Need Advice [buying a TS in Hawaii/Orlando]

I have been mostly lurking here for over a month now - I am even a member. And this site saved me from a retail purchase that my wife and I were able to rescind. Thank you!!

Now, I need some additional and more specific advice. We are still interested in purchasing a TS (resale) and we want to make the most of our purchase. We just have two destinations that we like to go to (Hawaii and Orlando) where we do not have family or other easy places to stay. It would seem a point based systems would work, but I really like the idea of a real property deed (I have concerns, valid or not, that a point system could charge more down the road for staying somewhere and I would have to buy more points to take the same vacation).

We have four kids under 12 so with what we pay to lodge all of us - A TS seems to make good sense. To us, it is merely prepaying vacations and we are at a point where we usually get two adjoining rooms or a suite and after a week or so at a resort that is a bit of money.

I am partial to Marriott and Hyatt, having been to a couple of Hyatt properties and even more Marriott properties, but we are pretty open.

And would we be better off with our home resort in Hawaii or Orlando - or even a TS in both? Or a good trader somewhere else?

What we think we need:
Should sleep 8.
Deeded, that could sometimes be traded.
Lower MF the better, but not super critical
We live in Alaska, so traveling out of state between May 1st through August 31st is rare indeed (Work, weddings, and funerals only).
Our kids are not in public school so vacations during the school year are rarely an issue.

I am sure I missed something a couple of you may feel is important, but let me know. And I feel like I am imposing a little and I dislike feeling 'needy' like this, but I want to do what is best for my family. Thank you!

Don't buy in Orlando. You can usually get surplus weeks through the exchange companies for far less than your maintenance fees and you have no initial outlay. The brand name companies in Hawaii have very expensive maintenance fees, making it difficult to trade anywhere without trading down.

I own at the Kona Coast Resort in Hawaii and Maui Lea in Maui. Both are one bedroom units with maintenance fees under $850. Those are very low fees for anything in the Hawaiian Islands. They aren't as high end as the hotel brands but very nice and great traders.

Orlando is full of timeshares and it is very easy to trade into that area. Because of that, generally speaking, the timeshares won't have as high of trade value as other home resorts. I do not know if that is the case with marriott or Hyatt. With Hilton, home resort doesn't matter too much.

Hawaii is the ideal place to have your home resort if you plan to visit there often. The MFs are very high and there are usually higher other fees/taxes that Hawaii imposes on timeshare owners. If you plan to go there at least half the time, most people would say you should own there.

Be sure to read the Marriott and Hyatt boards. I know you can buy a resale Marriott week and exchange the week in Interval. If you do that, you'll probably want to buy a Hawaii Marriott. If you buy Marriott points, you can buy a small contract and rent in points from other owners at about the cost of their MFs which could be nice because you won't be on the hook for the MFs every year.

Overall, Hawaii resorts have significantly higher maintenance fees and taxes than mainland resorts. Because of this, they are not cost-effective exchangers.

If you don't want to visit Hawaii every year, then consider buying an every-other-year deed, so you don't have the cost of a Hawaii resort during the off-year.

You could buy an EOY Florida timeshare for the alternate years.

You first decision to make is which island you want your timeshare to be on, and then you can consider the options on that island.

If your destination is Disney in Orlando ... consider buying at least some DVC points. You get some discounts and you can book into the resorts during the lesser seasons (early Dec, early Jan) ...save and borrow your points, and you use 3 years worth of points for a GREAT vacation. Can book short stays or lower points midweek stays ... ie get a Extra Holiday rented week, Sunday to Sunday, stay Disney Sunday thru Friday and stay at another resort Friday to Friday... 19 days, not homeless, 5 full MIDWEEK days using EMH with a lower DVC point cost.

Stays in Florida during the winter have to be PREPLANNED ... lots of people winter there (Snowbirds) and stay for 4 to 10 weeks. And don't require 2/2 units ... happy with 1bdr and studio ... which is how a good number of 2/2 really are built (as part of a lockoff).

