The long goodbye to DRI

I have been reading the tug forums for a few years now trying to stay abreast of the latest DRI antics. I appreciate everyone's post and think I have read them all, lol.

I have not seen any current, relevant posts for my situation, so please forgive the length of my post and help if you can.

Stats:
We own (free and clear) a deeded 'Copper' every other year to a 'Prime' property
It was purchased through the now defunct ILX/Varsity Resorts in Tucson AZ
The home property was The Los Abrigados in Sedona
We stopped paying maintenance fees in 2010

We did not become aware that DRI had purchased ILX until well after the fact when our new DRI fees, including Club fees, became due. I believe this was Jan 09. I called them in shock at the huge jump in maintenance fees and to question the club fees. After listening to what sounded an awful lot like a lengthy sales presentation about The Club, I told them firmly, multiple times that I was not interested in their club and to remove the charge. At that point I was told in no uncertain terms that I could pay the fee or become delinquent and go to collections, the 'opt-out' period had past. Insisting I had NEVER received notice of the club or opt-opt period did no good. To maintain our good credit, I paid.

2010 brought more club fees and another huge jump in maintenance fees. After lots of research and careful consideration, including the fact that we have never, not once, used our timeshare, we decided to just stop paying. After all, our contract was with ILX for a deeded week (with 6 flex weeks) and DRI had materially changed the contract to eliminate our flex weeks and force us to a points system.

The first couple years the collection dept called a few times and every time I told them I would not discuss anything over the phone and all communication must be via mail. They refused to accept that unless I 'verified' my account and balance due, thereby trying to get me to acknowledge the debt. I refused so they kept calling and eventually I blocked their number. I continued to get statements and the occasional nasty gram threatening to block my access, etc.

Today I got a call from a Bay Area number, 415-889-2767, the gentleman named Ralph Rios (?) claimed to be calling from DRI headquarters in FLORIDA and said he was my Vacation Coordinator. He wantied to know if I had received my upgrade options in the mail, if not he could go over them, or I could supply him my email and he would happily email them to me. Um no. Not sure if this relates to DRI or is a scam.

After that interesting call I got a letter today from First American title giving me notice of delinquent assessment and threatening a Non-Judicial foreclosure if I do not bring my account current within 30 days.

So, after 5 years of refusing to pay maintenance and club fees, it has come to this.

While in theory a non-judicial foreclosure sounds like a great way to finally be done with DRI since they can't come after us for any shortfalls, however our concern is whether we will take a foreclosure hit on our credit, not an option!

Since I bought prior to Jan 1, 2009, Arizona statute has a clause that I can prevent a Non-judicial foreclosure, thereby forcing them to persue legal action, which I am sure DRI really wants to avoid. At this point I would rather pay an attorney $5000 and fight them in court than give them another dime!

FTR, I refuse to PAY them to take my deed back so they can resell it.

So has anyone else been in a similar position? I would love to hear others experiences with an Assessment only foreclosure, fee less deed backs or prior ILX owners who, like us, didn't buy into the points system.

Thanks!

Isn't the issue with the owners of your property including DRI's skin, if any, in the property? Is DRI just acting as the manager of the property and inventories?

In Florida, if I own a condo and become deliquent on condo fees, the association can sue to foreclose their lien. Of course, any first institutional mortgages are superior but the association can take ownership until the bank acts.

In timeshare, I think but I am not a lawyer, no legal advice, the process is less intrusive. The taking of the interest, I guess, is tied to the laws which governed the original deed. I think most local court systems want less of these and, therefore, they have been relegated to timeshare legal process.

So while dri seems to be your angst in the matter, not sure if they're just do what they are supposed to be doing as manager. Please keep this thread and update it for it would be very helpful to understand. I am saving the thread to monitor.

When I read a report of an owner who voluntarily stops paying their MF, thereby putting the other owners at the resort on the hook to cover their share, it frosts me. I have little sympathy for someone who made no effort to sell, or give away the timeshare week.

