Closing company never paid maintenance fees

bogey21 said:

I did just what you say I shouldn't maybe 20 times over the years and never had a problem that wasn't easily corrected. To each his own, I guess!

George

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As long as you are willing to lose 100% of what you are giving, you can be fine I guess.

Think of it like this, you are about to walk into a dealership to buy a car, outside of the dealership is a guy who doesn't work for the car dealer who says "Give me $20k in cash, and I will go in the door to the dealer, negotiate the best price for you, buy the car for you and bring it out to you with whatever money is left over being returned as change".

"You might be scared, but don't worry, I will sign a receipt for you acknowledging that you gave me the money."

Jason245 said:

I closed on a Timeshare a month ago from EBAY. My all in Cost was $0. I paid nothing to closing or seller. In that instance, I was 100% fine without having any protections except for an explicit statement stating that they were current on their fees and an estopple letter showing it. If I was expected to pay maintenance, I would have either :

A) contacted the resort directly and verified that the payment was received by them and then reimbursed the seller for those fees.

B) made the payment directly to the resort as soon as closing occured and I had a valid and acknowledged title.

but then I am crazy like that.

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There is certainly nothing at all "crazy" about what you describe. On the contrary it's a wise and prudent approach. Nonetheless, you might want to just consider and perhaps simply accept that some eBay sellers offer their buyers little or no flexibility in their processes and procedures (...which is just one of numerous other reasons why I personally will have nothing to do with timeshares on eBay). Some sellers offer their buyers only two options: "Take it, or leave it".

"Take it or leave it" is quite straightforward and self-explanatory. For peanuts, some understandably will choose to "take it". Personally, I choose to "leave it" --- even for a "only peanuts total buy in" transaction. YMMV. To each his / her / their own personal decisions and choices.

Now I'm just plain lost...

Jason245 said:

As long as you are willing to lose 100% of what you are giving, you can be fine I guess.

Think of it like this, you are about to walk into a dealership to buy a car, outside of the dealership is a guy who doesn't work for the car dealer who says "Give me $20k in cash, and I will go in the door to the dealer, negotiate the best price for you, buy the car for you and bring it out to you with whatever money is left over being returned as change".

"You might be scared, but don't worry, I will sign a receipt for you acknowledging that you gave me the money."

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And this strange analogy relates how to what might just be a $1.00 (not multi-thousand dollar) resale timeshare purchase on eBay?

Jason245 said:

Since the first COSO framework only came out in 1992 and this incident occured in 1991, it would probably be better called a operational screw up.

In today's environment, if this happened to a large company, and it was due to a design deficiency that was not previously identified (which is nuts since controls around this process would be second most important next to cash controls and it is very easy to implement detective and preventative controls around it), there would probably also be an unemployed director of IA and Operational Risk.

If you are talking about the 2014 issue, This is partially the OPs fault for not using an independent escrow company with sufficient transactional provisions in place to protect them during the transaction.

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LOL that took this off track at a right angle.

That said someone needed yo prepare the HUD3 showing where the monies were going. When I bought a delinquent TS it clearly showed a check to be cut to the HOA for MF and late fees. I signed off and the seller signed off.

Did thay not happen here? A key control of the closing agent.

I just looked at the contract and wanted to clarify some things. I paid $1,635 for the week plus $1,250 maintenance fees for a total of $2,877.95 paid directly to the closing company via e-check. On the contract it states the following: "All payments are held by Title Company until transfer is completed." Transfer was completed on April 25, 2014. They finally paid the maintenance fees November 25, 2014. She said it was an error on their part, but the person that made it does not work there anymore.

theo said:

And this strange analogy relates how to what might just be a $1.00 (not multi-thousand dollar) resale timeshare purchase on eBay?

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If the only money going out of your pocket is $1.00 (no additional cost), the you would be fine with it. By that token the OP apperantly coughed up $1400 in MF + selling price (unknown) + closing costs (Unknown).

The scenario stands as long as you follow my first sentance, as long as you are willing to lose 100% of what you give, you are fine... if you arn't... then you shouldn't do it that way.

SMHarman said:

LOL that took this off track at a right angle.

That said someone needed yo prepare the HUD3 showing where the monies were going. When I bought a delinquent TS it clearly showed a check to be cut to the HOA for MF and late fees. I signed off and the seller signed off.

Did thay not happen here? A key control of the closing agent.

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If the closing agent isn't independent of the seller, I would build in my own control as the buyer.

Denkro said:

I just looked at the contract and wanted to clarify some things. I paid $1,635 for the week plus $1,250 maintenance fees for a total of $2,877.95 paid directly to the closing company via e-check. On the contract it states the following: "All payments are held by Title Company until transfer is completed." Transfer was completed on April 25, 2014. They finally paid the maintenance fees November 25, 2014. She said it was an error on their part, but the person that made it does not work there anymore.

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Were you able to negotiate the language of the contract or was it a take it or leave it situation?