You might want to think of places not as appealing to Snowbirds like Texas, Myrtle Beach, Virginia Beach and Nashville. And those would be available for lower Extra Holiday weeks from RCI.

DeniseM said:

Overall, Hawaii resorts have significantly higher maintenance fees and taxes than mainland resorts. Because of this, they are not cost-effective exchangers.

If you don't want to visit Hawaii every year, then consider buying an every-other-year deed, so you don't have the cost during the off-year.

You first decision to make is which island you want your timeshare to be on, and then you can consider the options on that island.

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We have been discussing which Island for nearly a month. I am partial to Kauai, but she is partial to Oahu...... I think she will win, and it seems to have more for the kids. We have been to Maui, Kauai, and Oahu. Price and availability may have some influence as well with her, but I think if we are doing this for the long haul I am more concerned about the where.

akdrc said:

We have been discussing which Island for nearly a month. I am partial to Kauai, but she is partial to Oahu...... I think she will win, and it seems to have more for the kids. We have been to Maui, Kauai, and Oahu. Price and availability may have some influence as well with her, but I think if we are doing this for the long haul I am more concerned about the where.

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My preference on Oahu would be Marriott's KoOlina - I don't care to be in the heart of Honolulu, where most Oahu timeshares are located.

There are also 2 Marriott timeshares on Kauai, so you could trade to Kauai occasionally, via Interval, but you lose your view priority when you exchange.

What activities do you do on Oahu, that aren't available on Kauai?

vacationhopeful said:

If your destination is Disney in Orlando ... consider buying at least some DVC points. You get some discounts and you can book into the resorts during the lesser seasons (early Dec, early Jan) ...save and borrow your points, and you use 3 years worth of points for a GREAT vacation. Can book short stays or lower points midweek stays ... ie get a Extra Holiday rented week, Sunday to Sunday, stay Disney Sunday thru Friday and stay at another resort Friday to Friday... 19 days, not homeless, 5 full MIDWEEK days using EMH with a lower DVC point cost.

Stays in Florida during the winter have to be PREPLANNED ... lots of people winter there (Snowbirds) and stay for 4 to 10 weeks. And don't require 2/2 units ... happy with 1bdr and studio ... which is how a good number of 2/2 really are built (as part of a lockoff).

You might want to think of places not as appealing to Snowbirds like Texas, Myrtle Beach, Virginia Beach and Nashville. And those would be available for lower Extra Holiday weeks from RCI.

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Orlando is for the theme parks so the other destinations are not so appealing for that reason. The DVC option is intriguing for the reasons you point out, but I think that would be an addition to a TS purchase elsewhere.

DeniseM said:

My preference on Oahu would be Marriott's KoOlina - I don't care to be in the heart of Honolulu, where most Oahu timeshares are located.

There are also 2 Marriott timeshares on Kauai, so you could trade to Kauai occasionally, via Interval, but you lose your view priority when you exchange.

What activities do you do on Oahu, that aren't available on Kauai?

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That is one of the resorts we have looked at, we do not want to be inside of Honolulu either.

I can't think of many activities on Oahu that we could not do on Kauai, but my wife likes the shopping downtown and my kids (at least the older boy for sure) is just dying to go to the Arizona memorial. I also like going to the North shore, but Kauai has the little Grand Canyon and is more laid back.

I think deciding on a 'home' island is the hardest part in this.....

First of all, I'm biased: I own Marriott. but.

Lock-offs can be easily turned into extra vacations, traders or upgrades etc... Imagine being able to trade into a 3br or add an extra week or visit two islands. Possible in the off/shoulder season.

Marriott preference (in II) is a beautiful thing when trying to swap resorts for a change.....Shoulder season could offer you some great Marriott swaps

If you want Hawaii--even every other year--then buy Hawaii. Too much planning, airfare and worry to try and trade repetitively.

