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HCC Breckenridge Lodge For Sale????

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Kagehitokiri

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good question.

maybe theyre selling and buying something else? ER has done it a number of times. if they got a deal on the property originally, that could be an incentive to do so.

or they might be trading down if they did not get a deal?

For more information, to arrange a private showing, or to request the full data sheet for this home please contact Jim Wilson
Phone : 970-333-1612

Days on Zillow: 11

were this property and OBX the only 2 worth ~$2MM, or was there a 3rd?
 
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vineyarder

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Sure looks like the same house; does anyone know if the address is the same?
 

tombo

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Since HCC owns all the properties outright, they can sell any or all locations for a profit and give the owners(themselves not the members) a big bonus. Or if they are in a financial bind they can sell the high dollar locations and replace them with lower priced alternatives. They can refinance existing locations taking the equity out of the resorts and leaving the club with a bigger debt load. They can do whatever they want and you as a "member" get no vote and have no veto power.

You have to "trust" HCC with your investment. So much for the proclaimed "transparency" of the books that the clubs are going to voluntarily exhibit to make members feel safe about their investment. Instead members find out that one of their highest dollar locations is for sale from an internet web site, not from a letter or even a courtesy e-mail from HCC to members. No poll or input from members offered even as an option before listing it for sale. HCC owns everything, and they will sell any location if and when they want, no matter what the members want. But just trust HCC to do what is right.

I know that my timeshare "deeds" might not guarantee me the world. I do know however that I will never be surprised to see my weeks listed for sale on the internet by the HOA without my consent( as long as I am paid up to date on my annual MF's). I know my resorts can't be sold without a vote of the owners(my deed makes me an owner). I know what I own and that I don't have to "trust" other people to decide how to invest my money or what vacation locations need to be sold or purchased for me.
 

Brian222golf

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I believe that the house is leased, so maybe the owners are selling it. That does not mean the lease will be terminated.
 
S

Steamboat Bill

This is indeed one of the FEW leased homes in the HCC collection. Yes, it is for sale and HCC will replace it with another home if it gets sold. Thus, HCC does not actually own this property.
 

tripTX

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reservations

I hope any sale wouldn't affect existing reservations. Planning a large family trip to the lodge was a big incentive for us in joining HCC. It was the first reservation we made -- a week there next summer. The whole extended family is excited about it.
 

tombo

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I kept hearing about all of the million dollar homes the clubs are purchasing. Now it ends up that some homes are leased! A lease is a financial obligation that doesn't end until the lease does, and it will never become an asset. The club will never own these homes and the lease can be terminated at the end of the lease period, or at any time with any outs the owners placed in the lease contract.

Tripx joined HCC with this SPECIFIC location in mind for this summer, made his first reservations here for his family for this summer, and it won't be available this summer if it sells? I am sure they told Tripx when he made his reservations that this is a leased property that probably won't be available for HCC members next summer. Don't worry Tripx, as the club cheerleaders here will tell you, just trust HCC. They will have a place for you even if it isn't where you reserved when you joined the club. Just trust them. They dangled this prime example of what HCC "buys" in front of you to get you to buy, now it is being taken away. On top of that HCC wasn't even buying it. Typical bait and switch tactics. However keep on trusting them to buy and lease things for the good of all members.

This would be a good time to get in on the 3 in 1 out option before this pyramid house of cards collapses. Hopefully they haven't fudged on that too!
 
S

Steamboat Bill

tombo: almost every DC leases a few properties (inclding Exclusive Resorts), but the majority of DC homes (90%) are owned by the DC.

HCC has always advised members and guests that this HCC property is leased. The sky is nto falling...give me a break.

Any post abot some conspiracy shows a complete ignorance about DCs.
 

tombo

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Tell Tripx how lucky he is that the Breckenridge location, that is one of the the main reasons he joined, won't ever be owned by HCC, and probably won't be leased by HCC for him to make his family trip there that he has reserved through HCC for this summer. Sure seems fair to you.

You made reservations at the Hard Rock where you are staying tonight. How would you like it if they cancelled saying that they had only leased the hotel from Planet Hollywood, and the lease ran out after you had already made plans? But they could put you and your kids up somehwere near there hopefully. Just trust them.
 

tombo

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By the way, for a club so open and forthcoming with this being a leased property, the first 3 posts in this thread wanted to know why HCC is selling it. HCC doesn't sell leased property, so they obviously didn'y know it was leased. Also Tripx didn't seem to know it wasn't an HCC owned property.

