Voluntary To Mandatory

Have you ever heard of a case where Starwood would change a voluntary resort into a mandatory resort. Say the resort upgraded and made vast improvements........do you think they would ever make the change?

That has happened recently with some phases of SVR, and Villas of Cave Creek, but it wasn't the whole resort. Instead they offered individual owners, who had purchased before a specific date, the chance to join the SVN.

They probably cannot convert an entire resort to being mandatory, because they can't force ALL owners at a resort into the SVN, since there is a fee of about $100 per year involved, and it changes the terms of ownership under which they originally purchased.

The pros and cons of this offer have been debated quite a bit here. The 2 main negatives are:

1) If your week becomes mandatory then Starwood will have the right to choose the week you deposit with II, and this may damage your trading power.

2) The Staroptions that are attached to these new mandatory weeks are low, compared to the top resorts, and that limits your exchange options in the SVN.

I don't believe they became mandatory resorts or sections of resorts, they just became optional. I do not believe they would transfer network access with resale. That would be the difference. Also, not all owners did take them up on the offer so not the whole section has converted.

We (as a group) have advised many, especially Orlando owners, not to convert because of the limited SO they would receive.

I think that the fact that none of the new resorts or phases are mandatory would argue that they would not convert anything else to mandatory.

Correct - they offered individual owners, in some phases, the chance to join the SVN.

I do not believe they can legally convert a whole resort to being mandatory.

Starwood has stated that they will not build any more mandatory resorts.

Did a Starwood 'update' with Denis (yes, one 'n') in Maui last week. My constant gripe here on TUG was presented re Westin Mission Hills being designated voluntary after we signed the contract and how it deflated its value. His reply was at Westin's discretion, a new resale owner (non-relative) at WMH could 'possibly' buy into the SVN and use their resorts like new owners. He showed me Maui's typed form which verified what he was saying.

Cathy - Maybe you missed it, but Tugger James1975NY, who was a Starwood employee, has posted that WMH always was a voluntary resort and there was never a change made to that designation. I will find the post.

Here you go: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=719004&postcount=5

Now you may not have KNOWN this when you bought, but that's not the same thing as it being changed after you bought. I doubt if sales people tell new owners are WPORV or Lagunamar that they are buying at a voluntary resort, either.

DeniseM said:

Cathy - Maybe you missed it, but Tugger James1975NY, who was a Starwood employee, has posted that WMH always was a voluntary resort and there was never a change made to that designation. I will find the post.

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Voluntary from day 1. Guarantee it.

denisem: Nowhere in our sales documents do I find that mentioned. I'll email him for a Page No. reference. Remember we bought when there was just dirt -- no buildings.

When I bought from the developer at WKORVN two years ago, there was no mention of Mandatory or Voluntary resorts. In fact, I never heard about it before I joined TUG this year.

I don't think you will see that kind of information on the deed. There is nothing like that on mine. Rather, I think you will have to look in the articles of condominium or associations (Owner's Handbook). In mine, a mandatory resort, I remember it saying that all owners are members of SVN. There is no mention about resale in that clause, so no mention of losing that membership.

The clauses about membership in SPG and points conversion do have some wording about these not necessarily transferring on resale. So check your ownership documentation.

Greg

Cathyb said:

denisem: Nowhere in our sales documents do I find that mentioned. I'll email him for a Page No. reference. Remember we bought when there was just dirt -- no buildings.

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I doubt you'll find anything. You're trying to prove a negative. It's not a question of voluntary resorts (WMH being one) having a statement that says resales won't be in SVN; rather, mandatory resorts have a statement saying that resales are required to be in SVN.

You may want to review this earlier TUG thread--particularly FredM's post (#7):

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62826

Glorian

Cathyb said:

His reply was at Westin's discretion, a new resale owner (non-relative) at WMH could 'possibly' buy into the SVN and use their resorts like new owners. He showed me Maui's typed form which verified what he was saying.

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That's very interesting. I wonder if Westin has ever exercised this option for a resale owner. I kind of doubt it.

Cathyb said:

denisem: Nowhere in our sales documents do I find that mentioned.

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Exactly - they didn't tell you. A sales person is not going to point out a negative that might stand in the way of the sale. As I said, I'm sure they are not telling buyers this at any of the voluntary resorts, including the new ones.

Well they sort of told me when I bought. They told me that if I bought resale, I would not get the SPG membership and the bonus points. From that, I can infer that if I sell my week resale, the person buying it would not get membership in SPG.

Now I don't remember them saying anything about the SVN membership. But since I bought in a Mandatory resort, there really isn't much to say. But I would guess if you asked the sales person, "Why should I buy from you instead of resale?" they would tell you that if you purchase resale, you will neither SVN nor SPG membership. I just depends on the context of what you ask.

As to the reason there are M and V resorts, I expect that Starwood would prefer that all resorts be V. A V resort means there is more value to purchasing from the developer; SVN and SPG membership. With an M resort, the sales person loses 1/2 of that extra value for purchasing from the developer. That makes it harder for sale people to sell M resorts.

As an aside, I wonder if the M resorts offered more bonus SPG points than V resorts to make up for this difference?

Greg

DeniseM said:

Exactly - they didn't tell you. A sales person is not going to point out a negative that might stand in the way of the sale. As I said, I'm sure they are not telling buyers this at any of the voluntary resorts, including the new ones.

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