Converting Fairfield Glade

My mom has an 18th week timeshare in Fairfield Glade, TN, and is asking me if I would like to have it. She is aging, and is beginning to worry about what will happen when she passes.

I believe she can pass it on to me, although I don't really know yet how that will work. But the last time she used it, she was asked if she would like to convert it to Wyndham points.

I am planning to stay at the resort this year, and while I was there, was hoping to learn enough to make a decision on whether to:

1) have it transferred to my name "as-is"
2) have it converted to points
3) determine how best to donate it.

I've owned at Disney for 15 years, but that is my only exposure to time shares. Fairfield is relatively close, and although I don't golf much any more, I used to and so could easily see keeping things as they are as an excuse to get out at least once a year (and the golf there really is fantastic). And as an (almost) empty-nester, I don't see the dedicated week being all that big a deal, especially as I can work from almost anywhere.

From what little I've read, it sounds like keeping things as they are may be the best deal, but I'd really like to be more informed before I talk to the notoriously hard-sell folks down in Crossville.

Any links to converting, deeded-vs-points, and donation options would be appreciated, as would your general opinions.

Thanks

My opinion is that if you talk to the sales force they will convince you that you need to convert to points. That's the only way they will make any money off you so that is the only thing that they will tell you is the "right" thing to do.

My advice is to not talk to them. There are many Wyndham owners here that will steer you right without facing the sales force.

Keep in mind that you cannot be forced to inherit this if you really don't want it. Others will tell you the best way to get control of it now if you do want to keep it.

Don't shoot the messenger, but...

Cinci Jeff said:

My mom has an 18th week timeshare in Fairfield Glade, TN, and is asking me if I would like to have it. She is aging, and is beginning to worry about what will happen when she passes.

I believe she can pass it on to me, although I don't really know yet how that will work. But the last time she used it, she was asked if she would like to convert it to Wyndham points.

I am planning to stay at the resort this year, and while I was there, was hoping to learn enough to make a decision on whether to:

1) have it transferred to my name "as-is"
2) have it converted to points
3) determine how best to donate it.

I've owned at Disney for 15 years, but that is my only exposure to time shares. Fairfield is relatively close, and although I don't golf much any more, I used to and so could easily see keeping things as they are as an excuse to get out at least once a year (and the golf there really is fantastic). And as an (almost) empty-nester, I don't see the dedicated week being all that big a deal, especially as I can work from almost anywhere.

From what little I've read, it sounds like keeping things as they are may be the best deal, but I'd really like to be more informed before I talk to the notoriously hard-sell folks down in Crossville.

Any links to converting, deeded-vs-points, and donation options would be appreciated, as would your general opinions.

Thanks

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I don't know this particular resort at all, but be aware in advance that a conversion to Wyndham points (...btw, sales weasels don't pick and can't lower the "conversion" cost figure --- and don't really materially benefit from your doing so) is likely to cost you $2k plus. With Wyndham ownerships (including converted fixed weeks) often seen offered for free in TUG's "Bargain Deals", I cannot imagine that an additional $2k plus expenditure would be money well spent for you.

I gave away (for free) a Wyndham fixed week which had already been converted (...by a prior owner, not by me) to 182k Club Wyndham points and I still had to pay the transfer fee out of my own pocket in order to even find a willing recipient. In short, regardless of what your family member(s) may have originally paid "way back when", the actual market value today is certainly much less (if, in fact, there is any at all).

P.S. You won't be able to "donate" this ownership, at least not without paying some serious coin out of pocket (likely a minimum of $1.5k, plus a $299 Wyndham-mandated transfer fee). No one wants a "donation" of something which, if more more accurately and truthfully described, is actually a financial liability with its' own built-in, annual, permanent (and ever-increasing) cost obligations. By any possible standard or measure, that type of "gift" really isn't any form or flavor of "donation".