I notice how you like to compare HCC to a country club. I have belonged to numerous country clubs in my life, and not one of them ever leased the golf course. In fact most gave me stock when I joined which made me an owner of the course and facilities.
 
S

Steamboat Bill

Tell Tripx how lucky he is that the Breckenridge location, that is one of the the main reasons he joined, won't ever be owned by HCC, and probably won't be leased by HCC for him to make his family trip there that he has reserved through HCC for this summer. Sure seems fair to you.

You are speculating (without knowing all the facts) that the home will not be available for tripTX this sumer, yet the truth is HCC still has a current lease contract for his reservation time.

I beleive there are only 2 HCC properties out of 30 that are leased.

There are some locations that forbid DCs from buying a property and only allow leases (Brekenridge does not have a restriction).

It continues ot AMAZE me to read the doom and gloom posts and negative speculation about DCs from "non-members" and contrast that with the 99.999% positive praise from DC members.
 

Brian222golf

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Hey tombo,

You are clearly showing your ingnorance of the real estate business. In the secondary home market, people who are buying homes know they are obligated to the leases that are in place. I am positive that any weeks that are reserved by HCC, will be honored by the new home owners. That is how the secondary home market works.
 

tombo

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I am not sure about the lease for next summer, but neither are you. Almost all leases on homes have a clause allowing the owner to cancel the lease if he sells the property. Any owner knows the absence of that clause would prevent them from selling it to any buyer that wanted it to live in or use for personal use. Someone with a multi-million dollar home had a lawyer draw up the lease and I bet he can cancel the lease upon sale of the property.
 
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NYP

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In defense of HCC, much of this misinformation can be clarified if one reads the CEO letter from High Country Club which is available here:

http://www.highcountryclub.com/about/CEO_Letter.asp

HCC currently has 33 properties which means that 7 are leased. (read the CEO statement. He says that less than 25% of 32 homes are leased)
If you call them, they will clearly indicate which ones are leased and which are not and will clearly tell you when the lease expires. I am pretty sure of six of the leased properties. I believe that one the indicated home in Breckenridge, the Village Hall home in Beaver Creek (unfortunately the two nicest homes) The two in Playa del Carmen, The two in Tuscany and one other are leased (you can call or email them to check, they will not hide these facts from you) From what I remember, the Breckenridge lease was for at least two or three years. I strongly disagree with tombo, and on the contrary, if a DC were to lease a property, THEY would make sure that any buyer of the property during a sale would honor the lease. If you have owned any rental property or rented any rental property, a leasee would be an idiot to allow the sale of a home or apartment to cancel the lease that is in effect. In fact a leased property is much more difficult to sell than one that is vacant.
Many, but not all DC's lease some properties. They may do this to fill in acute demand or to test certain destinations before commiting to a purchase. Exclusive Resorts does this as does Quintess, Ultimate Resorts and others. As long as they keep it below 25% and the cost of a lease is less than what yearly dues multiplied by occupancy would generate. In the case of HCC, that number would be somewhere between $4000 and $6000 per month. The only problem is that Tanner and Haley went way above the 25% level and lease costs were above the yearly dues collected to cover them.
 

Kagehitokiri

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welcome to the forum NYP :)

T&H leased 67% of their properties, and also rented short term on top of that to make their guaranteed availability policy work.
 

Tedpilot

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Tombo said: "the first 3 posts in this thread wanted to know why HCC is selling it"

Hm, I started this thread and didn't say that HCC was selling it. I do know from my due diligence when I joined the club that this property had sold just before HCC started up. I assumed, yes assumed, that HCC bought it but cannot confirm that from the info I have. If I remember right the selling price was well below the current asking price.

The other leased properties mentioned by NYP check w/ what I know. Though I'm not sure that the penthouse unit in Playa is leased, the beachfront certainly is. I had heard that HCC bought the penthouse b/c the beachfront lease was only a year or two. They leased that property because the beachfront house they had being built there was damaged by a hurricane and thus backed out of the deal...who wouldn't?

