Now I think I have seen it all! [merged]

Here at St. Kitts they have the mesh fabric pool chairs. Some of the chairs (maybe 10%) have those nice thick pads that attach with the straps. I like the padded chairs but it is not my life's work to get one and certainly not worth getting up at 7 AM to put my things on one to claim one. Yesterday afternoon around 4 as people were picking up to leave the pool area a couple who did have two chairs with pads seated on the other side of the pool got up, picked up their stuff and then removed the pads from the chairs they were seated in and walked into their villa with them. If that don't beat all!

That's almost sad. You do get to see a snapshot of human nature sometimes, and not always for the better.

I would have so loved to hear that security intervened.

I think thats to be expected there ... I wouldnt be surprised if actually more of the chairs should have those pads and if you were to check all the units you would find them

At our resorts (both non-names) each & every chair/lounge has a cushion. In fact they have two so each night they are removed, cleaned & replaced the next day. Hard to believe that the "premium" Marriott system would only have cushions on some chairs and worse not clean them after the day use is over. What does that extra $300-$400 or more in annual fees pay for besides Marriott profits? Perfect (small) example of why I find brand names a bad bet.

KathyPet said:

Here at St. Kitts they have the mesh fabric pool chairs. Some of the chairs (maybe 10%) have those nice thick pads that attach with the straps. I like the padded chairs but it is not my life's work to get one and certainly not worth getting up at 7 AM to put my things on one to claim one. Yesterday afternoon around 4 as people were picking up to leave the pool area a couple who did have two chairs with pads seated on the other side of the pool got up, picked up their stuff and then removed the pads from the chairs they were seated in and walked into their villa with them. If that don't beat all!

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What a sad pair - really not necessary. Here at PBC - each of the 3 pools has a team of staff who look after all the guests very well. However each pair of pool side sun beds has a notice which clearly states that if you leave your sun bed unoccupied for more than an hour and there are guests looking for a bed then you things will be removed by the staff and the beds reused.

timeos2 said:

At our resorts (both non-names) each & every chair/lounge has a cushion. In fact they have two so each night they are removed, cleaned & replaced the next day. Hard to believe that the "premium" Marriott system would only have cushions on some chairs and worse not clean them after the day use is over. What does that extra $300-$400 or more in annual fees pay for besides Marriott profits? Perfect (small) example of why I find brand names a bad bet.

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sigh....what did Marriott do to you that makes you so aggressive toward the brand that you continually lurk on the Marriott boards to find any conceivable negatives (conveniently ignoring all positives and/or STILL starting arguments re: same) and post how your no-name is SOOOO much better???

(mind you, I'm not saying it's not ----- PLEEEEASE don't tell me how I'm another blind M owner who pays big bucks for something you get for pennies -----)

just that you seem to revel in this...yet don't go after Starwood owners, Four Seasons owners, etc...

timeos2 said:

At our resorts (both non-names) each & every chair/lounge has a cushion. In fact they have two so each night they are removed, cleaned & replaced the next day. Hard to believe that the "premium" Marriott system would only have cushions on some chairs and worse not clean them after the day use is over. What does that extra $300-$400 or more in annual fees pay for besides Marriott profits? Perfect (small) example of why I find brand names a bad bet.

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scrapngen said:

sigh....what did Marriott do to you that makes you so aggressive toward the brand that you continually lurk on the boards to find any conceivable negatives (conveniently ignoring all positives and/or STILL starting arguments re: same) and post how your no-name is SOOOO much better???

(mind you, I'm not saying it's not ----- PLEEEEASE don't tell me how I'm another blind M owner who pays big bucks for something you get for pennies -----)

just that you seem to revel in this...yet don't go after Starwood owners, Four Seasons owners, etc...

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ScrapnGen beat me too it -- not sure why it's so important.

scrapngen said:

just that you seem to revel in this...yet don't go after Starwood owners, Four Seasons owners, etc...

