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BocaBum99

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First of all, these attacks by Larry against PA are completely out of bounds as far as I am concerned. PA is a known quantity in the timeshare world. I have personally known him for over 3 years. He is a man of very high integrity. I challenge anyone to provide any evidence that PA has done ANYTHING unthical. You won't find it because it doesn't exist.

Yet, a person who signs up for this board just yesterday is allowed to attack his character without even disclosing his own identity.

As far as I am concerned, everything that Larry has posted has lost all credibility and his agenda is clearly to somehow sully the reputation of a fine person. He should be interrogated thoroughly by everyone on this board to flush out his true agenda. It does not appear to be for the good of timesharing community.
 

LLW

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The owners on wmowners know how to use the system far better than most owners. So, they reap a far greater share of the rewards. The only difference is that those activities are within the rules. It's the same difference between avoiding taxes and evading taxes. When you avoid taxes, you are playing within the rules to avoid paying more tax than you need to pay. When you evade taxes, you are purposefully trying to not pay taxes that you legitimately owe. I believe most of what wmowners do is more like avoiding taxes than anything else. But, the net result it the same. The average owner gets less.


Hey, that's a free ad for www.wmowners.com! Is that within TUG rules? :D

The fact of the matter is, the average WM owner can get a lot more from their ownership if they would only spend a little bit of learning time on wmowners. We have newbie owners who just bought a year ago, read up on wmowners, and have enjoyed their WM a lot more than some who have been owners for years. The point is, the average owner can do exactly what most on wmowners do if they want to. If they don't, and let their points expire, for example, Wyndham just takes their share and rent more to the public. :shrug: The average owner does not get less just because some other owners have spent more time studying the Owner Education Handbook on the WM site, for example. Like every other owner, wmowners users have finite numbers of WM credits. They just use them better. If 2 families have the same household income, and one lives far better on that income than the other, you can't blame the first one, can you?
 

larry_WM

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I'm not quite sure how to respond to this either. I'm pretty sure you didn't mean this to be as mean-spirited as it sounds.
I learn from my previous experience. I was gang attacked, my mail box was full of nasty messages. I am not as well-educated, and well-advocates as you. I am alone here. I was a happy owner. I don't work for Wyndham, I don't have any agenda. I am just get sick of your guys hypocrite.
 

PA-

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I learn from my previous experience. I was gang attacked, my mail box was full of nasty messages. I am not as well-educated, and well-advocates as you. I am alone here. I was a happy owner. I don't work for Wyndham, I don't have any agenda. I am just get sick of your guys hypocrite.


You learned poorly. If you were ill-treated by others, you should turn the other cheek and stop harboring hatred, it's bad for you. However, perhaps you couldn't be blamed for mistreating those you think mistreated you. I can assure you I was NOT among them; I promise you none of your nasty emails were from me. That's not how I operate. Nothing you say will ever change the way I treat people. I sympathize with you, and feel bad for you.

There's no reason you can't continue to be a happy owner. And how do you know we're hypocrites? Why don't you try calmly discussing the issues? Asking us questions (whoever "us" is) and genuinely LISTENING to the answers and assuming that maybe, just maybe, we're answering honestly? You won't get serious dialogue by flinging accusations at people.
 
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larry_WM

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First of all, these attacks by Larry against PA are completely out of bounds as far as I am concerned. PA is a known quantity in the timeshare world. I have personally known him for over 3 years. He is a man of very high integrity. I challenge anyone to provide any evidence that PA has done ANYTHING unthical. You won't find it because it doesn't exist.

Yet, a person who signs up for this board just yesterday is allowed to attack his character without even disclosing his own identity.

As far as I am concerned, everything that Larry has posted has lost all credibility and his agenda is clearly to somehow sully the reputation of a fine person. He should be interrogated thoroughly by everyone on this board to flush out his true agenda. It does not appear to be for the good of timesharing community.


What did I attack PA are completely out of bounds ? I just mention the fact that hehave been dealing with WM credit resale for a long time which he try to avoid to accept. how you perceive him is your own opinion. I just want to set the record straight.
 

PA-

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What did I attack PA are completely out of bounds ? I just mention the fact that hehave been dealing with WM credit resale for a long time which he try to avoid to accept. how you perceive him is your own opinion. I just want to set the record straight.

OK, I think you've made your point. Anything else?
 

cruisin

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I am just get sick of your guys hypocrite.