I would strongly advise buying a Ko Olina Oceanview lockoff; at least every other year. I would buy Oceanview--easy to rent if needed and not that much more. Easy to trade. I personally love Waiohai (Kauai), but it's more money, harder to rent (I think) and less kid friendly. Would make a great every-other-year visit, don't ya think? Should be able to swap MWO MKO easy.

I'm not sure about DVC--if that's your thing, great.
Marriotts are also very strong in Orlando. IF you bought two Marriotts (EOY MKO and EOY Grande Vista or similar) you get early reservations. EOY's seem to be passing ROFR pretty well.

JM2c

taterhed said:

First of all, I'm biased: I own Marriott. but.

Lock-offs can be easily turned into extra vacations, traders or upgrades etc... Imagine being able to trade into a 3br or add an extra week or visit two islands. Possible in the off/shoulder season.

Marriott preference (in II) is a beautiful thing when trying to swap resorts for a change.....Shoulder season could offer you some great Marriott swaps

If you want Hawaii--even every other year--then buy Hawaii. Too much planning, airfare and worry to try and trade repetitively.

I would strongly advise buying a Ko Olina Oceanview lockoff; at least every other year. I would buy Oceanview--easy to rent if needed and not that much more. Easy to trade. I personally love Waiohai (Kauai), but it's more money, harder to rent (I think) and less kid friendly. Would make a great every-other-year visit, don't ya think? Should be able to swap MWO MKO easy.

I'm not sure about DVC--if that's your thing, great.
Marriotts are also very strong in Orlando. IF you bought two Marriotts (EOY MKO and EOY Grande Vista or similar) you get early reservations. EOY's seem to be passing ROFR pretty well.

JM2c

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I am familiar with TPU in RCI. Does II have something similar?

I do like the every other year approach with HA, especially considering the higher MFs. And Maybe buying EOY in Orlando and HA might be doable, but I am not so sure that I could afford to buy into HA and another TS in the same year.

akdrc said:

I am familiar with TPU in RCI. Does II have something similar?

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When you trade a Marriott timeshare in II, you trade a week for a week - it's not a point system.

I do like the every other year approach with HA, especially considering the higher MFs. And Maybe buying EOY in Orlando and HA might be doable, but I am not so sure that I could afford to buy into HA and another TS in the same year.

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You can pick up a nice timeshare in Orlando for literally free. This is because there is more supply than demand in Orlando, so except for DVC, they are cheap or free.

Look at the TUG Bargain Deals forum for free timeshares in both Hawaii and Orlando: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=55

*Someone just posted a free Sheraton Vistana Resort 2 bdm. - that's a nice resort.

I own 2 weeks per year at Marriott. I have an every year at Imperial Palms Resort (3BR) and I have an Odd Year Shadow Ridge and an Even Year Ko Olina.

We trade the Orlando unit almost every year and we have gotten great trades with it. We like to stay at other Marriott's so that works out. We went to Orlando more when the kids were small but now we pretty much trade it every year. The two resorts that I think I will continue to go back to every year is Palm Desert and Ko Olina.

If I had it to do over, I would focus on those. You can trade pretty much anything and get into Orlando. Also Orlando is often available with "Accommodation Certificates" and Get Aways in Interval International (both are ways to book a week at a timeshare without having to give up a week).

On Hawaii, I have been to all of the islands many times and I just love Ko Olina. The resort is fantastic and because it is on Oahu, I have more options getting there from Denver. I pick up my car, wave goodbye to Honolulu and only return when I have to fly home. The resort is great, the lagoons are great, there are tons of dining options in the area and plenty of shopping. Mostly there is great sand to relax on!

You mention kids. With kids come the kids school calendar. Getting to Orlando and Oahu on the kids calendar is more expensive than "shoulder season".

My recommendations is to find where you and your wife would like to go every year (or every other year) even when the kids are gone. Determine *when* you want to go on vacation so you can pick the right season. Ko Olina is easy, I can book weeks 1-50 but Orlando and Palm Desert are different. Look at TUG, Redweek and Ebay for the prices. Make sure you look at maintenance fees as that will be your annual vacation outlay (mine is 3k + per year for 2 weeks) and remember that maintenance fees NEVER go down, only up!

