Vistana branding at WKORV (or lack of)

Although we are not checking in at WKORV until Saturday, I walked through the lobby this morning and went to the timeshare presentation check-in area, and I did not see any references to Vistana, Vistana Signature Experience, or anything similar. Every large sign said either Westin or Westin Vacation Ownership. I started to wonder if they are not going to market the Vistana brand, but rather stay with the well known and respected 'Westin".

If we are asked (and enough SP are offered), we will likely attend the 'Owners Update' to see what they have to say.

As we are staying at the Westin Maui until Saturday, I was surprised they did not try to sign us up for a presentation at the Villas as they have always done in the past. I guess that with the split being completed, there are no more joint marketing efforts between the Westin hotel (soon to be a Marriott property) and the WKORV (already VSE).

I guess Lakeside Terrace and Harborside will be out of luck as they don't belong to either the Sheraton Vacation Club or the Westin Vacation Club.

tschwa2 said:

I guess Lakeside Terrace and Harborside will be out of luck as they don't belong to either the Sheraton Vacation Club or the Westin Vacation Club.

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Is there even a sales team at either of those now?

When we went on a presentation at Mission Hills, the salespeople and concierge were adamant that the name Vistana will be separate from Westin. They were indignant that the changes were not catastrophic to the Westin name in any way.

I was also told that Sheratons would never get to exchange into the Westin properties after ILG's takeover. We would never get the Westins again with our Sheraton property. The two salespeople actually had no idea where SBP was or if they even offered Staroptions. It was bizarre.

tschwa2 said:

I guess Lakeside Terrace and Harborside will be out of luck as they don't belong to either the Sheraton Vacation Club or the Westin Vacation Club.

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We were heavily encouraged to attend an owner's update last week at Harborside. We declined that, but did drop in on the owner's reception for the free booze :whoopie: We missed the first part of the presentation, and the rest was just rah-rah great to be here and raffle drawings, but I did note that on the signs where Starwood would have normally appeared was covered over with masking tape. I thought I grabbed a picture of it, but can't find it now.

The Haileys said:

but I did note that on the signs where Starwood would have normally appeared was covered over with masking tape.

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Really classy, nothing says "buy now for tens of thousands of dollars" better...

It's gotta be tough to be a Star,er, Vistana Signature Experiences salesperson now. The Flex program is such a crap shoot because nobody knows what inventory is going to be like or if the cost per FlexPoint is going to remain steady year after year.

And, of course, nobody knows what's going to happen with Interval, or if Marriott is going to even honor SPG elite membership. There is no way I'd buy an VSE timeshare right now, with all these uncertainties.

However, given that our new parent is an exchange company, if I were to put my money on anything, it's that exchanges will continue. There's no way they'd only allow Westin owners to trade to other Westins, unless they dismantled the entire SO program and started from scratch. And why in the world would they do that and devalue 75% of their entire portfolio?

At WKORV NOW

Went to owners update. 6,000 starpoints or $100. Took the $100. Owners Update is same a before. Explained potential changes but nothing new....of course. Cash margin to upgrade or exchange other locations for purchase here is $70k. Area for sales has expanded and been remodeled. Very nice. Fresh cookies and coffee are the benefits!:whoopie:

We are checking in at WKORV tomorrow. Yesterday, my wife went to the concierge at the Westin Maui hotel, and they asked her if we wanted to do an owners update and offered 12,000 SP which is the most we have ever been offered. She said yes, so we will be doing it later this morning. They said that their offer was better than what it's offered at the villas.

Owners update at the Westin Maui

We attended the Owners Update at the Westin Maui (not at WKORV). I guess VSE must be renting some space at the hotel for their sales presentation.

There must have been some miscommunication between the concierge (who booked the sales presentation) and the salespeople, as the latter didn't know we were already owners. They indicated that they typically get hotel guests and not villa owners at their presentations.

Either way, we ended up with 12,000 starpoints after a 60-minute meeting - mostly driven by my questions regarding Vistana (for the timeshare part) and Marriott (for the hotel part).

We were offered to upgrade to the Nanea property at pre-construction prices by turning in our OV Lockoff WKORV unit plus $30k in exchange for a 3-BR Nanea worth just under 200,000 staroptions (compared to the 148,000 staroptions associated with the WKORV unit.)

One thing that surprised me was that the salesperson indicated that the Starwood Preferred Guest program and the Marriott Rewards program will remain separate for years to come. I am not convinced that will be the case, according to what I have read previously which pointed to a merge of the programs in 2017.

