Excellent point, Ken. And I probably would fly Iberia again if there were no better choice.
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Trip to Italy, would like input
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Like your experience with Iberia, Delta ticketed me via CDG on Air France with just a 45 minute connection. When I questioned it they said it was a legal connection. My ticket was changed day of flight, however, due to Delta delay out of LAX (though they made up the lost time). Anyway, when in CDG (which I now had a 4 hour connection) I asked AF customer service what is the minimum connection from an transatlantic flight to an EU AF flight...and was told not to accept anything less than 90 minutes. I've never connected in Madrid (though I have started and ended flights there...) but CDG is my least favorite airport in Europe and I will go out of my way to avoid it. The only exception would be if I ever decide to visit Paris (which isn't looking likely these days, even though I'd like to, due to personal reasons).
I'm sure you wouldn't accept an Iberia flight in future with just a 45 minute connection, either.
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This is still consuming a considerable amount of my time. It's down to selecting airlines and planes.
Can you join me on Travel Info forum:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1771219#post1771219
Can you join me on Travel Info forum:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1771219#post1771219
My general experience with airline miles is that the selection usually gets worse over time, and seldom gets better. Don't spend too much time on it, or you'll wish you had booked some of the stuff that was originally available.
That said, I would be very reluctant to book first class at 4x the rate of coach (i.e. when you can get saver awards in coach but have to do higher awards in first). I'd much rather have FOUR trips in coach than one in first. Even 2x miles is sometimes tough to swallow.
That said, I would be very reluctant to book first class at 4x the rate of coach (i.e. when you can get saver awards in coach but have to do higher awards in first). I'd much rather have FOUR trips in coach than one in first. Even 2x miles is sometimes tough to swallow.
Thanks Michael. I appreciate the input. I've replied on the thread in Travel Info to keep the conversation in one place.
Il Ciocco is Wonderful But Out of the Way
We stayed at Il Ciocco about 3 years ago for 5 nights after flying into Rome. We picked up our car and drove - about 4-1/2 hours I think. It is isolated in the middle of what was a hunting preserve and was already a conference facility before becoming a Marriott. The owner comes and goes with a private helicopter - we could see the pad from our room as well as view the beautiful mountain valley the hotel sits in. Bike racers come to this area and other sports types. The little town of Barga close by is nice, Lucca a drive. We spent a day at a winery and one touring an old villa each a good drive south. Another in a vacation town north of Barga. Nothing too exciting. This is more seeing Italy as an Italian vs. a tourist. We loved it as a prelude to a trip to Florence [AC hotel] and then a cruise out of Rome. I wouldn't choose it unless you also have more touristy places to go before or after. That said, this was my favorite hotel stay of all time. Staff wonderful. Lots of Europe-based Americans were there using Marriott Points. Also an international medical conference with some U.S. attendees. Excellent breakfast, nice people to talk to from around Europe, don't miss the Turkish bath in the free spa area. BTW, make sure you take the farther exit from the last main road or you will drive through small mountain areas much longer than necessary.
We stayed at Il Ciocco about 3 years ago for 5 nights after flying into Rome. We picked up our car and drove - about 4-1/2 hours I think. It is isolated in the middle of what was a hunting preserve and was already a conference facility before becoming a Marriott. The owner comes and goes with a private helicopter - we could see the pad from our room as well as view the beautiful mountain valley the hotel sits in. Bike racers come to this area and other sports types. The little town of Barga close by is nice, Lucca a drive. We spent a day at a winery and one touring an old villa each a good drive south. Another in a vacation town north of Barga. Nothing too exciting. This is more seeing Italy as an Italian vs. a tourist. We loved it as a prelude to a trip to Florence [AC hotel] and then a cruise out of Rome. I wouldn't choose it unless you also have more touristy places to go before or after. That said, this was my favorite hotel stay of all time. Staff wonderful. Lots of Europe-based Americans were there using Marriott Points. Also an international medical conference with some U.S. attendees. Excellent breakfast, nice people to talk to from around Europe, don't miss the Turkish bath in the free spa area. BTW, make sure you take the farther exit from the last main road or you will drive through small mountain areas much longer than necessary.
This sounds perfect for us.
Here's the current plan. Please, anyone, share your thoughts.
We land at MXP in the morning. Will take the advice to visit Lake Como. Still looking at possibilities of where but we should be in Bellagio for lunch. (1-1/2 hr.).
From there a drive back to Milan to stay at Park Hyatt (booked with UR points transferred to Hyatt). We can take our time with breakfast and a some city walking before leaving Milan for Il Ciocco. (3-1/2 hr.) Plan to time it so we arrive before dark. 7 nights.
