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Tiered Maint fees [Presidential Villas at Plantation Resort, Surfside Beach SC]

JPD

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Just received a newsletter from my resort. The letter went on to say that as a result of foreclosures and owners who are way behind in paying their maintenance fee's, they are thinking of having a tiered fee system.

I owned at this resort for almost 15 years, maintenance fee's from what I know were the same for all owner's, now the resort wants to charge more owner's who have let's say RED weeks, and tiered down for other weeks. The resort say's owner's who have summer weeks can use all the amenities, while colder weeks can't.

Now my thinking is, when I purchased my red week, I did pay more then those who purchased other months. I don't feel we should be panelized because of owner's not paying maintenance fee's. Has anyone else gone through this type of tiered fee system at their resort? Don't remember seeing this on Tug. :shrug:
 

tschwa2

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If lowering the MF's for off season weeks gets new or keeps the off season week owners, then it will ultimately keep your MF's down. Would you rather have $0 coming in for those weeks or 85% (or whatever is being proposed). It still may not be enough. Really in very seasonal resorts 50% of the high week MF's may keep owners but probably wouldn't entice new owners.

Not all states allowed tiered MF's.
 

K2Quick

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. . . now the resort wants to charge more owner's who have let's say RED weeks, and tiered down for other weeks. The resort say's owner's who have summer weeks can use all the amenities, while colder weeks can't.

It's not just that off-season owners can't use the common area amenities, they probably aren't contributing nearly as much to wear and tear inside the units as the high-season owners are because the occupancy rate is comparatively much lower. For example visit a timeshare in Park City in late October or in early May. Someone is paying maintenance fees on every unit in the resort, but the place will be maybe 20% occupied.

The owners of the off-season weeks deserve a break on maintenance fees and, if they don't, it will likely result in the failure of the system for all owners (because a large number of off-season owners will just skip out on their MF obligations leaving everyone else to pick up the bill).
 

ronparise

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Just received a newsletter from my resort. The letter went on to say that as a result of foreclosures and owners who are way behind in paying their maintenance fee's, they are thinking of having a tiered fee system.

I owned at this resort for almost 15 years, maintenance fee's from what I know were the same for all owner's, now the resort wants to charge more owner's who have let's say RED weeks, and tiered down for other weeks. The resort say's owner's who have summer weeks can use all the amenities, while colder weeks can't.

Now my thinking is, when I purchased my red week, I did pay more then those who purchased other months. I don't feel we should be panelized because of owner's not paying maintenance fee's. Has anyone else gone through this type of tiered fee system at their resort? Don't remember seeing this on Tug. :shrug:

I havent seen any discussion on TUG about resorts that have a tiered schedule for fees, but there has been a lot of discussion about how the blue week owners are essentially subsidizing the red week owners. . Blue week owners walking away from their ownerships and the mf are a big problem at a lot of resorts. I own a few where the bad debt is approaching 20%, which makes my mf about 25% more than it should be.

As a red week owner myself, I feel your pain, but a tiered system might help control the walk aways and serve to put a lid on maintenance fee increases.
 

SMHarman

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Did I read that Starwood on one of their Ski properties sold each Red (Plat Plus) week with an attached Blue (Gold/Silver) week, giving you two weeks use one Plat, one Mud and of course double the MF but it keeps the Mud weeks out of bad debt and with the points system instead of using that mud week you could use it to extend the ski stay or for a shorter summer stay or something else.
 

ronparise

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Did I read that Starwood on one of their Ski properties sold each Red (Plat Plus) week with an attached Blue (Gold/Silver) week, giving you two weeks use one Plat, one Mud and of course double the MF but it keeps the Mud weeks out of bad debt and with the points system instead of using that mud week you could use it to extend the ski stay or for a shorter summer stay or something else.

I think thats an excellent idea. But how many of the red week owners are going to accept this.

perhaps the board can just raise the fees for everyone enough to cover the bad debt, then give the red week owners the option of receiving a free blue week usage
 

presley

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Just received a newsletter from my resort. The letter went on to say that as a result of foreclosures and owners who are way behind in paying their maintenance fee's, they are thinking of having a tiered fee system.

I owned at this resort for almost 15 years, maintenance fee's from what I know were the same for all owner's, now the resort wants to charge more owner's who have let's say RED weeks, and tiered down for other weeks. The resort say's owner's who have summer weeks can use all the amenities, while colder weeks can't.

