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Owning Vacation Club Points For $6.13 Per Point

jont

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For entry people who like the flexibility of points and want to stay at Marriott resorts, they basically have the following options:

1. buy a resale week from a non Marriott source and hope that someday Marriott lets them enroll that week.
Low cost..limited flexibility

2.Buy Trust points in the amount they need to get the vacations they want.
Big bucks...lots of flexibility

3.Buy the min. amount of points they can and rent the rest they need.
Still expensive... but flexible

4. Buy a bundled package of a week and Trust points.
Big bucks....but flexibility and a degree of security

5.Rent the weeks they want.
you all know the advantages/disadvantages of this

6. Stay home and do nothing.


Now the points program is not for everyone, but Puck's partner made an informed decision and has the financial resources to to accomplish his goal.
God bless him. He now not only has the points and a week, he also has a network of friends who we can buy points from or sell to.
 

Quadmaniac

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Ah, poetic exaggeration (four exclamation marks!). Really though, you wouldn't spend $1 million for those choice weeks, would you?

You don't actually mean priceless, you mean valuable. And in this case, the value added is worth a 75% nightly premium? Personally, I'd be willing to hunt around a bit to save $200 each and every night I stay at a Marriott VC. Maybe you friend would too.

But thanks for scolding me about going off topic. I'm sure there's a TUG rule somewhere ...

I think it is like the situation of someone wanting to buy a Porsche but is extremely happy they gave him some off of his trade in and there is a perceived image of a deal as they did not pay the list price, even though they got some off for their trade in which could have received more if they sold it themselves.

Some find it easier, they got what they want and a deal in their mind. They're happy with the deal, so they walk away with the feeling that they got better than retail.

I made the calculations earlier that his partner would have been way further ahead renting whatever points he needed and could get the same reservations for less than what he put out. It is every unlikely that he will "break even" compared to renting, but he has the pride of ownership.

With owning two OF resale weeks, I think he could have easily got the reservations he was looking for, for a full week (whether he used the full week or not), plus 3 more trades (with lock off) and had $42K in his pocket, but at this stage, his partner is not looking for the best deal, just access to the "club".

That's my take on it. Is that what you or I would do ? Probably not, but there is a market every type of deal. I always buy my cars used and never buy new, but if there weren't people to take the first hit for me, I wouldn't be able to buy it at 60% off a year later:D
 

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good evening....


Quad.... no more exclamation points...

for whatever its worth..when my partner expressed a desire to join the club..I told him to pick some places he wanted to go and purchase some good resale weeks. He wanted to play in points..I presented the bundle plan in contrast to a direct point purchase!!!

When i get back in the game and expand my portfolio, it will be a nice plat ski week!!!! or get a week at moc to hang with greg week 24...
 

puckmanfl

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good evening...

sorry quad

losing track of things....

need a vacation.... off to myc next month..working too hard these days...

off to an education course tomorrow... hopefully refresh my brain....
 

Quadmaniac

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good evening...

sorry quad

losing track of things....

need a vacation.... off to myc next month..working too hard these days...

off to an education course tomorrow... hopefully refresh my brain....

No worries :p
 

jaym

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Here is a copy of an email I received from a MVCI salesman tonight. See the bold (my bolding) below, I find it interesting that they are stating in writing that there is no disadvantage.

As a reminder, incentives are up to 30% larger when purchasing direct through me here at Owner Services rather than buying at one of our resorts due to less overhead.
Remember; “when tomorrow comes, when was the best time to spend quality time with your loved ones – the answer is always yesterday. Which would be today – the present”. Remember if you have children they will seldom remember what they received for holiday gifts, but they will always remember their Family vacations.

Although there is a nugget of truth somewhere in this salesman's quote, it sure sounds like convoluted double-speak....like someone saying, "I think you know that what I really meant to say was not what you thought I said".....:ponder:
 

OldPantry

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I think it is like the situation of someone wanting to buy a Porsche but is extremely happy they gave him some off of his trade in and there is a perceived image of a deal as they did not pay the list price, even though they got some off for their trade in which could have received more if they sold it themselves.

Some find it easier, they got what they want and a deal in their mind. They're happy with the deal, so they walk away with the feeling that they got better than retail.

I made the calculations earlier that his partner would have been way further ahead renting whatever points he needed and could get the same reservations for less than what he put out. It is every unlikely that he will "break even" compared to renting, but he has the pride of ownership.