In short, after you visit (presumably very soon, since week 18 is very early May), my bet is that the only financially realistic option you'll likely consider seriously is to maybe accept the transfer of ownership and just use the week 18, as is, (paying the mandatory annual maintenance fees, or just let it go upon your Mom's passing.
In any event, know in advance that you are not obligated to "inherit" this ownership / obligation, unless you willfully and voluntarily want and choose to do so.

csxjohn said:

My opinion is that if you talk to the sales force they will convince you that you need to convert to points.

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That almost sounds like a dare . Although I'm not exactly proud of it, I'm not really a very nice person. It might be fun to see if I could make them cry. :hysterical:

theo said:

In short, after you visit (presumably very soon, since week 18 is very early May), my bet is that the only financially realistic option you'll likely consider seriously is to accept the transfer of ownership and just use the week 18, as is (paying annual maintenance fees to do so), or just let it go upon your Mom's passing later. In any event, you are not obligated to "inherit" this obligation, unless you willfully and voluntarily choose to do so.

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So just out of curiosity, if there were no conversion fee, would the points be a better option (assuming similar MFs)?

Cinci Jeff said:

So just out of curiosity, if there were no conversion fee, would the points be a better option (assuming similar MFs)?

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It's a purely hypothetical question, since there is a mandatory, non-negotiable conversion fee, of predetermined cost (over $2k). That's simply a fact, welcome or not.

Points would allow you to apply those points for space (...if available) somewhere else besides Fairfield Glade, within the Wyndham system. Then again, the conversion might not actually yield enough points for you to go where you want, when you want to go there, in the size unit you seek. Wyndham has charts very clearly specifying the points requirements for different places / seasons / unit sizes. Have you checked out those important details and figures yet?

Your maintenance fees wouldn't change by much if you "converted", so you already know that (ball park) annual figure. In essence, you could still reserve and use the underlying deeded fixed week ('tho you would have to actively "reserve" it 10 months in advance under what Wyndham calls "Advance Reservation Priority" a.k.a. "ARP").

I vote for status quo! To transfer now would need to pay Closing Company around $150(unless a little legal savvy) plus $299 to Wyndham.

Converting would cost around $2,500 and would have to pay $118 annual POA fee! Since you could buy on e-bay for a buck no way.

Sales weasels are forbidden by 30 Rules of Conduct from giving legal advice.

Sales weasels are on commission and have to sell something to pay their bills

You could pay $89 for RCI membership and exchange through them.

No charity wants it and all charge.

You can use search function here to look for applicable prior posts!

theo said:

It's a purely hypothetical question, since there is a mandatory conversion fee, of predetermined cost (and it's over $2k).

Points would allow you to use them to reserve space (if available) somewhere else besides Fairfiled Glade, within the Wyndham system. Then again, the conversion might not actually yield enough points for you to go where you want, when you want to go there. Wyndham has charts very clearly specifiying the points requirements for different places / seasons / unit sizes.

Your maintenance fees would not change by much, if at all, if you "converted", so you already know that figure. In essence, you could still reserve and use the underlying deeded fixeed week (although you would then have to actually "reserve" it 10 months in advance under what Wyndham calls "Advance Reservation Priority or "ARP").

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So is there a price point where it might make sense?

I know people give away their Wyndham timeshares, and so is anything other than "free" too much to pay for a conversion?

Cinci Jeff said:

That almost sounds like a dare . Although I'm not exactly proud of it, I'm not really a very nice person. It might be fun to see if I could make them cry. :hysterical:

The problem with that is that if they question your intelligence or your love for your wife, you may end up in jail and one of them in the hospital. I just stay away.

So just out of curiosity, if there were no conversion fee, would the points be a better option (assuming similar MFs)?

Click to expand...

theo said:

..Your maintenance fees would not change by much, if at all, if you "converted", so you already know that figure. In essence, you could still reserve and use the underlying deeded fixeed week (although you would then have to actually "reserve" it 10 months in advance under what Wyndham calls "Advance Reservation Priority or "ARP").

