Just wondering...why the $700 limit for last minute rentals?

well thats not exactly an average =)

TUGBrian said:

well thats not exactly an average =)

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"an" average, or "average"?

Still, we're talking about Last Minute. If you own a high end resort with very large maintenance fees and want to rent it last minute, this may not be the venue for you until you exhaust other means. Hopefully your plan to rent is well before Last Minute and you get cost + out of it.

We all have costs, we all make compromises when the chips are down. If you don't want to offer your 2000 mf unit for 700, I understand that, but it does not mean that the LMR here is defective.

I am glad Brian does not want this to become Rental Site Central. I'm very much in agreement to shove off the other listings to Marketplace. I feel that the last minute boards are more of a courtesy than a MUST HAVE in the forums.

and please do continue to report abusers of it. I am 0 tolerance for bait and switch.

geekette said:

Still, we're talking about Last Minute. If you own a high end resort with very large maintenance fees and want to rent it last minute, this may not be the venue for you until you exhaust other means. Hopefully your plan to rent is well before Last Minute and you get cost + out of it.

We all have costs, we all make compromises when the chips are down. If you don't want to offer your 2000 mf unit for 700, I understand that, but it does not mean that the LMR here is defective.

I am glad Brian does not want this to become Rental Site Central. I'm very much in agreement to shove off the other listings to Marketplace. I feel that the last minute boards are more of a courtesy than a MUST HAVE in the forums.

and please do continue to report abusers of it. I am 0 tolerance for bait and switch.

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I agree with every point.

The appeal of LMR to the buyer is that it's a potential rental that might happen because of the price + what the week is. I would be adding this to my pre-set plans that I have had for a long time. The $700 is about the highest I would do for impulsive renting.

The appeal of LMR to the seller should be it's money that might not be recaptured if not for that additional exposure in the forums. Regular renting should happen in the Marketplace, not in the forums.

I would look less in LMR if the allowed price is much higher than $700. $725 is OK, but what difference does the $25 make to high-end MFs, while making it more complicated?

I would not want to see more commercial renting than what is already there. Again, if there were more commercial renting in LMR, I would probably stop looking.

For me if upping the limit a hundred dollars meant that certain inventory would appear in the LMR forum 3 or 4 weeks in advance as opposed to 0-10 days in advance I would welcome seeing the additional inventory. I agree $700 is a lot to pay for something that you have almost no lead time to plan.

I also don't think everything would be listed at the highest level. There is a market level even for LMR and a lot of people who list here realize that. With more lead time the value would be higher but 4-7 days before check in it often becomes "make an offer".

tschwa2 said:

I also don't think everything would be listed at the highest level. There is a market level even for LMR and a lot of people who list here realize that. With more lead time the value would be higher but 4-7 days before check in it often becomes "make an offer".

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Precisely.

What I find kind of unfair about the last minute forum is that it severely favors lock out units because there is a "loophole" which allows those units to potentially be posted for double the $700 minimum by listing each lock out piece for $700. I've seen people do this often with Massanutten and Williamsburg properties (actually the Kings Creek Estates locks out 3 ways so you someone could technically even post there for $2,100 I suppose). I think it's unfair to (for example) a South Carolina Marriott owner whose unit has a higher overall maintenance fee and is higher demand but doesn't lock out so all they can do is ask for $700 for their whole 2BR. I'm not sure there is a way to fully resolve this though. I guess no system is perfect.

bonk2boy said:

What I find kind of unfair about the last minute forum is that it severely favors lock out units because there is a "loophole" which allows those units to potentially be posted for double the $700 minimum by listing each lock out piece for $700. I've seen people do this often with Massanutten and Williamsburg properties (actually the Kings Creek Estates locks out 3 ways so you someone could technically even post there for $2,100 I suppose). I think it's unfair to (for example) a South Carolina Marriott owner whose unit has a higher overall maintenance fee and is higher demand but doesn't lock out so all they can do is ask for $700 for their whole 2BR. I'm not sure there is a way to fully resolve this though. I guess no system is perfect.

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All are equally able to own whatever they want to own so in that way, all is fair for all.

geekette said:

All are equally able to own whatever they want to own so in that way, all is fair for all.

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Streeeeeeeeeeetch. The LMR forum is a listing forum, not an ownership forum.

All are equally able to own whatever they want to own so in that way, all is fair for all.