Now my thinking is, when I purchased my red week, I did pay more then those who purchased other months. I don't feel we should be panelized because of owner's not paying maintenance fee's. Has anyone else gone through this type of tiered fee system at their resort? Don't remember seeing this on Tug. :shrug:

I would hope that if they go ahead and implement this, that you and other owners would be "grandfathered" in a way to not change your original agreement. Should they want to start this on all future owners, I think it is a viable idea. An alternative would be for them to charge a resort fee during the high system to anyone staying there.

I would be a very unhappy owner if I agreed to one thing 15 years ago and they decided to punish me because of other people. If I were buying today and they told me my MFs were going to be higher for a red week, that would be my choice to decide if it is worth it or not.
 

PamMo

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+1 for what Presley said.
 

ronparise

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I would hope that if they go ahead and implement this, that you and other owners would be "grandfathered" in a way to not change your original agreement. Should they want to start this on all future owners, I think it is a viable idea. An alternative would be for them to charge a resort fee during the high system to anyone staying there.

I would be a very unhappy owner if I agreed to one thing 15 years ago and they decided to punish me because of other people. If I were buying today and they told me my MFs were going to be higher for a red week, that would be my choice to decide if it is worth it or not.

Its not a punishment...Its a solution to a problem.

If there are 52 weeks in the year and only 30 are paying their fees. 100% of the expenses are being shouldered by just 60% of the owners.

My point is that the red week owners in my hypothetical are already paying more than they agreed to when the bought in. A tiered arrangement will bring their fees down by getting at least something out of the blue weeks.

and yes; as big of a problem as blue week owners walking away is....It will be a much bigger problem when the redweek owners decide its just not worth it.
 

csxjohn

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This sounds like fixing a major wound with a band-aid.

The red weeks will pay more and the other weeks will pay less and they will still be abandoned. I seriously doubt that a small reduction in the fees paid by off week owners will entice them stay on a sinking ship.

What I see happening is more and more off week owners default and the paying owners will have to make up the difference.
 

ronparise

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This sounds like fixing a major wound with a band-aid.

The red weeks will pay more and the other weeks will pay less and they will still be abandoned. I seriously doubt that a small reduction in the fees paid by off week owners will entice them stay on a sinking ship.

What I see happening is more and more off week owners default and the paying owners will have to make up the difference.

So Ill take my suggestion to the next level. The hoa should make an effort to take back all the blue and white weeks, Then take the budget and divide by the number red week intervals. That will be the new mf for red week owners. Then any redweek owner can reserve a blue/white week or two or three as they see fit. the rental fee can be what they think these weeks are worth
 

twinmommy19

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I wonder why more resorts don't implement a bonus time program like some of the fractional resorts have. I bet the resorts that have this experience less delinquency. Think about it this way - what do you think the initial motivation was for anyone who bought a mud season park city week? Do you think that buyer really wanted to go to a ski resort at a time when everything was closed? Of course not - like everyone else those buyers must have been suckered by the developer punch line that they would be able to trade into peak season. Doesn't a policy that allows owners to reserve last minute bonus time during all seasons at a very low rate benefit everyone? This at least would make ownership of off weeks attractive for local families.
 

theo

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Just a thought...

Not sure how / why this subject is an appropriate topic for the "Exchanging" forum, but nonetheless...

The question that immediately comes to my mind is whether any resort and / or HOA actually has the legal standing, right or authority to unilaterally adopt a brand new, unprecedented, "tiered" system for imposing different maintenance fees upon different owners if such an option was not initially and very clearly specified and overtly authorized within the original, governing CC&R documents.

I'm not saying that I claim to definitively know that answer, but I am certainly saying that I for one would easily (and gladly) present a strong case asserting that, in the absence of any specifically authorizing CC&R documentation, the answer to that question is a resounding and unequivocal NO!.
 
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ronparise

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Not sure how / why this subject is an appropriate topic for the "Exchanging" forum, but nonetheless...

The question that immediately comes to my mind is whether any resort and / or HOA actually has the legal standing, right or authority to unilaterally adopt a brand new, unprecedented, "tiered" system for imposing different maintenance fees upon different owners if such an option was not initially and very clearly specified and overtly authorized within the original, governing CC&R documents.