Click to expand...

I'm not 100% sure on this since I'm still trying to lean this Wyndham system but I think that if you convert to points you will have an additional "program fee" that you will pay every year to have the right to use your points. This will be an increase in your current MFs.

csxjohn said:

I'm not 100% sure on this since I'm still trying to lean this Wyndham system but I think that if you convert to points you will have an additional "program fee" that you will pay every year to have the right to use your points. This will be an increase in your current MFs.

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Yes, the Program Fee is $0.56/1000 points, with an annual minimum of around $127 - $138 (it used to be $118). I have plenty of points, so I don't worry about the minimum.

The program fee allows the use of points at any resort in the Wyndham system.

csxjohn said:

I'm not 100% sure on this since I'm still trying to lean this Wyndham system but I think that if you convert to points you will have an additional "program fee" that you will pay every year to have the right to use your points. This will be an increase in your current MFs.

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See post #6!

"Converting would cost around $2,500 and would have to pay $118 annual POA fee! Since you could buy on e-bay for a buck no way."

Cinci Jeff said:

So is there a price point where it might make sense?

I know people give away their Wyndham timeshares, and so is anything other than "free" too much to pay for a conversion?

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Some are given away, but there are others (usually the low MF resorts) that command a bit of a premium.

I would say the benefit to convert comes from how many points one would get in return. To pay $2k for a 500k point conversion in a high-demand resort (like Ocean Blvd in Myrtle Beach), it is possibly worth it since a contract of that size would cost about that much or more to buy on eBay. But you have to factor in what you could sell the fixed unit for (if anything) and then add the cost to purchase.

In your case, how big is the unit? Fairfield Galde does not convert well, with a 2BR getting only 126k points for Week 18, and a lockoff getting 182k.

You can find contracts of that size for almost free (especially at the Glade), and around $1000 even at a desirable low mf resort.

uscav8r said:

Yes, the Program Fee is $0.56/1000 points, with an annual minimum of around $127 - $138 (it used to be $118). I have plenty of points, so I don't worry about the minimum.

The program fee allows the use of points at any resort in the Wyndham system.

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Nor sure where you are getting information.

Sans Plus Partners POA Fee is minimum $118 for 2014.

With Plus Partners $137 for 2014.

PR is $.63 / 1,000 for first million and $.57 for rest!

The POA Fee is mandated by VOI Trust of 1991 as revised. One's Wyndham ownership is converted to symbolic points which are administered by Trust.

Trust provides reservation service, accounting, "free" RCI membership, owner relations, etc.

RCI TPU - Week 18

Checking on the RCI website and the Deposit Calculator...it looks like a Week 18 at Fairfield Glade is: 14 TPU for 2 Bedroom or 12 TPU for 1 Bedroom. That isn't a lot of points so that particular week probably doesn't have a lot of trading power in any other system either. The studios are 11 TPU and 4 bedrooms are 18.

csxjohn said:

....I think that if you convert to points you will have an additional "program fee" that you will pay every year to have the right to use your points. This will be an increase in your current MFs.

Click to expand...

Correct, although the post-conversion increase (just over $10 per month additional) would be about $130 per year --- not very much, in the grand scheme of things.

The real "show stopper" (...to me, anyhow) remains the fact that "conversion" would involve a mandatory and unavoidable out of pocket expenditure of about $2.5k and I simply cannot imagine any scenario which justifies paying that cost, particularly with Wyndham ownerships (many with 182k or more points --- likely considerably more than the OP would get for a Fairfield Glade conversion) often being available and offered for free, including quite regularly right here in the TUG "Bargain Deals". Finally, I'd bet that the "cost / points ratio" after conversion would not be very attractive, making it difficult (...maybe even impossible) to part with later --- even for free.

