My renter deposited my week into his [BIL's] II account??

SMHarman said:

Buy you have payment in full.

Contract law
1. Offer / invitation to treat.
Owner lists on a site.
2. Acceptance.
Contract is signed with renter
3. Consideration
Payment per the contract is made.

Now if the named person on that week choses to deposit it, and interval accepts that deposit how is that theft. It's a new contract separate from the initial contract.

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If the offer is specific to a particular resort and week, then any other use would violate the agreement.

Ken555 said:

If the offer is specific to a particular resort and week, then any other use would violate the agreement.

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Lawyer could have a field day but the renter used that particular week / resort as a deposit on a new contract with a different party.

What they get in return is no party of the original contract. That contract was honored by both sides.

SMHarman said:

Lawyer could have a field day but the renter used that particular week / resort as a deposit on a new contract with a different party.

What they get in return is no party of the original contract. That contract was honored by both sides.

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The MVW and II governing docs make it explicitly clear that no one but the owner has the right to perform actions in owner accounts with in-good-standing Weeks, unless the owner gives those companies the rights to do so (such as when an owner makes a reservation or an exchange deposit, etc.) Even if what appears to have happened here wouldn't be a technical violation of the rental contract between the owner and his renter (which is questionable on the face of it,) it would most definitely be a violation of the owner protections that are contractually-bestowed by both MVW and II.

I don't know how owner rentals work within your owned system but within MVW's the owner's name remains on the reservation, the renter's name is added by the owner as a guest, and control of/responsibility for the reservation remains with the owner through the check-out day. (Added just in case things are done differently ...)

SueDonJ said:

Here's another. Say you've rented your owned 1BR unit for a mid-demand resort/period for $1200. Somehow your renter manages to deposit your rented interval into his/her or another II account and exchange it for a 2BR unit at a high-demand resort/period, having paid only the original rental fee and additional minimal up-charge to II for what could be a $3,000+ rental on the established market.

Effectively your renter has managed without your knowledge or consent to short-change anyone on the established rental market, including you, who owns the 2BR interval that the renter ultimately obtained. And, the possibility exists that if your accounts are reviewed then II could conceivably suspend your account because you have been compensated by a renter for what is an II interval (and so is not permitted by II rules to be rented.)

There are all kinds of ramifications that people aren't looking at here.

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DeniseM and SueDonJ - Thank you for explaining the pitfalls, I was just looking at the fact the "owner" got his money and really shouldn't care. For the most part I still think that, but agree totally that there should be a verification before II deposits it. Clearly, owners must be protected against someone stealing their reservation.

Update

I spoke with Mark @ II today for a while. Here's some info about our conversation.

As we all (or most of us) know, this absolutely should not have happened. Mark will be investigating the entire process of how this deposit was confirmed and completed. MY week was deposited into the II account of a 3rd person, presumably the "brother-in-law". The reason I put that in quotes is because this person appears to be a naughty II member with their previous activities. It is unclear if the person I dealt with was providing real name, etc. Lets just say that when the deposit was reviewed, the name of the II member was a known name, not for good reasons.

Anyway, the II deposit process requests information from Marriott. Marriott's system is supposed to confirm owner and reservation details, then confirm or reject with II. It seems that system failed miserably. Mark will investigate the whole process, including the Marriott side. I plan to wait for Mark's results before contacting Marriott. But, there was concern that if this happened, could there be something wrong with the confirmation/validation process?

Again, Mark is reviewing what happened and will get back to me, but possibly not for a few weeks.

One of my big questions was, am I in any way tied to the deposit, which means I could somehow be liable for the future booking. Mark told me that I am not associated to it at all, since it is in somebody else's account.

LUVourMarriotts said:

I spoke with Mark @ II today for a while. Here's some info about our conversation.

As we all (or most of us) know, this absolutely should not have happened. Mark will be investigating the entire process of how this deposit was confirmed and completed. MY week was deposited into the II account of a 3rd person, presumably the "brother-in-law". The reason I put that in quotes is because this person appears to be a naughty II member with their previous activities. It is unclear if the person I dealt with was providing real name, etc. Lets just say that when the deposit was reviewed, the name of the II member was a known name, not for good reasons.

Anyway, the II deposit process requests information from Marriott. Marriott's system is supposed to confirm owner and reservation details, then confirm or reject with II. It seems that system failed miserably. Mark will investigate the whole process, including the Marriott side. I plan to wait for Mark's results before contacting Marriott. But, there was concern that if this happened, could there be something wrong with the confirmation/validation process?

Again, Mark is reviewing what happened and will get back to me, but possibly not for a few weeks.

One of my big questions was, am I in any way tied to the deposit, which means I could somehow be liable for the future booking. Mark told me that I am not associated to it at all, since it is in somebody else's account.

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Brady, I'm glad you have someone working for you who appears to understand the seriousness of your situation and is doing what should be done to ensure that corrections are made and that you are protected. Continued good luck that you'll be satisfied with the final resolution whatever it may be. Thank you for updating the thread.

SMHarman said:

Lawyer could have a field day but the renter used that particular week / resort as a deposit on a new contract with a different party.