I'm not saying that I claim to definitively know that answer, but I am certainly saying that I for one would easily (and gladly) present a strong case asserting that, in the absence of any specifically authorizing CC&R documentation, the answer to that question is a resounding and unequivocal NO!.

I think theo is right...he usually is

So I dont think many resorts can do this directly....They will have to come in through the back door ...so to speak...be creative.
 

DeniseM

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This has nothing to do with exchanging - what is the name of the resort?
 

glenmore

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Myrtle Beach -- wants to change maintenance fees based on season

Just received a newsletter from Plantation Resort which stated in part:

" To reduce defaults and uncollectible dues in your HOA . . . Beginning in 2015 we are proposing to change portions of the maintenance fee from a fixed amount paid by every owner in the HOA to a variable fee structure based on the type of week each owner purchased. The new new fee will better reflect factors such as seasonality, amenities available during your season, the cost to operate these amenities and other factors."

Everyone who purchases a timeshare knows what their maintenance fees will be. Has anyone else been told their maintenance fees are based on season?
 

rickandcindy23

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Some Colorado resorts are set up to allow for tiered MF's, and in my opinion, a resort in Colorado should have a drastic difference in fees between blue, red summer, and red ski. Val Chatelle is $480, $500, $540. Should be more like $400, $500 and $700, in my opinion. Skiers use more heat, use the fireplace more because the weather is colder, and they pack people into the units. More wear and tear in general.

But some resorts are trying to change the bylaws and get rid of the tiered fees.

It really has to be a vote, a super-majority, for a change like this. So unless your bylaws provide this as a possibility, doubtful they can actually do it.
 

JudyH

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I got the same letter, we must have the same resort. I would think the owners would have to vote a bylaw change, it can't just be imposed by the Board.
 

STEVIE

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I haven't received a letter like this, but I think it is fair. We own a Mud week and bought the week before we really understood how Timesharing worked. The Mud week was bought from the developer, so yes oooch! So I do think those who were smarter than us at the time and bought prime weeks should pay more. They are able to enjoy the amenities offered during prime time that are not offered during our week. Also because we own an undesired week, we do not receive as many TPU's from RCI if we choose to trade. I try not to think about this often, because it reminds me I bought before I really understood the process.
Sue
 

vckempson

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I'm not saying that I claim to definitively know that answer, but I am certainly saying that I for one would easily (and gladly) present a strong case asserting that, in the absence of any specifically authorizing CC&R documentation, the answer to that question is a resounding and unequivocal NO!.

What is CC&R documentation?

I own at Pres Villas and believe that it's still a developer controlled board. Any one know if that's accurate? If the spread wasn't too terribly big, I wouldn't object to a tiered system. But for people who paid a big retail premium for red weeks, ( I bought resale), they have a right to be pretty upset at the thought of this.

BTW, I haven't received anything in the mail yet. Maybe I need to take a walk to the mailbox :doh:
 

twinmommy19

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I don't think the tiered fee structure will help delinquency much unless it's drastic and if subject to a vote, i dont see how that would be approved. Plantation Resort doesn't have a high maintenance fee to begin with. Most of the weeks float in red season either summer or prime golf (which is less desirable than prime summer but Easter week and May still get a decent amount of trading power and the amenities for the most part are all open. It's not like a mud season in Colorado. You can go to the beach in Arpil, May, October, etc.) So They are mainly taking about the small blue season which floats in the colder months like January and February.

Anyone who purchased from the developer obviously did so because they liked the resort. Bonus time during the other seasons would be a great suggestion as I suggested, and yes there is availability as it is a floating system. Would July 4th be available for bonus time, no. But end of summer and plenty of other weeks when the pools and beach could be enjoyed have vacancy. That's a much better way to solve this problem - make it more attractive to be an owner.
 

twinmommy19

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Another idea - open up the entire floating ranges across all seasons within 60 or 90 days of check in for all owners. This would not impact the peak owners because they would still have plenty of advance time to reserve their desired weeks. Let owners pay their fees in advance for the following year which Plantation Resort already does anyway. If you own a winter week for 2015 and you pay your maintenance in advance, I'd have no problem as a summer owner with you using your week to confirm August 2014 if there was availability within 60 or 90 days. This perk would also be a selling point for the resort to sell more off season weeks.
 
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