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WEEKS owners - FACTS/QUESTIONS - new RCI Program

MichaelColey

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If you go through the whole points video, it seems the search capability for points is being upgraded to kinda match weeks
I just watched the video again, and it looks like the RCI Weeks search within RCI Points is being updated. Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with the same restrictive search as before for RCI Points reservations.
 

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economies of scale? number of members vs. operating costs?

just a guess
 

matbec

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Does anyone know why they are charging Canadians higher fees? When the loony was 70 or 80% of the USD that made since. When they are virtually at par it does not.

According to the fine print at the bottom of the Fee Schedule, it says:

"**These services for RCI subscribing members residing in Canada are provided by RCI Canada ULC. The listed fees for Canadian members include GST/HST as applicable to such member’s Province of residence. The GST/HST rate for each Canadian Province, effective July 1, 2010 is as follows: BC – 12%; ON, NB and NF – 13%; NS – 15%; All other Provinces and Territories – 5%."​

Not that I'm necessarily buying it. Since the GST/HST rates are different for each province, that would mean that someone in Alberta would be paying a higher rate for the pre-tax exchange fee than someone in BC.
 

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Please get your facts straight, 'Roger''.

The same arrangement does not exist for all mini-systems and exchange companies.

In many of the mini-systems, the member reserves a specific week with his points, then deposits that specific week into the exchange company. The other members of that exchange company then have access to all of those specific weeks deposited. This is really not at all different from the exchange company perspective from an owner of a fixed week depositing that fixed week into the exchange system or a floating week owner reserving a week and depositing that specific week.

Some exchange companies go one better. With some floating week systems and mini-systems, instead of reserving a week and depositing it with DAE, some of those systems allow their members to deposit their points entitlement or floating week entitlement with DAE. DAE can then have even more leeway to fill its members requests by accessing inventory the same way a member of the mini-system or floating week resort could. I have made three trades this way into mini-systems with DAE myself. I put in a request for Seasons at Knocktopher Abbey in Ireland for April to September. DAE called and told me that they had had a deposit from the Seasons mini-system and in checking on Seasons availibility at that resort, any week in April, May, June, or July was availible in 2BR, and asked me to take my pick. I also did two similar trades with DAE into the Club La Costa mini-system for the French Riviera in July and a UK canalboat in July. DAE had the Club La Costa points deposits and just had to check CLC's availibility.

There was another benefit to trading into a mini-system this way. In my trade on the French Riviera, when we checked in the couple ahead of us were RCI exchangers and we heard the girl at the desk run down about a hundred euros of extra fees they were being charged. We expected the same, but as DAE exchangers, we were treated as CLC members and not charged any of those fees except the metered electricity.

It would certainly be a big improvement if RCI changed its relationship between Points and Weeks so that either 1) Points members reserved a particular week, deposited it into Weeks and then used whatever trading power that week possessed in the Weeks system, or 2) Points members deposited their points to the Weeks system when they traded in, and Weeks members then had access via those points to all inventory in the Points system. Of course there would have to be a fair system of valuation both directions.

''Roger'', I know you are a huge fan of both points and RCI from your past posts, but I really wish you would get your facts straight.

By the way, you might remember Seasons. They were the mini-system that jumped very early after the advent of RCI Points and RCI's rental program from RCI to II, and fired a withering broadside at RCI in their newsletter, detailing how both of these moves by RCI screwed their members. It is unfortunate that that issue of the Seasons newsletter rotated off of their newsletter page on their website. It was great to occaisionally put up a link to it, as it really spelled out the problems with the new RCI.




What Carolinian fails to mention is that this same arrangement exists for all of the hotel and mini-systems with all of the exchange companies. Is Marriott (Hyatt) going to give II members the same access to their inventory as owners(or put up a fire wall preventing anyone in II from having access to any of the Marriott or Hyatt inventory)? Should ther be no more access for RCI members to Disney, Hyatt, VRI? Would Carolinian militate for a firewall between Haspimag and DAE?

Fortunately, none of this is going to happen.
 
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miamidan

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When did the Seasons leave? Wasn't that about 10 years ago? Would Disney have switched if RCI were so unfair? I am really confused. Carolinian you obviously know your history and the business but, you quote things that happened years ago. You mentioned Cendant in a post the other day when did they disband?
 

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Wyndham is, of course, the successor of Cendant. Same wine in a new bottle.