I think you are having a hard time convincing those that know him, that PA is not a man with integrity. I too have dealt with PA in financial matters, and he was absolutely honest. What is your agenda, other than trying to slur his character? I am glad there are websites like wmowners that try to make a positive difference for owners with real action rather than just criticize everyone!
 

PerryM

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I get a kick out of folks who seem to hold a person who knows how to run a business or buy and sell things as somehow unfit to run for an office. We live in the greatest society that has ever existed and it’s based upon Capitalism. Everyone does what’s best for their own interests and the resulting society is better off than anything that has come before us.

If PA has bought and sold WM accounts I think that’s just a feather in his cap. I can understand some folks might get upset with making a profit from the thing he might regulate – PA has decided to stop reselling accounts – but it’s completely optional and I would have no problem if he continued to resell so if he makes it onto the WM BOD.

I am not a proponent of consumer activism and have ignored the WM elections – WM, the Club is going to ALWAYS be joined at the hip with a developer. We need them and they need us. Has Wyndham/TrendWest/Cendant abused us – probably. That abuse is felt with falling WM resale credit prices – it’s a very simple measure of how the owners feel. Right now one must assume that some WM owners are not happy with the status quo and are selling their WM credits at fire sale prices.

Will a new WM BOD fix this? My gut feeling tells me no. Look for falling WM resale credits for years to come. (Wyndham is not done with us yet) It might be a great time to buy cheap WM credits and take advantage of new resorts that require much more WM credits to stay at. Wyndham is not a stupid company and will easily out maneuver anything a few hundred WM owners throw at them - same with any lawsuits.


My advice to all WM owners is to learn how to maximize your WM usage and hope that the WM BOD won’t erode our usage too much. Our job as consumers is to use WM to our advantage and that means out foxing other WM owners. This may be a shock to many but you live in a capitalistic society and you need to play your part – do what’s best for your family’s vacation needs.

Larry_WM I think you are 100% off base – my personal opinion, you have yours.
 

easyrider

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You all need to get away from this negativity and back to reality. I checked expedia and did find the wm for rent. I wonder how many other wm units are rented this way or if these are wm units and not owner units. Some resorts have both types of inventory, wm and other. Other could be owner or even another point system like vi. I find bonus time not available where I want to go most of the time and red season booked out 13 months in advance.

As far as anyone selling timeshares or any other legal activity for profit ,that would be their own business. I dont like the idea of wyndam employees being able to rent wm units without having to buy a membership. It seems that white collar wyndham employees are able to rent at wm resorts in other than red season making inventory disapear for wm owners. This may be one of the reason inventory specials and bonus time has dryed up.
 

SleepinIn

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I've been "listening" to larry bash PA over having been a seller of WM accounts. Hey larry, who is the biggest seller of WM credits. Uh, that would be Wyndham. So, if you are going to impugn the reputation of somebody that sells WM credits (or in the case of PA, somebody who sold WM credits in the past) then you'd better spread it around. The two incumbents running have or do work for Wyndham, the largest seller of WM credits.

In case you haven't notices, Inventory Specials have all but dried up over the summer. Historical data (check your old Destinations magazines) will show that in the past there were many more resorts on IS than this past summer. And yes, check some of the links the others have posted, Wyndham is renting out OUR units to the detriment of OWNERS!
 

PA-

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....
I am not a proponent of consumer activism ...

Just gotta stop you there, Perry. This is not even remotely akin to consumer activism. This is about defending our property rights. We aren't interested in Wyndham, this is all about the representation of our Wordlmark Board of Directors.

We own 97% of the credits. The other 3% are owned by Wyndham and an extremely tiny percent of owners like Larry_wm who understand the abuse and lies of our board, yet choose to allow it to continue because they still get good use of the club. The majority of owners are oblivious to the abuse. Our goal is to inform them, and let them choose their course of action.

If this was about consumer activism, we'd be going after Wyndham, not the board.
 

PerryM

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Just gotta stop you there, Perry. This is not even remotely akin to consumer activism. This is about defending our property rights. We aren't interested in Wyndham, this is all about the representation of our Wordlmark Board of Directors.

We own 97% of the credits. The other 3% are owned by Wyndham and an extremely tiny percent of owners like Larry_wm who understand the abuse and lies of our board, yet choose to allow it to continue because they still get good use of the club. The majority of owners are oblivious to the abuse. Our goal is to inform them, and let them choose their course of action.