Nowhere in the presentation room was there a reference to Vistana Signature Experience. It is very clear they want to maintain the Westin name for marketing purposes. Only in a booklet they gave us, the VSE reference appeared a handful of times, while Westin and Sheraton were mentioned countless times. Even SPG was mentioned as a nice benefit of their program.

For those of you wondering - no, we did not upgrade to the Westin Nanea

Pedro said:

One thing that surprised me was that the salesperson indicated that the Starwood Preferred Guest program and the Marriott Rewards program will remain separate for years to come. I am not convinced that will be the case, according to what I have read previously which pointed to a merge of the programs in 2017.

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Didn't one of the public announcements from Marriott suggest that they weren't going to do anything with the SPG program until 2018?

YYJMSP said:

Didn't one of the public announcements from Marriott suggest that they weren't going to do anything with the SPG program until 2018?

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I had read back in late 2015 that it would take a couple of years to fully merge the programs. However, you are correct - the public announcement issued earlier this year said 2018.

I hope they avoid using Vistana--to me it means a cheap crappy Orlando Disney experience where you can go to Disneyworld and get crap- like pins instead of anything of quality your grand kids could enjoy years later

As to Marriott honoring Elite memberships--LisaRex said she is unsure---
Of course they will honor they are contractually bound --read their agreements--one of the greatest values Starwood offered to Marriot was the value and retention of membership for its Hotels and fact 60% of revenue was from loyal customers. -Starwood loyalty program points are 3x's more valuable than Marriots--Marriott needs to learn how from Starwood to generate value like Starwood. To buy a company that has 60% of its revenues generated by loyal customers to merely disregard the loyal Elite members is ludicrous--Marriott is not stupid and they would not spend the cost plus a premium on top of that cost to acquire a loyalty program and hotels just to ignore Elite members of reducing the value of the investment they just made

Marriott managers are intelligent and Starwood managers are on board

Interval has long term agreements signed to retain value of Names Westin etc.

Marriott is expanding and has recognized numerous market oppurtunities to expand and consolidate its offerings--They are required to honor SPG points in their purchase

Scott

The objective of Sheraton Flex vacations is to create expanded flexibility of rental times from weekly rentals to more fractional rentals able to accommodate more people-- check in and check out for only a few day rentals like a Hotel --increasing flexibility of rental units This is both good and bad for users---usage for a few days at a time can be great--however you will have more competition for those days potentially

Sheraton is achieving this by trying to gain back control over Deeded property-threw shrewd marketing and by convincing owners to sell their deeded property in exchange for a points program

i.e. You sell ownership in an airplane and usage rights of a guaranteed week during year for a promise from the Airline to utilize your week a few days at a time through a future and present point program--by forfeiting deeded property----you wind up competing with other points owners for the few Airline seats available by forfeiting ownership but you gain ability to travel for 1 or 2 or 3 days at a time Airline point owners for the few allotted seats available and the deeded

Their are advantages and disadvantges to both--It depends on ones needs--If you want to travel a few days at a time Flex may work if you want deeded property and legal rights of minority owner as law provides but have to book a week at a time that may be better


Scott

Scott & Laura said:

As to Marriott honoring Elite memberships--LisaRex said she is unsure---
Of course they will honor they are contractually bound --read their agreements.

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They are contractually bound to honor what? The only official wording I've ever seen about ANY loyalty program is that it's subject to change at the whim of the Operator. Yes, Marriott probably will fold in former SPG elites into their new program. But nobody knows what that will mean for them because the disparity between the two programs is so great. Very reputable newspapers (e.g. WSJ, for one) are reporting that the merger will not be a good thing for SPG members.

And then we have anecdotal evidence following mergers. I've seen Delta screw their elite members, not by dismantling the entire program, but by watering down the benefits of the program (e.g. doubling the number of miles needed to fly for free or to be upgraded), to the points where their elite members termed the internal currency "SkyPesos." I've also seen SVO promise late check-outs and villa upgrades to their 5* elites, only to renege on that promise (and then have the audacity to call it a program enhancement).

Believe what you will. Time will tell. My gut tells me that SVO elites will be screwed in this merger.

LisaRex said:

My gut tells me that SVO elites will be screwed in this merger.

