would care and have second thoughts about purchasing "the more valuable retail timeshare" with "NO" residual value.
 

John Cummings

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But wouldn't it be fun to sit around at happy hour at one of the resorts with Sally, Cindy, John, Denise, and Gordon and just listen to the discussion.

I would gladly buy the wine.

Mike

I would have to bow out on that one. I don't drink adult beverages nor meet with strangers.
 

John Cummings

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There is a very fundamental difference between a home and a timeshare. Nobody needs a timeshare. It is merely a vacation option. On the other hand everybody needs a place to live so you have to either buy a home or rent it. A timeshare is not a real estate investment.
 

sally13

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phew!!! I am back..

still red in the face,but I can not come to grips with some tug rules (or interpertation of rules)...I will try to dance the delicate dance that allows me to post thoughts(sometimes complex and needing SOME leeway)..I am not a typist and very disadvantaged to some others with better skill,so I would like SOME leeway on subject matter please.!!!.otherwise I must skidaddle,as the strictness of this forum is just too much(although some would find that a blessing I Am sure)

there ... a paragraph(you win big D)

The point of this thread is how to make retail timeshares compete with resale.I think ...bang for your buck,prices are fine.You get a fair amount of product for $$$$ spent ,even spending 20 k or so to (get in)..This I know from all the satisfied owner testimonials that cover most T.S. boards..If someone is complaining and spent 12 or 13k on that 20k unit...well there just a complainer.

[Deleted]

similarly,if a large entity or group purchased all the loose timeshare units the supply overhang would be eliminated...creating demand.This is one way to skin these cats that WOULD work.

Do not try to tell me that supply in housing or timeshares is over built.This is simply..simple thinking.Talented...skilled people living in crappy apartments or on the street??Yes anyone with an ounce of smarts deserves to live in a house somewhere..This is good for the society .Affordability is not out of whack it is wages that are the problem ,because of outsourcing.

Timeshares are suffering mainly because of lack of marketing,and general ignorance,not oversupply.How many people in this world spend $150. to $450. a night on a 7 day to 1 month long vacation in a hotel unit?..PLENTY..Hotels are overbuilt not timeshares.Would these folks not want to stay in a luxury resort? You bet they would..

zero interest loans on the upfront timeshare charges could be utilized..you see there are many ways out of this mess, just no overall resolve..

One thing for sure tho $1. ebay deals need to be a thing of the past!!
 
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JMAESD84

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I've posted several times in the past my opinion that resorts need to deliver VALUE. This VALUE PROPOSITION is very important for the stability of the resort as an ongoing entity.

Adding "value" that's lost upon the transfer of ownership, isn't value at all, it's just a sales perk that I'm sure you'll be grossly overpaying for.
 

e.bram

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John and his ilk as board members are the problem and not the solution. Lower the MFs to be on par with whole ownership and the resale prices will soar.
Honest , competent(and less layers)management will solve the problem.
 
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sally13

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prickler..

good point bringing up residual value .If this was used industry wide such as in the Royals resorts..there would be no ebay foreclosure anchors killing timeshare.
 

sally13

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ebram..

fees are low enough as is...7to 900 bucks a week for a unit that retails off the street for 400 a night???what do want??also what John does is essential..ever see a poorly run boards resort??
 

night0wl

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I have to ask...what allowed a developer to charge $20, $30, or $40k for a product retail when it was going for a fraction of that resale? The simple answer is *CREDIT*. One could always get a timeshare loan from a developer, but nearly NEVER on the reale market. Hence, prices were inflated. Sally - you nailed it on the head, offer 0% financing and yes, the world will be like 2005 all over again. Prices will go up across the board!

The problem is, who is ever going to offer that type of financing again in a world of 9-10% unemployment? Also, why would banks ever enter the market again after taking their licks on time share financing already? Credit/securitization of mortgage debt (timeshares included) is moribound...the only thing being issued is government paper (FHA, Fannie, Freddie loans) so good luck financing that timeshare purchase since no government entity backs/buys those loans securitized. Those pigs tranches went to the open market for suckers like pension funds and Scandanavian townships to buy up....and thats not happening anymore.

So, like everything when the "grease" of the gears of a machine dries up...everything collapses and falls in on itself. Credit is/was the lifeblood of the timeshare industry. Without it, things will revert to cash prices, meaning things will inevitably reflect their REAL UNINFLATED value.

When I bought my HGVC buy last year, you bet your tookus I used eBay to negotiate a price...and I paid cash.

If someone can find a way to ensure timeshare loans/mortgages dont end up in default an obscenely high amount of time, then I'm sure 0% loans will come out and the gears will get greased again.
 

rickandcindy23

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John and his ilk as board members are the problem and not the solution. Lower the MFs to be on par with whole ownership and the resale prices will soar.
Honest , competent(and less layers)management will solve the problem.
This is not a good idea. Leaving it up to management to decide everything? Developers like to keep control, and that's just bad for owners.
 

sally13

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night owl..

0% could be offered by a developer ,invester since selling right to use contracts is lucrative in itself and would only be needed to clear the glut ..thus bringing back price stability..coupled with timeshare education and exposure examples,you have a whole new playing field.....DRIVE UP THE PRICE OF RESALES,through eliminating supply,new rules of transfer,improving unit ammenities and furnishings(if your unit does not have granite countertops and top fixtures it should not even BE a timeshare)
 

timeos2

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Exactly what gets cut? TV Service, Phones, how about housekeeping?

John and his ilk as board members are the problem and not the solution. Lower the MFs to be on par with whole ownership and the resale prices will soar.
Honest , competent(and less layers)management will solve the problem.

And have you ever actually looked at a budget for a timeshare? Whenever we do (at least annually for the whole package - more for the operations during the year) we use zero base budgeting and look at every line. Would you prefer cleaning every other guest, no towels, fewer front desk employees (long lines), no supplies in the unit - it goes on. What are you as an owner/giuest willing to do without to save $5 -$10 per week? Anything more and you are cutting more as nothing is free. If not done carefully, which includes realistic views of bad debt to be covered, you can quickly find a resort that goes negative before the new year and dips into the next years funds to survive. A few years of that and suddenly it finds its out of money in June or July. It happened to us under Developer Management at one resort and cost us a $350 Special Assessment just to keep the doors open!

When I see a new candidate pledge to "lower fees" (or taxes) I pay little attention unless they also give specifics as to what exactly they plan to cut. Otherwise it's empty rhetoric from someone with no idea where the true costs are. When people say "cut" they mean the things YOU want - not them. Those things must not be touched while those they don't care about are fair game. Getting all to agree is tough and it takes a strong Board to be realistic and present a true budget to owners. "Free" Internet comes to mind. Someone pays. Is it better to charge those that use it or include it in the fees like a telephone? So far the owners seem split and happy with a reasonable price for the service vs another $10 in unavoidable fees. That may change at some point - but not yet.

If the Board can show the money is well spent (usually in resort maintenance, upgrades and renovations) then they get support. If not - vote them out! That's your right and one developer Boards tend to squash as they don't want to rally compete they just want the fees & return on investment regardless of cost to owners. An independent Board & Management answers to YOU the owner. I know which one I prefer.
 

e.bram

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John:
$26,000.00/yr to maintain a small(800sf) 1 Br. apt. at the Cove w/o a kitchen seems a little steep. Don't you think?
 

Carolinian

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This is not a good idea. Leaving it up to management to decide everything? Developers like to keep control, and that's just bad for owners.

The best arrangement for m/f's is to let the membership vote on them at the annual meeting. Several resorts I have owned at do that.
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
Secret Ballot? Or Show Of Hands?

The best arrangement for m/f's is to let the membership vote on them at the annual meeting. Several resorts I have owned at do that.
How do they get a quorum to show up in person ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

sally13

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grease to get the machine working again..

night owl correctly pointed out ONE of the factors of WHY timeshares are in the dumper.(.Credit or the lack of it)..As in housing mortgage loans ... new rules of needing extreme creditworthiness are now in place ,to qualify. Even with historicly low rates ,few new mortgages are being granted...tell me why does a bank need to extract so much interest on a 30 year loan??After huge upfront fees the cost of borrowing is still absurd..Even at the low 5 to 8% low interest rates.The present structure of a mortgage should be reconfigured to help a borrower build equity faster,thus giving her or him reason to stay in the game..Banks would still make plenty of $$$..............This loan talk is for almost anything real that one can touch because of the physical makeup and cost of duplication...These types of product SHOULD by all fairness hold monetary value.

The old rule of housing was that it was always a solid investment because it rarely back tracked for long and was a good hedge on ongoing inflation..Yes ,the banks screwed up by giving loans to anyone without proper income verification.But in the end does that mean housing will always be a poor investment??Like John said people will always need a place to live..Bricks .cement, copper, wood,labor, ect. have all gone into the making of a home (or a timeshare)for that matter.Are these things free presently??commodities are at all time highs..So why are foreclosures being purchased for almost nothing??Demand..demand is down because of jobs, confidence,and basicly faith in tomorrow..

Will this change?? to save the monetery VALUE of both homes and Timeshares??and what mechanism will be the catalist for that change??
 
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ran-ran

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Getting the resort to be able to charge a premium for units

My two cents worth:

Are the HOA's able to add a ROFR if they don't currently have one? They should also allow owners to sign over their units back to the HOA. However, this is under the assumption that they have an active sales staff or management team that is able to promote the units for sale. Why don't they attempt to purchase these units back and have them resold at the resort?

I know that the FLBR, which I own, foreclosed on all of the non-paying members and are currently offering the units that were taken back for sale. They set the price at $1,500 or you could pay $250 for the right to use for the next three years and if you decide to purchase, the cost is just $1,250 at the end of the three years.
Both parties win here, the purchaser gets a unit for use over the next three years for the cost of maintenance fee and the resort collects the maintenance fee and hopefully a home for the unit.

Another issue that has been brought up is that maintenance fees are possibly too high. It is odd that renters/visitors can usually rent the units for less than the cost of the annual maintenance fee. This is clearly an issue IMO. Doesn't it make more sense for the owners to pay less than non-owners? If so, how do you attract others to the resort to pay more?
Maybe the resort offers direct rentals for the owners and share the proceeds mutually?

I am not sure off all of the answers, but owners should feel they are receiving something, like a discount for owning instead of seeing non-owners getting the same benefits for less money. The solution has to be getting the resort to be able to charge a premium for their product. This doesn't happen with fewer services and amenities.

Could the resort offer daily stays for units not being used? Maybe they could work out a deal with website companies like hotels.com to fill the empty rooms? I mean, how often do you see empty units when you are visiting your timeshare? It always feel like the resort is half-full at best whenever and wherever I have stayed, this has got to be a problem and an opportunity for revenue. I understand that the owners don't have to visit, but why not keep a full house from visitors bringing in additional revenue?
 

ran-ran

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Credit solution

I believe FREE financing is a myth. It is my understanding that the even when you purchase something with FREE / 0% interest the actual interest charge, 10% to 30% or more is charged by the person servicing/collecting the payment.
It may say 0% financing, but the person/resort have in many cases agreed to pay or include the financing fee in or as part of the sales price.

For example, the servicing person/company may agree to buy a $5,000 note for $4,000 and collect the $416.67 monthly payments for the next 12 months.
 

sally13

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ran ran...

yes... on better treatment of full or close to full paying retail contract owners...no to hotel.com access...the right to participate in a luxury resort MUST always remain exclusive..thus giving it pricing power..this is the whole problem presently..easy access via ebay

also 0% is a start...lets not get greedy the other way!!
 
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rickandcindy23

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I would have to bow out on that one. I don't drink adult beverages nor meet with strangers.
We are meeting several TUGgers on Kauai yet this month and looking forward to it. I don't consider them strangers, because not only do we have a lot in common, but we have become friends here on TUG. Teepeeca is going to be there, too, and I am so excited to meet him. We have had many private messages back and forth over the years.
 

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You could implement every suggestion on this thread and it wouldn't make anything more than a very marginal bit of difference in resale prices - if any difference at all.

I used to work in the newspaper industry and marvel at the fact that there are still people in that industry trying to come up with "magic bullet" ideas that will increase sales of print newspapers.

The reality, of course, is that there is nothing you can do to significantly increase sales of print newspapers. Nothing. The market has moved on to the Internet and it's never coming back.

It's a similar situation here. Developer prices are so inflated, such a scam, that absolutely nothing is ever going to prop resale prices up in such as way as to allow anyone who purchased at developer prices to recoup a significant amount of their investment.

Could you perhaps raise the resale value from $1 to $1,000? Maybe. But probably not.

The weeks that hold value do so either because people greatly VALUE the underlying time and experience - Marriott ski and beach weeks, high-point Hyatt weeks, holiday weeks - or because their low MFs make them a very effective vacationing or exchanging tool (Worldmark points, which aren't particularly high-priced, but haven't gone to $1 like other weeks).

That's how you hold value. Plain and simple. There are no secrets and there's just about nothing you can do to artificially create value.
 

rickandcindy23

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One thing about timeshare that is different from real estate:

Real estate gets appraised for resale purposes. Timeshare does not get an appraisal, even when new. The price is just an arbitrary number developers pull out of their back pocket.

If you buy a resale timeshare and pay a lot for it, you cannot finance it because there is no appraisal process, and it's generally a high-risk loan. And truly there are companies who will finance, but they don't care WHAT you are buying, they just care about your creditworthiness.

Developers can get anyone to qualify, thus the high interest rates on timeshares.

Think of a world where timeshares needed that appraisal to get financing, whether "new" or "used". Ebay resales for $1 would really hurt the developers, but maybe it would prop up values.

Developers should buy all of the timeshares on ebay to keep others from getting them. It would create a bidding war. They really should just allow deedbacks and put the PCC's out of business.
 

Tia

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We have 9 individually owned condo units ,WUO , in our timeshare HOA. It was written into the condo declaration/bylaws they get amuch much lower % of annual maint. cost. They buy their own furniture, appliances, plates, pay for their own interior costs, no maid service when anyone is looking.

Our WUO have enough combined voting power to currently control the HOA due to ts owner voting apathy :( . The independent management owners hired when ts owners did rally now takes orders from a board elected/supported by WUO votes. Never ending it seems.


John and his ilk as board members are the problem and not the solution. Lower the MFs to be on par with whole ownership and the resale prices will soar.
Honest , competent(and less layers)management will solve the problem.
 

Carolinian

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How do they get a quorum to show up in person ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Like every resort I know of, they depend on proxies. If there were a major budget issue, though, turnout would tend to go up.
 
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