I would have to look up the year Seasons left but I don't believe, off the top of my head, that it was quite that long ago. Not long afterward, Fairfield (now Wyndham) and Trendwest/Worldmark also left RCI for II. Cendant only brought those two back to RCI by buying the companies. The issues raised by Seasons are, in any event, still valid today as RCI's malpractices from that time have continued.

Developers like Disney don't necessarily always look for whats in the best interests of their members in such affiliations. They look at what deal they can do with an exchange company that is in the best interests of the developer. Yes, headaches for a developer caused by exchange company changes can be a reason for a switch, but an exchange company may offer some other enticement to the developer to try to make them live with that headache.



When did the Seasons leave? Wasn't that about 10 years ago? Would Disney have switched if RCI were so unfair? I am really confused. Carolinian you obviously know your history and the business but, you quote things that happened years ago. You mentioned Cendant in a post the other day when did they disband?
 
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"Roger"

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Please get your facts straight, 'Roger''.

The same arrangement does not exist for all mini-systems and exchange companies.
....
Please take a look at the quote in my post. Your complaint was that Points members had full access to any inventory that is found in the RCI Weeks system, but going the other way the access is limited to just what is put into the Weeks system by Points. I stand behind my post. This is a common relationship that is true throughout the mini-systems and RCI, II, DAE.

(If you want to discuss this further, please post your response in the opinion page. Thank you in advance.)
 

Carolinian

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What you are choosing to overlook is the fact that there is a HUGE difference between what a member puts into the exchange system and what RCI might or might not put into Weeks. RCI's official representatives duck the question about what they put back to replace the mooched weeks, and an RCI employee has said they actually put nothing back.

And of course, the relationship between DAE and a number of mini-systems DOES give full access to the inventory of the mini-system.

So, your contention is just purely and simply wrong.


Please take a look at the quote in my post. Your complaint was that Points members had full access to any inventory that is found in the RCI Weeks system, but going the other way the access is limited to just what is put into the Weeks system by Points. I stand behind my post. This is a common relationship that is true throughout the mini-systems and RCI, II, DAE.

(If you want to discuss this further, please post your response in the opinion page. Thank you in advance.)
 
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miamidan

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Carol,

We get it. Ask RCI has not been staffed for what 5 years? Anon had access to the systems but, was he a vacation counselor with vast access to member/inventory details or a back office person who performed complex revenue management details?

Again we get it you don't have trust with RCI. I don't trust Citibank due to what I consider predatory lending practices.

You have some awesome information to share I just wish more of it were more relevant froma timeliness perspective or from a factual rather than speculative measure.

I called and spoke to my resort about timing notification. They advised they were notified sometime early in the spring from a conceptual standpoint and a detailed value perspective in mid-summer. Additionally they advised there were e-learning platforms and regional training seminars all for a non branded, small resort with no affiliation to large management companies. they indicated they thought this was similar to other resorts as well. I own in the u.s. in case that is relevant.
 

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Dandy,

RCI has been even less communicative in that 5 years. That was the only time there was a place where they purported to answer questions. Do you suggest that they have gotten more communicative and actually answered that question since then? Horsehockey! While Anon had access to RCI's computers, I do not know what his job title was, not that it matters.

I do not know how your resort would have any knowledge whatsoever about what info was shared with other resorts, but I have spoken with HOA leaders or resort managers at several resorts on both sides of the Atlantic which were totally left in the dark by RCI on all of this for many months while other resorts were being told about it and in some detail.

Carol,

We get it. Ask RCI has not been staffed for what 5 years? Anon had access to the systems but, was he a vacation counselor with vast access to member/inventory details or a back office person who performed complex revenue management details?

Again we get it you don't have trust with RCI. I don't trust Citibank due to what I consider predatory lending practices.

You have some awesome information to share I just wish more of it were more relevant froma timeliness perspective or from a factual rather than speculative measure.

I called and spoke to my resort about timing notification. They advised they were notified sometime early in the spring from a conceptual standpoint and a detailed value perspective in mid-summer. Additionally they advised there were e-learning platforms and regional training seminars all for a non branded, small resort with no affiliation to large management companies. they indicated they thought this was similar to other resorts as well. I own in the u.s. in case that is relevant.
 

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Carol,

I like the new nickname. I think we can agree to disagree. My resort said they went to a training session where there were 50 or so attendees from other resorts and that there was a training session done. They also said they did some things online etc. I did not get a detailed report card or get into more detail.

You obviously have a much better read on the industry than I or many others on this board ever will. Thanks for your contributions and as I have said before you have a great deal of knowledge.

Maybe they just told the resorts the same day they notified us about the website outage. It is not as if resort staff might be in need of training etc.