It should come as no surprise that interest, late charges, legal fees, collection fees and penalties are added on to what is legally owed. I'm going to propose that those possible outcomes were outlined, and signed off on when the OP made the commitment to purchase.

All this discomfort could have been avoided by 're-homing' the timeshare, giving it to the developer when DRI took it over, selling, giving it away, or even by turning it over to some fly-by-night upfront-fee outfit.

OP, you brought this all down on yourself by your lack of action. Let us know how it all works out for you. The rest of the owners will be relieved of caring for your timeshare after the foreclosure and re-sale to someone who will maintain it.

Good Luck.

Jim

Passepartout said:

When I read a report of an owner who voluntarily stops paying their MF, thereby putting the other owners at the resort on the hook to cover their share, it frosts me. I have little sympathy for someone who made no effort to sell, or give away the timeshare week.

It should come as no surprise that interest, late charges, legal fees, collection fees and penalties are added on to what is legally owed. I'm going to propose that those possible outcomes were outlined, and signed off on when the OP made the commitment to purchase.

All this discomfort could have been avoided by 're-homing' the timeshare, giving it to the developer when DRI took it over, selling, giving it away, or even by turning it over to some fly-by-night upfront-fee outfit.

OP, you brought this all down on yourself by your lack of action. Let us know how it all works out for you. The rest of the owners will be relieved of caring for your timeshare after the foreclosure and re-sale to someone who will maintain it.

Good Luck.

Jim

Click to expand...

Wow! You are making an awful lot of assumptions here Jim. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with DRI and what happens to owners when they take over a property. A quick google on them should bring you up to date in short order.

FTR I absolutely looked into and attempted 're-homing' and that ^^^ google search will show you what a joke that is too.

Perhaps you did not read/comprehend all that I wrote, so a bit of a recap:

We PAID for our deed in full and ALL maintenance fees for over TEN years without EVER using a single day of a single resort. So instead of being "frosted" you and all those other owners should be grateful because we helped maintain a property for THEM to use, with ZERO benefit to ourselves.

Before you make any more assumptions, I will tell you why. My husband was Active Duty Air Force, a career military Aviator for over 25 years and we did NOT have the luxury of planning our leave well in advance, we took it when we could get it and were grateful for it!

Despite all the sales pitch 'guarantees' and promises of availability, even with short (as in less than 6 months!) notice, that was not, is not and has never been the reality with timeshare vacationing! Something we didn't discover until well after the rescission period.

Forestalling any more assumptions or aspersions-
We paid and continued to pay because WE felt morally obligated to do so, because WE signed a contract, because WE take care of ALL our obligations and WE made a critical error in judgement. Something that held so much promise, a wonderful opportunity for our family, in reality was a huge albatross, financially and otherwise.

We didn't stop paying until DRI took over. THEY changed the terms of our contract and it doesn't even almost resemble what we signed up for. And I will be damned before I saddle my children with this nightmare or continue to fund a morally ambiguous person/system that is getting rich off the backs of 'regular' people! If you want to be "frosted" at something, why don't you start there?

And finally, before you suggest we 'learn how to use our timeshare' and 'make it work for us' I will tell you the ONLY traveling I do these days is for stem cell transplants and to see specialists around the country, but thanks, a REAL vacation would be nice.

So Jim, I hope this has cleared up a few things for you. And BTW, thanks for that warm welcome to TUGS.

I just want to comment on one statement that you made:

No one can be forced to inherit property that they don't want, so if your children don't want your timeshare:

1) Don't leave it to them in your will

2) Direct your heirs to file paperwork with the court refusing the timeshare inheritance. You might want to leave detailed instructions about this with your will, and attorney.

Thank you Denise. I do realize that and will do all in my power to make sure my children do as well. Sadly, though, I have heard horror stories about the tactics used on heirs and grieving family to continue the income stream to DRI.

mysticah said:

Thank you Denise. I do realize that and will do all in my power to make sure my children do as well. Sadly, though, I have heard horror stories about the tactics used on heirs and grieving family to continue the income stream to DRI.

Click to expand...

