End the stigma of purchasing from developer [ POLL ADDED ABOVE ∆ ]

Beefnot said:

I find it very difficult to believe that if you discovered your personal stockbroker sold you a worthless timeshare for $7k, you would be okay with that.

Click to expand...

He's a stockbroker - why would I care if he does what he can to legally make money for himself with something other than stocks?! It'd be on me, not him, if he sold me something non-stock-related for a higher price than I might have gotten elsewhere.

It occurs to me that Marriott might need as much saving from itself as some TUGgers think timeshare buyers do. For the last couple years they've been buying back Weeks and in many cases offering owners more than can be gotten on any of the usual resale markets. Maybe we should call Marriott and warn them about the perils of paying more for resales than they should.

Beefnot said:

I find it very difficult to believe that if you discovered your personal stockbroker sold you a worthless timeshare for $7k, you would be okay with that.

Click to expand...

Not enough details to reach any sort of a conclusion with this story. For all we know, this was a way for the stock broker to earn a little on the side after some great tips that paid off for the client. There's no way we know the whole story.

Ken555 said:

Not enough details to reach any sort of a conclusion with this story. For all we know, this was a way for the stock broker to earn a little on the side after some great tips that paid off for the client. There's no way we know the whole story.

Click to expand...

You and Sue can find whatever kind of nuance you want, but I'm with pedro47 and uscav8r, if my stockbroker unloaded a crap timeshare on me, we would have a problem. He better have a damn good story that he truly didn't know it was crap, I don't care what kind of returns or tips he provided.

Think this argument has spiraled off into a separate tangent.

I firmly believe that everyone should at least be INFORMED about the resale market before buying a new Timeshare. I cannot think of, nor have I ever seen any valid argument against this theory....nor do I believe any exist.

If one is at least an informed buyer and knows there are options to buy resale, and still wishes to choose to buy retail because of perceived value or a myriad of other reasons, that is perfectly acceptable to me. Everyone buying a Timeshare is over 18 and thus an adult able to make their own decisions...be it good or bad..it is theirs to live with.

I only object to folks who make expensive decisions WITHOUT full knowledge of their options. I have no problem with folks expressing the urgency of quickly gaining this knowledge by rescinding in the short window allowed, then making a fully educated decision at a later time.

Anyone against that philosophy has something to gain, and is most certainly not interested in the customer in the least.

Beefnot said:

You and Sue can find whatever kind of nuance you want, but I'm with pedro47 and uscav8r, if my stockbroker unloaded a crap timeshare on me, we would have a problem. He better have a damn good story that he truly didn't know it was crap, I don't care what kind of returns or tips he provided.

Click to expand...

ROFL. Either you didn't read my post, or you didn't care to comprehend it. Moving on...

SueDonJ said:

Why? He had something to sell and managed to get what TUGgers would call an above-market price for it. What if he was selling a used car or dining room set or watch - would he be a bad stockbroker if he also managed to get above-market prices for any of those things?

Click to expand...

Okay, I may have been a little harsh...
... but let's extend your example to "above-market" prices for the stocks he wants someone to buy. It does bring a smidgen of doubt into his motives. Is he looking out for the buyer's interest, or is he there just to make a buck (remember, he makes a commission on purchase OR sale of stock, not just whether it goes up or down.)

Okay... back on topic...

TUGBrian said:

If one is at least an informed buyer and knows there are options to buy resale, and still wishes to choose to buy retail because of perceived value or a myriad of other reasons, that is perfectly acceptable to me. Everyone buying a Timeshare is over 18 and thus an adult able to make their own decisions...be it good or bad..it is theirs to live with.

Click to expand...

I sort of fit that description. We purchased WorldMark from Trendwest in 2001, 13 years ago. I knew a little about timeshares at that time, most of which indicated they were bad. I knew essentially nothing about WorldMark before we attended the presentation where we bought. I also knew that Colorado law gave me the right to rescind my purchase if I did it in a timely manner.

During that rescission period I found a lot on the internet about WorldMark, including the fact that a resale market did exist for it. That was an important factor, I knew if it didn't work out I could sell it. Not at what I paid through Trendwest, but 13 years ago the price difference was not nearly as severe as it is now. I read some of the articles here on TUG, overvalued some of the goodies they threw in (RCI bonus weeks for example), and decided to keep what we had purchased. We had stayed in rented condos on some of our vacations and knew it was a much better way to go than staying in hotels.

Now 13 years later when I look at our reservation history on the WorldMark web site I see 124 separate reservations for anywhere from 1 to 10 days each that we have made in that 13 year period. Five are for upcoming trips, a few were for friends and family, but most are ones we booked and used ourselves. We have also booked and used a fair amount of weeks through RCI and II that we would not have had access to without our timeshare ownership.

I have no regrets over that original purchase. I could have rescinded and saved some money, but I also know I have a tendency to procrastinate. I'd probably still be thinking about it and we'd be staying in cramped hotels instead of enjoying spacious condos.

uscav8r said:

Okay, I may have been a little harsh...
... but let's extend your example to "above-market" prices for the stocks he wants someone to buy. It does bring a smidgen of doubt into his motives. Is he looking out for the buyer's interest, or is he there just to make a buck (remember, he makes a commission on purchase OR sale of stock, not just whether it goes up or down.)