I checked HCC's reservations and didn't see where the lodge was taken off of the books for the future. If you look at the BC Village Hall you'll see that the presumed owner has their weeks set aside well in advance, likely due to a lease clause....21 Feb-6 Mar 09 & 11-31 July 09. This could be scheduled maintenance down time too.

In any case, I am not concerned. If HCC owns the lodge they will sell w/ a lease contingency no doubt that will cover all current reservations. If they are leasing, I couldn't imagine that they'd be foolish enough not to have their basis covered. Lastly, if this property does go away I am sure they will replace it with a like-n-kind.
 

tombo

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Most if not all of the homes leased by DC's were built to sell, not to lease. In the current slow housing market leasing an empty property is preferable to letting it sit empty while paying the interest on the loan or even worse the whole note. However make no mistake, the goal of the owner is to sell and divest himself of the property. A smart owner will not lock himself into a lease that would cause him to miss a sale. People here act like HCC is in the driver's seat with regards to the lease. The owner decides to lease or not lease his property, and under what terms. The owner would be a poor businessman if they sign a long term, non -cancellable lease on a property they are trying to sell. Usually the lease will have an out that says within 30, 60, 90 days (etc) of the sale of the property, that the lease will be null and void.

HCC might have done a great job and locked the owners of the leased properties into long term, non-cancellable leases even though I doubt it. What shocks me is the trust here for someone you don't even know(HCC). No one has asked to see copies of leases on properties that are currently in the club? How long are the leases for? What are you paying to lease these properties? Can these leases be cancelled by either party and for what reasons? The answer is we knoww HCC is taking care of it. I am sure T&H owners would have felt the same way.

Everyone talks about how T and H leased a large amount of their properties and it was one of the leading factors in their demise. Why have none of the "members" have asked to have it stated in writing what percentage of properties can be leased by HCC? Bill said only 2 properties out of 30 are leased, and he is constantly stating facts. New "facts" are 7 leased out of 33. So now everyone is shooting for a percentage quoted below:
"As long as they keep it below 25% and the cost of a lease is less than what yearly dues multiplied by occupancy would generate. In the case of HCC, that number would be somewhere between $4000 and $6000 per month. The only problem is that Tanner and Haley went way above the 25% level and lease costs were above the yearly dues collected to cover them."

What is in writing preventing HCC from exceeding 25%, 35%, or even 100% of the properties being leased? Everyone here is trusting HCC and the other DC's to do what is right. Nothing needs to be in writing regarding debt loads(how much per member), percent of properties allowed to be leased, what per cent of the owned properties appraised value is the max that can be financed (100%, 40% etc). How about a maximum management fee or salary that can be charged by the "owners" of the club? Just the salespeople's statements and the CEO's goals and objectives seems to be adequate for most here.

Statements like this are amazing to me as a businessman:
"In any case, I am not concerned. If HCC owns the lodge they will sell w/ a lease contingency no doubt that will cover all current reservations. If they are leasing, I couldn't imagine that they'd be foolish enough not to have their basis covered. Lastly, if this property does go away I am sure they will replace it with a like-n-kind." It says I blindly trust them to do everything right for me and I require no accountability in writing or otherwise. How about if they replace Breckinridge with nothing in the area, or a much lesser property? But we trust them,they wouldn't do that. No business would ever get greedy and Bankrupt the business. A situation like that has never happened! Oops, we forgot T&H.

Another quote on why they lease:
"Many, but not all DC's lease some properties. They may do this to fill in acute demand or to test certain destinations before commiting to a purchase. "
DC"s lease mainly because it is much cheaper than purchasing in the short run. It allows them to keep much more of your membership fees for themselves as profit and operating expenses since the lease doesn't require a down payment or large mtge notes like a mortgage does. They also lease to be able to show potential members at the sales presentation many more vacation destinations than they can afford to own. If a lot of leases run out without obtaining new leases, you will end up with a lot more members than available weeks to use.You also might no longer have availability in many areas you used to because the leases ran out and there were no comparable properties available to lease in the area. The worst thing is that the more of the DC's capital that is spent on leases, the less capital is available to actually purchase properties. You could end up in a few years as a member of a leasing company.