If your children understand and exercise their rights, horror tactics won't work - but you need to make sure of that in advance.

BTW - DRI is no different than any other management company when it comes to pursuing people who are in arrears. That's just the way it is...

I just wanted to point out to those who accuse owners in default of passing the buck onto the other owners, that anyone who asked the HOA to accept a deedback, especially an HOA who doesn't have the means to sell the week in question, you may be following the rules and you may not be breaking a contract but you are still passing the buck to all of the other owners. I know this is the case for small HOA's not in active sales putting off season weeks with a MF's that is higher than similar area rentals onto a newletter and listing with a local agent is not going to get those weeks into the hand of MF paying owners.

I don't know know if DRI is paying the MF's until the contracts are sold for the inventory that they are taking back or if that remains as responsibility of the other owners until it is sold. They are going to be making a lot of profit by selling those weeks again but at least they are putting money into marketing and selling the weeks. Hopefully they are getting it into the hands of people who will like the product and use the product and won't want to deedback or default at least in the near future.

So, after 5 years of refusing to pay maintenance and club fees, it has come to this.

While in theory a non-judicial foreclosure sounds like a great way to finally be done with DRI since they can't come after us for any shortfalls, however our concern is whether we will take a foreclosure hit on our credit, not an option!

Since I bought prior to Jan 1, 2009, Arizona statute has a clause that I can prevent a Non-judicial foreclosure, thereby forcing them to persue legal action, which I am sure DRI really wants to avoid. At this point I would rather pay an attorney $5000 and fight them in court than give them another dime!

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if you never used it. It doesn't matter you weren't happy with the elimination of "flex" benefit. You did add to the losses of other ILX members and added to the steep fee increases. ILX and the economy had alot to due with it-imo. A deed is different than a benefit ("flex). Associations whether timeshare or otherwise have to adjust to conditions. You did sign up for that. Your credit ding from a foreclosure, whether judicial or non judicial ruling is quite real. You do not have control or "option" over that unless you prevail, which I personally think you would fail. Heck, I'd take the deed and combo it in higher (loyalty) for me, however,taking a deed from a foreclosure or a defaulted member brings with it joint and several liability. That is, I then owe the debt and so do you and your estate, if applicable.

Your best option would have been to work with them-imo. But maybe I'm wrong. Good luck. Please keep us posted.

johnrsrq said:

It doesn't matter if you never used it. It doesn't matter you weren't happy with the elimination of "flex" benefit. You did add to the losses of other ILX members and added to the steep fee increases. ILX and the economy had alot to due with it-imo. A deed is different than a benefit ("flex). Associations whether timeshare or otherwise have to adjust to conditions. You did sign up for that. Your credit ding from a foreclosure, whether judicial or non judicial ruling is quite real. You do not have control or "option" over that unless you prevail, which I personally think you would fail. Heck, I'd take the deed and combo it in higher (loyalty) for me, however,taking a deed from a foreclosure or a defaulted member brings with it joint and several liability. That is, I then owe the debt and so do you and your estate, if applicable.

Your best option would have been to work with them-imo. But maybe I'm wrong. Good luck. Please keep us posted.

Click to expand...

And for 10 years she subsidized everyone else who was delinquent.

By the way, it depends on who is foreclosing. If the developer forecloses, the developer pays the MF until they are able to re-sell it.

The developer is long gone. The hoa would have mgmt take remedy to stop the bleeding. DRI may or may not take an interest in the interval. But the hoa has the budget /receivables
/bad debts. Even though others defaulted, the entire hoa, which you become a member in this situation and most others shoulder the losses.

johnrsrq said:

The developer is long gone. The hoa would have mgmt take remedy to stop the bleeding. DRI may or may not take an interest in the interval. But the hoa has the budget /receivables
/bad debts. Even though others defaulted, the entire hoa , which you become a member in this situation and most others shoulders the losses.

Click to expand...

In this case, I mean DRI. If DRI takes the interval back, they pay MF on it until it is resold. If an HOA takes it back independently, then it's a hit against total MFs because HOAs don't have a sales revenue stream from which to pay MFs without it coming right out of the fund it's going into.

