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What is the Future for DVC? Thoughts?

Lisa P

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Each developer that has had staying power in the timeshare industry has succeeding in their respective niche markets. Hyatt, Marriott, Intrawest, and to some degree, Hilton, have developed high end resort properties with deluxe interiors in upscale destinations, including beachfront and ski resorts. Disney has heavily themed resorts with the most success selling those within walking/boating/monorail distance of their theme parks. Wyndham, Bluegreen, WorldMark, and a few others have created large internal exchange systems of nice resorts in diverse locations - relative consistency of resort experience with a great variety of travel locations, including access to prime season travel reservations without the added costs or hassle of exchange companies. This flexibility is key for the points-based system market.

Every one of these developers offers something of real value to their respective niche markets which is not available with non-franchise timeshare ownership. Over the last (nearly 20) years, we've thoroughly enjoyed having so many resorts within a day's drive for short stays, most of them with indoor swimming pools, minigolf, walk out to the ocean, even a few with mini-waterparks. These features have been very high priority for us but if they weren't, the resorts could seem much less special to others. Likewise, we enjoy availability of resort-to-park transportation and the lovely grounds of the DVC properties but it's often not the highest priority for us when we vacation in Florida and we sometimes top out after seeing the Disney icons, hearing Disney music, and paying Disney prices for everything onsite. DVC also has its own niche market.

DVC knows their market VERY well. They market their contracts as RTU purposely because they understand that a lifetime of Disney is a tougher sell.
Actually, I think they market their contracts as RTU purposely because they've not wanted to sell the underlying deeds. Why would they when they can (due to location and onsite transportation) make a profit by selling just the leaseholds? The Members pay dues to further update and maintain DVC properties, then hand them back over to Disney. Pretty sweet deal for Disney.

Not only does DVC have a 100% monopoly over the timeshare market, but the Starwood Swan and Dolphin resorts are literally the only non-Disney lodging options that offer this access.
I would suspect that the only reason Disney does not pull this access from Starwood's hotels is because, realistically, they can't. People would just walk next door and take the buses and boats.

To me, a big question is, now that Disney has developed (or is developing) timeshare space at all "deluxe" WDW properties (except Yacht Club), what next? Whenever they add DVC villas to a deluxe hotel, most of the infrastructure and resort staff are already in place. It just amounts to adding rooms, a quiet pool, and maybe a community hall. Low investment, huge return. Establishing free-standing resorts, both on WDW property and in their 3 coastal locations, has required a higher cost of development and a MUCH longer, slower sales process to reach sell-out.

So what do you think they'll do next? Convert part of Yacht Club? Create something freestanding at Fort Wilderness or on undeveloped WDW land? Select a non-theme-park location? Try a DVC at a moderate resort? Or lay low and cap off new DVC development for a while?
 
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SMHarman

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Each developer that has had staying power in the timeshare industry has succeeding in their respective niche markets. Hyatt, Marriott, Intrawest, and to some degree, Hilton, have developed high end resort properties with deluxe interiors in upscale destinations, including beachfront and ski resorts. Disney has heavily themed resorts with the most success selling those within walking/boating/monorail distance of their theme parks. Wyndham, Bluegreen, WorldMark, and a few others have created large internal exchange systems of nice resorts in diverse locations - relative consistency of resort experience with a great variety of travel locations, including access to prime season travel reservations without the added costs or hassle of exchange companies. This flexibility is key for the points-based system market.

Every one of these developers offers something of real value to their respective niche markets which is not available with non-franchise timeshare ownership. Over the last (nearly 20) years, we've thoroughly enjoyed having so many resorts within a day's drive for short stays, most of them with indoor swimming pools, minigolf, walk out to the ocean, even a few with mini-waterparks. These features have been very high priority for us but if they weren't, the resorts could seem much less special to others. Likewise, we enjoy availability of resort-to-park transportation and the lovely grounds of the DVC properties but it's often not the highest priority for us when we vacation in Florida and we sometimes top out after seeing the Disney icons, hearing Disney music, and paying Disney prices for everything onsite. DVC also has its own niche market.


Actually, I think they market their contracts as RTU purposely because they've not wanted to sell the underlying deeds. Why would they when they can (due to location and onsite transportation) make a profit by selling just the leaseholds? The Members pay dues to further update and maintain DVC properties, then hand them back over to Disney. Pretty sweet deal for Disney.


I would suspect that the only reason Disney does not pull this access from Starwood's hotels is because, realistically, they can't. People would just walk next door and take the buses and boats.

To me, a big question is, now that Disney has developed (or is developing) timeshare space at all "deluxe" WDW properties (except Yacht Club), what next? Whenever they add DVC villas to a deluxe hotel, most of the infrastructure and resort staff are already in place. It just amounts to adding rooms, a quiet pool, and maybe a community hall. Low investment, huge return. Establishing free-standing resorts, both on WDW property and in their 3 coastal locations, has required a higher cost of development and a MUCH longer, slower sales process to reach sell-out.