What they get in return is no party of the original contract. That contract was honored by both sides.

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Once again, if the agreed upon use of the specific week and resort was part of the agreement, then I can't see any grey in this issue. Depositing the week into an exchange company is not a standard use for a rental, and I doubt it was a specifically granted right along with the right to use the week at the resort, etc.

Ken555 said:

Once again, if the agreed upon use of the specific week and resort was part of the agreement, then I can't see any grey in this issue. Depositing the week into an exchange company is not a standard use for a rental, and I doubt it was a specifically granted right along with the right to use the week at the resort, etc.

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Once again (though i note the twist above)

Contract between week owner and renter resulted in the use of the specific week and unit as a deposit to II.

SMHarman said:

Once again (though i note the twist above)

Contract between week owner and renter resulted in the use of the specific week and unit as a deposit to II.

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The "twist" as you say is the same point I've been making in my earlier posts on this thread. It's all about the intended and agreed upon use of the week. I've never heard of a renter having the right to deposit their rented week in an exchange company, though I imagine it's technically possible if agreed upon at time of rental. Your point seems to be that the renter has the right to use the week in any way they want, which I do not agree.

SMHarman said:

Once again (though i note the twist above)

Contract between week owner and renter resulted in the use of the specific week and unit as a deposit to II.

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But you're the one that's extending the "usage" of the rented reservation to include a deposit to II of the Week used to make the reservation. Remember, rental contracts specify a reservation of a certain unit size/view at a certain resort for a certain time period; they don't specify usage of a Week in whatever incantation the owner would be allowed. Using the Week in any manner other than what's specifically stated in the rental contract would not at all constitute conforming to the rental contract.

LUVourMarriotts said:

I spoke with Mark @ II today for a while. Here's some info about our conversation.

As we all (or most of us) know, this absolutely should not have happened.

. . .

One of my big questions was, am I in any way tied to the deposit, which means I could somehow be liable for the future booking. Mark told me that I am not associated to it at all, since it is in somebody else's account.

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Finding out about Mark has been the biggest piece of helpful information I have found by reading through this thread. I rarely venture out of the Marriott forum and didn't know about this fortunate feature of TUG.

I've been waiting to see how II responded to Brady and II's response is playing out much the way I hoped it would. There is the little twist of surprise that the BIL may be a naughty II member (reality show drama ) and MVC's check system failed. I'm eagerly waiting for the next episode.

This is truly a live and learn situation for us all to consider when renting.

We have more timeshare weeks than we use so I dabble in renting. Here's the first bit from the contract I use:

"TIMESHARE USE AGREEMENT


AGREEMENT dated this DATE by and between Owner and the Resort Guest

1. Owner(s)/Agent of unit ("Owner"):

2. Resort Guest(s) in unit ("Guest"):

Name:
Address:

E-mail address:

3. Unit subject to Agreement ("Unit"):

Resort Name & Address:

4. Term of use ("Term"):
Starts at: Resort checkin on
Ends at: Resort checkout on

5. Fee for term:
Paid in full at time of Agreement."

I use this directly for those who seem to think being paid for a rental then gives the renter carte blanche over the week. I want to know who's renting, how many people they plan to put in the room and if the age of the renter (and occupant's) is something I'm comfortable with. With a week deposited out of my control I could unwittingly be renting to the very type of renter I would not rent to. Not only that, but I would be renting an II exchange which is a BIG no-no with II. If this tidbit has been brought up in the thread I've missed it.

Another tidbit that I haven't seen addressed is the fact that TIME IS MONEY. When I rent I'm using my time to make reservation, run ad, answer emails, call MVC to add renter, etc. Once I've fulfilled my obligation to a contract that is the portion of my time the renter has bought. If they then need more of my time for special concessions it is only reasonable that there should be additional fees. Honestly, the thought of checking and rechecking flex change options for a renter is nauseating. Can you imagine how much time that could eat up with phone calls and emails? All for someone you don't have any real personal connection to and was a bit of a nuisance from the start.

While I can't remember having this happen yet with my rentals I have often considered what I would do. Among several options my first would be to tell the renter if they want their money back they need to find me another renter within my parameters. If I renewed my ad and found the new renter the emergency/hardship of the situation would determine whether I charged a penalty on the return of first rent.

LUVourMarriotts said:

MY week was deposited into the II account of a 3rd person, presumably the "brother-in-law". The reason I put that in quotes is because this person appears to be a naughty II member with their previous activities. It is unclear if the person I dealt with was providing real name, etc. Lets just say that when the deposit was reviewed, the name of the II member was a known name, not for good reasons.

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In plain speak:


My guess - the renter sold the reservation to the owner of the II Acct. who plans to use it for rentals.

DeniseM said:

In plain speak:

-The "so called BIL" is probably not even related to the renter.

-The owner of this II Acct. has previous violations on his Acct. - this is usually for renting exchanges.

-The II Rep. knows who the II Acct. holder is, because of past violations.​

My guess - the renter sold the reservation to the owner of the II Acct. who plans to use it for rentals.

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And if that's the case, the plain speech version of the conversation between the renter and the owner would have sounded something like "So, since I've decided not to use the reservation I rented from you I'm going to try and sell it to someone else (and maybe even they will resell/rent it out after that). That's okay with you, right?"