Again you are probably right. RCI did this in a blackhole and did not talk to anyone except the big guys.

In all these posts noone else has posted frustrations from their resort it is only you who claim this was done in the dark.
 

Carolinian

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You seem to forget the only resort manager who has posted on this issue, who said his resort was not notified by RCI.

Why a resort needs a heads up is so that they can deal with the angry members who hear about this right when the resorts are sending out their m/f bills. I cannot think of a worse time of the year for resorts for RCI to be doing this.

Carol,

I like the new nickname. I think we can agree to disagree. My resort said they went to a training session where there were 50 or so attendees from other resorts and that there was a training session done. They also said they did some things online etc. I did not get a detailed report card or get into more detail.

You obviously have a much better read on the industry than I or many others on this board ever will. Thanks for your contributions and as I have said before you have a great deal of knowledge.

Maybe they just told the resorts the same day they notified us about the website outage. It is not as if resort staff might be in need of training etc.

Again you are probably right. RCI did this in a blackhole and did not talk to anyone except the big guys.

In all these posts noone else has posted frustrations from their resort it is only you who claim this was done in the dark.
 
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skimble

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The new RCI... the picture gets clearer. Still wondering about some things though..

The new enhancements will give you more control over your vacation planning experience. In addition to the opportunity to exchange your vacation time for another vacation week, you will also have the flexibility to:

Know the Deposit Trading Power of your Week: RCI members often wonder how RCI determines what exchange vacations their Deposit will be able to trade into. Now, you’ll be able to see the trading power value of your deposited week. You’ll see how your trading power changes based on when you deposit, and after depositing, you’ll be able to see how your deposit's trading power compares to the trading power of all available exchange vacations.
See ALL Available Inventory: When searching for an Exchange you will be able to choose to see only the inventory that is equal to or less than the trading power value of your deposited week or all available weeks in the system. By choosing to see all available inventory you’ll even be able to see exchange vacations that require more trading power than that of your available Deposits.
diagram1.gif


Get More Vacation Options with Deposit Credits: Upon exchanging your vacation time, you’ll receive a Deposit Credit for any remaining Deposit Trading Power. That means if you trade down for an Exchange vacation with lower trading power than your Deposit has, you’ll receive a Deposit Credit, for the difference between the Deposit Trading Power and Exchange Trading Power, posted to your account to use by the travel thru date of the original Deposit.
diagram2.gif

You can use this credit in two ways:

Exchange it for another vacation: You can use your Deposit Credit to book a second vacation of equal or lesser value than the credit**. So essentially, you can get two vacations using one week!
Combine it with another Deposit:You can combine your Deposit Credit with another week that you have deposited to increase the trading power of that deposit. With higher Deposit Trading Power you can trade up into an Exchange vacation requiring more trading power than that of your original Deposit, giving you more Exchange options than you had before!
diagram3.gif


(I liked this description from another website.)

Are we going to be able to find out our trade value before we deposit?
 

skimble

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Is RCI going to offer us the ability to purchase extra credits in case we are short? I think I know RCI well enough... to already know my answer.
 

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skimble

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The new enhancements will give you more control over your vacation planning experience. In addition to the opportunity to exchange your vacation time for another vacation week, you will also have the flexibility to:

Know the Deposit Trading Power of your Week: RCI members often wonder how RCI determines what exchange vacations their Deposit will be able to trade into. Now, you’ll be able to see the trading power value of your deposited week. You’ll see how your trading power changes based on when you deposit, and after depositing, you’ll be able to see how your deposit's trading power compares to the trading power of all available exchange vacations.
See ALL Available Inventory: When searching for an Exchange you will be able to choose to see only the inventory that is equal to or less than the trading power value of your deposited week or all available weeks in the system. By choosing to see all available inventory you’ll even be able to see exchange vacations that require more trading power than that of your available Deposits.
diagram1.gif


Get More Vacation Options with Deposit Credits: Upon exchanging your vacation time, you’ll receive a Deposit Credit for any remaining Deposit Trading Power. That means if you trade down for an Exchange vacation with lower trading power than your Deposit has, you’ll receive a Deposit Credit, for the difference between the Deposit Trading Power and Exchange Trading Power, posted to your account to use by the travel thru date of the original Deposit.
diagram2.gif

You can use this credit in two ways:

Exchange it for another vacation: You can use your Deposit Credit to book a second vacation of equal or lesser value than the credit**. So essentially, you can get two vacations using one week!
Combine it with another Deposit:You can combine your Deposit Credit with another week that you have deposited to increase the trading power of that deposit. With higher Deposit Trading Power you can trade up into an Exchange vacation requiring more trading power than that of your original Deposit, giving you more Exchange options than you had before!
diagram3.gif


(I liked this description from another website.)

