Weeks Trading/TDI Questions

JIMinNC · Jun 23, 2016

So far in the two years we've been Marriott owners, all of our bookings have been with points. For 2017, we decided to try a traditional Weeks exchange using our 2BR Silver Barony Beach Club. So back in late March, we reserved the highest-value Silver week we could - week 12. We got a Friday check-in date (missed out on Saturday because of the current issues with the online inventory not appearing at 9am) and we own Gardenview. I'm under the impression that check-in day or view doesn't come into play in II exchange power. Is that correct?

Second question...we immediately started an ongoing search looking for fall 2017 at Grande Ocean only. We elected to limit our search for now to GO since we're staying at Barony next April using points and we want to try GO in the fall, having never stayed there. We're trying to up-trade from Silver Barony into Gold season at GO, and gave about a six or seven week date range from approximately week 36-42. Obviously, we won't have any chance at getting a match until this fall when Gold GO owners start reserving and depositing mid-September - late October weeks. The TDI of the week 12 we deposited was 100 and the weeks at GO we're searching for range from 100-110. Based on these numbers and things I was told on TUG prior to starting the search, I conclude that this will be pretty close to an even trade, so we can reasonably expect to get a match at GO sometime this fall without expanding our search to other HHI resorts. Do the experienced HHI traders agree with that assessment? Based on your experiences, do those matches come fairly early once the booking calendar opens, or can we expect to wait a bit after calendar opening?

Finally...with our status as a Barony owner and Points owner, will we get any preference at GO when room assignment time comes? Or will we be treated like any other II trader?

Saintsfanfl · Jun 23, 2016

You assumption on view and check-in day is correct.

I put little weight in TDI but in your case it can be a fairly accurate guide since it is HHI to HHI. That said it is still very possible for someone to take a really low TDI Marriott week at HHI and exchange into Gold season.

In my opinion you will not have any trouble fetching week 36-42 with your OGS. It is likely to happen at 13-12 months since you have a 7 week range. If your primary preference is the earlier weeks then it should work perfectly.

As a Marriott weeks owner you will get some level of preference on unit placement. You will not be treated the same as a non-Marriott II exchanger. That is doesn't mean you will get what you want but you won't be at the bottom of the list.

taterhed · Jun 23, 2016

Filling out the room pref (if you get one) seems to help. But calling the people at room control about 2-3 weeks out and expressing some 'joie de vivre' about your upcoming stay and confirming receipt of your preferences can't hurt...and seemed to help in my case. (not at MGO)

cheers.

bazzap · Jun 23, 2016

taterhed said:
Filling out the room pref (if you get one) seems to help. But calling the people at room control about 2-3 weeks out and expressing some 'joie de vivre' about your upcoming stay and confirming receipt of your preferences can't hurt...and seemed to help in my case. (not at MGO)

cheers.

Yes, it always amazes me when so many owners express no enthusiasm or appreciation when seeking help with their preferences.
It may or may not get you what you want, but for sure it does no harm.

JIMinNC · Jun 23, 2016

Saintsfanfl said:
You assumption on view and check-in day is correct.

I put little weight in TDI but in your case it can be a fairly accurate guide since it is HHI to HHI. That said it is still very possible for someone to take a really low TDI Marriott week at HHI and exchange into Gold season.

In my opinion you will not have any trouble fetching week 36-42 with your OGS. It is likely to happen at 13-12 months since you have a 7 week range. If your primary preference is the earlier weeks then it should work perfectly.

As a Marriott weeks owner you will get some level of preference on unit placement. You will not be treated the same as a non-Marriott II exchanger. That is doesn't mean you will get what you want but you won't be at the bottom of the list.

Thanks for the confirmation that what I thought was the case probably is.

Why do you put little weight on TDI? I thought that was the best measure of relative trade power?

Fairwinds · Jun 24, 2016

JIMinNC said:
Thanks for the confirmation that what I thought was the case probably is.

Why do you put little weight on TDI? I thought that was the best measure of relative trade power?

I will crawl out on that limb and hope I'm right. The way I understand TDI is that is a good measure if as mentioned above you are trading within the region of your trader. The problem with trading in other areas is that TDI is area specific and not a world wide standard. For illustration, imagine a resort in an unpopular area that has the same demand all year long. It's TDI would be high all year because demand is consistent but it might be easy to trade into. TDI will generally let you know what time of year you will have the best chance of confirmation.

Saintsfanfl · Jun 24, 2016

Fairwinds said:
I will crawl out on that limb and hope I'm right. The way I understand TDI is that is a good measure if as mentioned above you are trading within the region of your trader. The problem with trading in other areas is that TDI is area specific and not a world wide standard. For illustration, imagine a resort in an unpopular area that has the same demand all year long. It's TDI would be high all year because demand is consistent but it might be easy to trade into. TDI will generally let you know what time of year you will have the best chance of confirmation.

