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Jason245

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Gotcha. My last one didn't have it but then again it wasn't brand new.

Used cars have next to no protections.... Buy new get protections, buy used and get what you get (although you might be able to do something with a Certified pre owned as some companies offer a recision on those as well).

Carmax has a 5 day money back guarantee....
 

Saintsfanfl

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Used cars have next to no protections.... Buy new get protections, buy used and get what you get (although you might be able to do something with a Certified pre owned as some companies offer a recision on those as well).

My car that I bought was actually CPO, but that's beside the point. I got a warranty, but no rescission. New cars don't legally have any rescission protection either, at least not in Florida, but like you said the manufacturer or dealer can always include it.
 

DeniseM

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I believe many arguments have spiraled off into "how someone thinks things work" or "how things should work"....vs how things really work.

In a perfect world….. ;)
 

Jason245

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That will probably only happen in rare cases.

My concern is the resorts that stay open, but are financially unstable and have to jack up maintenance fees to cover defaults.



This is simply unrealistic: If you can't even get a quorum for an election, how are you going to get a quorum at a physical meeting?


Those resorts wont be owned by big boys, those are independents who need a plan and don't have these management company board issues.
 

Jason245

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Have you ever heard of this actually happening with a timeshare? Not saying it hasn't, but just wondering if your point is simply theoretical. First, you would need a quorum without unwanted developer votes to be a possibility. With many properties it is not a mathematical possibility. Second you would need that many eligible voters to travel far and wide and vote. You could go on a proxy campaign but it would likely result in not near enough voters.

I have seen it happen first hand with a normal HOA.

Timeshares are a different animal that fall under the same rules. If the owners were engaged enough and cared, then it is their recorse.
 

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Those resorts wont be owned by big boys, those are independents who need a plan and don't have these management company board issues.

Not at all actually. Just about every timeshare is financially fragile and jacks up maintenance fees to cover defaults.

Many times the big boys actually have the worst plans. Their primary plan is profit for the management company. Raise fees as needed to cover expenses and their own profits. They care less about the HOA than the independents.
 

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I have seen it happen first hand with a normal HOA.

Timeshares are a different animal that fall under the same rules. If the owners were engaged enough and cared, then it is their recorse.

Of course with a normal HOA. It's not even the same universe. One is one owner per unit that generally lives on site. With a timeshare it is 52 owners per unit who live all over the world. Thousands and thousands of owners living all over the world, some of them carefree and clueless. You can say if they cared all day long but the fact is they don't live there and many never even stay there for years at a time. It's a pointless theoretical position.
 

Jason245

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Not at all actually. Just about every timeshare is financially fragile and jacks up maintenance fees to cover defaults.

Many times the big boys actually have the worst plans. Their primary plan is profit for the management company. Raise fees as needed to cover expenses and their own profits. They care less about the HOA than the independents.

Strange, I just looked over my Bay Club financials. Reserves are adequatly funded, operating costs don't seem to be spiriling out of control. Balance sheet seems pretty solid. I only own from one resort, but if you want to send me the financial statements for your ownerships, I can help you understand them and better judge how fragile they are.
 

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Jason - Your "theories" are completely unrealistic in the real world, so I am going to bow out of this debate. :hi:
 

Jason245

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Of course with a normal HOA. It's not even the same universe. One is one owner per unit that generally lives on site. With a timeshare it is 52 owners per unit who live all over the world. Thousands and thousands of owners living all over the world, some of them carefree and clueless. You can say if they cared all day long but the fact is they don't live there and many never even stay there for years at a time. It's a pointless theoretical position.

This is part of the risk that an financially responsible person would factor in when buying a timeshare. Similar to buying a landrover and knowing that you are going to have to save money for repairs.
 

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Strange, I just looked over my Bay Club financials. Reserves are adequatly funded, operating costs don't seem to be spiriling out of control. Balance sheet seems pretty solid. I only own from one resort, but if you want to send me the financial statements for your ownerships, I can help you understand them and better judge how fragile they are.