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Beefnot is right. It's one thing when you make a decision to buy and forego the trading / owning privileges that having a lock out offer. But this is listing site that is supposed to offer the same last minute financial recoupment opportunity for all (at least in theory). Lock off units are not even available in all locations. I gave South Carolina as the example because none of the nice beach front properties there lock off (even non-Marriott). I'm not saying that there is a good solution here, or that I wouldn't take advantage with my own 4BR lock out unit if I ever had to rent it last minute myself. I was just commenting that the loophole does exist...

bonk2boy said:

Beefnot is right. It's one thing when you make a decision to buy and forego the trading / owning privileges that having a lock out offer. But this is listing site that is supposed to offer the same last minute financial recoupment opportunity for all (at least in theory). Lock off units are not even available in all locations. I gave South Carolina as the example because none of the nice beach front properties there lock off (even non-Marriott). I'm not saying that there is a good solution here, or that I wouldn't take advantage with my own 4BR lock out unit if I ever had to rent it last minute myself. I was just commenting that the loophole does exist...

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I have to come back to the fact that this is not "a listing site". Last Minute Rentals are a courtesy extended to us IN THE FORUMS by Brian and I think there is no anticipation, concern or even thought to financial recoupment. if you want A Listing Site, they are all over the place, including the Marketplace here.

I don't think " a loophole exists " but if one wanted to try to make profit renting Loophole Eligible Timeshares, they sure can. For everyone else, use Marketplace, eBay, Craig's List, Red Week, VRBO... where there are no limits.

geekette said:

I have to come back to the fact that this is not "a listing site". Last Minute Rentals are a courtesy extended to us IN THE FORUMS by Brian and I think there is no anticipation, concern or even thought to financial recoupment. if you want A Listing Site, they are all over the place, including the Marketplace here.

I don't think " a loophole exists " but if one wanted to try to make profit renting Loophole Eligible Timeshares, they sure can. For everyone else, use Marketplace, eBay, Craig's List, Red Week, VRBO... where there are no limits.

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I assume bonk2boy misspoke. LMR is not a listing "site", it is a listing "forum". And I presume you misspoke as well when you said "there is no anticipation, concern or even thought to financial recoupment."

TUGBrian said:

the LMR section is designed as such to provide a last ditch effort to get something for your timeshare interval that is about to expire soon.

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In other words, "recoupment". Not necessarily full recoupment, but recoupment nonetheless.

Beefnot said:

I assume bonk2boy misspoke. LMR is not a listing "site", it is a listing "forum". And I presume you misspoke as well when you said "there is no anticipation, concern or even thought to financial recoupment."



In other words, "recoupment". Not necessarily full recoupment, but recoupment nonetheless.

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Yes, semantics and misspokenness, thank you.

I tend to consider Recoup to mean Get Back, like made whole. I won't bother looking up its dictionary definition as that's what I meant, so I got that wrong.

I am certain that Brian is not going to go around trying to find out who made 100% of costs, who made 5%, etc., my premise is that he's not offering/guaranteeing/implying that anyone can make their costs and he in fact is not concerned what anyone's costs actually are (I believe there is Brian quote in this thread that bears this out), this is simply last ditch effort to get Something.

geekette said:

Yes, semantics and misspokenness, thank you.

I tend to consider Recoup to mean Get Back, like made whole. I won't bother looking up its dictionary definition as that's what I meant, so I got that wrong.

I am certain that Brian is not going to go around trying to find out who made 100% of costs, who made 5%, etc., my premise is that he's not offering/guaranteeing/implying that anyone can make their costs and he in fact is not concerned what anyone's costs actually are (I believe there is Brian quote in this thread that bears this out), this is simply last ditch effort to get Something.

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It is not technically wrong, but practically speaking recoupment can be partial or full. However in the context of what bonk2boy wrote, I didn't read his point being that owners should have the opportunity to be made whole, but that the $700 limit creates inequity in ability to recoup a greater portion of their underlying cost simply based on unit size.

Nine pages on this thread and multiple previous posts on a non-issue. I really don't get it. If you want to rent out your unit, utilize the tug marketplace, redweek, ebay, craigslist etc. All have the option to post at any time. All have a larger audience for potential renters. Every thread/forum/listing site can't be all things to all people. Trying to make everything conform to what YOU want is not realistic, especially if you aren't the one doing the programming. Perhaps it's time to focus all this energy on something more productive.

I appreciate the LMR as a spot for non-renters to get something out of a week they can't use and can't cancel. That's a pretty small audience. If the $700 limit is too small, then use the tug marketplace, redweek, ebay, craigslist etc to recoup those costs. If none of those work, then your alternative is likely to recoup zero of your costs.

Personally, it seems to me that lots of you would prefer Brian eliminate the LMR completely to focus all attention on the tug marketplace. Creating duplicate sites on both tug2 and tugbbs is a waste of time. The person spending that time might just decide to consolidate. That would be a shame.

Sue

But it is not a spot for non renters. If it were it would have a 1, 5, or even 10 unit maximum per year.

It has become a spot for those that either can cancel reservations without any (or very little penalty) and/ or for those with units that have MF of less than $700.