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It is the same with all the brands. For some reason the Marriott owners choose to be more aggressive with the "it's the only way we can have quality" nonsense recently. It used to be DVC - maybe Starwood will be next?

The underlying, simple fact is that brand names aren't required for quality. Owner vigilance & demands drive that. Paying for the name is an expensive shortcut to perceived quality, not an actual guarantee.

timeos2 said:

... What does that extra $300-$400 or more in annual fees pay for besides Marriott profits? Perfect (small) example of why I find brand names a bad bet.

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AGAIN, John, your trolling in the Marriott boards is not helpful to those who come here looking for accurate information about Marriott timeshares.

Once more, Marriott's management fee is equal to 10% of the operating expenses as determined by the regularly-audited annual Operating Budgets. In order for Marriott to collect $300-$400 in management fees, the owners' MF would have to be $3,300-$4,400 ($3K + 10% to $4K + 10%.) The MF for the resort at St. Kitt's, including Marriott's fee and property taxes, ranges between $1,501.79 and $1,952.83.

If you want to continue extolling your preferred timeshare model, the stand-alone non-branded model that doesn't generate profits for the big bad name-brand developers, have at it. I don't care if you shout it from every thread. But if you continue to try to prove that your model is better than the name-brand model by misrepresenting the name-brand model, which is what you've done here with incorrect MF info, then I'm going to call you on it every time.

As a moderator I would hope that you would be able to look at this with impartial moderator eyes and realize that what you're doing is not conducive to TUG's stated goals of being the best timeshare info source available. But it doesn't appear to me that you're able to do that. So if you continue, I will ask your fellow moderators to review what you post whenever you post incorrect Marriott information.

You know, I've said before, I like you and I like reading you. But you're now at the point where what you're contributing to the Marriott threads on TUG is just flat-out wrong. Not helpful, not nice, not cool.

timeos2 said:

It is the same with all the brands. For some reason the Marriott owners choose to be more aggressive with the "it's the only way we can have quality" nonsense recently. It used to be DVC - maybe Starwood will be next?

The underlying, simple fact is that brand names aren't required for quality. Owner vigilance & demands drive that. Paying for the name is an expensive shortcut to perceived quality, not an actual guarantee.

Click to expand...

I'm one of the most pro-Marriott TUGgers, yet I haven't EVER said that your preference for a non-branded timeshare is somehow wrong. You are more aggressive with the "it's the only way" stance than anyone! If you would bother to read what we happy Marriott owners actually write and respond to that, instead of your perception of what we write, then we wouldn't have a problem. We have NEVER said that a Marriott or other brand-name timeshare is the "only way to get quality;" what we've said is that there are intangible benefits to owning a Marriott timeshare, such as inclusion in the Marriott Rewards program and the II Marriott-to-Marriott preference, and "the only way to get" those intangibles is through ownership of a Marriott timeshare. There's a difference, and you're deliberately misrepresenting what we say about that difference, to prove an argument that doesn't exist.

timeos2 said:

It is the same with all the brands. For some reason the Marriott owners choose to be more aggressive with the "it's the only way we can have quality" nonsense recently. It used to be DVC - maybe Starwood will be next?

The underlying, simple fact is that brand names aren't required for quality. Owner vigilance & demands drive that. Paying for the name is an expensive shortcut to perceived quality, not an actual guarantee.

Click to expand...

Hmmm...don't see that "nonsense" you speak of being said here....And the only one talking about "it's the only way we can have quality" is YOUR interpretation. In almost all of the threads I've read, the "M people (who are often owners of other properties as well - no names included) are quick to say there are other quality resorts. Sometimes they DO say that it gets a more consistent level - or that the level is virtually the same across the resorts due to the branding - so you know what you'll get.

BUT.... the few times when they say it's the only way they get what they want - they are usually referring to a very specific location/time of year/view/size etc. that ownership in their particular M resort guarantees them. Not that it's great simply because it's a Marriott. (!) They do not deny people can stay there for less, (altho they WILL argue that you won't get THAT SPECIFIC VIEW/SIZE/TIME OF YEAR with that trade) or that they can stay at other great places that might be nicer in quality - they say that to get specifically what they want, they need to own, and resale is best.