Yes ok, that is if DRI is contractually obligated to do that. They may have discretion. They may only act as manager and agree to take back sooner unit, be liable for some fees. That is in their conttact with hoa.

Actually the flex weeks were not a benefit or perk. They were an additional option that was negotiated and paid for and written into our contract. An upgrade, if you will, much the same as choosing leather over fabric seats in a new car, it's gonna cost ya, lol

I am not quite sure I am understanding, not trying to be argumentative, but I fail to see how I have added to the losses of other ILX members or to the steep fee increases. At the time I stopped paying, ILX members had long ceased to exist and DRI started instituting fee hikes the second they took over.

I do get that our decision may have unintended collateral damage, however, our share in Los Abrigados is minuscule in the grand scheme of things. You can also be sure that the loss of a percentage of MF fee revenue has already been factored in to the overall budget and tax reports. However, I do see your point.

Let me just say that I have nothing against the idea of timeshares and if they work for you and you have never faced the issues others have, great! More power to you! But sadly my experience is not an isolated event, there are many, many others who have had as bad or worse.

There also seems to be the misconception that I have never even attempted to work with DRI. That could not be further from the truth. The reality is, in my experience, their system is designed to maximize shareholder profits at all costs and they don't give a rats ass about customer service. Just trying to talk to a real person is an exercise in frustration, if not outright futility. The hostility and lies in dealing with their 'customer service' is in part what led to our decision to abandon ship in the first place!

I just have to ask - why this barrage of 'shame and blame'? There are countless threads in this very forum of people requesting and actually receiving helpful advice on how to get out of the DRI nightmare, I know, I have read every one of them. Some have not only defaulted on MFs, but on mortgages as well, others are being ADVISED to default as a way out. So, what gives??? Where is my helpful advice?

A quick mention for those who are unaware - while DRI would have you believe that the HOA is 'by owners for owners' and looking out for your best interest as an owner, the reality is, more often than not, the HOA is stocked with DRI people and is nothing more than an extension of DRI and their interests.

mysticah said:

I just have to ask - why this barrage of 'shame and blame'? There are countless threads in this very forum of people requesting and actually receiving helpful advice on how to get out of the DRI nightmare, I know, I have read every one of them. Some have not only defaulted on MFs, but on mortgages as well, others are being ADVISED to default as a way out. So, what gives??? Where is my helpful advice?

Click to expand...

I personally don't have a problem with your decision. From everything I've seen, DRI seems to be the biggest "bully" among timeshare systems. Maybe Wastegate, too, but I've read less about them.

In fairness, though, most of those that have been advised to default out are so advised because they are in critical financial straits and the developer won't work with them.

And you're right about the HOA board. There has been some discussion about that issue on the board before. The problems are that the developer often owns multiple intervals at the resort, and that given the wide geographic spread, trying to get a majority together, even through proxy, to combat the developer-dominated boards is virtually impossible. This does seem like it would create a conflict of interest where DRI employees hold fiduciary duty to protect the interests of owners.

Thanks to you and your hubby for your service to us and our way of life.

Ty1on said:

I personally don't have a problem with your decision. From everything I've seen, DRI seems to be the biggest "bully" among timeshare systems. Maybe Wastegate, too, but I've read less about them.

In fairness, though, most of those that have been advised to default out are so advised because they are in critical financial straits and the developer won't work with them.

And you're right about the HOA board. There has been some discussion about that issue on the board before. The problems are that the developer often owns multiple intervals at the resort, and that given the wide geographic spread, trying to get a majority together, even through proxy, to combat the developer-dominated boards is virtually impossible. This does seem like it would create a conflict of interest where DRI employees hold fiduciary duty to protect the interests of owners.

Thanks to you and your hubby for your service to us and our way of life.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply, I truly appreciate it.

In all honesty, we are not in dire financial straights at this moment, but are looking at and planning for the future. As I mentioned, I have health issues that are ongoing and while I am eternally grateful for military health coverage, it does not cover stem cell transplants (considered experimental and the ONLY reason I am still alive) or other treatments for rare, 'orphan' diseases like mine.

So I guess at the end of the day, we have to do what is right for us, even if it is not popular with others here.

I don't know if it's true for Los Abrigados, but for our home resort, DRI makes the MF payments to the HOA for all units that are in default. They're not just being nice, it allows them to rent the units, or make them available to members with points in that collection or members of the Club. If it is foreclosed, DRI gets ownership for nothing more than the cost of the foreclosure.

mysticah said:

Thank you for your reply, I truly appreciate it.

In all honesty, we are not in dire financial straights at this moment, but are looking at and planning for the future. As I mentioned, I have health issues that are ongoing and while I am eternally grateful for military health coverage, it does not cover stem cell transplants (considered experimental and the ONLY reason I am still alive) or other treatments for rare, 'orphan' diseases like mine.

So I guess at the end of the day, we have to do what is right for us, even if it is not popular with others here.

Click to expand...

I wish you the best. Sincere thanks for your family's service to our still great nation. Welcome to Tugg (from a relatively newer, non yes person). Yes, of course, do what is best (right) for yourselves. And yes, I have managed my timeshare stuff reluctantly over the years and I have timeshare experiences from gathering family members (and clients) during sickness and funerals. I never would have thought.

However, I'm not looking to open a huge debate. It seems you posed a question and made statements and if, someone does not agree or offers thoughts contrary, it refers back to the frustration and do a "google search".
The masses must be right.

Multiply your ILX interval by 10,000 non payers for 5 years. The consequence to the associations have been severe. The primary concern you have is your credit and the potential hit may take from a foreclosure. I am interested to know what happens as well many others who are similarly planning.

To me, the real culprits are those that are selling very high $$ vacation intervals/points/systems without regard to the devastating hit (financially and emotionally) to the buyer and his/her family. Just in it for the high buck. Very much like cigarette company salesmen/promoters. But some of them may have value in helping others.

Best of luck to you and your family.

artringwald said:

I don't know if it's true for Los Abrigados, but for our home resort, DRI makes the MF payments to the HOA for all units that are in default. They're not just being nice, it allows them to rent the units, or make them available to members with points in that collection or members of the Club. If it is foreclosed, DRI gets ownership for nothing more than the cost of the foreclosure.

Click to expand...

P@P, a very high value property. DRI should do that as fast as possible to keep your fees down. However, deeded members like yourself can try to sell the timeshare interval (deed) to anyone based on what someone's willing to pay. And with oil prices plummeting, airfares might get more reasonable. DRI is in an enviable position of managing 24/7 and willing to take it on thereby aiding a continuous smooth operation.

I find it surprising that so many people here are so quick to condemn the OP without even asking for details of how DRI violated the terms of her contract. It was not really clearly explained in detail. To me, that is the critical issue. If the terms of the contracted ownership in her deed were changed without her consent then she has every right to do what she is doing. If the deed was not violated, however, that is a different story.

Same boat...

I'm totally new to the boards, but am in the same situation. It started 16 years ago when we bought from ILX, and bought up to the clubhouse level. We enjoyed yearly visits to Kohl, Los Abrigados, a place in Tucson, etc... but then Diamond resorts came in and totally screwed us up big time.

We bought the time share to hold and pass down to our kids. But, when ILX was taken over we lost half our benefits AND our yearly fees went up. We had to goto a plan that only allowed us to use it every other year. We were severely strapped for cash because of the economy so when we tried to figure out what to do with our contract we were told to pay over 6k more. Well, I simply could not.

I am told to pay over 1000 a year for something I can only use every other year. Um, thats paying 2k for a week of time???? I have a Gold membership, frequency of Every Other Ear (Biennial) Even Years, and a occ period of Seven days including one weekend.

I was really sad that it came to this. The new company basically screwed us over. If I had money, then *maybe*, but, I don't.

Today I get the Notice of Delinquent Assessment. I call them and I have 1 of three options:
A) Pay over 4k in 30 days to keep it.
B) Pay them 500 and call it a wash
C) Let it forclose.