I agree with this except for one minor exception. Your example of the unpopular area with the same demand all year long would result in all weeks having a TDI of 100 rather than being high all year. As a matter of fact if the resort was in a popular area and demand was the same for all weeks then it would also result in a TDI of 100 for every week. And therein lies one of the biggest problems with using TDI for trading power. Both areas would have a 100 TDI for every week but one area clearly has higher demand.

JIMinNC said:
Thanks for the confirmation that what I thought was the case probably is.

Why do you put little weight on TDI? I thought that was the best measure of relative trade power?

It can be a measure of relative trading power if used correctly but there are caveats. TDI is designed to determine demand or "trading power" among various weeks within that same region. It cannot be used to compare two different regions because the very definition of "relative" for the purposes of TDI is confined to one region. One week relative to another within the same region. In theory the best week in a given region could be worse than the worst week in another region. This is only going to be true in theory but the principal applies and shows why TDI is not reliable the way some people view it.

The hole in even using it for the correct purpose is that there is not a chart for every relevant area. It probably works comparing one week to another for popular places like Orlando or HHI, but it doesn't always work for obscure places. For example there is no chart just for St Augustine Florida. There are "event" weeks there that are not reflected on the TDI chart.

Another big hole in using it for the correct purposes is the chart starts at 50 and only goes to 150. There are literally weeks at 10 or less with offsetting weeks at 200 or higher. HHI is a great example where this occurs but you can't see it because the chart starts too high and ends too low.

New Orleans is a good example of a place that has good demand all year. This results in the chart not having a single week lower than 70 and only two weeks at 150 or higher.

Think of TDI as zero balanced. If one week is higher than 100 then another week is lower by the same amount. Most people think TDI is just demand but in reality it is a glimpse of the slow or busy seasons within a given geographic area.

In addition, II sometimes makes mistakes on the TDI charts.

I do use TDI but only as a start for determining the better floating weeks for a given resort. I then try and determine if it is accurate if possible. Sometimes this can be shown in instant trading but most of the time the needed power is too wide to determine the better week. Another method is the cruise exchange value but even that will give the same discount for weeks that are fairly close. It is very possible that these close weeks are programmed with the exact same trading power but you will find instances where TDI is proven wrong or two weeks with the same "150+" TDI have different cruise discount values.

JIMinNC · Jun 24, 2016

Saintsfanfl and Fairwinds,

Thanks for the detailed explanations. I had always assumed that TDI measured demand across regions, not just within a region. I guess the reason I thought that was the DC Points conversion to II weeks is tiered by TDI range - a 2BR for any TDI 50-85 week is 2250 points, while a 140-150 2BR week is 4500. Since there was no distinction in points requirements for geography/location, I always assumed a 150 TDI week in Hilton Head was equal to a 150 TDI week in Hawaii. But after reading your explanations and then thinking about it, it makes sense that it's measuring relative demand, not absolute. Branson, Hilton Head, and Hawaii all have 150 TDI weeks, but it makes sense that you can't assume demand in Branson during those 150 TDI weeks is equal to the other two.

Thanks again.

Fairwinds · Jun 25, 2016

Saintsfanfl said:
I agree with this except for one minor exception. Your example of the unpopular area with the same demand all year long would result in all weeks having a TDI of 100 rather than being high all year. As a matter of fact if the resort was in a popular area and demand was the same for all weeks then it would also result in a TDI of 100 for every week. And therein lies one of the biggest problems with using TDI for trading power. Both areas would have a 100 TDI for every week but one area clearly has higher demand.

Yes. I don't know what I was thinking.

Big Matt · Jun 25, 2016

II has an internal tiering system that puts resorts in specific quality buckets. Then they assign trading power in a points based system that gives points for tier, TDI, number of bedrooms, a kitchen or not, and when you deposit. Your week gets in line relative to other resorts. If all else is equal the one deposited first wins, but that's rarely the case because of all of the variables.

OP did exactly the right thing by finding the highest TDI and depositing it early.

Always remember to call II. They may do a trade with you just to get their commission. They can more your week up the ranking.

GregT · Jun 25, 2016

JIMinNC said:
So far in the two years we've been Marriott owners, all of our bookings have been with points. For 2017, we decided to try a traditional Weeks exchange using our 2BR Silver Barony Beach Club. So back in late March, we reserved the highest-value Silver week we could - week 12. We got a Friday check-in date (missed out on Saturday because of the current issues with the online inventory not appearing at 9am) and we own Gardenview. I'm under the impression that check-in day or view doesn't come into play in II exchange power. Is that correct?