Of course all of the above is ridiculous because you "TRUST" DC"s, and their salespeople and their CEOs. You don't need anything in writing, you trust this smart business model. The CEO's are brilliant businessmen like Donald Trump. Well Donald Trump left many investors in his Atlantic City real estate venture broke after he filed bankruptcy a few years ago, and they had contracts in writing. Keep buying, keep blindly trusting, and if these DC"s go bankrupt you will have no one to blame but yourself.
 

pwrshift

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Why would you be so defensive of HCC on your first post, which I found quite informative btw? Are you in the DC business or just a member?

In defense of HCC, much of this misinformation can be clarified if one reads the CEO letter from High Country Club which is available here:

http://www.highcountryclub.com/about/CEO_Letter.asp

HCC currently has 33 properties which means that 7 are leased. (read the CEO statement. He says that less than 25% of 32 homes are leased)
If you call them, they will clearly indicate which ones are leased and which are not and will clearly tell you when the lease expires. I am pretty sure of six of the leased properties. I believe that one the indicated home in Breckenridge, the Village Hall home in Beaver Creek (unfortunately the two nicest homes) The two in Playa del Carmen, The two in Tuscany and one other are leased (you can call or email them to check, they will not hide these facts from you) From what I remember, the Breckenridge lease was for at least two or three years. I strongly disagree with tombo, and on the contrary, if a DC were to lease a property, THEY would make sure that any buyer of the property during a sale would honor the lease. If you have owned any rental property or rented any rental property, a leasee would be an idiot to allow the sale of a home or apartment to cancel the lease that is in effect. In fact a leased property is much more difficult to sell than one that is vacant.
Many, but not all DC's lease some properties. They may do this to fill in acute demand or to test certain destinations before commiting to a purchase. Exclusive Resorts does this as does Quintess, Ultimate Resorts and others. As long as they keep it below 25% and the cost of a lease is less than what yearly dues multiplied by occupancy would generate. In the case of HCC, that number would be somewhere between $4000 and $6000 per month. The only problem is that Tanner and Haley went way above the 25% level and lease costs were above the yearly dues collected to cover them.
 

Bourne

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Of course all of the above is ridiculous because you "TRUST" DC"s, and their salespeople and their CEOs. You don't need anything in writing, you trust this smart business model. The CEO's are brilliant businessmen like Donald Trump. Well Donald Trump left many investors in his Atlantic City real estate venture broke after he filed bankruptcy a few years ago, and they had contracts in writing. Keep buying, keep blindly trusting, and if these DC"s go bankrupt you will have no one to blame but yourself.

Here is another little peice of info.

ER sold ALL properties at Rosemary Beach location. That option as a location does NOT EXIST anymore.

ER's New York properties at Trump are LEASES.

1. Bill's info is dated but correct. At one time, HCC did have 2 leased properties. Him an I joined within weeks and saw the same info in documents during due diligence. Now they are higher than before as the number of properties have increased. Then again, remember that when HCC started, their average cost per property was 600K. They moved it up to 850K but are actually buying in the 1MM+ range now to compete with competition.

2. HCC or any other DC will not allow a reservation to be made beyond it's lease period for a leased property. If, due to market conditions, it cannot honor the reservation, it would replace the property with a comparable one to honor those reservations.
Before you start comparing this anology with T&H, remember that HCC is moving it's lease cost from one property to another. T&H promised everyone the moon i.e. Christmas week at Aspen. If it is BOOKED, we will put you up at a comparable property.Keyword BOOKED.


I'll say it once and once only...

A typical DC membership is an agreement to use a set of properties. The membership does not include OWNERSHIP. The owner/investors can choose to buy, sell or lease properties as they wish to do so. They are not obligated to ask permission, conduct polls etc. If you like the setup, buy into it. Don't like it, take your money and vacation usage elsewhere.

Bought into it and don't like it. Walk away. Unlike timeshares, it is a market driven environment. The developers responsibility does not end after selling 52 weeks. A drop in quality or locations can mean that new members will not join and old one's would be waiting to get out resulting in the demise of the club. Bottomline is, unlike timeshares, DC's have an incentive to deviver a consistent quality product. Their business model depends on it.
 
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tombo

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Bourne you said:
"Bill's info is dated but correct. At one time, HCC did have 2 leased properties. Him an I joined within weeks and saw the same info in documents during due diligence." Using his information which was correct at the time his quote:"there are only 2 HCC properties out of 30 that are leased. " That means when you bought 28 were owned and 2 were leased.