The small local towns are fine for us. If our daughter wants us to visit Florence with her it will be her choice. Florence will be a tough one. We visited in 2009 after Capri. Met our son Michael in Rome and took train to Florence. Stayed at Westin. Did a bike tour http://www.tuscany-biketours.com. Ate at our most favorite restaurant in the world. http://ristoranteilprofeta.vpsite.it/ENGLISH.html It was a trip of dreams. Anna may want to share all we have talked and laughed about over the years.
From Il Cioco we drive to B & B south of Sirmione. Day at B & B, day at Sirmione and drive to Vicenza. Stay night with Anna. Then 2 night stay at this charming spot north of Venice. http://www.masodivilla.it/it/ Isn't it luscious? We may save Venice for the next trip. Speculation it will be Mayish. Fly out of VCE after overnight in hotel in the morning.
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It just gets better and better.
Found another flight MAD-CLT-DTW last night. Changed our reservation. Less layover than the MAD-PHL-DTW. Last leg is in airbus instead of Embraer. Weather doesn't effect (or is that affect) 320 like the smaller planes. Got seats behind bulkhead again.
The only real sticker for the flights is the DTW-YYZ-BOS on the outbound. I like to multi-task. Any chance for a Tugger gathering at YYZ on 9/7? We have 2 hr 45 min layover in Toronto. What's the airport like? Can you arrange a meeting on the other side of security?
Found another flight MAD-CLT-DTW last night. Changed our reservation. Less layover than the MAD-PHL-DTW. Last leg is in airbus instead of Embraer. Weather doesn't effect (or is that affect) 320 like the smaller planes. Got seats behind bulkhead again.
The only real sticker for the flights is the DTW-YYZ-BOS on the outbound. I like to multi-task. Any chance for a Tugger gathering at YYZ on 9/7? We have 2 hr 45 min layover in Toronto. What's the airport like? Can you arrange a meeting on the other side of security?
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Hi Suzzanne...Here are some tips that might be useful regarding Bellagio.
Villa Serbelloni Grand Hotel - Bellagio - Como Lake (Italy)
http://www.villaserbelloni.com/
This is a very old but wonderfully kept hotel resort in Bellagio .. we didn't stay there but they let us wander all over the resort to see if we might want to stay there at some future trip. It wasn't busy in late May when we were there but I suggest you book a room right now if interested as I'm sure it will be sold out in Sept.
Other than the complex, what I liked most was that you didn't need a car to wander from the hotel to shops and eateries very nearby...really just out the gates.However, you can buy your Salvatore Ferragamo stuff at the hotel.
About the car trip...we hired a limo service for the day from Milan (500 euros) and I'm sure glad I did. The road is much like the Amalfi coast...very hilly and so narrow...drivers would never get to see the scenery. (see attached picture) In addition, Italians drivers are crazy.Just to get into the hotel you drive on a tiny one way road where there are people walking, shopping and dining - they get out of the way to let you pass. Fun. BTW you'll probably need an international drivers licence to rent a car there, if they ask for it (see AAA for one). I'd let Amex know too as they cover most of the insurance and will refund any insurance charges the car rental might force on you.
Bellagio is really like a suburb of Como, but it's a good driving hike around the lake to get there on narrow roads. There is a ferry boat service you can take to all the sights--and a gondola train to go to the top in Como. So even if you didn'tget in Serbelloni you could probably see it on one of the stops.
The top resort hotel is Villa D'Este in Lake Como. Wow. Expensive but memorable.We toured it too, and were most welcomed by the staff. Didn't want to leave. Even if you don't stay there, go see it.
http://www.villadeste.com/en/13/home.aspx
Another interesting place to see, and on the boat tour (or driving) is Como Villa Olmo ... they have entertainment there too.
http://www.grandimostrecomo.it/villa-olmo-en
Enjoy!
Brian
PS ... Will be in Williamsburg when you are at YYZ. Would have been nice.
Villa Serbelloni Grand Hotel - Bellagio - Como Lake (Italy)
http://www.villaserbelloni.com/
This is a very old but wonderfully kept hotel resort in Bellagio .. we didn't stay there but they let us wander all over the resort to see if we might want to stay there at some future trip. It wasn't busy in late May when we were there but I suggest you book a room right now if interested as I'm sure it will be sold out in Sept.
Other than the complex, what I liked most was that you didn't need a car to wander from the hotel to shops and eateries very nearby...really just out the gates.However, you can buy your Salvatore Ferragamo stuff at the hotel.
About the car trip...we hired a limo service for the day from Milan (500 euros) and I'm sure glad I did. The road is much like the Amalfi coast...very hilly and so narrow...drivers would never get to see the scenery. (see attached picture) In addition, Italians drivers are crazy.Just to get into the hotel you drive on a tiny one way road where there are people walking, shopping and dining - they get out of the way to let you pass. Fun. BTW you'll probably need an international drivers licence to rent a car there, if they ask for it (see AAA for one). I'd let Amex know too as they cover most of the insurance and will refund any insurance charges the car rental might force on you.