I am very familiar with reading financials so I do not need any help in that area but thanks. If your timeshare fully funds repair and replacement reserves I commend them. They are a rare minority. Some that claim to fully fund still do not adequately do so.

What has been your average % increase in annual fees? About the same as inflation?
 

Jason245

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Jason - Your "theories" are completely unrealistic in the real world, so I am going to bow out of this debate. :hi:

Which theory?

The one about the legal rights of owners?
Or the one about Management and Boards and HOAs needing to have plans in place and processes to deal with viking ships.
 

Jason245

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I am very familiar with reading financials so I do not need any help in that area but thanks. If your timeshare fully funds repair and replacement reserves I commend them. They are a rare minority. Some that claim to fully fund still do not adequately do so.

What has been your average % increase in annual fees? About the same as inflation?

I have only owned the unit for 1 year so I can not answer that (although from the HGVC board it looks like the increases seem to be in line with inflation).
 

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This is part of the risk that an financially responsible person would factor in when buying a timeshare. Similar to buying a landrover and knowing that you are going to have to save money for repairs.

What "risk"? That you won't be able to realistically replace the board or management company?
 

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I have only owned the unit for 1 year so I can not answer that (although from the HGVC board it looks like the increases seem to be in line with inflation).

Minus developer subsidy changes inflation should be the benchmark. Almost no timeshares can match it over the full life of the property. It would have to eventually level off, or end, but most timeshares aren't that old. Nobody wants to pay more than they have to in the beginning, and nobody wants to vote to increase their own fees. It's the nature of the beast. I own at one property that had no increases for 6 years then increased 4% for 2015. They are an independent with no management to suck profit away from the fee. Most of my other units are way higher than inflation.
 
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Jason245

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What "risk"? That you won't be able to realistically replace the board or management company?

The Risk that other owners will be complacent and you will have little to no control of management and where your MF get spent.
 

Jason245

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Minus developer subsidy changes inflation should be the benchmark. Almost no timeshares can match it over the full life of the property. It would have to eventually level off, or end, but most timeshares aren't that old. Nobody wants to pay more than they have to in the beginning, and nobody wants to vote to increase their own fees. It's the nature of the beast. I own at one property that had no increases for 6 years then increased 4% for 2015. They are an independent with no management to suck profit away from the fee. Most of my other units are way higher than inflation.

I checked. costs went up more then inflation for the bay club. That being said a large chunk of the increase went to making reserves whole and it looks like they actually have a surpluss of cash sitting around and are debating how best to spend it... lol
 

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I checked. costs went up more then inflation for the bay club. That being said a large chunk of the increase went to making reserves whole and it looks like they actually have a surpluss of cash sitting around and are debating how best to spend it... lol

I am willing to bet that no timeshare in the world truly and fully funded all necessary reserves in the first year. This creates a hole that must eventually be filled in future years, or forever pushed forward. This is the financial problem with timeshares. The ones that move to correct it early are much better off. The ones that wait to long will end up closing. It's obviously only one element of the timeshare issue.
 

Jason245

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I am willing to bet that no timeshare in the world truly and fully funded all necessary reserves in the first year. This creates a hole that must eventually be filled in future years, or forever pushed forward. This is the financial problem with timeshares. The ones that move to correct it early are much better off. The ones that wait to long will end up closing. It's obviously only one element of the timeshare issue.

I think our definitions of fully funded are different.

I define it as being funded to the point where when assets are due for replacement there will be sufficient funds to pay for those replacements without having to issue a special assessment.

This means that every year funds are collects and put into "reserve" accounts. The amount to be fully funded is determined by a reserve analysis generally performed by a third partie. e.g If it will cost $1 Million to replace everything (as per reserve analysis) and everything is expected to last 10 years, then fully funded would be $100k/year.
 

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I find your last post comical, not only did you get answers and info on nearly every single part of your original post...you got sound advice on how to do the exact same thing and save money.

Just what sort of information were you looking for if not the details that have been hashed out in the last 84 posts? I would love to hear your definition of "practical advice" if what has been provided you does not fit the bill.

1. you have been told that if you feel its worth it to spend $2000+ dollars to move forward with DFC...you are likely to get what you are shopping for.

2. you have been told that you have alternatives to do the same thing yourself, and save a good portion of that money should you feel its worth your time and effort.

Well Brian, I am glad I have been successful in amusing you. Denise has kindly provided some very good information, clarifying acronyms and abbreviations used in previous posts from people like yourself who are clearly 'in the know'. Information is different to debate, which is what the majority of the posts in this thread have been. Some have been useful, the majority seem more intent on scoring points. Perhaps if you were to ever own property in a foreign country and needed some advice on, for example dealing with CMHC, OREA or RECO (all Canadian organizations) in relation to a real estate transaction, you might be a tad more sympathetic. Good luck with your timesharing.
 

Jason245

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Well Brian, I am glad I have been successful in amusing you. Denise has kindly provided some very good information, clarifying acronyms and abbreviations used in previous posts from people like yourself who are clearly 'in the know'. Information is different to debate, which is what the majority of the posts in this thread have been. Some have been useful, the majority seem more intent on scoring points. Perhaps if you were to ever own property in a foreign country and needed some advice on, for example dealing with CMHC, OREA or RECO (all Canadian organizations) in relation to a real estate transaction, you might be a tad more sympathetic. Good luck with your timesharing.

Just to clarify, you are trying to get rid of a property in USA or Canada?

In any instance the situation is similar:

Step 1: Find a buyer (be willing to incentivize as needed).
Step 2: Once a buyer is found, hire a closing company or real estate attorney (or whatever the applicable professional is) to complete the transaction for you.
 

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Well Brian, I am glad I have been successful in amusing you.

I was amused also and my thoughts were the same as Brian's. What other advice or information were you wanting to know? Can you please be specific? I think the thread has made things very clear for you. DFC is one way out, but it would be at the bottom of the list of alternatives.
 

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Peterh1952…

Don’t let anyone bully you in to not considering ALL your options. Some folks are up to the task of selling their house without a realtor, but most aren’t. You’re going to lose money on the timeshare; it’s just a matter of how much. So decide where your comfort zone is. How much does the money matter? How much does your time and peace of mind matter? These are things you will need to weigh, and decide what your own priorities are.

If you aren’t able to give the timeshare back to the resort, then you might try off-loading it yourself, if you feel up to it. Keep in mind that the closing and transfer process with DRI takes a minimum of 6 months. So to avoid 2016 maintenance fees, you want to have it sold by around September.

After getting nowhere with DRI, I personally decided that I was willing to try the TUG MarketPlace, as it was economical and looked fairly easy to do with Legal Timeshare Transfers. I decided to give it 8 weeks before turning it over to DFC. I wasn’t interested in dealing with EBay or any other venue. I’m fortunate, in that two grand isn’t a lot of money to me. Although if I could get rid of the timeshare in the TUG MarketPlace with little effort on my part, why not? I was lucky; someone took my timeshare within 4 weeks. Others haven’t been so lucky.

I wish you much success, Peter! I can truly empathize with your wanting out from under your DRI timeshare.
 

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One note: I would not just use the TUG Marketplace.

You want as much traffic as possible, so you want to post it on multiple free and cheap website, for maximum exposure.

I'd post it on as many different websites as possible, and also I'd use the TUG Bargain Deals forum, which is the "hot spot" for free timeshares on TUG.
 
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Peter,

It's only been two weeks, but have you had any luck off-loading your timeshare?

Have you received any inquiries from your TUG Forum Bargain Deals ad (or TUG Marketplace ad) for your DRI Premiere Vacation Collection points?
 
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