Fast forward to today and Pwrshift's correct facts. Pwrshift's quote:"HCC currently has 32 properties which means that 7 are leased. (read the CEO statement. He says that less than 25% of 32 homes are leased)". Using this up to date information shows that HCC now owns 25 locations while it leases 7 locations for a total of 32.

This is bad news for "members". Using your own facts, HCC has grown from 30 locations when Bourne and Bill joined to 32 locations today. However the number of properties leased has more than tripled (from 2 leased when you joined to 7 leased today) while the number of properties owned has decreased from 28 when you joined to only 25 owned today. If they continue this trend there should be 40 properties available soon with 18 being leased and 22 owned. However the above facts are irrelevant to some as everyone must trust blindly without actually delving into the facts and asking questions.


I feel your quote is one the best reasons to not join that I have read. Your quote:
"A typical DC membership is an agreement to use a set of properties. The membership does not include OWNERSHIP. The owner/investors can choose to buy, sell or lease properties as they wish to do so. They are not obligated to ask permission, conduct polls etc. If you like the setup, buy into it. Don't like it, take your money and vacation usage elsewhere."

You the members supply 100% of the money the owner uses to buy property for himself, the owner. The owner can, with what used to be your money, buy, sell, or lease properties as he wishes.The owner now has no obligation to ask your permission, or conduct polls, or have a shareholders meeting on how to spend the money you invested because your investment has now turned into his money. You will never own anything, and no matter what direction the club takes you will have to pay high annual fees to rent the property from the owner that you bought for him. He can charge anything he wants for a salary or management fees as he is totally in charge of his properties and his club. He can lease at much or as little as he wants, buy or sell when and where he wants. Best of all for the owner, all of this was funded by people that have no authority over anything he does in the future with what was their hard earned money.

I will take my money and vacation usage elsewhere where I can decide how my money is spent. I will also try to warn people not to invest a lot of hard earned money in something that they have no input or ownership in. If you trust the DC's blindly and follow like a lamb to the slaughter, remember the words of Jim Jones in Guyana as you pay to join. Drink the Kool-aid children, drink the Kool-aid.
 
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vivalour

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at what point do ad hominem attacks start violating TUG TOS?

:rolleyes:

I guess this isn't the Oxford Debating Union.... Maybe vineyarder will provide TUG moderators with copies of Miss Manners' Guide to Etiquette (see the previous thread) to elevate the level of discourse. :(
 

Tedpilot

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This just in from HCC, directly quoted in an email to me regarding the inquiry:

"Yes, the owner of the house is trying to sell. This is one of our original homes and we do not own it. However, there is a provison on the purchase that our remaining 4 years on the least be fulfilled. So this shouldn’t affect our Members at this time."

TripTX - You should be good to go. It is a great place and you'll enjoy teh serenity there!

Tombo - I'm not sure what your constructive input is BTW? What is it? Debate? Apparently we're from two different schools of thought on how to debate. In any case, leased property for use is not an uncommon facet of travel entities. If it is a sincere concern of yours vs poking at what you consider a fallacy, I sugegst you cancel most all of your hotel reservations and any flights that you have on a major airline...never know, leasors may want their hotels and aircraft back ASAP and leave you high and dry. So to say, drive your car and pack a tent to be sure.

Ted

PS - It is not every day that I throw out a red herring analogy but today something smelled like fish.
 
S

Steamboat Bill

I beleive there are only 2 HCC properties out of 30 that are leased.

Tombo:
If you looked at my above quoted post, it was made on Saturday night at 11:19pm after all day at Universal Studios and an evening pizza pool party (which I organized for 200 people) at the Hard Rock Hotel (and several strong rum drinks).

I was on a friend's laptop on the wireless Internet and I checked my e-mail and a few web sites including TUG. I was checking new posts as I just had an interesting conversation with a Quintess member and I told him about TUG and invited him to our forum.

When I joined HCC, there were only 2 leased properties. Quite honestly, I have not kept a detailed eye on which new properties are leased or owned. I just enjoy my trips!

I am even MORE amazed than ever at the tremendous MISINFORMATION posted on this forum by non-DC members. Why do so many non-DC members want to rain on our parade?
 
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