Finally, ask TONS of questions. We are all here to help.

John

DeniseM said:

When you trade a Marriott timeshare in II, you trade a week for a week - it's not a point system.



You can pick up a nice timeshare in Orlando for literally free. This is because there is more supply than demand in Orlando, so except for DVC, they are cheap or free.

Look at the TUG Bargain Deals forum for free timeshares in both Hawaii and Orlando: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=55

*Someone just posted a free Sheraton Vistana Resort 2 bdm. - that's a nice resort.

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That does look like a nice resort - I really like the grocery stocking service....

I am not sure buying into Orlando would be so great, but (except for the maintenance fee) it is pretty cheap.

I think we would still be looking at buying an EOY in HA if we purchased in Orlando - I would think it would not be easy to use an Orlando TS to get into HI every 2-3 years.

jpc763 said:

I own 2 weeks per year at Marriott. I have an every year at Imperial Palms Resort (3BR) and I have an Odd Year Shadow Ridge and an Even Year Ko Olina.

We trade the Orlando unit almost every year and we have gotten great trades with it. We like to stay at other Marriott's so that works out. We went to Orlando more when the kids were small but now we pretty much trade it every year. The two resorts that I think I will continue to go back to every year is Palm Desert and Ko Olina.

If I had it to do over, I would focus on those. You can trade pretty much anything and get into Orlando. Also Orlando is often available with "Accommodation Certificates" and Get Aways in Interval International (both are ways to book a week at a timeshare without having to give up a week).

On Hawaii, I have been to all of the islands many times and I just love Ko Olina. The resort is fantastic and because it is on Oahu, I have more options getting there from Denver. I pick up my car, wave goodbye to Honolulu and only return when I have to fly home. The resort is great, the lagoons are great, there are tons of dining options in the area and plenty of shopping. Mostly there is great sand to relax on!

You mention kids. With kids come the kids school calendar. Getting to Orlando and Oahu on the kids calendar is more expensive than "shoulder season".

My recommendations is to find where you and your wife would like to go every year (or every other year) even when the kids are gone. Determine *when* you want to go on vacation so you can pick the right season. Ko Olina is easy, I can book weeks 1-50 but Orlando and Palm Desert are different. Look at TUG, Redweek and Ebay for the prices. Make sure you look at maintenance fees as that will be your annual vacation outlay (mine is 3k + per year for 2 weeks) and remember that maintenance fees NEVER go down, only up!

Finally, ask TONS of questions. We are all here to help.

John

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We do not really have to worry about the school calendar at this point, but who knows in the future. Does it work well to have two EOY in the same system or does that matter all that much with II or RCI (and others) around?

I think if we could only buy one TS right now it would be best to start with HI, but with Orlando so cheap/free (at least with non-Marriott properties, they seem to run more and I understand why) - two might be doable.... I wouldn't try buying them at the same time.

I also looks like even if I bought an EY in Orlando, I could at least recover the MF if we did not get there every year. Owning in Orlando does seem to have more risk to me.... I don't think I would have to worry about trade value or even renting an HI TS if for some reason I had to.

This seems more complicated than buying a house.

With Marriott's KoOlina outside of Honolulu, that makes it rather attractive. However, going through the website - $30 a day for parking? That is a tidy sum to park a car for a week..... Is that the new normal in this area or is it just Marriott? I have been charged before by Marriott to park before, but I do not remember it ever being that much.

Other than that, I like this resort. Anything else in this area so I can compare Apples to Oranges to Pineapples? The buy-in is certainly higher with this property so we really want to investigate and look around before deciding to pursue this (As well we should). We are not in a hurry, but we would sure like to be able to stay in Hi in Oct - Dec of next year.