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You mean VSE elites

LisaRex

The points program between SVN now Vistana was sold to Interval who retained rights to access points program with Starwood Hotels sold to Marriott

They can change and modify a points program but Interval has an agreement to utilize it and therefore there exists substantial obligations the Starwood/Marriott points program has to abide by. They can not merely dismiss or devalue the program as a whim.

Points programs are known to be huge generators of income to businesses --so much in fact---When airlines go bankrupt they never touch the points programs

Marriott will not diminish its value but will try to get Marriotts lower value program up to Starwood levels---They bought Starwood and considered the points program extremely valuable and important


Scott

Clarification: II does not own VSE. ILG (Interval Leisure Group) the parent company of II, owns VSE.

Please provide documentation for this:

They can change and modify a points program but Interval has an agreement to utilize it and therefore there exists substantial obligations the Starwood/Marriott points program has to abide by. They can not merely dismiss or devalue the program as a whim.

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Thank You I shortened name


As to ownership How come Starwood merges with ILG but posses 55% and has people on board and ILG is called owner with 45% of ownership

Just a thought for consideration


Scott

okwiater said:

You mean VSE elites

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Argh!

We know what SVO elites were entitled to. We have no idea what VSE elites will be entitled to. With Marriott acquiring SPG and ILG acquiring VSE, it's a complete mess.

I just can't imagine that VSE is going to enjoy the cozy relationship with Marriott that SVO enjoyed with SPG. I could be wrong, but to me it's very telling that Starwood (HOT) wanted to distance itself from SVO prior to being put on the market.

Scott&Laura said:

Thank You I shortened name


As to ownership How come Starwood merges with ILG but posses 55% and has people on board and ILG is called owner with 45% of ownership

Just a thought for consideration


Scott

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Starwood doesn't own anything. The Starwood shareholders own 55% of ILG stock. Those shareholders are mainly big pension plans and mutual funds. Not actual people or a company. Those same shareholders will get a certain number of Marriott shares when Marriott completes the acquisition of Starwood. Those shareholders have voting rights to name board members and approve certain other motions, not much else.

VSE is a company owned by the parent ILG. ILG really won't have a lot of control or influence in day to day operations of VSE. That will be up to the VSE management given the overall direction from the ILG board. Looking at the board of directs of HOT vs ILG, it appears that there is only one person that sits on both boards. It is quite common in these industries for people to sit on more than one board.

As I have posted about before, the SPG affiliation agreement does give ILG/VSE the ability to continue starpoint conversions and SPG elite levels. However, these agreements are with SPG, not the new combined loyalty program that will eventually be created, which is why I, too, am worried about the future relationship btw. VSE and SPG. There is also a section of what happens if SPG is merged with another program, although it is a bit ambiguous.

Sections to note from the SPG Affiliation Agreement:

In connection with the License Agreement, Starwood and its affiliate, Preferred Guest, Inc., and Vistana will enter into the SPG Affiliation Agreement, which will provide for the continued participation of Vistana, the Westin®, Sheraton®, St. Regis® and The Luxury Collection®, branded properties and certain licensed unbranded vacation ownership properties in Starwood's Starwood Preferred Guest® loyalty program. The SPG Affiliation Agreement permits Vistana and its affiliates to offer Starpoints® to SPG Members as an incentive upon purchase of a Vistana vacation ownership property, for conversion of a licensed vacation ownership interest or property...

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Merger of Programs. In the event the SPG Program is combined with or becomes part of another Loyalty Program, Starwood shall treat Owners who hold Starpoints in a manner consistent with other SPG Members other than with respect to the rights described in Sections 4(a) and 6(a).

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Note that Section 4(a) deals with 6 year expiration of starpoints, and 6(a) deals with elite status offerings (bolding is mine):

(a)Elite Offerings. Vistana may provide (i) Gold Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any Owner of a Licensed Vacation Ownership Property (other than Specified Fractional Properties) or a Licensed Unbranded Property until such Owner is no longer an Owner of such Vacation Ownership Property; (ii) Platinum Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any initial purchaser of fractional units at Specified Fractional Properties during such initial purchaser’s term of ownership of such fractional unit; and (iii) Platinum Preferred Guest status in the SPG Program to any Owner who is a Five Star Elite member (as defined in the Vistana Specific Use SOP) until such Owner is no longer an Owner of Licensed Vacation Ownership Properties or Licensed Unbranded Properties or fails to meet the Five Star Elite member requirements which are set forth in the Vistana Specific Use SOP (collectively, the “Elite Offerings”).

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