With owning two OF resale weeks, I think he could have easily got the reservations he was looking for, for a full week (whether he used the full week or not), plus 3 more trades (with lock off) and had $42K in his pocket, but at this stage, his partner is not looking for the best deal, just access to the "club".

That's my take on it. Is that what you or I would do ? Probably not, but there is a market every type of deal. I always buy my cars used and never buy new, but if there weren't people to take the first hit for me, I wouldn't be able to buy it at 60% off a year later:D
Hi!!!!

Boy, you're even more hard-headed than I. I admit to buying new cars only, about one every five years, with a total turnover of ten years. I love that smell, even though it only lasts for about 30 minutes.

Bringing things back to timeshares: I absolutely get things like pride of ownership, priceless memories, and the thrill of exclusivity (well, I get that last one less than the others). But I try to be absolutely ruthless about acknowledging the costs of those things. For people with unlimited resources, convenience and prestige can override any concerns about cost. However, I don't think many of those folks are here in TUG. What most of us share is a desire for affordable luxury.

To bring the ruthless cost discussion back to puckmanfl, his friend, and folks gamboling in the DC world: we've all seen the huge impact of price erosion on traditional timeshare. With prime weeks often selling at at 75% discount to developer prices, a hard-headed analysis would force one to include that discount as a cost. Any business would do that, and a similar reality check is useful for individuals as well. If your $35,000 week is now worth only $8,000, then amortizing that $27,000 loss over the nights spent time-sharing would provide a sobering idea of the real cost of owning that week.
Is the situation any different for points owners? I would say absolutely not. I see DC points advertised on Redweek for $3.65, $7 and $8.33/point. All of these are sharp discounts to developer pricing. All of these are folks willing, eager, even desperate to cash out at some price. A 5000 points owner (middle of the road) would now have a $10-30K paper loss to contemplate. Of course, I know folks don't buy with the intention of selling soon, but how about selling SOMETIME? If you're philosophically resigned to the loss, then you should, at least, acknowledge what a Marriott DC night actually costs.

A purchaser of those 5000 points in 2010 might have enjoyed 21 nights of ultimate prestige and flexibility since then. Factor in the paper loss, and those nights might have cost an ADDITIONAL $475-$1400 per night (beyond the hypothetical $450+ I mentioned before). Thankfully, of course, holding on for umpteen years might reduce that excess cost to a mere $200-500/night. Your great-grandchildren might even think it all ridiculously cheap.
 
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dioxide45

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Hi!!!!

Boy, you're even more hard-headed than I. I admit to buying new cars only, about one every five years, with a total turnover of ten years. I love that smell, even though it only lasts for about 30 minutes.

Bringing things back to timeshares: I absolutely get things like pride of ownership, priceless memories, and the thrill of exclusivity (well, I get that last one less than the others). But I try to be absolutely ruthless about acknowledging the costs of those things. For people with unlimited resources, convenience and prestige can override any concerns about cost. However, I don't think many of those folks are here in TUG. What most of us share is a desire for affordable luxury.

To bring the ruthless cost discussion back to puckmanfl, his friend, and folks gamboling in the DC world: we've all seen the huge impact of price erosion on traditional timeshare. With prime weeks often selling at at 75% discount to developer prices, a hard-headed analysis would force one to include that discount as a cost. Any business would do that, and a similar reality check is useful for individuals as well. If your $35,000 week is now worth only $8,000, then amortizing that $27,000 loss over the nights spent time-sharing would provide a sobering idea of the real cost of owning that week.
Is the situation any different for points owners? I would say absolutely not. I see DC points advertised on Redweek for $3.65, $7 and $8.33/point. These are all folks willing, eager, even desperate to cash out at some price. All of these are sharp discounts to developer pricing. A 5000 points owner (middle of the road) would now have a $10-30K paper loss to contemplate. Of course, I know folks don't buy with the intention of selling soon, but how about selling SOMETIME? If you're philosophically resigned to the loss, then you should, at least, acknowledge what a Marriott DC night actually costs.

A purchaser of those 5000 points in 2010 might have enjoyed 21 nights of ultimate prestige and flexibility since then. Factor in the paper loss, and those nights might have cost an ADDITIONAL $475-$1400 per night (beyond the hypothetical $450+ I mentioned before). Thankfully, of course, holding on for umpteen years might reduce that excess cost to a mere $200-500/night. Your great-grandchildren might even think it all ridiculously cheap.

I would have to agree about amortizing in the cost of that loss on the purchase price. While we purchased both of our units resale, they were before the huge crash in the market. If I don't include purchase price in to my calculation, our cost per night is about $100. However if I include that purchase prices as a cost, our cost per night jumps to $180 per night. That upfront loss has a huge impact on overall value from our standpoint.
 