Again, I don't see you attacking similar threads like this one in Starwood or other name branded threads...and it seems to me that Starwood and Four Seasons owners are just as likely to say that the only way to get to certain properties in their chains is also to own - but that doesn't seem to bother you. It seems that you have a bias toward M and also a bias toward M owners. (BUT still like to stay at their properties:hysterical: )

I, too, actually value your input and posts - but when it comes to Marriott - it is the inaccuracies that you pronounce as factual and your willingness to fight without regard to OP's intent - that bother me

SueDonJ said:

I'm one of the most pro-Marriott TUGgers, yet I haven't EVER said that your preference for a non-branded timeshare is somehow wrong. You are more aggressive with the "it's the only way" stance than anyone! If you would bother to read what we happy Marriott owners actually write and respond to that, instead of your perception of what we write, then we wouldn't have a problem. We have NEVER said that a Marriott or other brand-name timeshare is the "only way to get quality;" what we've said is that there are intangible benefits to owning a Marriott timeshare, such as inclusion in the Marriott Rewards program and the II Marriott-to-Marriott preference, and "the only way to get" those intangibles is through ownership of a Marriott timeshare. There's a difference, and you're deliberately misrepresenting what we say about that difference, to prove an argument that doesn't exist.

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We overlapped w/a similar response - but you are a much better writer than I am - good at maintaining an even tone - and have an amazing knowledge of the brand and its resorts, which is why I don't normally post when you are there.

scrapngen said:

We overlapped w/a similar response - but you are a much better writer than I am - good at maintaining an even tone - and have an amazing knowledge of the brand and its resorts, which is why I don't normally post when you are there.

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Oh my, thank you.

This is why I love TUG so much - practically everything I know about timeshares I learned here, either when posters wrote it or when they wrote how to find it. I really believe it's an invaluable resource and every poster has something to contribute. Getting off-track occasionally is expected, but eventually we all get it right.

KathyPet said:

Here at St. Kitts they have the mesh fabric pool chairs. Some of the chairs (maybe 10%) have those nice thick pads that attach with the straps. I like the padded chairs but it is not my life's work to get one and certainly not worth getting up at 7 AM to put my things on one to claim one. Yesterday afternoon around 4 as people were picking up to leave the pool area a couple who did have two chairs with pads seated on the other side of the pool got up, picked up their stuff and then removed the pads from the chairs they were seated in and walked into their villa with them. If that don't beat all!

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Because you are not "worrying" about it, you are in a much better state of mind.

Enjoy.


.

Im with the voice in the wilderness here (John) I think its important to point out that the emperor has no clothes

Johns posts provide a valuable counter point to the "Marriott is better and worth the premium price and the rest of you are nuts if you dont agree", attitude shown here on TUG.

Marriott may be different, but certainly not better than Wyndham or any other timeshare, (they all provide a comfortable home away from home while on vacation)

Just as your Mercedes is different but no better than my Ford (both seem to work just fine to get us from here to there)

If you are willing to pay an unwarrented premium for your Mercedes and Marriott; good for you. I dont get it and I thank John for his posts letting me know Im not completely nuts for thinking that way

ronparise said:

... Johns posts provide a valuable counter point to the "Marriott is better and worth the premium price and the rest of you are nuts if you dont agree", attitude shown here on TUG. ...

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Each and every timeshare system has its proponents and detractors. There is nothing wrong with preferring one over the other and there is nothing wrong with the occasional TUG to-do over how folks formed their preferences.

I honestly can't think of any one Marriott owner here who has said unequivocally in response to any and every Marriott-related discussion that, ""Marriott is better and worth the premium price and the rest of you are nuts if you dont agree." And I don't believe either that it is the prevailing attitude on TUG among Marriott owners - in fact as a VERY happy owner, I'm more attuned to the prevailing sentiment among TUG Marriott owners that Marriott is failing its owners with all the recent changes!