Bellagio is really like a suburb of Como, but it's a good driving hike around the lake to get there on narrow roads. There is a ferry boat service you can take to all the sights--and a gondola train to go to the top in Como. So even if you didn'tget in Serbelloni you could probably see it on one of the stops.
The top resort hotel is Villa D'Este in Lake Como. Wow. Expensive but memorable.We toured it too, and were most welcomed by the staff. Didn't want to leave. Even if you don't stay there, go see it.
http://www.villadeste.com/en/13/home.aspx
Another interesting place to see, and on the boat tour (or driving) is Como Villa Olmo ... they have entertainment there too.
http://www.grandimostrecomo.it/villa-olmo-en
Enjoy!
Brian
PS ... Will be in Williamsburg when you are at YYZ. Would have been nice.
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Thanks for the tips Brian. I'm already looking for flights for next Spring. After our lunches at Lake Como and Lake Garda we may want to stay longer on the next trip.
BTW, what do you think about United's Business class on 777? Some of the seats fly backwards. I would definitely try for forward facing seats. Reviews on Seat guru are not glowing.
BTW, what do you think about United's Business class on 777? Some of the seats fly backwards. I would definitely try for forward facing seats. Reviews on Seat guru are not glowing.
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Amex does not cover Italy.
For example: https://www295.americanexpress.com/premium/car-rental-insurance-coverage/home.do
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Como is wonderful but from Milan the drive to Bellagio can be 1.5-2 hours each way. There are two main routes to Bellagio from west and east, so you might want to go on both to see more. But, plan on lots of driving.
I stayed at this hotel and their restaurant was excellent (recent reviews are mixed, but then again online reviews are rarely universal with an opinion). It's just outside the center town of Bellagio and has fantastic views. We ate at other restaurants in Bellagio and thought at the time (about five years ago) the hotel restaurant really was the best. They specialize in fish from the lake, so it's all local.
http://www.bellagiosilvio.com/ristorante-silvio.html
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That's odd. Maybe it's different in Canada Amex? A month or so before leaving Canada for Rome, I called Amex Canada about Italy and they said I don't need insurance but if they insisted on payment Amex would credit my account for the charges. I asked for a letter outlining that so I could show them if I rented, and they sent it to me...but I've misplaced it as I didn't rent a car. It may turn up if I did into all my stuff from the trip.
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In spite of being a Silver UA member (thanks to Marriott) I haven't ever been on any UA flight but bank almost all my FF points there from Marriott as they are a partner with Air Canada...and AC miles seats are easier for UA to get them than I can with Aeroplan.
My last flights were British Airways (777 and 747 except for LHR to Europe) and their BizClass seats sound similar to UA's...one person flying backwards and the other forward.
I prefer forward but my spouse said it didn't bother her going backwards. Who knows...it might be safer in a crash to fly backwards. It was nice to be able to talk face to face rather than the Air Canada biz seats. Main problem was at night...it the person against the window on the next seat unit had to go to the washroom he/she had to step over my legs. Same thing happens with the 'double beds' in the middle...those people have to step over someone to get out.
Brian
Ok. I looked to see if we could get milesaver the day before our departure so we could spend a day on Lake Como. Nope. Distance to Bellagio seems a bit too much for a day trip and then a drive to Barga. Will have to save a longer trip to Lake Como for our next visit to Italy. However, it looks like we can squeeze in a visit to Como for a few hours.
If we go to Milan from airport we can check-in and do our Milan walking and enjoy hotel on day 1. Next morning Como is about 45 mins. from Milan. Get there by 11 a.m. for lunch. Then take the funicular and call it a day.
Went to mapquest for time from Como to Barga. Get on the road to Il Ciocco by 3. Mapquest says almost 4 hrs. to Barga. Sunset is 7:40. Want to drive up the hill to hotel before dark.
I almost thought about scrapping Lake Como altogether. If weather isn't conducive to this kind of schedule we will just put it off until Spring trip. It looks like a place to spend 5 days. Rick Steves has good youtube video for Bellagio and Varenna.
When we stayed at Il Ciocco we were told the best airport to arrive in that part of Italy is Pisa. If you don't have to stay in Milan you can look into Pisa, though Milan has great airfares. We are currently planning a trip in spring 2016 to Northern Italy after a cruise. We won't rent a car this time so my husband can enjoy the view more as a train passenger, especially when we go through the Alps to Switzerland. It is about 35 minutes from Milan to Como by train and not necessary to drive there. Then you can ferry around the lake to places like Bellagio. I was last there 40 years ago by car staying in Bellagio and the drive to Como wasn't worth it for a day trip. You can also take the train to Lugano, SW in the mountains for a day trip (40 mins.) from Milan. So many possibilities it makes planning more difficult.
DD has said it's ok to begin our search for another trip in May. She knows I like to plan early to get rooms and seats with points/miles. I have a hold on AA for Business using 50K miles DTW-VCE. Itinerary is good. AA Business on 77W has 4 seats across is better than UA's with 8 seats across. Plan to spend more time in VCE in the Spring since we won't be seeing much of it in Sept. Have looked at hotel suggestions. We don't have many spg points. Karen Brown also has some cute places in her book.
In the meantime, just to make sure we have something, I have reserved 5 nights at Boscolo Venezia with MR. It's a Cat. 9 so I would have to upgrade my Cat. 6 certificate. Any comments? Is it worth the points? Reviews on trip advisor look good.
Then we think we'd like to return for a longer stay in Lake Como. How many days should we consider?
Can't look at flights out of Milan yet because it's over 331 days away.
Someone mentioned this earlier in the thread. Maybe it was you. I did search for seats to Pisa and didn't find them with milesaver. By the time I got better at the search I was looking for airports out of the States with the best connections. Then trying to get from DTW to the main departure. Probably forgot about Pisa along the way. Anyway, we are now booked and locked into arriving in MXP. I can make changes as long as departure and arrival airports remain the same.
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You might want to see if it is a 'too modern' hotel. The reason is that I stayed in the Milan Boscolo mid May and found it much too modern for my tastes...uncomfortable chairs, little bathroom privacy, poor views, small rooms, noisy halls. I think it was a cat 6 when I booked my week there and the location in Milan was perfect. The Venice one might be entirely different, but check it out...Tripadvisor reviews might help.
Como is very nice but if you like active holidays it might be a little 'sleepy' for you for a lengthy visit. The lake was very nice, but not really extra special compared to what we have in many places of North Anerica.
Brian
Thanks Brian for rescuing me from "page 2".
The Boscolo looks like comfortable mix of updating and olde world: http://www.marriott.com/hotels/trav...bta&scid=b661a3c4-9c47-48c8-9e13-75b66089dd79
I even like that it's out of the way. Seems like good location from airport.
The activity I like on holiday are walking, eating (I'm a foodie), and watching. The boat rides around the lake look lovely. Sitting in the cafes looks lovely.
You're right about the lake option right close to home. Remember, I come from "Pure Michigan". Giving up an opportunity to visit Bay Harbor to go to Italy. http://www.marriott.com/hotels/trav...harbor-renaissance-lake-michigan-golf-resort/ Now Lake Michigan is a lake!
The trip to Italy is all about staying connected to our daughter.
How many nights would you suggest for Lake Como? Milan?
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What?!?! Nothing in NA matches the history of the Lake Como region.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Como
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Ken,
The Chippewa would probably not agree with you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torch_Lake_(Antrim_County,_Michigan)
Then there's others who would also disagree:
http://www.budgettravel.com/blog/what-are-the-worlds-most-beautiful-lakes,11407/
It's so hard to pick favorites.
The Chippewa would probably not agree with you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torch_Lake_(Antrim_County,_Michigan)
Then there's others who would also disagree:
http://www.budgettravel.com/blog/what-are-the-worlds-most-beautiful-lakes,11407/
It's so hard to pick favorites.
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Amusing, especially since I didn't say Lake Como itself is the most beautiful, there are many places I need to visit, and I'm easily pleased. The combination of Italian history, buildings, and the lake resulted in an absolutely wonderful trip which I am uncertain could be replicated in North America. But, whatever.
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I am looking forward to the charm that was shown in the Rick Steves video.
Thinking about this thread today I was mentally comparing the different charms of Torch Lake and Lake Como. It's not that one is better, it's diverse.
The blue of Torch Lake is jaw dropping gorgeous! We stayed in a small town with one main street, general store, Italian restaurant, bakery, art and Up North hometown charm. Stayed in a B & B so we could walk everyday to the water in a "gone to the lake" trance.
I gather the fjord-like geography and hillside villages of Lake Como will give it's own lake trance.
Thinking about this thread today I was mentally comparing the different charms of Torch Lake and Lake Como. It's not that one is better, it's diverse.
The blue of Torch Lake is jaw dropping gorgeous! We stayed in a small town with one main street, general store, Italian restaurant, bakery, art and Up North hometown charm. Stayed in a B & B so we could walk everyday to the water in a "gone to the lake" trance.
I gather the fjord-like geography and hillside villages of Lake Como will give it's own lake trance.
Agree with above. Venice is lovely but the flights are very expensive and the airport is not in Venice proper. If you do fly into Venice, I can recommend a very nice B and B that is close to the sight s and very reasonable.