Are we going to be able to find out our trade value before we deposit?

The reason I posted this separately was because it's concise, explains the heart of the new Weeks program without all complex debate. Sometimes people want to log in to TUG and get a straight-forward answer to the simple stuff without all the inner workings or RCI and their communication with HOAs and management.
The question at the end was to promote discussion, but again it goes to the heart of the new program-- the simple FAQ's.
I would urge you to repost this as it's own thread.
 

itisme

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TP Value of a deposit = TP Value needed to exchange in to the same week ?

What I am still not clear is whether a trading power of a deposit will be same as the trading power required to pull that same deposit.

Say I deposit Resort X, Week 52, more than 9 months out. I am assigned 20 points. When another member wants to exchange into this same week (Resort X, Week 52) will he/she be needing 20 points to exchange into (other than for last call)?

I was under the impression the answer is No. But I am not sure now.
 

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Since this is the thread for FACTS, not the OPINIONS, perhaps a recap:

1) Many resorts were informed about what was happening within RCI's weeks program. Some of those resorts were large resorts, or part of large resort systems, others were small resorts.

2) Some resorts apparently were not informed. Those that we know of are smaller resorts, not affiliated with large resort groups.

3) This change is happening now, in mid-November, 1-3 months before exchange fees are due at many resorts.

4) Come Monday morning, we will all know the value of our weeks relative to all other weeks. There will be a calculator with which we can request the current value of not only our own weeks, but the weeks we would like in exchange.

5) Those RCI members who are either happy about the changes, or don't care, will continue to pay their maintenance fees on time.

6) Those RCI members who are not happy with the changes might get upset, and choose not to pay their maintenance fees. If and when that happens, our HOAs will finally have to face what they should have faced 20 years ago - the fact that some weeks are not worth the maintenance fees on their own, and the HOA needs to find a way to either reduce or eliminate those fees, or provide some other value to those weeks.

What I am still not clear is whether a trading power of a deposit will be same as the trading power required to pull that same deposit.

Say I deposit Resort X, Week 52, more than 9 months out. I am assigned 20 points. When another member wants to exchange into this same week (Resort X, Week 52) will he/she be needing 20 points to exchange into (other than for last call)?

I was under the impression the answer is No. But I am not sure now.
In the video under the RCI Weeks link, it briefly shows a single screen where it appears we will be able to input a resort, unit size and check-in date (or week) and see the trade power - not just the trade power of our own week. If that is in real time, then it is showing us, right now, what it would take to trade in. Thus if you are assigned 20 credits today when you deposit your week, I would also need to spend 20 credits to get it as an exchange today. 2 months from now, I might not have to pay 20 credits - I would pay whatever the going "price" is for that exchange, and if you waited 2 months, you would get the same number of credits.

In essence, that means to get a 60 point exchange, 9 months out (or whenever they are offering full credits) you will need 60 credits. But as time goes on, the value of that deposit will slowly decrease, and someone might be able to take it at 50 credits. The assumption is that a person with 60 credits who wanted it would already have taken it, and they have given those people plenty of opportunity to snag it for full price. If nobody wants it for 50 credits, at some point it might be reduced to 40 credits, and so on, until the 45-day window when it is reduced to 5 credits.

If you have 60 credits, you can reserve the week a year out, knowing you have what you want. Or you can wait and try to get it for 50 credits, but risk someone else grabbing it before you - kind of like a reverse auction.
 
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JudyS

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Since this is the thread for FACTS, not the OPINIONS, perhaps a recap:....
6) Those RCI members who are not happy with the changes might get upset, and choose not to pay their maintenance fees. If and when that happens, our HOAs will finally have to face what they should have faced 20 years ago - the fact that some weeks are not worth the maintenance fees on their own, and the HOA needs to find a way to either reduce or eliminate those fees, or provide some other value to those weeks.....


In essence, that means to get a 60 point exchange, 9 months out (or whenever they are offering full credits) you will need 60 credits. But as time goes on, the value of that deposit will slowly decrease, and someone might be able to take it at 50 credits. ....
These comments sound like opinions, or at least speculation, to me, rather than established facts.