When we Marriott owners extoll the virtues of Marriott timeshares, we generally support our opinions with the facts about our experiences owning them. What shouldn't EVER be tolerated on TUG is what Timeos has taken to doing lately, which is misrepresenting or falsifying information about Marriott timeshares in order to make his point. That's just wrong. It doesn't help anybody.

I thought that it was against the rules for posters to repeatedly hijack threads off-topic to further one specific agenda. Timeos is also doing that. If it is against TUG rules, I'd like to see a moderator step in and do something to stop it.

I didn't want to post on this thread again as I already made my comment. But in answer to the last post stating a differing opinion on a post made by someone else isn't hijacking a thread. Enough said.

timeos2 said:

I didn't want to post on this thread again as I already made my comment. But in answer to the last post stating a differing opinion on a post made by someone else isn't hijacking a thread. Enough said.

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I'm sorry, but in the latest thread the OP complained about folks who took the cushions from their pool loungers when they left the area, and you responded with incorrect information about Marriott's management fees. How you can correlate the two is beyond me.

KathyPet said:

Yesterday afternoon around 4 as people were picking up to leave the pool area a couple who did have two chairs with pads seated on the other side of the pool got up, picked up their stuff and then removed the pads from the chairs they were seated in and walked into their villa with them. If that don't beat all!

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This is simply human nature. Some would call it 'entitlement'. "I own here, so therefore the lounge pads are mine." Sharing the resource (or pad) never enters their mind.

No reason to bash one system or another. There are selfish a$$es everywhere.

I would give the resort the benefit of the doubt, that on St. Kitts, the lounge pads are very nice and special ones. It isn't like management can just send someone down to WalMart for replacements.

Report the behavior to the pool concierge and be done with it.

Jim

SueDonJ said:

I'm sorry, but in the latest thread the OP complained about folks who took the cushions from their pool loungers when they left the area, and you responded with incorrect information about Marriott's management fees. How you can correlate the two is beyond me.

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By asking John questions you are stringing him along. Be Strong!

Kathy,
I think I saw the "pad snatching couple" at Ocean Pointe when we were there last April! While they did not "take" things up to their villa, they always arrived ( she would dispatch him) at the Sailfish pool at 7:00AM. He would "claim" 6 chairs...always the same spot....on the west side of the pool, facing east, in front of the main lobby. He would toss books, towels, t-shirts on each chair, place plastic noodles & flip flops under the chairs. It was quite unbelievable to watch. Then "his" chairs would remain unoccupied ( except for all of thier junk) until around noon when she would show up.

This "entitled" couple had 2 little kids. The kids never sat on the chairs, the father never sat on the chairs...the kids ran around and he chased the kids. Meanwhile, she luxuriated in the sun, sunbathing....6 chairs for one woman. The chairs remained "claimed" by these 2 until the end of the day. One day it rained and they were not there when the rain started. They were often "not there" throughout the day. They did not come back to pick up their stuff. I don't know what happened.

It was unbelievable. Even more unbelievable was that not once did the "chair monitors"/Loss Prevention people ( or whatever they call those Ocean Pointe employees who walk around the pool but do nothing ) remove their stuff. That's what they tell us they do. But they don't.

I guess now they are in St. Kitts "claiming" chair pads. I guess you can be grateful they are only taking 2 instead of 6!!

Smooth Air

The PC version

So the altered (and very last - promise!) version of my original comment, altered to fit the thread I guess, is:

I'm very surprised that a quality resort would not have enough cushions for the pool chairs. In fact I would expect them to have TWO per chair so one can be cleaned while the other is in use. That is how it is done at resorts (to remain unnamed) I am personally familiar with.

Perhaps the fees are too low to allow this level of quality & service? Or maybe the fees are being used for the wrong purposes? I suggest owners look into this with their Board.

It is wrong that a guest would take the cushion so they alone will have it the next day, but the bigger question is why they don't have enough to begin with.

Better now?

Smooth Air said:

Kathy,
I think I saw the "pad snatching couple" at Ocean Pointe when we were there last April! While they did not "take" things up to their villa, they always arrived ( she would dispatch him) at the Sailfish pool at 7:00AM. He would "claim" 6 chairs...always the same spot....on the west side of the pool, facing east, in front of the main lobby. He would toss books, towels, t-shirts on each chair, place plastic noodles & flip flops under the chairs. It was quite unbelievable to watch. Then "his" chairs would remain unoccupied ( except for all of thier junk) until around noon when she would show up.

This "entitled" couple had 2 little kids. The kids never sat on the chairs, the father never sat on the chairs...the kids ran around and he chased the kids. Meanwhile, she luxuriated in the sun, sunbathing....6 chairs for one woman. The chairs remained "claimed" by these 2 until the end of the day. One day it rained and they were not there when the rain started. They were often "not there" throughout the day. They did not come back to pick up their stuff. I don't know what happened.

It was unbelievable. Even more unbelievable was that not once did the "chair monitors"/Loss Prevention people ( or whatever they call those Ocean Pointe employees who walk around the pool but do nothing ) remove their stuff. That's what they tell us they do. But they don't.

I guess now they are in St. Kitts "claiming" chair pads. I guess you can be grateful they are only taking 2 instead of 6!!

Smooth Air

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Lol, there is a running joke that the Germans do this around the globe and indeed I have witnessed it many times. Though on cruises, I saw this most frequently with fellow Americans.

I am surprised that not all the chairs have their own mats. I must confess, I would rather pay more maintenance and have the place ship shape. For example, at our resort, they stopped heating the outdoor pool. That really annoys me as I would rather it be used than be a glorified duck pond.....

SueDonJ said:

... When we Marriott owners extoll the virtues of Marriott timeshares, we generally support our opinions with the facts about our experiences owning them ...

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Attempting to surpress a variety of discussions pertaining to any brand name Timeshares Groups is a mistake. Marriott is a very good case study on a major player that has seen fit to spin off their timeshare division (this suggests that this group had serious problems). The discussions could be very benifical to both former Marriott managed properties owners (note: the new group still uses the Marriott name) and other owners in groups like Sheradon and Wyndham. I hope Timesos2 reconsiders and continues to post.

Tug just reached a new low, in my book. I will be sure to pass on the sterotyping crack onto my German born wife. I would hope the Moderator would edit that on general principles, even though it is not directly prohibited in the rules (after a couple of years, I finally got around to reading them).

timeos2 said:

So the altered (and very last - promise!) version of my original comment, altered to fit the thread I guess, is:

I'm very surprised that a quality resort would not have enough cushions for the pool chairs. In fact I would expect them to have TWO per chair so one can be cleaned while the other is in use. That is how it is done at resorts (to remain unnamed) I am personally familiar with.

Perhaps the fees are too low to allow this level of quality & service? Or maybe the fees are being used for the wrong purposes? I suggest owners look into this with their Board.

It is wrong that a guest would take the cushion so they alone will have it the next day, but the bigger question is why they don't have enough to begin with.

Better now?

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Getting better and glad to see you maintaining a sense of humor. So in the same spirit - maybe you'd like a thread entitled "What types of chaise loungers/cushioned or not and how are they maintained at various resorts??" This could also cover # of loungers vs size of pool/ownership. This could be posted in a general TS forum so as not to seem directed.

Then we can discuss why one resort might or might not care for their loungers in contrast to their fees... Could it be the cost of goods in the area? the cost of labor in same? what about historical problems at the resort leading to the current decisions?

Actually, this thread might be of interest to many, as loungers by poolside is an important part of the general enjoyment of many TS locations!!

See??? NOW it becomes less of an argument or perceived dig at "high MF, name brand resorts," and more of a discussion providing insight and better knowledge of a variety of resorts...