If this was about consumer activism, we'd be going after Wyndham, not the board.


I voted for the WM BOD - I did my part.

I'm lumping the lawsuits into this too - maybe I shouldn't but it seems that many WM owners believe in magic - a new board member or two and a few lawsuits will make all this better. I don't believe that for a second.

Time will tell, the best barometer of the state of WM is those resale prices. At some point they will bottom out - that's when WM has had a turn around or it just can't get any worse. What will do this? I haven't a clue.

Until then, be careful what we wish for - it could be worse than the status quo.

Me; I just want the rules frozen and learn how to use them to my advantage. That's all I, as a consumer, can do.
 

larry_WM

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In case you haven't notices, Inventory Specials have all but dried up over the summer. Historical data (check your old Destinations magazines) will show that in the past there were many more resorts on IS than this past summer. And yes, check some of the links the others have posted, Wyndham is renting out OUR units to the detriment of OWNERS!

There is no such "summer Inventory Specials " July and August always fully booked
 

larry_WM

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I voted for the WM BOD - I did my part.

I'm lumping the lawsuits into this too - maybe I shouldn't but it seems that many WM owners believe in magic - a new board member or two and a few lawsuits will make all this better. I don't believe that for a second.
.
I agree, especially, we chose the wrong horse. Jim, or Rhonda is a better choice, but they are smart enough not to join the gang.

Time will tell, the best barometer of the state of WM is those resale prices. At some point they will bottom out - that's when WM has had a turn around or it just can't get any worse. What will do this? I haven't a clue.
.

It's a good time to buy more
Until then, be careful what we wish for - it could be worse than the status quo.

Me; I just want the rules frozen and learn how to use them to my advantage. That's all I, as a consumer, can do.


here we go, Perry, I agree with you
 

melschey

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I know that. He's smart because he know you never win, you will be burned.

I am sorry to partially agree with you. I don't think PA will win, because the vote will be split between a couple qualified independent candidates and our BOD will use their proxies to vote for candidates of their liking.

I also agree with Perry, it is very difficult to take on a large corporation such as Windham.

I don't think now is the best time to buy, as Wydham is probably drive resale prices considerably lower.
 

larry_WM

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I am sorry to partially agree with you. I don't think PA will win, because the vote will be split between a couple qualified independent candidates and our BOD will use their proxies to vote for candidates of their liking. .

You are wrong. Read the bylaws again
I also agree with Perry, it is very difficult to take on a large corporation such as Windham.
.

Very true.
I don't think now is the best time to buy, as Wydham is probably drive resale prices considerably lower.
It's hard to tell. Maybe, it will go lower. I will buy more. I agree with you that TravelShare will make it harder for old owner to book on bonus time, but I don't think I can do anything about it. If you can beat them, join them.
 

SleepinIn

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There is no such "summer Inventory Specials " July and August always fully booked

Look again.

June 2004
Bison Ranch
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
Branson
Cascade Lodge
Pinetop
Sundance
Windsor​

June 2005
Bison Ranch
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
Branson
LOTO
Pinetop
Sundance
Windsor​

June 2006
Galena
Grand Lake
Pinetop
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
Big Bear
Bison Ranch
Cascade Lodge
Windsor​

June 2007
Bison Ranch
Galena
Grand Lake
New Orleans​


July 2004
Galena
Grand Lake
Bison Ranch
Branson
LOTO
Rancho Vistoso​

July 2005
Galena
Grand Lake
Bison Ranch
Rancho Vistoso​

July 2006
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso​


July 2007
Rancho Vistoso
Galena​


August 2004
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
Bison Ranch
Branson
LOTO
Pinetop
Windsor​

August 2005
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
Bison Ranch
Branson
Pinetop
Windsor​

August 2006
Bison Ranch
Branson
Galena
Grand Lake
Rancho Vistoso
Angels Camp
LOTO
Pinetop​

August 2007
New Orleans
Rancho Vistoso​

If you can't see a difference, you're blind.
 

larry_WM

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I've never denied that I've bought and sold some worldmark accounts. When I decided to run for the board of directors, Gene Hensley made the implication that I was doing it for financial gain. I told him (and repeated the promise on the wmowners forum) that I would never again buy a worldmark account for resale as long as I was a candidate for the board, or a director on the board. That promise cost me personal gain, but I've stuck with it. I sold the few accounts that I owned (other than my personal account) and haven't since purchased ANY accounts, for resale of for my personal use.