Second question...we immediately started an ongoing search looking for fall 2017 at Grande Ocean only. We elected to limit our search for now to GO since we're staying at Barony next April using points and we want to try GO in the fall, having never stayed there. We're trying to up-trade from Silver Barony into Gold season at GO, and gave about a six or seven week date range from approximately week 36-42. Obviously, we won't have any chance at getting a match until this fall when Gold GO owners start reserving and depositing mid-September - late October weeks. The TDI of the week 12 we deposited was 100 and the weeks at GO we're searching for range from 100-110. Based on these numbers and things I was told on TUG prior to starting the search, I conclude that this will be pretty close to an even trade, so we can reasonably expect to get a match at GO sometime this fall without expanding our search to other HHI resorts. Do the experienced HHI traders agree with that assessment? Based on your experiences, do those matches come fairly early once the booking calendar opens, or can we expect to wait a bit after calendar opening?

Finally...with our status as a Barony owner and Points owner, will we get any preference at GO when room assignment time comes? Or will we be treated like any other II trader?

Jim,

Others have given excellent responses, and I agree with them. I would also add that II has it's own rating system, and disregards Marriott's classifications of Silver/Gold/Platinum. II uses Red/Yellow/Green.

For your property, your Silver Barony Beach Club is Red, as follows:

Barony Beach Club
SurfWatch
Grand Ocean
Red 5-48, 51-52
Green 1-4, 49-50

We have speculated elsewhere that II may consider some Red weeks more pink-ish, but irrespective, I think this will trade much better than you anticipate. Getting the highest TDI week and depositing it early can only help your trade power.

Please confirm you did deposit it -- I assume it to be the case based upon your description of starting an on-going search, but some people have done this as Request First versus Deposit First -- and Deposit First will maximize the trade power of your week.

Separately, you may have great success using your Barony Beach Club as an (enrolled) dedicated trader versus for its points value.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Best,

Greg

GregT · Jun 25, 2016

All,

Here is a link to the post where all the Marriott weeks are listed and how II rates the colors of the different weeks.

The whole thread is a good one.

Best,

Greg

JIMinNC · Jun 25, 2016

GregT said:
Please confirm you did deposit it -- I assume it to be the case based upon your description of starting an on-going search, but some people have done this as Request First versus Deposit First -- and Deposit First will maximize the trade power of your week.

Separately, you may have great success using your Barony Beach Club as an (enrolled) dedicated trader versus for its points value.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Best,

Greg

Greg,

Thanks for your response. Yes, I did a Deposit First, right after I reserved the week in late March.

Using the Barony week as a dedicated trader is our plan going forward (assuming we are successful with this and future trade requests). The first two years of our ownership we made a conscious decision to elect for points to give us enough points to test drive the DC Points system for a couple of years, but given that our MF/point cost is $0.76/point for that Barony week, that week is not an efficient point generator. I guess if we really needed the points one year the option is still there to elect, but even then, with point rentals available at $0.50-$0.55 per point or so, renting is a better value. The only situations where I could see us electing for points in the future would be if, 1) we didn't want to take a seven-day trip with that year's week, or 2) we didn't want to shell out the money to rent the points that year and wanted to use the "paid for" points.

bazzap · Jun 25, 2016

Out of interest, have you seen any objective evidence that "Deposit First will maximize the trade power of your week."?
It may be, but we have been advised the opposite by both MVC and II contacts that Request First maximises the trade power because unless they can fulfil our request they don't get our week.
We have used Request First exclusively for many years now with very successful results.

Please confirm you did deposit it -- I assume it to be the case based upon your description of starting an on-going search, but some people have done this as Request First versus Deposit First -- and Deposit First will maximize the trade power of your week.

GregT · Jun 25, 2016

bazzap said:
Out of interest, have you seen any objective evidence that "Deposit First will maximize the trade power of your week."?
It may be, but we have been advised the opposite by both MVC and II contacts that Request First maximises the trade power because unless they can fulfil our request they don't get our week.
We have used Request First exclusively for many years now with very successful results.

Please confirm you did deposit it -- I assume it to be the case based upon your description of starting an on-going search, but some people have done this as Request First versus Deposit First -- and Deposit First will maximize the trade power of your week.

No real evidence of this -- I did a trade test once against a bulk bank, selecting a MOC with a phantom reservation number and using hypothetical reservation dates. I used a bunch of different reservation dates, and my recollection is that the trade power declined significantly when I was 3.5 months away from check-in. I also think there was some difference when less than 8 months away, but it wasn't as distinct as the 3.5 month drop. I posted on it somewhere on TUG and will see if it can be found.

I realize that's a different question that Request First versus Deposit First, but I think that in a Request First situation, your trade power is declining along the lines of the above and I'd rather go with what I understand.

Best,

Greg

bazzap · Jun 25, 2016

Good to know, thank you Greg.

Weeks Trading/TDI Questions

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert

Saintsfanfl

taterhed

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert

Fairwinds

TUG Review Crew

Saintsfanfl

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert

Fairwinds

TUG Review Crew

Big Matt

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

GregT

TUG Member

GregT

TUG Member

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran

GregT

TUG Member

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran