h10studio
TUG Member
Any advice is welcome!
Wednesday September 30th, 2009
PROFECO Complaint Form
Foreign Consumer Information
Name: Eric XXXX & Marie-Helene XXXXXXXX
Address: XXXX street X
Montreal, Quebec
Canada
0X0 X0X
Phone No.: (514) XXX-XXXX
Email Address: h10studio@live.ca
Mexican Supplier’s / Merchant’s Information
Name : H10Premium (Jacktar Hotels)/Ocean Coral & Turquesa
Customer Services Contact Information
Address : Fitzwilliam Business center
77 Sir John Rogerson’s Quay
Dublin 2- Ireland
Phone No. : T+353 1 640 1876/F+353 1 640 1822
Canada : 1-866-940-5726
Mexico: 01-800-410-6292
www.h10premium.com,customerservive@h10premium.com
Explanation of Claim:
To whom it may concerns,
This letter is to inform you of our intention to make a complaint about H10 Premium Vacation Club (Jacktar) and also to cancel the contract by which we are bound to them, for reasons of misrepresentation of the sold product and abusive & illegal sales method. We blocked our credit card before the first monthly payment and we also ask for our initial down-payment ($3170) to be refund.
First you must understand that it was our first time in Mexico and also on all inclusive. Before that event we had absolutely no idea what a timeshare was. When reading this, you will probably think that all the signs were there for us to realize something was wrong (all those reflections between brackets came afterward…), but we had no idea, and they were very convincing (now we know, after a week of research and disappointment on the net!) and yes the 5 days rescission period is over, but we still believe we have the right to cancel for many reasons. Here is, in details, what happened to us:
My girlfriend and I recently bought, through ‘’Vacances Air Transat’’, two all-inclusive weeks in H10 Hotel Ocean Turquesa in Puerto Morelos, Mexico, from August 23rd to September 6th, 2009. As soon as we arrived at the hotel (I barely had the time to check that our luggage have been taken care of properly), we have been approach and taken apart by a ‘’H10 Premium Club representative’’, who, after a brief and elusive description of the club, offered us a special breakfast and a free massage for each one of us, in exchange of our agreement to attend a one to two hour ‘’no obligations’’ privilege club tour/presentation. ‘’Do you want an appointment for tomorrow morning?’’ He said. We were tired and we wanted to take it easy for the beginning of our vacations…so we said we would think about it and come back another day, if interested, to make an appointment. With an obvious frown and an urging tonality, he agreed to give us time to think about it, making it clear the offer wouldn’t last for long.
A week passes, we are relaxed and tanned, we did plenty of activities…there is still a whole week ahead of us…so we say why not? Free massages, a privilege club (we had no idea what to expect…), we are curious, and there are no obligations (???). So on Saturday 29th, expecting it was already too late, we called for an appointment: No problems! Sunday 10 AM in the lobby. What we have been told as a ‘’special breakfast’’ turned out to be an ‘’ordinary breakfast’’ at the same resort buffet where we had breakfast every morning since our arrival. The only thing special or different about this breakfast was that, this time, we had the very friendly company of another representative, ‘‘Noname1’’ (This letter does not specify any names…but if I have to I will), a young Mexican from Merida. The waiter comes, the same as almost every morning, a very kind and polite man, but he seemed to act differently in the presence of our new friend. My girlfriend ordered a mimosa and I, an orange juice. The waiter insisted a lot to bring me a mimosa too, and then our friend ordered one too…arguing that his bosses told him:’’ if guests drink, you drink! ‘’…followed by ‘’I love my job!’’.
We ate, we drank and we talked. The guy was sympathetic. He talked about him, we talked about us…Married? Field of work? Kids? How much time & money spent on vacations? Income???, etc…I noticed he was filling a document, kind of a survey (most likely his next victim’s profile). After breakfast, we go for a little tour of the hotel, privilege beach with couches and services, privilege lounge & bar, top shelf liquors, Master suites, etc. As we walked by the beach, our friend pointed us a few groups of people with golden\green bracelets, and claimed that those people were at the resort for free!
Then we followed ‘’Noname1‘’ to the H10 Premium Club’s ‘’office’’ …which is a nice and fun place, with good music and people laughing, and…a bar! Looked more like the Club’s club to me! But at that time we were expecting an offer of some membership giving us privilege advantages in our future trips, we were not there to buy anything and we had absolutely nothing on us, so we sat at a table and thought: ’’Let’s see what he has to offer…we never know. He calls the barman for us, we order, he orders something for him too (and again he loves his job!). We received drinks twice the size of those of the others bars, in a nice shaped glass! Armed with his yellow sheet pad and a Sharpie, he begins his presentation. With a clumsy hand, he draws lines, squares, numbers & eligible words. Points, weeks, exchange, rental, advantages (only), rental income, resale value, selling & banking points, etc…
We don’t understand a thing at what he’s trying to sell us. He draws more squares (that later turned out to be the weeks of studio units (the timeshare part of their vacation club, but they don’t like to use that term!) and RCI points numbers, rental incomes, maintenance fee, etc…We don’t understand the concept, so we ask a lot of questions. And apparently ‘’Noname1’’ was not very well inform on was he was selling either, because during the next hour or more that passed, he called, at least ten times, his ‘’Boss’’ to answer our questions. Every time, the boss, let’s call him ‘’Noname2’’, left the table where he was sitting with potential new members (the presence of other tourists was a comforting factor), and tried to answer our interrogations. Also with a yellow sheet pad and a Sharpie, he tries harder. He writes numbers, rental income…points, exchange system, RCI, free bonus all inclusive week, resale value, etc…We still don’t get it, we have more questions, which apparently overcomes ‘’Noname2’’ comprehension of what (at that point we didn’t even know how to call it) he’s obviously trying to sell us, because he calls ‘’Noname3’’, another ‘’Boss’’ to help him answer. And so on, during all the presentation, people come and go at our table giving elusive and half-answers to our questions. We also try many times to have the slightest idea of the amount of money we are dealing with (to prevent the presentation from going too far for nothing…), always with the same answer: ‘’not now, we will get to that later…’’. And our big and nice cocktail glasses were replaced before they were even empty…
After a while, we begin to get the picture (at least the one they are trying to sell), their (first) offer looks approximately like this (example):
-120 000 RCI points per year (exchangeable for weeks in affiliated resorts). The way they put it, it seems economic, practical and easy, but we discovered otherwise.
-5 floating weeks in a studio unit in one of the H10 resorts, per year, that we can rent very easily…so they say!
-2 free all-inclusive weeks in one of H10 resorts for the duration of the agreement (plus bonus AI week for every rental of one of our studio weeks that leads to a new H10 Premium Club membership…apparently this is one of the primary goals of their program…)
-discounts, privilege advantage, etc… all this over a 25 years contract.
OK! FINE! BUT HOW MUCH??? $40,000??? NO!!!!!!!!
We told them that we were sorry but we simply cannot afford this and we don’t need it either!’’ Obviously!’’ they said. Then they insisted in making us an offer that would suit better our vacation needs. So they reduced the number of points to 40000, removed 2 studio units and a free AI week and came back with another price: $14,000. Still way too much for us, sorry, we think we better leave. No! Wait! You only have to pay a 25% (plus $400 ‘’administrative fee’’) down payment now…Sorry again, it will not work, we cannot afford to cover that down payment. Can’t you get a loan? Because you should see this like an investment, by renting your 3 studios (it was always unclear how…but they sure claimed it was easy!) for a certain amount of money, retrieved to that the broker’s (they used that word a lot) fee or commission, you could easy pay back your down payment from the profits in a couple or months or less. Lie! We discovered later that the average rental price of a similar unit is slightly less than the annual maintenance fees. They also told us we could sell our RCI points, if we don’t use them during a year, for a considerable price. Lie! Now we know that these points best value is in the exchange system and their resale value is almost worthless. But at that time we believed them. Enough to begin to think it was making sense. Simple, we rent the studios (they made it look like a single phone call would do it…), get rid of the down payment in no time, cover the maintenance fee with the remaining (?) profits, and we either sell point for more profits (!) or use them to go ‘’ANYWHERE in the world’’ (given that we can plan our vacation up to 6 months in advance, which is impossible for us…but still no mention about that). That entire RCI and vacation exchange thing is very complex (especially for newbie’s), we have been given incomplete and untruthful information that tricked us into thinking that their product could maybe suits our needs. So that’s how they succeed to induce a small interest, but my girlfriend and I still agreed that, as perfect as it may seem, we cannot afford that expense.
As we were about to leave, they tried one last time. (Noname2) ‘’Maybe I can’t get a better price, I could try to deal with my superior (?) that we charge you the same price but in Canadian Dollars, reconverted to USD, because we like Canadians. But don’t make me do this for nothing, you must at least confirm that you are interested’’. He was asking for some sort of promise from us. We answered that even if we are ‘’maybe interested’’ we want to think about it first, have a look at our finances and above all, gather some information on the product ( which was obviously not in their interest…) before making a purchase of that importance. So we told them their offer was generous and interesting, that we would think about it, after a good night of sleep, and maybe come back another day (we had 7 days left at the resort…so we had plenty of time to make a good decision). If only it could have stopped there…
‘’We are sorry but this is a one-time deal’’ (I can’t believe we fell for that one!). Apparently, if the membership was not purchased at the end of the presentation, we would never have access again in the future to that level of advantage, rebate, discount, etc…like some kind of ‘’today only promotion’’. We would also have our names put on a ‘’blacklist’’ for holiday club presentations (no! please! don’t!) around the world, probably to make us feel guilty of being attracted by their poisoned gifts (and again I can’t believe they had us with that kind of cheap talk, but I’m sure the never ending drinks helped…). Hearing them talk, they were almost making us a gift. A lot of people would pay a lot to get a hand one of these memberships. A rare occasion, not given to anybody, how lucky we are! Travel around the world, anywhere! And we can even make profit! Living the dream!
to be continued...
Wednesday September 30th, 2009
PROFECO Complaint Form
Foreign Consumer Information
Name: Eric XXXX & Marie-Helene XXXXXXXX
Address: XXXX street X
Montreal, Quebec
Canada
0X0 X0X
Phone No.: (514) XXX-XXXX
Email Address: h10studio@live.ca
Mexican Supplier’s / Merchant’s Information
Name : H10Premium (Jacktar Hotels)/Ocean Coral & Turquesa
Customer Services Contact Information
Address : Fitzwilliam Business center
77 Sir John Rogerson’s Quay
Dublin 2- Ireland
Phone No. : T+353 1 640 1876/F+353 1 640 1822
Canada : 1-866-940-5726
Mexico: 01-800-410-6292
www.h10premium.com,customerservive@h10premium.com
Explanation of Claim:
To whom it may concerns,
This letter is to inform you of our intention to make a complaint about H10 Premium Vacation Club (Jacktar) and also to cancel the contract by which we are bound to them, for reasons of misrepresentation of the sold product and abusive & illegal sales method. We blocked our credit card before the first monthly payment and we also ask for our initial down-payment ($3170) to be refund.
First you must understand that it was our first time in Mexico and also on all inclusive. Before that event we had absolutely no idea what a timeshare was. When reading this, you will probably think that all the signs were there for us to realize something was wrong (all those reflections between brackets came afterward…), but we had no idea, and they were very convincing (now we know, after a week of research and disappointment on the net!) and yes the 5 days rescission period is over, but we still believe we have the right to cancel for many reasons. Here is, in details, what happened to us:
My girlfriend and I recently bought, through ‘’Vacances Air Transat’’, two all-inclusive weeks in H10 Hotel Ocean Turquesa in Puerto Morelos, Mexico, from August 23rd to September 6th, 2009. As soon as we arrived at the hotel (I barely had the time to check that our luggage have been taken care of properly), we have been approach and taken apart by a ‘’H10 Premium Club representative’’, who, after a brief and elusive description of the club, offered us a special breakfast and a free massage for each one of us, in exchange of our agreement to attend a one to two hour ‘’no obligations’’ privilege club tour/presentation. ‘’Do you want an appointment for tomorrow morning?’’ He said. We were tired and we wanted to take it easy for the beginning of our vacations…so we said we would think about it and come back another day, if interested, to make an appointment. With an obvious frown and an urging tonality, he agreed to give us time to think about it, making it clear the offer wouldn’t last for long.
A week passes, we are relaxed and tanned, we did plenty of activities…there is still a whole week ahead of us…so we say why not? Free massages, a privilege club (we had no idea what to expect…), we are curious, and there are no obligations (???). So on Saturday 29th, expecting it was already too late, we called for an appointment: No problems! Sunday 10 AM in the lobby. What we have been told as a ‘’special breakfast’’ turned out to be an ‘’ordinary breakfast’’ at the same resort buffet where we had breakfast every morning since our arrival. The only thing special or different about this breakfast was that, this time, we had the very friendly company of another representative, ‘‘Noname1’’ (This letter does not specify any names…but if I have to I will), a young Mexican from Merida. The waiter comes, the same as almost every morning, a very kind and polite man, but he seemed to act differently in the presence of our new friend. My girlfriend ordered a mimosa and I, an orange juice. The waiter insisted a lot to bring me a mimosa too, and then our friend ordered one too…arguing that his bosses told him:’’ if guests drink, you drink! ‘’…followed by ‘’I love my job!’’.
We ate, we drank and we talked. The guy was sympathetic. He talked about him, we talked about us…Married? Field of work? Kids? How much time & money spent on vacations? Income???, etc…I noticed he was filling a document, kind of a survey (most likely his next victim’s profile). After breakfast, we go for a little tour of the hotel, privilege beach with couches and services, privilege lounge & bar, top shelf liquors, Master suites, etc. As we walked by the beach, our friend pointed us a few groups of people with golden\green bracelets, and claimed that those people were at the resort for free!
Then we followed ‘’Noname1‘’ to the H10 Premium Club’s ‘’office’’ …which is a nice and fun place, with good music and people laughing, and…a bar! Looked more like the Club’s club to me! But at that time we were expecting an offer of some membership giving us privilege advantages in our future trips, we were not there to buy anything and we had absolutely nothing on us, so we sat at a table and thought: ’’Let’s see what he has to offer…we never know. He calls the barman for us, we order, he orders something for him too (and again he loves his job!). We received drinks twice the size of those of the others bars, in a nice shaped glass! Armed with his yellow sheet pad and a Sharpie, he begins his presentation. With a clumsy hand, he draws lines, squares, numbers & eligible words. Points, weeks, exchange, rental, advantages (only), rental income, resale value, selling & banking points, etc…
We don’t understand a thing at what he’s trying to sell us. He draws more squares (that later turned out to be the weeks of studio units (the timeshare part of their vacation club, but they don’t like to use that term!) and RCI points numbers, rental incomes, maintenance fee, etc…We don’t understand the concept, so we ask a lot of questions. And apparently ‘’Noname1’’ was not very well inform on was he was selling either, because during the next hour or more that passed, he called, at least ten times, his ‘’Boss’’ to answer our questions. Every time, the boss, let’s call him ‘’Noname2’’, left the table where he was sitting with potential new members (the presence of other tourists was a comforting factor), and tried to answer our interrogations. Also with a yellow sheet pad and a Sharpie, he tries harder. He writes numbers, rental income…points, exchange system, RCI, free bonus all inclusive week, resale value, etc…We still don’t get it, we have more questions, which apparently overcomes ‘’Noname2’’ comprehension of what (at that point we didn’t even know how to call it) he’s obviously trying to sell us, because he calls ‘’Noname3’’, another ‘’Boss’’ to help him answer. And so on, during all the presentation, people come and go at our table giving elusive and half-answers to our questions. We also try many times to have the slightest idea of the amount of money we are dealing with (to prevent the presentation from going too far for nothing…), always with the same answer: ‘’not now, we will get to that later…’’. And our big and nice cocktail glasses were replaced before they were even empty…
After a while, we begin to get the picture (at least the one they are trying to sell), their (first) offer looks approximately like this (example):
-120 000 RCI points per year (exchangeable for weeks in affiliated resorts). The way they put it, it seems economic, practical and easy, but we discovered otherwise.
-5 floating weeks in a studio unit in one of the H10 resorts, per year, that we can rent very easily…so they say!
-2 free all-inclusive weeks in one of H10 resorts for the duration of the agreement (plus bonus AI week for every rental of one of our studio weeks that leads to a new H10 Premium Club membership…apparently this is one of the primary goals of their program…)
-discounts, privilege advantage, etc… all this over a 25 years contract.
OK! FINE! BUT HOW MUCH??? $40,000??? NO!!!!!!!!
We told them that we were sorry but we simply cannot afford this and we don’t need it either!’’ Obviously!’’ they said. Then they insisted in making us an offer that would suit better our vacation needs. So they reduced the number of points to 40000, removed 2 studio units and a free AI week and came back with another price: $14,000. Still way too much for us, sorry, we think we better leave. No! Wait! You only have to pay a 25% (plus $400 ‘’administrative fee’’) down payment now…Sorry again, it will not work, we cannot afford to cover that down payment. Can’t you get a loan? Because you should see this like an investment, by renting your 3 studios (it was always unclear how…but they sure claimed it was easy!) for a certain amount of money, retrieved to that the broker’s (they used that word a lot) fee or commission, you could easy pay back your down payment from the profits in a couple or months or less. Lie! We discovered later that the average rental price of a similar unit is slightly less than the annual maintenance fees. They also told us we could sell our RCI points, if we don’t use them during a year, for a considerable price. Lie! Now we know that these points best value is in the exchange system and their resale value is almost worthless. But at that time we believed them. Enough to begin to think it was making sense. Simple, we rent the studios (they made it look like a single phone call would do it…), get rid of the down payment in no time, cover the maintenance fee with the remaining (?) profits, and we either sell point for more profits (!) or use them to go ‘’ANYWHERE in the world’’ (given that we can plan our vacation up to 6 months in advance, which is impossible for us…but still no mention about that). That entire RCI and vacation exchange thing is very complex (especially for newbie’s), we have been given incomplete and untruthful information that tricked us into thinking that their product could maybe suits our needs. So that’s how they succeed to induce a small interest, but my girlfriend and I still agreed that, as perfect as it may seem, we cannot afford that expense.
As we were about to leave, they tried one last time. (Noname2) ‘’Maybe I can’t get a better price, I could try to deal with my superior (?) that we charge you the same price but in Canadian Dollars, reconverted to USD, because we like Canadians. But don’t make me do this for nothing, you must at least confirm that you are interested’’. He was asking for some sort of promise from us. We answered that even if we are ‘’maybe interested’’ we want to think about it first, have a look at our finances and above all, gather some information on the product ( which was obviously not in their interest…) before making a purchase of that importance. So we told them their offer was generous and interesting, that we would think about it, after a good night of sleep, and maybe come back another day (we had 7 days left at the resort…so we had plenty of time to make a good decision). If only it could have stopped there…
‘’We are sorry but this is a one-time deal’’ (I can’t believe we fell for that one!). Apparently, if the membership was not purchased at the end of the presentation, we would never have access again in the future to that level of advantage, rebate, discount, etc…like some kind of ‘’today only promotion’’. We would also have our names put on a ‘’blacklist’’ for holiday club presentations (no! please! don’t!) around the world, probably to make us feel guilty of being attracted by their poisoned gifts (and again I can’t believe they had us with that kind of cheap talk, but I’m sure the never ending drinks helped…). Hearing them talk, they were almost making us a gift. A lot of people would pay a lot to get a hand one of these memberships. A rare occasion, not given to anybody, how lucky we are! Travel around the world, anywhere! And we can even make profit! Living the dream!
to be continued...