Quadmaniac

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Hi!!!!

Boy, you're even more hard-headed than I. I admit to buying new cars only, about one every five years, with a total turnover of ten years. I love that smell, even though it only lasts for about 30 minutes.

New retail for 30 minutes of smell ? You should consider going to show rooms on the weekend and sit in all the new cars - an hour of new car smell FREE!

Jeeze I though you were frugal - I lost respect when you said you bought new, lmao :p
 

m61376

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I would have to agree about amortizing in the cost of that loss on the purchase price. While we purchased both of our units resale, they were before the huge crash in the market. If I don't include purchase price in to my calculation, our cost per night is about $100. However if I include that purchase prices as a cost, our cost per night jumps to $180 per night. That upfront loss has a huge impact on overall value from our standpoint.

We've had this discussion so many times in the past. Purely from an actuarial standpoint "value" was questionable for many, if not most, weeks, especially those bought, even resale, before the crash of the last few years. Factoring in lost opportunity costs (ie profit from investments, although it could be a savings if one also considers investments that went down in value) and the per night cost for many weeks, if one uses a 10 year analysis, can equate to a rather painful per night cost.

However, I think you need to think about more than just dollars and cents to justify many purchases. Like wanting that "new car smell," there is something intangible about ownership. For some, it is the feeling of owning a piece of a vacation home; for others, it is the impetus to go on vacation (if you own it, you'll use it). I know for us it was easier to make a decision to buy as a one time outlay, whereas otherwise every year it'd be the same thing- do I want to spend the money, can I find a better rate, should we do this instead, etc.- I bought it, I spent the money and it's gone regardless of what I now do, so I might as well use it and go away and enjoy an airfare+eating out cost only vacation. And, yes, I know that's a bit naive, and of course besides the initial $$ and lost opportunity costs, I have the added cost of my MF's, but that becomes almost like paying insurance and utilities- gotta pay them, but it is just another expense of daily life.

A few weeks ago we went to Aruba with my Mom and daughter/son-in-law. If I didn't own a beautiful 3BR villa, I would have needed to rent 3 hotel rooms. I know me- I would have a hard time justifying that expense, and the trip probably never would have been planned. But since I own a 3BR in Aruba, I went in 2012 and can look forward to going in 2013 with my family.

One more thing- if we are purely calculating costs, we need to calculate how much we save by having a kitchen, even if we go out for dinner most nights. We did before we bought, and felt it probably largely offset the annual MF's.

Maybe it's just my justified way of looking at things, but since it was a relatively cheap vacation when looking at just our recent outlay, it was easy to justify buying that beautiful necklace my DH picked out for me :rofl: and a bracelet as a surprise gift for our DD ;) :whoopie: ...and now, you know where my priorities lie!!
 

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good morning...

all of this devaluation, actuarial stuff drives me goofy....

all I know is that I work in a level II trauma center that sees 160,000 pts per year. Every day, patients put their lives in the hands of our incredibly gifted and dedicated staff... They do amazing work under difficult conditions...

when we vacation (to recharge our batteries) we (at least I) don't get to crazy about actuarial valuations, opportunity cost and all of the other stuff. From a pure financial perspective timesharing, even with Tug dogma and resale purchases is probably a bad idea....

p.s my partner who did the bundle plan owns a boat..probably not a great idea either, form a $$$ standpoint

All I know is the following....

I am going to NYC for a fall week Times Square "on Marriott"...
I am going to the Ritz Carlton Vail for 5 nites with a 3 bedroom and 2 bedroom with my partners... these rooms go for $1500 and $2000/night and NOT avaialble on redweek or other off market sites
I am going to Atlantis in June (right!!! sb3213)
Have 2 units at Grande Ocean 7/20-7/26 for a big family trip!!!!

Yes I purchased retaill...yes wish I had done it before 6/20/10 resale but oh well...

I just love timesharing....

most of all without the ownership...would not be here with my TUG friends..

without timesharing I would never have presented GregT with his own TBL jersey...and had fine wine at Bern's..

p.s I own 2 horses talk about bad financial decisions....
 

jont

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Some people live for today
Some people live for tomorrow

All I know is that I don't know how many tomorrows I have
 

puckmanfl

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good morning....