So consensus seems to be to keep it as a dedicated week (assuming I don't have to pay anything/much for the transfer from my mom), or maybe look into what happens if you let it lapse.

I guess I'll have to see how the property and courses have been kept up (it's been several years since I've been). I also think I have to factor in the small discount I'd get for golf, but it's really not very much.

What I don't want to do is compare it to my Disney stays. I pay twice as much in MFs there, and so would expect twice the accommodations (or conversely, half the accommodations at Fairfield). But even with all the Orlando properties, it would still be hard to convince me you'd find much better courses than what they offer at Fairfield.

uscav8r said:

Some are given away, but there are others (usually the low MF resorts) that command a bit of a premium.

I would say the benefit to convert comes from how many points one would get in return. To pay $2k for a 500k point conversion in a high-demand resort (like Ocean Blvd in Myrtle Beach), it is possibly worth it since a contract of that size would cost about that much or more to buy on eBay. But you have to factor in what you could sell the fixed unit for (if anything) and then add the cost to purchase.

In your case, how big is the unit? Fairfield Galde does not convert well, with a 2BR getting only 126k points for Week 18, and a lockoff getting 182k.

You can find contracts of that size for almost free (especially at the Glade), and around $1000 even at a desirable low mf resort.

Click to expand...

My thoughts!

Keep in mind the olde car sales person tricks.

You go in and decide on $30K supersudser. They will give $4K trade in on shot rod and monthly payment for 4 years of $612.29. Of course, no way I can afford.

So salesman disappears for about 15 minutes and has a smoke and cup of coffee. Then comes back disheveled holding ass and says since you are BFF I got your trade in upped to $5K and payment down to $361.56 and whispers over 7 years at higher interest rate!

You are in hogger's heaven and sign not noting total cost goes from around $30K to $50K with added interest.


Likewise with TS resales. Veteran Tuggers and savvy Internet buyers know there is inverse relation in price and MF.

Simple example:


Cost $2,000 up front and MF $400 for 20 years or $10K!

Cost $1.00 up front and MF $500 a year for 20 years or $10K!

Ignores time cost of up front money and likely hood new resorts with Developer subsidy MFs will increase faster!

You gotta run the numbers!

pacodemountainside said:

Nor sure where you are getting information.

Sans Plus Partners POA Fee is minimum $118 for 2014.

With Plus Partners $137 for 2014.

PR is $.63 / 1,000 for first million and $.57 for rest!

The POA Fee is mandated by VOI Trust of 1991 as revised. One's Wyndham ownership is converted to symbolic points which are administered by Trust.

Trust provides reservation service, accounting, "free" RCI membership, owner relations, etc.

Click to expand...

Ok, it's the dreaded "off-by-one" error on my part (.57 vs .56). I have Plus Partners, hence the higher than $118 number (as reported on other thread here on TUG). I can't seem to find the actual numbers for minimum Program Fee on the website (other than the pay-per-use type fees), though. Seems non-developer purchase remains at $118 per your info. A few bucks here or there is not the end of the world, but thanks for the correction.

Sounds like the OP's parents brought this FIXED WEEK from the developer. Any conversion to points would make this a developer deed /points.

I hope the OP has taken the time to SEE how many points the deed would be if they convert it. And OP would also have Plus Partners.

To me, the OP has to decide IF using the FIXED WEEK is for them and their family. They would NOT be the first people who like that connection to years of vacationing with their parents and siblings while many others have no emotional connection of that like. And the costs would increase (as MFs do) and do add up over the years.

pacodemountainside said:

My thoughts!

Keep in mind the olde car sales person tricks.

You go in and decide on $30K supersudser. They will give $4K trade in on shot rod and monthly payment for 4 years of $612.29. Of course, no way I can afford.

So salesman disappears for about 15 minutes and has a smoke and cup of coffee. Then comes back disheveled holding ass and says since you are BFF I got your trade in upped to $5K and payment down to $361.56 and whispers over 7 years at higher interest rate!

You are in hogger's heaven and sign not noting total cost goes from around $30K to $50K with added interest.


Likewise with TS resales. Veteran Tuggers and savvy Internet buyers know there is inverse relation in price and MF.

Simple example:


Cost $2,000 up front and MF $400 for 20 years or $10K!

Cost $1.00 up front and MF $500 a year for 20 years or $10K!

Ignores time cost of up front money and likely hood new resorts with Developer subsidy MFs will increase faster!

You gotta run the numbers!

Click to expand...

Absolutely need to run the (specific) numbers. There are exceptions to the low mf/higher purchase price rule of thumb, in places that don't come up for sale often or are highly desired location for ARP despite mid-range mf. For instance Ocean Blvd 501k contract just sold on eBay for over $2600 and I would not consider that resort a "low" mf, though it is lower than CWA (to me it is on the low part of the mid-range resorts that are +/- 10% of CWA).

Last month a 300k Steamboat Springs sold for over $3200, more than $.01/ point which is almost twice the (until recently) going rate. That likely falls into your low mf paradigm, but that resort very rarely comes up for sale, so perhaps that was another driving factor on the high (at least higher than I expected) final bid.

vacationhopeful said:

Sounds like the OP's parents brought this FIXED WEEK from the developer. Any conversion to points would make this a developer deed /points.

I hope the OP has taken the time to SEE how many points the deed would be if they convert it. And OP would also have Plus Partners.

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I don't know how many points I would get, but the postings here seem to indicate around 125K, and I don't have any idea what Plus Partners is, or how it might affect me.

If 125K were enough to get me, say, a 1BR or Studio for two weeks anywhere in the US (with one of those weeks being in high-season), I might want to seriously consider it (this is basically what I can get with my DVC points). But the sense I get is that 125K won't get me much, that the conversion cost would be overpriced even if it could, and that I might not even be able to find out how many points I can get without talking to the salesman (which I really don't have a problem with - I said no three times to various companies before buying at Disney).

But since I already have points with another company, the concept of being able to use my timeshare points anywhere at anytime is already an option. This would be a lot harder decision if this were the only timeshare I was going to own.

vacationhopeful said:

To me, the OP has to decide IF using the FIXED WEEK is for them and their family. They would NOT be the first people who like that connection to years of vacationing with their parents and siblings while many others have no emotional connection of that like. And the costs would increase (as MFs do) and do add up over the years.

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I actually have little emotional connection to the property. I was an adult the first time I was there with my family, and even though there are some fond memories, it's not enough to tie me in. I could walk away as easy as not.

Can anyone make an argument for why I might want to convert these (the arguments against seem clear), or what factors may lesson the counter arguments?

Is there anything I could ask for in a negotiation that might sway the deal to my favor, including lower costs, additional points, a higher level(?) of ownership, etc?

Forget about what they can or will do, and tell me what it would take for you, the savvy owners, to consider the conversion a good deal.

Cinci Jeff said:

Can anyone make an argument for why I might want to convert these (the arguments against seem clear), or what factors may lesson the counter arguments?

Is there anything I could ask for in a negotiation that might sway the deal to my favor, including lower costs, additional points, a higher level(?) of ownership, etc?

Forget about what they can or will do, and tell me what it would take for you, the savvy owners, to consider the conversion a good deal.

Click to expand...

One way to evaluate it is to figure what it would take to get the same thing. As others have said, that level of points with what would end up being a pretty high MF/K would be very lucky to fetch a $1.00 bid on ebay. I believe the MF's for 2BRs in the Glade are about $700 now (mine are a little higher than that, maybe $730). Mine would convert as a summer week to 154K points. Post conversion, mine would have a $/K of $5.51 (if that were the only contract in my account). Not terrible, but not great. I would consider doing it for mine only if I were already making a purchase to PIC weeks and (had virtually no incredible cost - just the $189 fee) to get to a VIP level. If I'm right about your MF's and points (assuming it's not a lockoff) - the converted points would run $6.49/K if you would be subject to the minimum. Quite honestly, people can't give away points contracts with that ratio unless it is very desirable ARP, like Glacier Canyon. You can check completed ebay listings to see some comparisons.

Points are certainly more flexible, but these particular points would, in my opinion, be too expensive for this to make sense.

Bigrob said:

One way to evaluate it is to figure what it would take to get the same thing. As others have said, that level of points with what would end up being a pretty high MF/K would be very lucky to fetch a $1.00 bid on ebay. I believe the MF's for 2BRs in the Glade are about $700 now (mine are a little higher than that, maybe $730). Mine would convert as a summer week to 154K points. Post conversion, mine would have a $/K of $5.51 (if that were the only contract in my account). Not terrible, but not great. I would consider doing it for mine only if I were already making a purchase to PIC weeks and (had virtually no incredible cost - just the $189 fee) to get to a VIP level. If I'm right about your MF's and points (assuming it's not a lockoff) - the converted points would run $6.49/K if you would be subject to the minimum. Quite honestly, people can't give away points contracts with that ratio unless it is very desirable ARP, like Glacier Canyon. You can check completed ebay listings to see some comparisons.

Points are certainly more flexible, but these particular points would, in my opinion, be too expensive for this to make sense.

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Yes, it's a 2BR, and yes, it's just under $700/year.

My thinking was that if there was a reason Wyndham might want the property converted, then there might be a little leverage to ask for things to make the deal more even.

But it sounds like there's really nothing they could offer that would be equal to or better than you could get on the secondary market.

Correct?

In other words, a "free" (to me) week at the Glade for nothing more than MFs is the best deal I can make with this (which ironically, as the child of the original owner, would have been one of the primary selling points).

Cinci Jeff said:

Yes, it's a 2BR, and yes, it's just under $700/year.

My thinking was that if there was a reason Wyndham might want the property converted, then there might be a little leverage to ask for things to make the deal more even.

But it sounds like there's really nothing they could offer that would be equal to or better than you could get on the secondary market.

Correct?

In other words, a "free" (to me) week at the Glade for nothing more than MFs is the best deal I can make with this (which ironically, as the child of the original owner, would have been one of the primary selling points).

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That would be my take. As I mentioned I have a fixed week at Fairfield Glade also... I enjoy going and from that perspective don't regret it. But really only the prime season lockoffs generate enough points to even consider a conversion, and even then only if you're doing something else at the same time that makes it worthwhile.

As others have said... you don't "have" to take it (assuming you're not already on the deed). If you'd rather have the points, you'll have plenty of options to find them cheap. There may be resort discounts available at Glade and you may enjoy the flexibility of going for less than a full week, so you do want to consider whether you want to inherit it or not.

Bigrob said:

That would be my take. As I mentioned I have a fixed week at Fairfield Glade also... I enjoy going and from that perspective don't regret it. But really only the prime season lockoffs generate enough points to even consider a conversion, and even then only if you're doing something else at the same time that makes it worthwhile.

As others have said... you don't "have" to take it (assuming you're not already on the deed). If you'd rather have the points, you'll have plenty of options to find them cheap. There may be resort discounts available at Glade and you may enjoy the flexibility of going for less than a full week, so you do want to consider whether you want to inherit it or not.

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As bad as this sounds, one factor for me will be the connectivity to the internet (preferably a wired connection).

In my job, I can work anywhere with a reliable connection, and one of my assumptions is that if I had to, I could work while I was there (flex my time - play golf in the morning & work after that). As this would never be my primary vacation, knowing I could work if I HAD to would help with the decision making.

In fact, that's what I'm doing this year. Family & friends will come down for the weekend, and then I will stay the remainder of the week and work, play a little golf, and try and come to a decision on what to do. One way or the other, I need to make a decision before the next time fees are billed.