PA- lie all the time when someone mention his resale activity

read the posting #13 of this threading. He denied he is a reseller when Faye (roadsister) ask him

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28104
I'm not aware of radical suggestions. Certainly, this can't be considered radical. An owner contacting other owners to recommend the management company not be allowed to oversee the management company seems pretty consistent with American, capitalistic, and free market ideals to me.

As for being a reseller, what makes you believe that? It isn't true.
.

This was posted on July 12, 2006, 04:49 PM

This give you a glimpse of his character !
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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This give you a glimpse of his character !

Interesting comment. Personally, I've found this thread to be far more revealing of your character.
 

PA-

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PA- lie all the time when someone mention his resale activity

read the posting #13 of this threading. He denied he is a reseller when Faye (roadsister) ask him

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28104


This was posted on July 12, 2006, 04:49 PM

This give you a glimpse of his character !


Charley,

Faye has thrown that accusation out many times, and I guess she'll continue to do so using her various screen names, as though it's wrong to buy/sell timeshares. I've answered the exact same way every single time. It's something I did. Once I decided to start running for the board, I discontinued selling Worldmark accounts, so there would be no question about my motives. I've not purchased a single worldmark account since I first decided to run for the board, 3 years ago. At what point do you feel I can claim not to be a worldmark reseller? Do I need to wait 5 years? 10? Forever?

On second thought, never mind. It doesn't matter. You may continue to make any reckless accusations you wish, using any screenname you wish.
 

larry_WM

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Charley,

Faye has thrown that accusation out many times, and I guess she'll continue to do so using her various screen names, as though it's wrong to buy/sell timeshares. I've answered the exact same way every single time. It's something I did. Once I decided to start running for the board, I discontinued selling Worldmark accounts, so there would be no question about my motives. I've not purchased a single worldmark account since I first decided to run for the board, 3 years ago. At what point do you feel I can claim not to be a worldmark reseller? Do I need to wait 5 years? 10? Forever?

On second thought, never mind. It doesn't matter. You may continue to make any reckless accusations you wish, using any screenname you wish.


I am not Charley,
I don't care much you are a reseller or not. I am just get sick of the fact that that you always twist the truth. You look like a professional politician to me.
After a while most of the record are cleared, but with a good detective job, we still find something
Look at the thread in your friend BBS
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9713
It shows that you was still dealing WM account until Nov 2006, maybe later or even now, (we have no proof yet)
Posted: Tue 06 Feb 2007 9:09 am
By Nick
A NHK 5,000 Sept w/5,000 sold on eBay for $12,000 in November. The seller was "fullup" from San Antonio.
 

SleepinIn

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I don't understand why somebody has to keep throwing unsubstantiated accusations at PA. It doesn't make sense. I remember reading on some thread that PA sold his own NHK account a while back. I know he sells other timeshares, but I and many others believe that he no longer sells WM accounts.

For the sake of argument, let's say somebody is selling WM accounts and running for the WM BOD. Is that a problem?

Uh, Peggy Fry work for the biggest seller, as does Dave Herrick. Gene H and John H are both retired from the developer, the world's largest seller of WM accounts. PA has nothing to gain by being on the BOD. You can't say the same for those whose income comes from the developer in the form of paychecks and/or stock dividends. The better the Wyndham bottom line, the greater their income.
 

larry_WM

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I don't understand why somebody has to keep throwing unsubstantiated accusations at PA. It doesn't make sense. I remember reading on some thread that PA sold his own NHK account a while back. I know he sells other timeshares, but I and many others believe that he no longer sells WM accounts.

For the sake of argument, let's say somebody is selling WM accounts and running for the WM BOD. Is that a problem?

Uh, Peggy Fry work for the biggest seller, as does Dave Herrick. Gene H and John H are both retired from the developer, the world's largest seller of WM accounts. PA has nothing to gain by being on the BOD. You can't say the same for those whose income comes from the developer in the form of paychecks and/or stock dividends. The better the Wyndham bottom line, the greater their income.


Read the above post carefully. Few people care much the fact he is a reseller or not. The fact that he avoid and twist the truth makes people sick. He said he stopped dealing with WM credits three years ago, but if you follow the link,
http://www.wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9713
there is an evident shows that he still sell WM account on Nov 2006. Can you see that?
 
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