Assuming we want to trade into another resort in Hi in the future (or even off Island) is Marriott's only option to use II or do I have other options if desired?

Thanks again.

Owners don't pay $30 per day for parking. That's what they charge non-owners.

Your only option is to use II, unless you spend big bucks and buy from the developer.

The Disney Resort, Aulani, is also in the same area - look at prices there, and it will make KoOlina look dirt cheap.

You said you wanted Oahu, but not Honolulu, so that limits your choices. On the other islands you will have a lot more choices for less money.

You might be better off starting with a mainland (Orlando?) every-other-year deed first, because the real back breaker with owning in Hawaii is airfare for a whole family.

DeniseM said:

Owners don't pay $30 per day for parking. That's what they charge non-owners.

Your only option is to use II, unless you spend big bucks and buy from the developer.

The Disney Resort, Aulani, is also in the same area - look at prices there, and it will make KoOlina look dirt cheap.

You said you wanted Oahu, but not Honolulu, so that limits your choices. On the other islands you will have a lot more choices for less money.

You might be better off starting with a mainland (Orlando?) every-other-year deed first, because the real back breaker with owning in Hawaii is airfare for a whole family.

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Good on the parking! And we are half looking at other islands as well. There is a multitude of options and prices... KoOlina is certainly an option on our list and I think we will look some on the other islands, but my wife is certainly in (current) favor of KoOlina.

On the airfare.... Not much difference in price for us between Hi and Fl. Considering our origin point is Alaska, it takes us about 6 hours to Hi and about 9 hours (not including the typical layover in Seattle) to Fl. We will spend more on airfare for the family than we will ever pay for a MF.

akdrc said:

On the airfare.... Not much difference in price for us between Hi and Fl. Considering our origin point is Alaska, it takes us about 6 hours to Hi and about 9 hours (not including the typical layover in Seattle) to Fl. We will spend more on airfare for the family than we will ever pay for a MF.

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Check out Alaska airlines and their credit card from Bank of America. It gives you one companion ticket per year that you only need to pay tax and fees on and I think you pay around $100. for the round trip ticket. That will help you with one ticket anyway.

I have a studio Marriott deposit in Interval leftover from before I sold that timeshare. It pulls Marriotts in Hawaii all the time. Being only a studio, it shows studios and one bedrooms. It will show the 2 bedrooms on short notice, 59 days or less to check in. When I had a one bedroom in there, it pulled the 2 bedrooms. I do not think you will have any issues trading in Marriott for a Hawaii Marriott if you own one that is a high season week/deposit. I'd be inclined to tell you that you could buy elsewhere, like Palm Desert, to keep your fees down, but exchanging is always a gamble and my good luck could be totally different in future years.

I think you are wise to consider Ko Olina. If you buy on another island, I think you'll be able to trade into Ko Olina pretty easily, though. Just make sure it is a high demand (red season) week that you buy.

Interested in what you finally decide on! This could be us, minus younger kids, and we live in AZ, our kids are high school, but we are looking in the same properties/locations. It's hard to decide what to buy. Especially when you ask your friends and they are all DON'T DO IT!!

akdrc said:

That does look like a nice resort - I really like the grocery stocking service....

I am not sure buying into Orlando would be so great, but (except for the maintenance fee) it is pretty cheap.

I think we would still be looking at buying an EOY in HA if we purchased in Orlando - I would think it would not be easy to use an Orlando TS to get into HI every 2-3 years.

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I like to think of the COSTCO around the corner as the 'grocery stocking service' for MKO.

Just one thing you might consider: Hawaii resorts are more $$ and more MF's, but they do tend to rent and sell pretty well. NOT so much Orlando and Las Vegas etc.... Just because you get it free doesn't mean you can give it away when you're done.....

I wish I had purchased earlier....kids are now grown, but we're learning to cope with empty-nest vacations!

let us know what you decide.

Decisions...

I still think deciding which house to buy is easier....

We've been reading and discussing and looking and searching... We are primarily interested in Orland and Oahu., two places where we travel where we have no family or regular place to stay.