Has RCI said that the "price" of a week will decline between 9 months and 45 days out? Unless RCI has said this in writing, I very much doubt it will work this way. Instead, I bet if someone deposits their week at, say, 4 months out, it will cost the full number of exchange points to reserve that week, even though the owner of the week didn't get full value when they deposited it. That's how RCI Points works -- if I deposit a week I own at less than 120 days out, I don't get full points. But, it generally costs full points to reserve that week, even right before check-in.

As for owners of low-valued weeks getting angry and walking away from their ownerships, that might happen, but there are other possibilities. Those owners might go to other exchange companies, for example. Or, if it's really true that trade value will stay the same, then those owners may be happy because they can get Gold Crown resorts off-season in Orlando, same as before.
 

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maybe i am just naive but, after a recent lawsuit and a major change such as this I can not imagine RCI not notifying every resort. I can imagine every resort not responding or thinking that this is an upsell for points. RCI is owned by a big company and I can only assumem they have a lot of lawyers that ensure things are done by the book...... That is speculation but, as a fact was stated above that they did not contact all I feel safe putting it here..
 

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These comments sound like opinions, or at least speculation, to me, rather than established facts.

Has RCI said that the "price" of a week will decline between 9 months and 45 days out? Unless RCI has said this in writing, I very much doubt it will work this way. Instead, I bet if someone deposits their week at, say, 4 months out, it will cost the full number of exchange points to reserve that week, even though the owner of the week didn't get full value when they deposited it. That's how RCI Points works -- if I deposit a week I own at less than 120 days out, I don't get full points. But, it generally costs full points to reserve that week, even right before check-in.
The picture RCI shows in their video suggests that at any given time you can look up both the "maximum trade value" and the "current trade value" of any given week. We know trade value goes down for deposits as we get closer to use. We also know that trade value required for a given exchange fluctuates over time - it goes down significantly with bulk banking. What we don't know is whether the trade power for those specific deposits goes down, or temporarily decreases for all similar deposits. It would make sense to apply to all such deposits, or sightings might only include the most recently deposited weeks.

Given that they are only showing one calculator, and knowing the value only of what you have to deposit, and what is already in the exchange pool would only be partialy useful, it looks like that value at any given time applies to inventory both going in and coming out.
As for owners of low-valued weeks getting angry and walking away from their ownerships, that might happen, but there are other possibilities. Those owners might go to other exchange companies, for example. Or, if it's really true that trade value will stay the same, then those owners may be happy because they can get Gold Crown resorts off-season in Orlando, same as before.
I posted that in response to Steve - those owners might choose to walk away if they are unhappy enough. His premise is that all owners need to worry about their happiness, for the health of their own resorts - and that RCI has a responsibility to keep them happy.

We will know in a little less than 4 hours
 
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MuranoJo

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In essence, that means to get a 60 point exchange, 9 months out (or whenever they are offering full credits) you will need 60 credits. But as time goes on, the value of that deposit will slowly decrease, and someone might be able to take it at 50 credits. The assumption is that a person with 60 credits who wanted it would already have taken it, and they have given those people plenty of opportunity to snag it for full price. If nobody wants it for 50 credits, at some point it might be reduced to 40 credits, and so on, until the 45-day window when it is reduced to 5 credits.

Mel,
As I recall, the lawsuit legitimized RCI's ability to pull deposits out of the exchange pool & rent or whatever if not taken within 30 days. Have you heard or read anything about that with this new system? I suspect they will still excercise this. :(
 

cpnuser

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Short dated weeks on RCI points

I search for alot of the short dated weeks with my points. I can't find them now, since RCI has had 3 days to change everything. Can anybody tell me in a few simple steps how to search for the short dated weeks? I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
 

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One plus - availibility tables for all areas now

One plus for the new RCI regime is that they now have made similar availibility tables as have been provided in the European version of the RCI Directory availible for all resort areas, split into 4 categories, but divided a bit different than by month. They also have an average of trading power needed for each segment.

Orlando is shown with high availibility all year, but experience would indicate some seasons would be different. South Africa does show a variance but in flipping through the regions in the country it would appear that all time periods in all SA regions are in the two lowest categoies of availibility. The Outer Banks shows to be in the second lowest category all year long, which does not make sense as the summer months should be lower and the dead of winter (weeks 48-50 and 1-6) should be the highest availibility level.

Lots of the average trading power numbers also did not make sense, such as the Charleston, SC area being lower than the Outer Banks. Charleston is one of the highest demand compared to supply areas in the US. The London numbers, particularly April and May also made no sense at all.

Since I have no RCI deposits I cannot check on availiibility although I did try to use their trading power calculator but it is broken. There is no way to enter the week number, although it would take all of the other information.
 
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