So what do you think they'll do next? Convert part of Yacht Club? Create something freestanding at Fort Wilderness or on undeveloped WDW land? Select a non-theme-park location? Try a DVC at a moderate resort? Or lay low and cap off new DVC development for a while?
Find a Caribbean island for a pirates themed resort.

Catch the East coasters like aluanu does for the west.
 

Lisa P

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I agree that there are wonderful alternatives to a themed resort in Florida. For most of the DVC niche market, membership is about association with the theme parks. A much smaller subset also values the Disney cruise option.

A themed resort in the Caribbean has probably been under consideration by Disney numerous times. Starwood has already captured part of this (themed resort in the Caribbean) market with Harbourside/Atlantis. Wyndham/Margaritaville is developing in St. Thomas and San Juan/Rio Mar. There are several gorgeous Caribbean resorts by other developers, upscale, though less themed.

Building a stand-alone resort on a hurricane-prone island with a foreign government requires an enormous investment and a tolerance for more risk in being unable to influence the future of the resort... two things Disney has not tackled to date. Their RTU model means they are especially sensitive to considering the long term commitment to location. The U.S. Virgin Islands offers some seriously pricey real estate to a developer.

Disney did develop a very nice, small, private island for their cruise line's day-use. I'm guessing they've learned much first-hand about maintaining property in a hurricane-prone destination. ;) I suppose this could be interesting to consider what they could do with a "real" full scale Caribbean resort. But have sales in Hawaii and their other offsite resorts been robust enough for them to seriously consider doing something like this?
 
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Big Matt

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I love going to Disney World in Orlando. I used to be able to trade in to DVC via II, but not now that they are with RCI. I have a lot of friends who own DVC and the ones who really love Disney double down and get an annual pass also. They go three times a year and stay at DVC twice and a Marriott once. So they spend around $6-7 thousand dollars a year on Disney. That seems excessive to me, but they love it. My question to them is "What are you going to do with all of your points when the kids go to college and grow up?"

As for the future, I'd say it is limited. Other than Orlando, none of the DVC properties is on par with the best competitors in the other locations. Even in Orlando, the properties don't compare to Lakeshore Reserve for example. More importantly to me is their inability to cross sell the brands owned by Disney the parent company. They tried hard to cross brand with ABC and ESPN, but neither seems to fit with the Disney theme park audiences.
 

vacationhopeful

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,,,. They tried hard to cross brand with ABC and ESPN, but neither seems to fit with the Disney theme park audiences.

My younger sister just LOVES the ESPN bar near BWV. She follows sports like a bookie ... and most likely knows several. She would rather be at the ESPN bar than doing EMH at the parks ... but does the AM EMH as the ESPN is not yet open.

There is a Market for sports bars .. even at DVC.

PS I DID NOT disclose HOW to get to/from ESPN during our 2 almost week long stays at DVC ... AKV and VWL. She just followed me around the parks and on the buses.
 

elaine

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we enjoy going to DVC and not even going into the parks. It is one of the few totally integrated places that we can vacation: great pools, lots of other fun things to do--bike riding, boat rentals, just walking around resorts, boat to DTD, decent foodie places, campfire, and being able to take a bus anywhere. We live in a congested area, and not having to drive is a huge + for me. DH and I went to AKV and stayed for 5 days and a getaway last Jan. We bought more DVC points b/c our younger teens like it and DH and I will use DVC in retirement for a few weeks as snow birds.
 

Southerngirl528

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My question to them is "What are you going to do with all of your points when the kids go to college and grow up?"

As for the future, I'd say it is limited. Other than Orlando, none of the DVC properties is on par with the best competitors in the other locations. Even in Orlando, the properties don't compare to Lakeshore Reserve for example. More importantly to me is their inability to cross sell the brands owned by Disney the parent company. They tried hard to cross brand with ABC and ESPN, but neither seems to fit with the Disney theme park audiences.

Can't speak for every member, but this DVC Member of well over 2 decades actually uses MORE points than when my big brood were still in school. I give each a wedding gift of a week somewhere. When we get together at least every other year, I need a GV for a week or more. I have a nice sized amount of points and I use 'em all!!

I have to respectfully disagree that, "none of the (non-Orlando) DVC properties is on par w/the best competitors in other locations". I assume you have not visited Disney's Aulani resort on Oahu. That is my very favorite Disney resort. Yes, I'm including EVERY Disney resort, not just DVC resorts. It is a very special resort. And though I have not stayed at the GCV, I have been there and all reports I get are that it is a great place. And yes, it is connected to a Disney theme park, but it's not in Orlando.

All that said I would definitely put the Marriott Maui Ocean Club Napili/Lahaina towers and that resorts' entire grounds and staff, up against any DVC resort. It's a fabulous location and a huge property.
 

Big Matt

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I was at Ko Olina and explored Aulani, but only to wander around the perimeter. Aulani seemed overcrowded, sits on a man made lagoon, and is on a part of the island that is out of the way. Granted, it is still almost new so I'm sure the units are nice. I don't like the Kapolei area so maybe that taints my view of Aulini also. There are so many better choices in Hawaii that are in natural (not man made) settings.

Like I said in my original post, I love Disney and the Disney experience. The timeshares themselves don't stack up. Take Hilton Head. DVC is a neat fishing camp theme on a beautiful setting, but it isn't on the beach. It doesn't compare the the ones that are because of the location. I've stayed at Marriott, DVC (Old Key West, Saratoga, Bwalk Villas, BClub Villas, and Wilderness Lodge Villas), and a few other Wyndham and Diamond locations so I have a pretty large reference pool over the last 12 years. DVC is a good brand, but the premium is due to the experience and not the timeshares on their own merit. I also own Disney stock so my comments are constructive if anything.

C
I have to respectfully disagree that, "none of the (non-Orlando) DVC properties is on par w/the best competitors in other locations". I assume you have not visited Disney's Aulani resort on Oahu. That is my very favorite Disney resort. Yes, I'm including EVERY Disney resort, not just DVC resorts. It is a very special resort. And though I have not stayed at the GCV, I have been there and all reports I get are that it is a great place. And yes, it is connected to a Disney theme park, but it's not in Orlando.

All that said I would definitely put the Marriott Maui Ocean Club Napili/Lahaina towers and that resorts' entire grounds and staff, up against any DVC resort. It's a fabulous location and a huge property.
 

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I love going to Disney World in Orlando. I used to be able to trade in to DVC via II, but not now that they are with RCI. I have a lot of friends who own DVC and the ones who really love Disney double down and get an annual pass also. They go three times a year and stay at DVC twice and a Marriott once. So they spend around $6-7 thousand dollars a year on Disney. That seems excessive to me, but they love it. My question to them is "What are you going to do with all of your points when the kids go to college and grow up?"

I'd say you have no comprehension of how true Disney folks think and behave. I'm 71 now and it's been 25 years since we did Disney as a family. But my wife and I go there - by ourselves - as often as we can. And yes, we too buy annual passes. This is a great adult experience, not just a place to take the kids!
 

Southerngirl528

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I was at Ko Olina and explored Aulani, but only to wander around the perimeter. Aulani seemed overcrowded, sits on a man made lagoon, and is on a part of the island that is out of the way. Granted, it is still almost new so I'm sure the units are nice. I don't like the Kapolei area so maybe that taints my view of Aulini also. There are so many better choices in Hawaii that are in natural (not man made) settings.
.

Big Matt, you quote the exact reasons I do not care for Waikiki/Honolulu. Way too much big city for my liking. For that reason Ko Olina is preferred for any time we choose to be on Oahu. And using my DVC points makes Ko Olina's relative quiet extra nice. Our favorite island is Maui. And we especially like staying on the east side almost every trip as well. Unspoiled and lovely.

I always say it is a good thing not everyone likes the exact same thing because no one could ever get a rez! :D

And Stanleyu, I entirely understand! DH and I have been on multiple Disney cruises with no kids. Just the two of us and we think DCL provides an outstanding experience for adults.
 

elaine

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We actually prefer DVC HHI to oceanfront locations. We love the marsh, being in the oak trees with a nice breeze. I did a conference call on the balcony in July @ 2pm and was not too hot. We like taking the little shuttle over or riding bikes, and love the oceanfront beachhouse and pool with a quick serve restaurant. Maybe we have had too much kool-aid, but it's a really great family experience, with smores, sing a longs, and outdoor movies and games. It's more of the whole package vs. just the lodging, IMHO. We liked DVc enough to buy points (resale) and divest another beach timeshare.
 

Big Matt

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Well, maybe you don't know me either. I go to Disney all the time. I'm getting ready to be an empty nester and my wife and I will go more often once she retires from teaching and we can go when we want to go. I've even thought about retiring near Orlando and maybe even work at Disney World in some capacity. My point was how much money is being spent. I'm cheap so maybe that has something to do with it. The annual passes are a good deal if you can use them, and frankly I'll buy them when I can go more often. ....and I'm a Marriott junkie so I stay in the Marriott timeshares instead of DVC, but that's only because I can't trade into it anymore and don't find the price point appealing. Again, maybe I'm too cheap.

I'd say you have no comprehension of how true Disney folks think and behave. I'm 71 now and it's been 25 years since we did Disney as a family. But my wife and I go there - by ourselves - as often as we can. And yes, we too buy annual passes. This is a great adult experience, not just a place to take the kids!
 

elaine

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I've even thought about retiring near Orlando and maybe even work at Disney World in some capacity.
We have also thought about doing this, as well. We will easily use up all our DVC points and likely need more when we retire. I have heard that many OKW units are used by DVCers for 6+ weeks as snow bird units.
 

kanerf

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I could see a DVC New Orleans or DVC Key West. Both are somewhat pricey areas that could probably support a small DVC.
 
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mj2vacation

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Problem is that Disney demands that their divisions produce a net income of at least 60%. It is very game of thronesish. If DVC won't produce it, that's ok, just shift the funds to the "other" divisions who will. DVC then does not get money for new resorts, ala post Aulani.

Disney will always go with the safe option, which limits them to WDW.

Aulani was an homage to the ego of Jim Lewis and Al Weiss. Putting the keys to the kingdom in those hands eventually cost the two candidates for ceo their jobs.

Hence, secession anxiety for when Iger finally decides to abdicate the Iron Throne.
 

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I've often wondered why Disney hasn't made a little more use of existing facilities and space - maybe that's yet to come. For instance there is room for another resort between the Grand Floridian and MK. Also, they could put in some sort of light rail or monorail around Bay Lake and build a number of premium beach front resorts there. If they don't want to put in a new monorail they could use the existing line between MK and Epcot and put int a couple of switched sidings for resort use only. There is an existing lake along that line that could be dredged/improved, or they could put in a wilderness-themed resort as well.

Bottom line is that there is a ton of space still vacant at WDW - they already own it, they have development rights to it, and can get the best investment returns on it. Seems like a no-brainer to me!
 

Jason245

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I've often wondered why Disney hasn't made a little more use of existing facilities and space - maybe that's yet to come. For instance there is room for another resort between the Grand Floridian and MK. Also, they could put in some sort of light rail or monorail around Bay Lake and build a number of premium beach front resorts there. If they don't want to put in a new monorail they could use the existing line between MK and Epcot and put int a couple of switched sidings for resort use only. There is an existing lake along that line that could be dredged/improved, or they could put in a wilderness-themed resort as well.

Bottom line is that there is a ton of space still vacant at WDW - they already own it, they have development rights to it, and can get the best investment returns on it. Seems like a no-brainer to me!
They are taking it slow and steady. . You can't charge premium prices if you don't have full occupancy. Also gators eating kids kinda makes beach front property a hard selling point.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

littlestar

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Also gators eating kids kinda makes beach front property a hard selling point.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

Yeah, no kidding. I have totally lost my desire to ever stay in a waterfront cabin with grandbabies on Bay Lake.
 

simon.fisher.2

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I would really like to see international destinations. Disneyland Paris would be incredible. I would strongly consider an additional (resale) purchase if I could go to Paris etc on points.
 

mj2vacation

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I love going to Disney World in Orlando. I used to be able to trade in to DVC via II, but not now that they are with RCI. I have a lot of friends who own DVC and the ones who really love Disney double down and get an annual pass also. They go three times a year and stay at DVC twice and a Marriott once. So they spend around $6-7 thousand dollars a year on Disney. That seems excessive to me, but they love it. My question to them is "What are you going to do with all of your points when the kids go to college and grow up?"

As for the future, I'd say it is limited. Other than Orlando, none of the DVC properties is on par with the best competitors in the other locations. Even in Orlando, the properties don't compare to Lakeshore Reserve for example. More importantly to me is their inability to cross sell the brands owned by Disney the parent company. They tried hard to cross brand with ABC and ESPN, biut neither seems to fit with the Disney theme park audiences.

I own and love Lakeshore Reserve, but the Villas at the Grand Floridian are the NICEST TS rooms I have ever seen. Animal Kingdom is beyond unique. Been to Four Seasons, HGVC, most Marriott's and a few Westins.

I own Ko'Olina, and Aulani is far more upscale.

Hilton Head, am with you.

Vero is a nice place, just no one knows where it is. We still love going there. The newly redone rooms are really nice.

SSR and a few others are lackluster. Then again, I don't look at Grande Vista and Harbour Lake and think WOW....
 

Rsauer3473

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I would really like to see international destinations. Disneyland Paris would be incredible. I would strongly consider an additional (resale) purchase if I could go to Paris etc on points.

If you buy from Disney, you can use points at all Disney international resorts. Resale contracts since 2011 do not allow this.
 

simon.fisher.2

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If you buy from Disney, you can use points at all Disney international resorts. Resale contracts since 2011 do not allow this.

True - It will be a very long time before I consider purchasing points directly from Disney however. Resale is the way to go for our family.

It would be nice if they had a resort to add to the dedicated DVC resorts so it is easier to use points and it is a better value than converting to a hotel room.
 
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