I live for today..
while trying to maximize the tomorrows..for myself, family and patients!!!

just my way....If I can get in a few skates along the way all the better!!!!

not to be greedy but one more Stanley Cup and jobs for my kids would be nice too... so they can afford the MF's on my Legacy weeks...
 

OldPantry

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New retail for 30 minutes of smell ? You should consider going to show rooms on the weekend and sit in all the new cars - an hour of new car smell FREE!

Jeeze I though you were frugal - I lost respect when you said you bought new, lmao :p

It was poetic exaggeration!!!!
That nice smell lasted for several days. Priceless!!!!
 

OldPantry

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good morning...

all of this devaluation, actuarial stuff drives me goofy....
Yes I purchased retaill...yes wish I had done it before 6/20/10 resale but oh well...

I just love timesharing....

most of all without the ownership...would not be here with my TUG friends..

without timesharing I would never have presented GregT with his own TBL jersey...and had fine wine at Bern's..

p.s I own 2 horses talk about bad financial decisions....

Well, that last comment says it all, doesn't it? Sure, we are all here for a short time, and need to unwind in the meantime. Sure, it would be silly to beat ourselves up endlessly about past foolishness ... UNLESS that self-flagellation helps us make better decisions going forward.

I see no coherence between bad financial decisions and seizing the day. I would suggest that you can have all (OK, nearly all) the good things you extol at a hugely lower price. And that's really why I'm poking my nose into this thread. You've been describing a financial decision made very recently that seem to me to be a repetition of the kinds of choices you yourself now regret. You and your friend have jumped aboard, but other TUGgers might still be wondering about whether the DC is a good idea, particularly in a financial sense. I think most of them would back away, if they figured out the real costs involved.

By the way, I can say I enjoy my frugal Marriott stays (resale) just as much as my more expensive (legacy) ones. Maybe even as much as you enjoy yours.
 

puckmanfl

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good afternoon....

I don't regret anything... sure in a perfect world I would have purchased my 4 weeks resale and enrolled... but OH well....

I am the happiest timeshare owner ever...

My horses bring my perfect cash drain so much joy....

no regrets...to infinity and beyond!!!!
 

jont

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good afternoon....

I don't regret anything... sure in a perfect world I would have purchased my 4 weeks resale and enrolled... but OH well....

I am the happiest timeshare owner ever...

My horses bring my perfect cash drain so much joy....

no regrets...to infinity and beyond!!!!

Speaking of cash drains.......would any one of us really want to have children if we actually knew the total cost involved?

Of course we would!!!!!!!
Thanks mom and dad.
 

Docklander

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I am going to the Ritz Carlton Vail for 5 nites with a 3 bedroom and 2 bedroom with my partners... these rooms go for $1500 and $2000/night and NOT avaialble on redweek or other off market sites

Pardon my ignorance, but what's to stop someone booking the RC with their points and posting it for rent on Redweek?
 

puckmanfl

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good afternoon

none at all...yes i could rent my Vail units!!!! no way...!!

was just trying to say that there is no current availability on redweek for RC Vail. Everytime I mention a break over rack room rates on website by using timeshare, I get the obligatory "rack room rates aren't the real value...you can rent on redweek...thing....

was just jumping the gun a bit....
 

dioxide45

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Pardon my ignorance, but what's to stop someone booking the RC with their points and posting it for rent on Redweek?

Since the RC properties are available through the Explorer Collection, do we know if you can add someone other than yourself to the confirmation?
 

fluke

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Since the RC properties are available through the Explorer Collection, do we know if you can add someone other than yourself to the confirmation?

Vail is not through the explorer collection - that is through the DC from the trust. That should work like any other reservation.

But a good question about the rest. If I have a chance I'll call and see w/ my St. Thomas reservation.
 

OldPantry

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Speaking of cash drains.......would any one of us really want to have children if we actually knew the total cost involved?

Of course we would!!!!!!!
Thanks mom and dad.

Ah, but they're an investment! Why the many guilt trips I've given my kids have been priceless!
 

jont

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Ah, but they're an investment! Why the many guilt trips I've given my kids have been priceless!
You beter be careful! You're going to depend on them someday. Lol;)
 

Beefnot

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good afternoon

none at all...yes i could rent my Vail units!!!! no way...!!

was just trying to say that there is no current availability on redweek for RC Vail. Everytime I mention a break over rack room rates on website by using timeshare, I get the obligatory "rack room rates aren't the real value...you can rent on redweek...thing....

was just jumping the gun a bit....

Renting those Ritz Carltons would be a coup. That would be some serious cash. That might actually make joining the DC a financial investment.
 
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