I looked back at the last month of LMR.
There are 2 entities that have listed 15 weeks apiece in the last 30 days. I'm fairly sure neither owns any of the weeks that they put up. They are brokers for others.
There are 3 other posters that have listed 5-7 weeks each. Looking at what they have they are either brokers or are listing points reservations that can potentially be cancelled without penalties. Everyone else who posted has listed between 1 and 3 units in the last 30 days.

So about 25% of the posts come from 4 posters.

I have to come back to the fact that this is not "a listing site". Last Minute Rentals are a courtesy extended to us IN THE FORUMS by Brian and I think there is no anticipation, concern or even thought to financial recoupment. if you want A Listing Site, they are all over the place, including the Marketplace here.

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Beefnot hit it on the head - A listing site for rentals by definition is any place where you are able to advertise a week you are trying to rent. So for all intent and purpose, the LMF is a special restricted "listing" forum designed to help owners "get back" (recoupment being the synonym) a portion of their cost when plans fall through at the last minute. My point was that this concept doesn't always offer the same opportunity for everyone - that was all.

BTW - I was certainly not complaining for myself. I own a 4BR 4th of July week at The Colonies in Williamsburg. My maintenance fee on that is $744 and the LMF would allow me to lock out this unit into two 2BR units and post each side for an ask price of $700 ($1400 total). That would be a profit of 88% if I successfully rented both parts...

tschwa2 said:

But it is not a spot for non renters. If it were it would have a 1, 5, or even 10 unit maximum per year.

It has become a spot for those that either can cancel reservations without any (or very little penalty) and/ or for those with units that have MF of less than $700.

I looked back at the last month of LMR.
There are 2 entities that have listed 15 weeks apiece in the last 30 days. I'm fairly sure neither owns any of the weeks that they put up. They are brokers for others.
There are 3 other posters that have listed 5-7 weeks each. Looking at what they have they are either brokers or are listing points reservations that can potentially be cancelled without penalties. Everyone else who posted has listed between 1 and 3 units in the last 30 days.

So about 25% of the posts come from 4 posters.

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I agree. The LMR forum doesn't seem to be getting used for it's intended purpose. As you said, If it were only being used by those with a week that will otherwise be lost there would be far fewer ads. I would expect to see the same number of LMRs as Distressed weeks in the Sightings/Distressed forum. That is clearly not the case.

I looked back at the last month of LMR.
There are 2 entities that have listed 15 weeks apiece in the last 30 days. I'm fairly sure neither owns any of the weeks that they put up. They are brokers for others.
There are 3 other posters that have listed 5-7 weeks each. Looking at what they have they are either brokers or are listing points reservations that can potentially be cancelled without penalties. Everyone else who posted has listed between 1 and 3 units in the last 30 days.

So about 25% of the posts come from 4 posters.

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Yes - a lot of Wyndham postings... Probably bulk points ownerships that also offer profit on average if reserved creatively enough at the $100 rate. This goes back to my whole point. I'm not looking to rent my Colonies unit, I like trading in II and wanted to own a big unit for family trips. But in a perfect system I wouldn't be able to post my unit for 88% profit above annual fees while other owners of top resorts in high demand locations are barely covering half their fees.

So do owners with high value units never want to take advantage of a cheap last minute trip to a resort whose maint fees are 700 or less?

So do owners with high value units never want to take advantage of a cheap last minute trip to a resort whose maint fees are 700 or less?

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I'm sure some might. There are other variables besides the maintenance fees that play into the desirability of a rental. The maintenance fees aren't even relevant to that at all because some of the nicer resorts have high purchase prices and low annual fees. I don't think anyone is really saying that the LMF isn't a helpful resource, it's just that by default it clearly offers a better opportunity to certain owners than others. That's all.

Look - I also don't think it's fair that II allows an owner of a 3BR offseason week that's going to sit in inventory to place a pending request for a high demand 3BR week while the owner of a peak high demand 1BR holiday ski or beach week at a deluxe resort can only put in a request for a 1BR even if the trade isn't during for the "platinum plus" season that they own. RCI does a better job of controlling this with the TPU system (but on the other hand gives studio owners way too much credit in terms of desirability relative to bigger units).

Bottom line - There's no way to design a perfect system when it comes to timeshares. However - the current rules of the LMF generally discourage owners of non-lock out units at nice places during prime season to post unless it is literally days before check in.

I vote for higher price points. It's time.

A vote for raising the limits and my suggestion on what might work.

I'd like to suggest that it is time to change the pricing limits for last minute postings. If you want to serve members better, you need more and better offerings in the Last Minute area.

I have never seen any traffic or sales from ads I have placed in the marketplace. I no longer even try listing there. Craigslist is still the king, even with all of its really vexing traits.

Based on my outcomes, which may be "just me", I feel, at least on TUG, Last Minute is where folks will congregate and find the best deals.