I think if we lived in Florida or nearby we would have bought a TS in Orlando already (unless we actually lived in Orlando), we would use it regularly and we could drive to it easily. For free or a dollar, at many different resorts, it would make that call pretty easy - even with paying a MF yearly. We need a decent place for 6 people min and two hotel rooms (or a larger suite), when you are traveling with kids it adds up fast. Adding in a kitchen and a washer/dryer and it is nirvana for a family with young children. Because we live in Alaska, realistically, we will only be there every 2-3 years.

For the Hawaii part, a 2-4 year average is more realistic. And we have not yet gone twice in a row to the same Island. If we need to choose, Oahu works best for us now, but it's hard to say we want to go to the same Island for the next 10+ years.

Part of me likes the idea (and my wife probably does more) of being purposely placed in a position where I would feel compelled to take a vacation because we have already spent the money. I know that may sound odd, but I work pretty hard at my job and a vacation is often the last thing I am thinking about (except right now ).

Would we be better off getting a unit that is a decent trader? Or getting two TSs, one at each location?

We really want to be able to go to MOK at Oahu and it seems the mantra is buy where you want to go, which is why we are thinking Oahu and Orlando - likely EOY at each place. I think getting into Orlando without owning a TS there would be pretty easy most times of the year. And exchanges like II make Orlando even easier. MOK seems more difficult and certainly more expensive, but I am sure we could trade it (or rent it out and use the money, maybe) to go elsewhere.

So it seems to be going down to a good trader that gives a decent chance of getting where we want in Hawaii or getting two TS units. I am open to suggestions and advice....

And one more thing, our usual travel times out of Alaska are Oct to early Dec and Feb to early April. As a rule, we never leave in the summer (twice in 10 years - one wedding, one funeral), so I think that certainly matters in this pondering. Both those travel times wold seem to make it easier to get to either place.

Thank you for your patience in reading this and any words of advice you care to offer.

For the Hawaii part, a 2-4 year average is more realistic. And we have not yet gone twice in a row to the same Island. If we need to choose, Oahu works best for us now, but it's hard to say we want to go to the same Island for the next 10+ years.

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If you aren't going to go to Hawaii at least every other year, and you don't want to go to the same island every year - don't buy there.

Fall is the lowest season in Hawaii, so you should be able to get reasonably priced rentals with no on-going obligation.

akdrc said:

I still think deciding which house to buy is easier....

Part of me likes the idea (and my wife probably does more) of being purposely placed in a position where I would feel compelled to take a vacation because we have already spent the money. I know that may sound odd, but I work pretty hard at my job and a vacation is often the last thing I am thinking about (except right now ).

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I think you'll find that this doesn't sound odd at all to a lot of owners.

Vacationing is a costly proposition. Airfare, admission tickets to theme parks or what not, dining out, etc.

If you aren't set back for your accommodations at vacation time, that takes a big load off your cash outlay at that time, even though you paid it either lump sum previously or as monthly or quarterly payments. Add on to that the ability to have meals in your unit instead of dining out 3 meals a day, and the true savings can be significant. Even if you dine out every evening, having just breakfast in the unit for 6 people will easily save $60-$100 per day. Lunch, another $100 per day.

Example:

Airfare for 6 $3,000
Hotel (2 rooms) $1,400
Dining at $50 pppd $2,100
Total outlay at the time of vacation $6,500.

With timeshare:
Airfare for 6 $3,000
MF $100 monthly payment (your actual interval has already been paid for)
Dining Dinner only $30 pppd $1,360
Total outlay at time of vacation is $4,460.

It looks even better when you paid for your plane tix several months in advance.

Having a vacation not take a shark's bite out of your wallet THIS MONTH makes the decision to vacation much easier, IMO. Especially if it is over the holidays and gifts are already killing you.

Timeshare

Timeshares are never a good purchase, and people need to be cautious about this. There are lots of timeshare scams.