The first option simply isn't doable: I am trying hard just to keep my bills paid, and we have not had a good vacation in 3 years.
The last 2 options only get rid of the property and I get notta/nothing, other than the loss of another $500, or bad credit.

I'm frustrated, furious, sad... the girls (my kids who are now older) LOVE going to Los Abrigados. We were talking about it the other night about how we always used to eat fruit from the fruit stand out near the fountain. About how they would walk up and down the creek, or swim for hours in the pools. The trails, the nice "apartment" they called it that we built up to.

I have thousands into this thing and now I have to let it go because DR does not give a shit about people who really do treasure what they have. They saw a way to get tons more out of people, and those like me got the shaft.

I have no clue what it is worth, they would not tell me over the phone. I have no clue what to do. I would love to get SOMETHING out of this, but I doubt I will because of how they destroyed the value of my timeshare.

I believe I paid close to 16k for all of this, maybe 19, I would have to look at my paperwork whenever I can find it.

I'm seriously depressed. Do I have any options at all? Anyone with any advise in layman's terms because I don't understand all this stuff about what I read above. I'm just a simple man who had something nice to give to his kids but the bully on the block took it away.

Mike.

Sorry for your difficulties. DRI SUX! Not the resorts, but their business practices. Buying troubled resorts and jacking up MFs on owners is a pi$$poor way to expand their business.

But clearly, your best option is.....drum roll..... option B. Pay them the $500 and be done with it. It is worth a few hundred at best anyway on today's market.

If timeshare has not turned you off entirely, a nice usable sub $1000 with annual use and sub $1k MFs (honestly, MFs have gone up across the board that renting is very viable with no buy in)

Welcome to TUG. We truly feel for you and others in the same leaky boat. Pay them their blood money and kiss DRI goodbye.

Jim

Mike,
I am very sorry you are in this position and your story makes me incredibly sad.

I am glad you have chosen to share it here, perhaps if more of us came forward about what DRI has done to the people that bought from ILX, I wouldn't have to tell people to 'Google' it, which, in this group, seems to be tantamount to pulling lies out of my ass. Maybe then we could get some helpful input and not the derision and harsh judgements I have been subjected to for reaching out.

The fact of the matter is DRI has been decimating the value of our timeshares while at the same time charging us more and more every year, far more than the MF projections that our purchases were based on.

In addition to that, they are forcing club fees on owners with threats of collections and foreclosures, despite the fact that we have no legal obligation to pay - it was NEVER part of our contract.

And finally, they use lies, trickery and strong arm tactics to gain possession of our deeds, at the very least making us PAY them to get out of the nightmare, so they can turn around and sell them at a HUGE profit! Trust me, my deed is worth much, much more than the delinquent MF fees and fraudulent club dues combined. All in all it is a win/win for DRI.

Mike, if you purchased prior to '09 there should be a form you can send back to prevent them from proceeding with a Non-judicial foreclosure which will force them to engage in a lengthy and costly judicial foreclosure. Whether that will work out better or worse for either of us, I really couldnt say at this point, but that is the direction I am leaning.

I will be in contact with a real estate attorney early next week who will either confirm or disavow my suspicions that what DRI is attempting to do could very well backfire on them.

In order for them to even start a judicial foreclosure, they must first establish our responsibility for the debt, which I assume would require them to produce our original, signed contract from over 15 years ago. A contract that was entered into with a different entity entirely. That means impeccable record keeping by ILX for 10 years, all through the transfer of ownership to DRI and the subsequent 5 years.

So far they have already failed to satisfy SIMPLE clerical requirements for any foreclosure, judicial or otherwise.

If all of that weren't enough, our court system really frowns on 'Unjust Enrichment' in all its forms. IMO DRI is the personification of unjust enrichment!

I will keep you posted.

sounds like you just have to decide if the $500 is worth maintaining your credit...or if you simply dont care as either of the last 2 solutions divest you of your ownership.

sorry its been such a bumpy road for you