The following is copied from the contract:

3. PROPERTY DESCRIPTION:
 Resort:
Wyndham Shearwater

 Bed & Bath:
2 / 2 (6)
 Float Time:
1-52 / .
 Fixed week #:

 View/Type:
Floating / Ground Floor
 Fixed unit #:

4. TOTAL AMOUNT DUE:

$2,877.95
 Price: $1,136.11
 Closing: $199.00
 Transfer: $299.00
 Maintenance: $1,243.84
5. DEPOSIT AMOUNT:
6. STARTING USE YEAR:2014 /
7. DATE OF CONTRACT: March 19, 2014



I closed on a Wyndham contract this year that took about six months and the prior owner had used both the 2014 and 2015 points. The closing company suggested reversing the deed, but I wanted to keep the contract and was paid for 15 months future months mf. I did give up the 9 months mf before my closing date with Wyndham.

Going into the deal, I expected that I might not be able to do much with the 2014 points, so I'm ok with the deal. In March I plan on booking for 2016.

Your deal seems ok to me. That's an excellent resort that would likely cost much more somewhere else.

Denkro said:

... almost December and now I cannot use my week. ... What would you do?

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Can Wynham provide you either a end-of-year reservation (which you could deposit) or provide you with a replacement week ?

I don't recall that you provided that important info.

Jason245 said:

As long as you are willing to lose 100% of what you are giving, you can be fine I guess.

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My point was I did this well over 20 times and never lost a penny and never had a problem that wasn't quickly resolved. How many Weeks have you bought in the resale market? Are you talking from experience or just bloviating?

George

bogey21 said:

My point was I did this well over 20 times and never lost a penny and never had a problem that wasn't quickly resolved. How many Weeks have you bought in the resale market? Are you talking from experience or just bloviating?

George

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I have purchased one week on Ebay, been involved in 4 personal real estate transactions (one of which almost went to court due to a violation of contract provisions), and have over 10 years of experience in the accounting/finance world (part of which was spent reviewing contracts and being involved with litigation defence).

99% of those listing their week for sale on EBAY may be ligitemate and valid, however if/when there is a dispute or situation that needs to be resolved, it is generally in the best interest of all parties to ensure that there are adequate contract provisions in place to cover the transfer.

For example, there is a generic contract for real estate transactions out there on the web with all kinds of caviots and protections listed for all parties involved (deposit refund clauses, Timing of payments, closing date, escrow clauses, right to see HOA docs, etc...).

Without those protections and those specifics in the contract, it can be very hard to have a judge enforce a contract and creates all kinds of potential for liability and loss.

Depending on how strong the contract is, once you send money to a EBAY seller, you may have very little legal recourse against them (especially if they are in a different state and you sent them cash and they are not an individual).

To put it another way, you could be playing a game of russian roulette, just because your pull of the trigger didn't result in a shot being fired, doesn't mean it can't happen next time. Which is why you need to be ready to accept the potential loss.

Recently there was a situation here where the ebay seller backed out when the buyer got his lawyer involved in the contract.

It's best not to get involved if not comfortable with the seller's terms. On ebay, we're dealing with probabilities. The reward has to be weighted against the potential loss. A rule that I like is to only play with what you can afford to lose.

Those auctions where the seller wants mf paid by the buyer don't appeal to me. Usually you don't have access to the full booking period, so the mf should be discounted.

It's never a bad idea to request the estoppel which would show if the mf has been paid.

Roger830 said:

Recently there was a situation here where the ebay seller backed out when the buyer got his lawyer involved in the contract.

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That probably saved the buyer a ton of trouble and headaches that they would have had if the sale went through. The only reason a reasonable seller would back out of a agreement when an attorney (whom they are not paying for) gets involved, is if something shady is going on.

Maybe I am jaded, but that is my take.

Jason245 said:

I closed on a Timeshare a month ago from EBAY. My all in Cost was $0. I paid nothing to closing or seller. In that instance, I was 100% fine without having any protections except for an explicit statement stating that they were current on their fees and an estopple letter showing it. If I was expected to pay maintenance, I would have either :

A) contacted the resort directly and verified that the payment was received by them and then reimbursed the seller for those fees.

B) made the payment directly to the resort as soon as closing occured and I had a valid and acknowledged title.

but then I am crazy like that.

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B) can't occur, because I don't know of any resort that will allow a title transfer without payments having been made first. "As soon as closing occurred" is a nice dream though.

torontobuyer said:

B) can't occur, because I don't know of any resort that will allow a title transfer without payments having been made first. "As soon as closing occurred" is a nice dream though.

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Then how was it possible for op to close prior to the closing company paying the fee? My understanding of the definition of closing is a legaly recognized change in title that is recorded in the appropriate government agency record books.

2014 seems to have been paid but use is tricky as there are only 3 weeks of the year left.

2015 was not paid. It was not due either (I assume)

Contract signed March 19, 2014. Closing occurred (without maintenance fees being paid) around April 25, 2014. 2014 maintenance fees paid November 25, 2014. At the time 2014 maintenance fees were paid (by the closing company) 2015's were due. The closing company was originally going to pay both 2014 and 2015 fees, but the owner said they were not when it came down to it.

Did you ask Wyndham to book a 2014 week or replacement week so that you can put into an exchange company?