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Cancellation disappeared in 3 seconds

slabeaume

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I've also been told by Wyndham and the resort I cancelled a reservation with that they do indeed take back cancellations if they've overbooked or have a problem with another room. Had that happen on an Elysian reservation (but was able to get it back with Worldmark and eventually most of the days came back in the Wyndham system---like a couple weeks later).
 

jebloomquist

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I am surprised that no one has mentioned having received the following PM.

kentmccain
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Location: Birmingham, AL
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Loosing Inventory from Cancel / Rebook
Dear Jebloomquist,

I am an attorney suing on behalf of several owners who were told to buy so they could cancel and rebook and get this great benefit.
From what I see on TUG , it appears Wyndham is stopping this benefit , although they haven't published any such change or even acknowledge it?
I you can send me your contact info , I'll contact you, or can you please call me at cell - xxx-xxx-xxxx. You're welcome to call me anytime, I'm usually up until about 10pm Central.

Thanks, Kent McCain


Has anyone ever heard of this guy?

Jim
 

MaryBella7

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I am surprised that no one has mentioned having received the following PM.

kentmccain
Guest

BBS Reg. Date: Aug 27, 11
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 0

Loosing Inventory from Cancel / Rebook
Dear Jebloomquist,

I am an attorney suing on behalf of several owners who were told to buy so they could cancel and rebook and get this great benefit.
From what I see on TUG , it appears Wyndham is stopping this benefit , although they haven't published any such change or even acknowledge it?
I you can send me your contact info , I'll contact you, or can you please call me at cell - xxx-xxx-xxxx. You're welcome to call me anytime, I'm usually up until about 10pm Central.

Thanks, Kent McCain


Has anyone ever heard of this guy?

Jim

I haven't, but based only on his grammar/spelling, I would not be terribly confident in him.
 
Last edited:

Ron2

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I am surprised that no one has mentioned having received the following PM.

kentmccain
Guest

BBS Reg. Date: Aug 27, 11
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 0

Loosing Inventory from Cancel / Rebook
Dear Jebloomquist,

I am an attorney suing on behalf of several owners who were told to buy so they could cancel and rebook and get this great benefit.
From what I see on TUG , it appears Wyndham is stopping this benefit , although they haven't published any such change or even acknowledge it?
I you can send me your contact info , I'll contact you, or can you please call me at cell - xxx-xxx-xxxx. You're welcome to call me anytime, I'm usually up until about 10pm Central.

Thanks, Kent McCain


Has anyone ever heard of this guy?

Jim

This attorney contacted me back in early January after he saw a comment I made about cancel/rebook. He obviously was fishing for information and clients in his proposed law suit against Wyndham. This was my PM back to him:
“Sorry I can’t help you with that. I threw it away quite some time ago, after I tried the cancel/rebook process and lost my reservation. It was just hand written notes explaining how to do the process (a rather simple process if you have enough points and time to spend on the computer). I’m sure most of the people responding to the thread you saw on TUG know and use the process, some with more success than others. I also believe Wyndham didn't design the cancel/rebook process in their reservation system but rather it’s a loophole someone discovered and now most large point owners and points management companies that rent out Wyndham timeshares use it to increase profits. Likely existing contracts and program documents limit what Wyndham can do to close this and other loopholes. Personally I am quite satisfied with Wyndham Resorts. I just reserve early and usually get what I want and don't try to game the system.”
He responded with a PM and questioned my remark about “gaming the system”. Since he is still contacting other TUG members, he must still be looking for disgruntled Wyndham owners.
 

Bigrob

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I am surprised that no one has mentioned having received the following PM.

kentmccain
Guest

BBS Reg. Date: Aug 27, 11
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 0

Loosing Inventory from Cancel / Rebook
Dear Jebloomquist,

I am an attorney suing on behalf of several owners who were told to buy so they could cancel and rebook and get this great benefit.
From what I see on TUG , it appears Wyndham is stopping this benefit , although they haven't published any such change or even acknowledge it?
I you can send me your contact info , I'll contact you, or can you please call me at cell - xxx-xxx-xxxx. You're welcome to call me anytime, I'm usually up until about 10pm Central.

Thanks, Kent McCain


Has anyone ever heard of this guy?

Jim

Yes, I have heard of him. I too received a PM from him based on a post on cancel/rebook. He shared with me the status of a couple of lawsuits against Wyndham. I believe Ron P. has also talked to him. I talked to him to see if he had any information I didn't based on discovery actions, etc. The discussion was interesting but I don't know that I learned anything new from our discussion.
 

cyseitz

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Yesterday, Sunday, the same thing happened to me. I accidentally cancelled a Bonnet Creek 4 night reservation for March 17th, and it never reappeared even for a few seconds.

I started looking seconds after the cancellation, and for quite some time there after, but nothing appeared.

Is it due to overbooking, a bot, or Wyndham grabbing cancellation? I don't know. All I know is that is seems to be happening quite frequently now, where it was an infrequent occurrence before.

Jim

What do you mean by "a bot" is there someone with a program that books stuff that gets canceled. Or peruses the webpage for cancellations? If so, shouldn't this be illegal or at least against some kind of policy. I cheats us who sit on the computer trying to get that reservation they need. :confused:
 

Don40

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It definately seems like someone or something has been on an active prowl for cancelled reservation. My guess it is mostly wyndham grabbing inventory for their massive promotions scheme, such as getaways, holiday weekends, some inventory shortages.
The economy is back, people are taking vacations again, so wyndham is back marketing full steam, look at them completing new construction, looking to add new resorts. The good times are in front of us, all the wyndham, worldmark and shell members are searching for rooms, discounts etc. more demand for each room, internally and corporately.
The new reality is cancel reebook, will become an adventure for those of us who try.
Some of the newer members do not remember you cancelled one day and waited until the next morning, calling like crazy to see if your room came back, you would be extremely lucky to get an upgrade. Then some big companies paid wyndham employees to "get their needed rooms" some got fired. The old members would remember that to login was a challenge, they had a limited number of slots to login long wait times.
What we have is better now than then, yes we all want it to be still better, but the cancel rebook works most of the time I am using my experience of 90% of the time. When we gamble some will win and some will lose, I smile when I move from a 1 bd dlx to a 3 br pres unit, just happened to me recently, the Presidential person is now upset about their vacation being ruined they are stuck in a 1 bed room unit so sorry if it was a tugger. It is easier to gamble on a 1 bed room everything is on the upside then.
 

vacationhopeful

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Yes, Don ... I remember those 8AM days... looking for NEW stuff someone had cancelled the night before. Usually, I was at some resort where people got 15 minutes on the resort computer or paid $10 per day for "bad" internet in the room. I met a lot of people who were in the computer room hours at a time ... mostly guys back then as laptops were expensive (no tablets or smart phones) and heavy.

Learned a lot ... had a lot of interesting conversations ... and it was before Santa Barbara was opened ... that chain link fence and empty building.
 

Ron2

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What do you mean by "a bot" is there someone with a program that books stuff that gets canceled. Or peruses the webpage for cancellations? If so, shouldn't this be illegal or at least against some kind of policy. I cheats us who sit on the computer trying to get that reservation they need. :confused:

The use of bots or other automated computer systems to search the Wyndham reservation system is prohibited by the” Wyndham Vacation Resorts Terms of Use”: https://www.myclubwyndham.com/ffr/terms.do , however, it is very likely that bots are being used by the large point management companies to get select reservations for their clients. Wyndham claims that their Security Verification helps ensure that people, not automated programs, are accessing the online reservation system. This might be true if it wasn't so easy to get around the Security Verification by just logging off and then log back on. The Security Verification code needs to be placed at the beginning of the search in addition to where it is now to eliminate the log off/log on trick to avoid verification. I dislike entering Security Verification Codes as much as the next guy but it would be worth it if it stopped the bots or at least slowed them down.
 

ronparise

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I am surprised that no one has mentioned having received the following PM.

kentmccain
Guest

BBS Reg. Date: Aug 27, 11
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 0

Loosing Inventory from Cancel / Rebook
Dear Jebloomquist,

I am an attorney suing on behalf of several owners who were told to buy so they could cancel and rebook and get this great benefit.
From what I see on TUG , it appears Wyndham is stopping this benefit , although they haven't published any such change or even acknowledge it?
I you can send me your contact info , I'll contact you, or can you please call me at cell - xxx-xxx-xxxx. You're welcome to call me anytime, I'm usually up until about 10pm Central.

Thanks, Kent McCain


Has anyone ever heard of this guy?

Jim



Here you go

https://www.dropbox.com/s/03g6y6l3g...n Ownership Second Amended Complaint.pdf?dl=0
 

ronparise

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What do you mean by "a bot" is there someone with a program that books stuff that gets canceled. Or peruses the webpage for cancellations? If so, shouldn't this be illegal or at least against some kind of policy. I cheats us who sit on the computer trying to get that reservation they need. :confused:

and of course those of us that sit on the computer to pick up cancellations cheat the guy that is trying to cancel and rebook. and the guy that cancels and rebooks...he is cheating too.
 

ronparise

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and of course those of us that sit on the computer to pick up cancellations cheat the guy that is trying to cancel and rebook. and the guy that cancels and rebooks...he is cheating too.

and I dont know if someone has developed a bot to search and book for them but after this thread, Im willing to bet someone is working on one
 

SMHarman

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Of course someone has.
A poster here developed one for his own personal use on SVN to initially flag up available weeks in search and now book them.
 

jjmanthei05

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As I said in my previous post, I just don't see how mega renters help Wyndham at the detriment to their owners.

The answer to this is simple. Wyndham only makes money by sales and fees. Mega renters pay 10s if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of guest fees a year where the regular owner pays between nothing and a couple hundred dollars. Mega renters are also much more likely to keep their maintenance fees up to date so they don't get locked out of their accounts and lose their reservations. I can see Wyndham making it more expensive for mega renters to squeeze more money out of them but I don't see a reason for them to try and shut them down.

Anyone what has a clue what the term mega renter is and that they exist would never buy from wyndham anyway (unless they were one). Boards of directors and shareholders are much higher on the Wyndham food chain than timeshare owners.

Jason
 

antjmar

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The answer to this is simple. Wyndham only makes money by sales and fees. Mega renters pay 10s if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of guest fees a year where the regular owner pays between nothing and a couple hundred dollars.

Megarenters only pay approx 25 to 50% in points for the same reservation as a non VIP. Many of their point were purchased resale. This hurts the extraholidays rental and also sales!

As many have said here why buy a timeshare when you can rent for less???

IMO based on Rons link above they were (or are) trying to fix the cancel and rebook loophole and that resale points get VIP discount (with a VIP account) loophole since those two things hurt sales and the extraholidays rental division.

The wyndham owners directly clearly states that upgrades and VIP discounts are for NEW reservations... VIP benefits are for purchases directly thru Wyndham.

Sales staff have tried to lure me in to VIP status by promoting these loopholes but my concern is that it will change soon... and its whats in writing that counts...
I dont blame people for using the loophole but dont be shocked if it disappears...

Megarenters rent for less than half than extraholidays so the $99 guest fee is a very small amount of the profit compared to what wyndham could make if rented themselves.

IMO if the loopholes are closed they will kill the megarententers
 
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torontobuyer

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*I can see Wyndham making it more expensive for mega renters to squeeze more money out of them but I don't see a reason for them to try and shut them down.

Absolutely. Much like EBay initially wanted to shut down snip bidding because individual bidders hated losing this way. Then Ebay realized those snip bidders worked to their advantage, so was never touched.
 

comicbookman

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The one unquestionable benefit of the megarenters is that they pay their MF's. This benefits HOA's and owners. If you suddenly make it unprofitable for them to operate, you are likely to see a large uptick in delinquent MF's. This would not hurt Wyndham directly, but would cause problems. I would presume that most mega renters do not spend a lot to purchase their properties, so I could envision Wyndham instituting a Mega deed back program if they do indeed sink the mega renters. Allowing those with large portfolio's to deed their properties back to wyndham directly in order to minimize the disruption and cost of a large number of defaults.
 

am1

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IMO if the loopholes are closed they will kill the megarententers

I have to pay the bills somehow. The $99 guest fee was what me see the light. I use to rely on other owners being able to transfer points but then last was stopped.

I will adapt.
 

Ron2

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The one unquestionable benefit of the megarenters is that they pay their MF's. This benefits HOA's and owners. If you suddenly make it unprofitable for them to operate, you are likely to see a large uptick in delinquent MF's. This would not hurt Wyndham directly, but would cause problems. I would presume that most mega renters do not spend a lot to purchase their properties, so I could envision Wyndham instituting a Mega deed back program if they do indeed sink the mega renters. Allowing those with large portfolio's to deed their properties back to wyndham directly in order to minimize the disruption and cost of a large number of defaults.

I think Wyndham has already answered that concern. They call it Limited Edition and Ovation. With these programs in place, owners that no longer want or have use for their timeshares can turn them back to Wyndham rather than dump them on the resale market or to the Viking ship scams.
Also, Antjmr had a good point. Mega-renters are major competition for Wyndham’s Extra Holidays. So with programs in place to recover timeshares held or managed by the mega-renters, they may feel it’s time to close the loopholes that enables their operations. Whether or not this will ultimately benefit us average owners remains to be seen.
 

vacationhopeful

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There are several issues many here are not considering.

Points are limited OR should I say, units available to be reserved are limited....

The natural order of Wyndham-world is elderly owners paying MFs and not using their points ... the deed back program (Ovations?) will reduce that "lower than normal" percentage of points being used.

The reduction of USE YEARs ... most owners got "reassigned" to the Jan-Dec Use Year .... so many MORE people will HAVE to use up their points by end of the calendar year. When scattered over the 4 quarters ... un-reserved reservations look at lot better for a quick getaway for owners ... than crowded phone lines all looking for stuff in the Thanksgiving thru NYE dates... a big booking timeframe already.

Families who have excess points (via using the discount windows due to their direct purchases) become MORE unhappy. This could result in lawsuits - claiming a Ponzi (type) Scheme by Wyndham.

Wyndham taking reservations (90%) within the 60 day out window for rental opens up the "idea" it might be questionable. And the number of reservations being "offered" for rental to Extra Holidays decreases (economy, buy backs, deed backs) - is it a GOOD option for Wyndham to have in future years? A business competing against owners getting last minute reservations.

More remodeling, more often (5 to 7 year schedule), more upscale - value added by keeping the product upscale verses OLD & BEAT.

And my favorite, "It is the economy" ... ability of people to afford travel is increasing or the population of people with the time & money to travel is increasing. More demand on the resale market ... for the better/desirable locations - for sure.

Wyndham-world has done more in the past 2 years than they did in the last 5+ years. The change may not make most of us knowledgeable users happy .. closing gaps in computer systems, expanding what is "overlapping reservations" (come on, a 1 day "overlap" is a killer?).

We will adapt - either changing our ways, dumping some of our ownerships, CHARGING MORE to reflect our increased costs, etc.
 

CO skier

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/03g6y6l3g...n Ownership Second Amended Complaint.pdf?dl=0

There is some interesting reading at about page 30 that provides insight into Wyndham's opinion of Megarenters in general and the unfairness of cancel-rebook in particular.

"Megarenters

Owners who are operating a commercial vacation rental business

A Megarenter is an Owner who amasses millions of points in their account for the purpose of booking large amounts of inventory so that they can rent out the units for a profit. They are conducting a business by using our business!


Why Megarenters Are A Problem

* Megarenters tie up inventory during peak times

* Megarenters' cancelled reservations often result in unused inventory

* Our regular, non-VIP Owners are adversely affected by Megarenters

* WVO’s Anti-Megarenter policies have an adverse affect on non-Megarenter Owners.


3. We have identified four opportunities aimed at getting owners to resorts they want more often and more efficiently. Each opportunity has a number of initiatives necessary to capture the value.

B. Get owners to engage within club rules to access the vacations they want
* Limit the use of loopholes by megarenters (e.g., cancel-rebook) that take inventory out of the system unfairly and reduce discretion in applying rules (e.g., overrides) where appropriate.

Proactively manage inventory resulting from cancellations and no-shows

* Create waitlists to fill canceled rooms
* Tighten rules on cancellations, in line with industry norms for condo and home rentals, to address serial cancellers
* Overbook owner stays based on history"



There are a number of other, similar lawsuits filed by this attorney:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182435

He has found the gold mine of billable hours he was looking for, and is looking to add to it.

Here is a summary judgment for one of the cases that is further down the line:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-alnd-7_10-cv-02717/pdf/USCOURTS-alnd-7_10-cv-02717-1.pdf
 
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vacationhopeful

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I liked the comments regarding Extra Holidays - charging a 40% commission to the Wyndham owners who turn inventory over to a Corporate Wyndham entity but commenting that the "Megarenters" (actually, just other owners as 160 "Wyndham owners" truly are is a small group) have negativity interfered with the Extra Holiday rental activity ... DUH? Perhaps the 40% commission charged by Extra Holidays and the internet has done MORE than the activity of 160 individual entities (I would say persons, but I am sure some of the "megarenters" are LLC or family trusts).

Interesting reading ... should be included in the disclosure documents to retail buyer of WVO products ...

Where is the sling shot?
 
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