Okay... back on topic...

Click to expand...

That's different. If I'm paying him to be my stockbroker then of course I want him to make stock portfolio decisions/advice that protect my investment as much as is reasonably possible. If he doesn't, he loses me as a customer.

Whatever deals we might make otherwise as acquaintances? Like I said, the Buyer Beware tenet is on me. A timeshare salesman or private seller is not charged in any way with protecting a phantom "investment value" of a timeshare. The onus is always on the buyer no matter who the seller might be.

TUGBrian said:

Think this argument has spiraled off into a separate tangent.

I firmly believe that everyone should at least be INFORMED about the resale market before buying a new Timeshare. I cannot think of, nor have I ever seen any valid argument against this theory....nor do I believe any exist.

If one is at least an informed buyer and knows there are options to buy resale, and still wishes to choose to buy retail because of perceived value or a myriad of other reasons, that is perfectly acceptable to me. Everyone buying a Timeshare is over 18 and thus an adult able to make their own decisions...be it good or bad..it is theirs to live with.

I only object to folks who make expensive decisions WITHOUT full knowledge of their options. I have no problem with folks expressing the urgency of quickly gaining this knowledge by rescinding in the short window allowed, then making a fully educated decision at a later time.

Anyone against that philosophy has something to gain, and is most certainly not interested in the customer in the least.

Click to expand...

I completely agree.

Hi all,
We purchased our timeshare from the developer, and yes, we had not heard of TUG at that time. The upside is we really wanted a time share at this resort (Buganvillas Vacation Club) and we got just what we wanted, although it would have been all the more attractive at a lower price. When we found TUG, we realized there was a whole world of reasales so we decided that the next one we purchased would be resale. We love that we will have out unit for many years to come and we couldn't be happier with the resort and the location. Knowing what we do now, thanks to TUG, it is also WAY easier to blow off any sales presentations and simply enjoy our vacation. Nevertheless, we are so pleased to have found TUG. Can't wait to go back next May!
Netski19

Have to smile to myself here............ when I read this thread (good one, BTW), I keep having this vision of Hester Prynne with a big red "D" .


I think it's just me.






-

We purchased our Marriott timeshare in 2000, well before TUG existed. In addition, the place was just opening up, so a resale was not possible. We enjoy our yearly visit to Park City, happily pay our assessment and ski for two weeks with the knowledge that our decision was best for us. So whatever is penned by the group, we do not feel stigmatized.

aberlin said:

We purchased our Marriott timeshare in 2000, well before TUG existed. In addition, the place was just opening up, so a resale was not possible. We enjoy our yearly visit to Park City, happily pay our assessment and ski for two weeks with the knowledge that our decision was best for us. So whatever is penned by the group, we do not feel stigmatized.

Click to expand...

For the record TUG started in 1993 but your other points are still valid.

DeniseM said:

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with ace2000.

I believe that the majority of Tuggers actually bought their first timeshare from the developer,*** so I don't believe they are "stigmatizing" others who do the same. But we are saying, "Don't make the same mistake I did."

Compared to many other websites, TUG is polite and restrained, but we are pretty frank about what IS and what IS NOT a good deal. If a poster doesn't want to hear that, then TUG may not be a good fit for them. YMMV


***Let's find out - I added a poll at the very top of the page.

Click to expand...

Denise, how 'bout a third category, "signed contract with developer but rescinded in time" - that's what I did (and later bought resale) so I'm not sure which of the current 2 categories to check.

If you don't add a third category, how would you classify folks like me?

Laurie said:

Denise, how 'bout a third category, "signed contract with developer but rescinded in time" - that's what I did (and later bought resale) so I'm not sure which of the current 2 categories to check.

If you don't add a third category, how would you classify folks like me?

Click to expand...

You didn't buy from the developer, so you choose "resale."

Developer

My wife and I went to Maui after our son was born about a year later. We stayed at the westin Kanapali (sp) There was a sign up come take the time share presentation, were 30 years old and they gave you 100 dollars. So we sat through it, no pressure at all. We left thought about it and decided to buy, back then it cost us 18k for a 2bdrm lock off island view, it was still pre-construction. I have never regretted that purchase. Though I rarely go back the 148k options and 81k points serve me well, the taxes suck but oh well. When I go for a "refresh" at starwood and they pull my info they say wow you got some deal there. I do agree.

There are some you just cannot buy on the resale market. Try getting westin ST. John. Good luck, oh and I own there also and also from the developer. I like being able to change to options and points and not have to worry about if its a mandatory resort or not. I guess if money is an issue then resale is good, for me the places I want to go really don't get sold that way.

rog2867 said:

There are some you just cannot buy on the resale market. Try getting Westin St. John.

Click to expand...

This isn't correct - WSJ VGV and BV phases both have resale (and many people buy these - I know quite a few. We bought our weeks on the resale market). The only phase that you cannot get is the new CV phase since it has not been built yet (give it a few years...).