Uhhh. No

DeniseM said:

My guess - the renter sold the reservation to the owner of the II Acct. who plans to use it for rentals.

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Or they're actually the same person.

A second security breach has occurred in another TUGger's MVW account: My potential renter just changed my Marriott reservation! What is going on???

Full disclosure, I've posted this in that thread:

SueDonJ said:

... I hope that TUGgers understand but I have now called MVW's attention to this and the other thread detailing the other security breach. An an owner I am genuinely spitting mad that these situations have occurred and I believe that MVW owes all of us owners an explanation.

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dioxide45 said:

Is it possible that the unit/week isn't even confirmed yet? Someone can go to the II website or even call and input or give the reservation details, but it can take a few days for Marriott to actually confirm the deposit. It is still possible for Marriott to report back to II that the week isn't confirmed and the person still has an un-deposited week.

If confirmed, I do find this to be a very odd situation. Not sure I would rock the boat, but I would be concerned what someone could do with just a reservation number and a name.

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This is exactly what I was thinking. Ditto to everything Dioxide says.

Not possible. If a deposit is not yet confirmed then the reservation remains with Marriott. It doesn't go from Marriott to II unless they confirm it. The OP said in his original post that MVC confirmed that the reservation is gone to II. That step just can't happen unless someone confirms it.

It would be different if it was II that was saying it was deposited but it still showed up on marriott.com. Instead the deposit notification came from MVC.

Saintsfanfl said:

Not possible. If a deposit is not yet confirmed then the reservation remains with Marriott. It doesn't go from Marriott to II unless they confirm it. The OP said in his original post that MVC confirmed that the reservation is gone to II. That step just can't happen unless someone confirms it.

It would be different if it was II that was saying it was deposited but it still showed up on marriott.com. Instead the deposit notification came from MVC.

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I tend to agree. I amended my original thoughts and arrived at a similar conclusion in post #87.

II's investigation results

I received an email from Mark @ II today. He informed me what we assumed all along. This was actually a Marriott mistake. The mistake is the same mistake that occurred in another TUG thread. Marriott saw the renters name on the reservation, saw the same name on the II account, and allowed the deposit to be made. Per Mark, Marriott agreed that they made a mistake and this should not have happened.

So, I am good with that. Especially finding out a while ago that I have no relation at all to the deposit, so nothing could come back on me. But, I would like to reach out to Marriott to make sure that they understand there is obviously an issue. As I said, there is another thread where this same thing occurred. Someone or something is wrong with the process, and for all owners safety, Marriott needs to fix this.

I am confused:

I thought it was deposited in the brother-in-law's II Acct. A brother-in-law would not have the same name.

Also - what about the thing they told you about this person having previous infractions?

DeniseM said:

I am confused:

I thought it was deposited in the brother-in-law's II Acct. A brother-in-law would not have the same name.

Also - what about the thing they told you about this person having previous infractions?

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I know a couple of families where they are all say Joe Blogs but go by their middle name.

Joe David Blogs
Joe Robert Blogs etc

Would kinda have the same name then.

SMHarman said:

I know a couple of families where they are all say Joe Blogs but go by their middle name.

Joe David Blogs
Joe Robert Blogs etc

Would kinda have the same name then.

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The OP is male, it would be nearly impossible (though not completely impossible in today's world) that the BIL has the same last name. It would either be their wife's husband, thus a different last name, or their sisters husband, again with a different last name. It doesn't seem that the OP ever changed the guests name on the reservation to that of the BIL, unless the renter called an added it before having it deposited in the BIL's II account.

SMHarman said:

I know a couple of families where they are all say Joe Blogs but go by their middle name.

Joe David Blogs
Joe Robert Blogs etc

Would kinda have the same name then.

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so the renter has an in law with the same name as him?

LUVourMarriotts said:

I received an email from Mark @ II today. He informed me what we assumed all along. This was actually a Marriott mistake. The mistake is the same mistake that occurred in another TUG thread. Marriott saw the renters name on the reservation, saw the same name on the II account, and allowed the deposit to be made. Per Mark, Marriott agreed that they made a mistake and this should not have happened.

So, I am good with that. Especially finding out a while ago that I have no relation at all to the deposit, so nothing could come back on me. But, I would like to reach out to Marriott to make sure that they understand there is obviously an issue. As I said, there is another thread where this same thing occurred. Someone or something is wrong with the process, and for all owners safety, Marriott needs to fix this.

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About what's bolded, it's a VERY good idea for you to involve MVW in this mess. Again, I'd start with Customer Care - MVW / Contact Us. I also would ask them to coordinate with II so that together they can figure out and tell you exactly what happened with your Week, in your accounts as well as anybody else's.

Thanks for the update; continued good luck!

rapmarks said:

so the renter has an in law with the same name as him?

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I think it is more likely that they are one and the same person, and the renter has been less than completely honest. This is perhaps not surprising given that the II account in question is "naughty."

I also suspect that the renter has done this before, counting on the fact that the average timeshare owner knows a lot less about how all this works than the OP does.