Proposed new price points:

Hotel/Studio $700
1BR $800
2BR $900
3BR $1000

Or

Sleeps 2 $700
Sleeps 4 $800
Sleeps 6 $900
Sleeps 8 or more $1000

When was the last time (if ever) the $700 limit was raised? Someone posted 2001. So, with inflation of maintenance fees for 13 years, say at 4%, that is a 70% increase. So, isn't it time to allow some sort of a COLA on this board, as well?

Practically speaking, I won't ever offer my best units (2BR summer coastal weeks), even last minute, for $700. Most of them are well-priced at $1100-$1400 weekly rates. If I could get $900 or $1000, I might be willing to take less on short notice.

mblosser said:

A vote for raising the limits and my suggestion on what might work.

I'd like to suggest that it is time to change the pricing limits for last minute postings. If you want to serve members better, you need more and better offerings in the Last Minute area.

I have never seen any traffic or sales from ads I have placed in the marketplace. I no longer even try listing there. Craigslist is still the king, even with all of its really vexing traits.

Based on my outcomes, which may be "just me", I feel, at least on TUG, Last Minute is where folks will congregate and find the best deals.

Proposed new price points:

Hotel/Studio $700
1BR $800
2BR $900
3BR $1000

Or

Sleeps 2 $700
Sleeps 4 $800
Sleeps 6 $900
Sleeps 8 or more $1000

When was the last time (if ever) the $700 limit was raised? Someone posted 2001. So, with inflation of maintenance fees for 13 years, say at 4%, that is a 70% increase. So, isn't it time to allow some sort of a COLA on this board, as well?

Practically speaking, I won't ever offer my best units (2BR summer coastal weeks), even last minute, for $700. Most of them are well-priced at $1100-$1400 weekly rates. If I could get $900 or $1000, I might be willing to take less on short notice.

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It has been stated here by Brian and other Mods that the original purpose of this forum is to give an outlet to people who would otherwise be stuck with their week.

You have just given ammunition to those who claim the forum will be over run with rental company ads if the limits are raised.

Your ads sometimes state that if you don't hurry the ressie will be canceled. You are not the target poster for this forum.

All that being said I see no problem with people trying to make a buck off rentals in this forum and elsewhere and I think it's time for the limit to be raised a little but from the sound of those in power, you probably won't be getting a sympathetic ear.

I, for one check the forum daily but not the classifieds. I'm not sure why I don't check the classifieds more often but I don't. I think it may be the ease of breezing through the forum when the subject lines are filled out according to the posting rules. It seems the classifieds are a little harder to navigate.

csxjohn said:

...I, for one check the forum daily but not the classifieds. I'm not sure why I don't check the classifieds more often but I don't. I think it may be the ease of breezing through the forum when the subject lines are filled out according to the posting rules. It seems the classifieds are a little harder to navigate.

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Same here. Marketplace - you have to know the resort names and look and look.

But there are fewer offerings on the LMR thread than in the classified ads. The Classified Ads cover 12+ months of possible rentals. The LMR thread is limited to 45 days. Hence. else offerings.

There has been 1 or 2 posters in the past 3 years, who seem to post 20+ ads at a time. Then, that poster had 15-45 intervals available inside each thread. And then that poster would BUMP those great offerings. Mind you they had all low prices (way under the $700 limit at resort I mostly never heard of) ... but the swarming of their posts and the offerings at $35-60 per night, just made the $100 per night resort stays appear to be overpriced.

I was happy when those posts seem to go away. It was a royal PIA to paw my way thru them - esp when I was doing the NEW POSTS review.

Another thought...

I wanted to provide a real world example of why the current limits hurt everyone involved - both people who want to recoup something within 45 days of check-in, and people who would be interested in utilizing it...

I recently had a posting for a great unit (3BR Presidential Deluxe at Wyndham Panama City Beach) for the end of August. I was reluctant to post it in LMR at the max of $700 because I knew it was worth much more. It was also a split reservation, meaning I had to come out of pocket for $200 worth of guest confirmations. In the end, I felt like it was better to have a TUGGER get a great deal than to cancel the ressie. I had 3 people within 2 hours ping me for it and had to sort through which had the first real offer/commitment to rent.

The reality is, I could have canceled the reservation and made much more with the points in another reservation, but didn't. But I'm faced with the same situation again and am likely to pull the plug this time, and it is very likely someone would really enjoy the reservation even at a more reasonable rate of $1000 for the week. But because of the limit, they won't have the chance.

For me, the determining factor for Last Minute Rentals is LAST MINUTE. The rentals have a short "shelf life" here. If you price them too high, no one is going to be interested. But establishing an artificially low limit that hasn't changed in 12 years reduces the selection of what will be posted. If I'm trying to find a rental at the last minute - maybe my schedule suddenly changed and now I can take a week when I hadn't planned to - I don't want my selection to be artificially limited to low-end properties.