I found TUG before we went to Hawaii on a Starwood timeshare promotional trip, so knew what to expect, and we weren't about to buy a timeshare. Yet, we still bought, but then rescinded. The sales people are good! I loved the concept but we couldn't spare the cash then because we needed to put three kids through college.

I think that was the most important piece of information that I learned from TUG. If you can't lay out the cash - all of the cash - for your purchase, you shouldn't be purchasing a timeshare. It is a true luxury item, not the "investment" that the salesman talked about. I know some have done it successfully, but it wasn't going to work in our situation. Times change, we got the kids through college, there were some real bargains in the timeshare market for a couple of years, and now we are happily timesharing thanks to the knowledge shared on TUG.

IMO, if someone wants to buy from the developer and feels good about their purchase, why knock them? They are happy and it's their money to spend as they wish.

I am kind of amazed that as I write this, the poll is exactly tied. The same number of TUggers first timeshare purchase was resale as those whose first was a developer purchase. (at 79) I had surmised going in that it would be developer purchasers. A tie, is a tie- at this point.

Jim

Passepartout said:

I am kind of amazed that as I write this, the poll is exactly tied. The same number of TUggers first timeshare purchase was resale as those whose first was a developer purchase. (at 79) I had surmised going in that it would be developer purchasers. A tie, is a tie- at this point.

Jim

Click to expand...

No surprise here. Many only find TUG after purchase.

So OP, did you have a point? If it is that lack of knowledge should not be stigmatized, I have to disagree. Would you make the same decision now that you know there is a resale market? To me that is the question, and why most posts are negative to developer purchases.

Bought and only own DVC directly. Even added on directly. I have no regrets. We probably should have bought our add-ons resale at the time since there were no restrictions on them. If we were to add-on a small purchase again, would add-on directly since I like the choices/flexibility. Any add-ons more than 50 points - might try resale.

Members who use points for cruises get told over and over how it's a bad use of points. It all depends on how one looks at it. I am not going to go on explaining it. We have cruised 5 times and used a combination of points and cash. No regrets and will do it again.

Having said that - even though we don't own many timeshares, don't have the experience as many here and don't post much - I do read quiet a bit and really find everyone trying to help/inform the new buyer who is still on time to rescind and might not know he has other options. Some have been told rescind if you can if not - congrats and enjoy it!

The other two boards I frequent (and yes my user name is the same) - which I enjoy spending a lot of time in - many members who bought direct are made to feel like they did wrong. One board more than the other - someone posted once they don't want to admit they bought direct. The nicer board though - one member - went on to call members who bought direct "morons". I just avoid his posts/threads. I know he does not speak for everyone

SmithOp said:

Sometimes I feel lucky that my first was a developer purchase, if I had started buying off eBay without knowing what I was doing no telling what I would have ended up with. We own a package that met our needs for ten years before I found TUG when I wanted to learn more about trading and using other systems. We were perfectly happy booking our home week every year.

I am of the opinion that if you can't pay cash and absorb the annual fees, you have no business owning and should save up and rent for cash when you can afford the vacation. My wife and I are savers, we have no loans other than home mortgage.

I feel bad for the owners that have small point packages with a high interest loan and maintenance fees, they really need a heavy dose of Dave Ramsey.

As far as what other people say on here, take it with a grain of salt, its an internet forum. I speak my mind and am not too concerned with what others think or say, I live by the saying "what others think of me is none of my business".

Click to expand...

This poster hit it on the head with regard to why many people end up selling timeshares bought from the developer and taking a beating on it: "if you can't pay cash and absorb the annual fees, you have no business owning."

This is precisely why I looked for resales. I took the presentation tour and knew I wanted to come back to the resort. The developer price was just way out of my range. I was able to find my daughter's birthday week and my birthday week as resales. Luckily, they were both studios, since a wise person advised me to buy a studio since unless it's Christmas week, the resort will upgrade at check in to larger units to encourage guests not only to spend more money (goodwill) but to invite others to come along in the future. We ended up doing both!

Friends of mine just purchased a TS in Hawaii from the developer. They did not rescind during the rescission period and now have regrets and concerns about the payment obligation.

Even in Hawaii there are resale prices under $5,000 which are amazingly low compared to developer prices!

There is no stigma. People purchase TS's for a variety of reasons and in line with their personal needs, wants, and desires. If for whatever reason you want to go to a certain location every (other) year, and prefer a certain time period and location, purchasing from a developer may well make sense, as was the case with 3 out of 4 of my mother's siblings. That all said, then there are simpleton tightwads such as myself. With our resale, for slightly more than the cost of a room at a Motel 8 in downtown Detroit (when considering MF, Account subscription, and exchange fees), we can take a week or two each year and stay in much better accommodations in much better locations. Obviously, my needs and desires are different than those of my uncles'. Similarly, people get married for different reasons....I still don't know if my wife picked me for love, my beauty, or my ability to reach items on high shelves.:hysterical:

arlock said:

I still don't know if my wife picked me for love, my beauty, or my ability to reach items on high shelves.:hysterical:

Click to expand...

Don't ask. You might not like the answer. Step stools are cheap.